SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don’t have a crystal ball or read chicken-innards to predict how things go.
I’m a big believer in statistics, and the (informal) stats I have gathered on how things go in infidelity strongly indicate that an OM of the type your friends wife selected wouldn’t really want a long-term commitment with a married woman.
There has been a long ongoing thread in General about affair fog… THIS case here might be a very clear demonstration on what affair fog is:
I am guessing (again – based on experience and not Tarot cards og goats blood) that the wife has this vision of riding away to exotic holiday-destinations with this handsome gray fox, who also happens to be a great step-dad who takes her and the kids to Disney and gets them into the best Ivy-League schools. All this done while she’s financially independent because she got half the house, half the assets and all that at a rate she has greatly overvalued. That the moment junior comes home from the last day of school she and the doctor will sit the husband down and explain how it’s all his fault and he will be so compliant and accept his fate.
THAT is the fog. The affair – the infidelity – is real, but how she sees it and its consequences is totally through a lens clogged with fog.

Ragn3rK1n – If BH is having family over to support him and if there is a chance of knowledge of the affair spreading it’s IMPERATIVE he ensures he has legal-level proof of the affair.
Based on your last post he might have it, but a friend seeing them hold hands might not cut it, nor a 200 dollar gift-card or whatever. You need evidence to the level that a potential divorce attorney says it’s usable.

For your friend – if this ends in divorce – it can possibly mean the difference between negotiating a divorce from a position of power (like, she accepts a slightly higher portion of the family home, but he keeps all his savings, 401k and/or ROTH) and even possibly avoiding supporting her lifestyle over the next years.
For your friend – if there is a wish to reconcile – the realistic possibility that OM might find himself on official court-documents as the OM in her affair – might be the reason he decides to dump her in very clear and unromantic ways:
"Darling – in another world our love would be eternal, but in this existence your children need you more than I do. Alas – we must part, but maybe I can call you in 18 months for a quick oral copulation"
Is a lot softer than a direct:
"Get away from me you crazy woman. All you were was an available lay, and now your husband is threatening my reputation".

What I wouldn't have given if one of my WH's coworkers had sent me a