SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Checking in: how are you doing today?

Blue,

I’ve been thinking about that point a lot. I’ve been married two decades pretty much and as I’ve dug in, I have discovered WW has a type. I do firmly believe this is her full on affair that crossed PA, but I am also sure she has had at the lest inappropriate relationships with men who are similar to AP. Would I call them EAs? Not sure, but definitely lines bring crossed that married woman should not. This affair didn’t come from nowhere. These guys all have similar issues, Drug uses, DV, and a slew of similar issues. She has admitted that she was wrong and has cut these people out of her life, but it does make me extremely nervous about her choices if we were to D.

IH,

Thanks for checking in. I’m doing ok. I’ve gone low contact with my W because there is a lot more that has come out that I don’t have the strength to disclose right now. Fortunately it seems only my son was the target (which is an awful thing to say) but now all of my kids have been asking questions and have opened up a lot more about what they saw and heard when the affair happened at my house. I am still reeling from the fact that I was taken advantage of by both AP and WW so they could play while I was gone working my ass off to support my family. My kids also feel betrayed by AP as they should but damn that is just another gut punch to add to everything.

I just want to cry for you. And then punch something. I again just reiterate the advice to leave your wife unaddressed for now, that all your energies need to be reserved for your kids and yourself, and that goes for as long as you need it to. You are sufficient for the moment, you will meet this and conquer it. Just take it one step at a time.

Edit to add: my personal recommendation is to keep any discussion of the A with the kids age appropriate and be conservative because you can’t unring the bell. Obviously your situation is all sorts of fucked up and I’m guessing your kids know more than you wish they did. But as someone who came from parents who learned to openly hate each other, just make sure your kids needs are addressed.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:46 PM, Saturday, February 17th]

Sorry, my thoughts are staying with you, and particularly with your kids. I probably don’t have to say this, but it’s so important that I’m going to anyway:

Don’t disparage your wife to your kids.

It’s totally understandable that you would want to and then stand there as the good parent. But you’d be USING your kids as weapons to hurt your wife. Ask me how I know. My mom was a master at this, both subtle and in your face. Don’t do it. Your kids will benefit from having as much positive regard for their mother as can be salvaged in this dumpster fire.

Best wishes and prayers.

IH,

I appreciate the concern. I have never disparaged my WW to my kids, nor would i. Truthfully, even during the A and at the lowest of my lows I made sure that I only said good things about WW and tried my best to shield them from the disaster that was engulfing our family. I absolutely agree that it is using them as weapons and that’s not fair to them at all. I am going to hold her accountable and she has to be the one to answer for the damage caused. That being said, I will never put my kids in a position where they feel they have to choose. I am pretty sure that I have only just opened the pandora box and a lot more is going to come out, but I will never jeopardize their relationship with their mom.

I am doing my best to keep it age appropriate, I haven’t discussed anything with them that they haven’t asked. It’s like I said, a Pandora’s box has been opened and now everything is slowly creeping out, and from what I can tell at the moment, most of the blame is at AP and they haven’t fully understood all that has happened. I’m pretty sure my son does, and it definitely fits because he was targeted. One day at a time, and letting him go at his own pace with
.

HINHF,

Feeling for you and your family today. Please be sure to add the info you've learned with your children's IC. Even without knowing about the A, they've probably figured enough out to know some of what is going on. Your son will also feel betrayed by your WW for not keeping him safe, or for allowing POSOM in the house.

Have you read Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass? She has a questionnaire that helps you evaluate whether something is an EA. You might find it helpful.

These guys all have similar issues, Drug uses, DV, and a slew of similar issues

This is scary, and really doesn't bode well if she doesn't do some work to be a better person.

I'm so sorry that the OBS didn't tell you. It's so important so that you have all of the information you need to make an informed decision on your life choices.

Glad you're such an involved dad and support you children.

@HellIsNotHalfFull

First, I'm deeply sorry that your son suffered this due to his mother's failure to protect him.

I believe redlines that once crossed cannot be uncrossed, harming or allowing and harm to my children is one such line. I would never believe for a moment that your WW did not know of at least a hostile dynamic between this interloper and your son. She made a choice, that choice or perhaps many choices were not on the side of your son.

I'm sorry, I do not see how such a woman could be redeemed. Nor do I see why her feelings even matter at this point.

These guys all have similar issues, Drug uses, DV, and a slew of similar issues. She has admitted that she was wrong and has cut these people out of her life, but it does make me extremely nervous about her choices if we were to D.

Who cares if she admits she was wrong, doesn't matter in the end. Harm was caused, her words mean so little in the world of your son that even the energy of the breath was wasted in contrast.

As I was writing this, I realized that the only fear I seem to have left is for the well being of my kids (and they are on their own today....well reasonably so anyway).

Please protect him (report it, counselors, even police), I cannot imagine how unsafe he feels around her.

[This message edited by hardyfool at 10:07 PM, Saturday, February 17th]

I am curious as to why so many people are questioning WWs knowledge of what happened to our son. I don’t have any evidence of her knowing, and I actually believe she could have been so blind. I’m not giving her a pass at all, but I know a lot more about AP, and he is an incredible liar and all around POS.

My son and I are extremely close, and I know he has absolute trust in me, as clearly demonstrated that he was able to open up about what happened to him. I know he adores his mom as well, and I have made sure to encourage it and I always highlight all of the great things she does for him and all of our kids. From what I can gather, and I know there is more coming, all of the kids trusted AP (I am so sick over this but it is what it is), and now that the truth is coming out they are connecting dots. There has been a lot more that my daughters have talked about with me and their therapist (no AP didn’t hurt them thankfully), that is bringing a lot more clarity.

I suspect my son has connected the dots and knows way more, and while my girls were too young to truly understand, they have told me they know more too and will also connect the dots soon enough. He didn’t confide with WW because he trusted her, he was confused about what was going on, and again I wasn’t home. He also didn’t want to betray me or tell me anything that might cause D. The poor kid, what an awful burden for him to bear.

Hardly fool,

Unfortunately this is just one more redline in a long series of redlines that I am still working on. So much more happened that I feel very strongly most sane people would not even consider R, at least based on everyone else’s perspective from what I have read here. I know I’m not alone, but I seem to be one of the more rare cases of AP replacing me without an exit affair.

Yours is probably the only situation where I’m inclined to say make the best of it and eat the shit sandwich for as long as you need to in order to keep your children safe.

There’s always a chance your WW could leave you, but that doesn’t seem likely, given that she’s dependent on you for support. The chances that the scumbags and losers she likes so much will be willing and/or able to subsidize her are slim.

After all, OM himself was a leech. As for OBS, its likely she and/or her kids are a victim of OM’s abuse, too. She may have stayed silent out of fear of OM. But of course your anger at her is justified.

If remaining married to your wife is intolerable and the environment in your home so toxic that staying together is causing your kids more harm than good, then rolling the dice with divorce might be in their best interest. But if peace and civility are possible— even in lieu of genuine reconciliation— keeping your kids under one roof and your watchful eye might be your best bet.

Another benefit of waiting until they’re 18, or at an age when they can choose with which parent they want to live with full time, is that you could be spared paying out tons of child support, even if you’re still on the hook for alimony.

It's one thing to not trash talk your wife, I get that. But your son may have feelings of anger at your WW that he's not sharing because you may appear as her cheerleader and biggest fan to him. (Not saying you are, but if you're going out of your way to say nice things than you kind of are)

All of your kids may have feelings of anger and confusion towards your wife. Again I'm not saying trash talk her, but they do deserve the age appropriate truth. Don't let them believe that what she did was okay. It wasn't okay in their little kid world and you certainly don't want them to believe it's okay in an adult world.

HellIsNotHalfFull,

Praying for you and your children. I've read some outrageous stories here but this one got to my nerves. If anyone, let alone my cheating spouse's AP, had laid hands on my child, I'd be in prison right now. You are a great man for keeping your cool. Focus on securing your son right now. Dealing with the AP and WW can wait.

Ragn,

Thank you. Trust me, I am keeping my self even keeled but what I want to do in regards to AP would put me jail for life. However I am the provider and I have to take care of my kids, at least I have a place like this forum where I can get my feelings out. I have taken appropriate legal action, whatever comes out of it is to be seen.

Nom,

I hear what you are saying, and maybe I am her cheerleader, but what am I supposed to do with trying to rebuild? The kids deserve to not feel like they have to choose a side, and that is my goal. I am sure that more will come out and I will again hold my WW accountable and she has to answer for it. She has to rebuild trust not only with me but with our kids, I will not punish them and make them feel guilty because they love her too. Yes I know this is a disaster, but she is a fantastic mom (yes I know the A would prove that wrong I’m not stupid, but she still is).

I hear what you are saying, and maybe I am her cheerleader, but what am I supposed to do with trying to rebuild?

Do they have the opportunity for IC? 5 kids is a lot to manage, both logistically and financially, but it may well be the an excellent investment as this gets sorted out. YOU should not be putting more negativity about their mother into their hearts, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t some there already from what has happened. Giving them a neutral safe place to express and explore that may be the best you can do.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 2:50 PM, Sunday, February 18th]

IH,

Sorry, I probably didn’t make it clear. My three oldest are in therapy. The other two are too young to really know what is going on. I don’t mean this as a brag or anything, I do very well and have a fantastic insurance. Again it’s part of the hell im dealing with. WW is a SAHM, and she could never get a job where she could support all of our kids, at least not with the lifestyle I want for them. I have worked my ass off to make sure my family was taken care of. I know this probably sounds like I’m a villain from a 1980s movie, but it’s something that is important to me. No of course it isn’t everything, their mental well being matters more than anything else, but I have worked very hard to make sure my family was taken care of.

Also, you get to choose how to interpret this event and how it impacts your journey out of infidelity. This really fucking sucks, and you get full decision rights on whether it is a deal breaker. When I was new, ThisIsFine threw out the concept of "integrity adjacent" that gave me a category of where to put the seemingly unacceptable that I thought I might want to learn to accept. Nobody wants you to be afraid or delusional, and you are not weak if you forgive and R. It’s your journey, I’m honored you are sharing it with us.

HINHF, I think it is likely that WW did not directly know what was happening with your son.

However, I do think she must have seen your son's discomfort and irregular feelings/behavior to some degree and she either ignored it or failed to investigate because she knew it could be related to her precious fantasy betrayal. An attentive Mom sees when something is wrong. For me, this lack of attentiveness or ignoring subtle signs because her fantasy bubble might pop puts a major dent in your continued belief that she is a great Mom. She may be great now, she wasn't then.

Still, such a betrayal to bring AP in the home like this. Having sex in the marital bed is enough for some people to immediately choose D. Bringing and keeping AP there for months? My heart goes out to you. Were they in the A before he moved in?

But I agree with others that adding D right now to your son's healing might really delay it. As far as future risk from WW picking a dangerous bf, has she learned from this in your mind? Is your thinking that this type of guy is "her type" mean she would choose another if you D?

TRDD,

I, unfortunately think you hit the nail on the head. I do in fact know my son was behaving oddly and way out of character for him when all of this was going on. I at the time just thought it was because I was gone again for work and he was upset. Knowing what I know now it’s obvious. Yes my WW absolutely knew something was off, and I do completely agree that she didn’t want to pop the bubble. In fact I know that is true because of what happened after I came home, discovered something was way wrong (dday1), and she continued her A behind my back for 6 months.

I don’t know if they defiled my martial bed, she denies it and said everything happened in our guest room, again unfortunately more stuff is coming up that makes me suspect it happened at least once but it doesn’t matter really. It happened in my house. She and AP had dinner with my kids, played house, pretended everything was fine and then of course the unspeakable.

Yes, they were absolutely in the A before he moved in. Again, chump that I am, I had complete trust in my wife, an AP wasn’t a stranger, he was pretending to be a friend and I knew him. I figured it would help to have an extra set of eyes to help with 5 young kids and i knew he was going through a D. Of course he was getting D because his wife found out he was cheating with my WW. So, it’s ugly.

Hey HNFH, I didn't mean to come off as negative, I think you're dealing with this situation in the absolute best way you can. I can't even imagine how difficult this all is for you.

I more meant that letting your son know that it is okay to be mad at mom, or not trust mom, because of what she did, that if he has those feelings about her they are okay feelings to have because what she did was wrong, not that she is some evil person that you're talking smack about, just that his feelings are justified, if that makes more sense.

She vehemently denies any knowledge of it

I am having terrible difficulty with her denial. Her creditability is really low from my perspective.

Have you asked your son if he told mom about it? Did he think mom knew about it? Or did mom see it. How many times have I read or seen in the news where some "boyfriend", "stepdad" or the infamous "fiancé" has beaten or worse some child and the mother either knew about it, or chose not to believe.

This needs a very in depth look, and a document trail of some kind should you need to divorce this woman to deal with the custody issue.

"I more meant that letting your son know that it is okay to be mad at mom, or not trust mom, because of what she did, that if he has those feelings about her they are okay feelings to have because what she did was wrong, not that she is some evil person that you're talking smack about, just that his feelings are justified, if that makes more sense."

I'd like to co-sign this.

I have no idea where your son is at developmentally or emotionally. But he should know that it's ok to be angry with people WHOM YOU LOVE. Anger doesn't mean you don't love someone. It's also ok to be hurt, disappointed or whatever else he is feeling towards his mom. Authentic relationships have room for these emotions and healthy relationships allow for those feelings to be shared, heard and then healed.

I think kids (and some adults frankly) think it's a zero sum game: if i express anger mommy won't think I love her. Or worse, if I express my feelings, mommy won't love me anymore.

Both of those thoughts need to be disproved (if he's having them). He will know he is loved when he can express himself freely and is met with support and - on your wife's part anyway - repair.

Wishing you continued strength.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 8:54 PM, Sunday, February 18th]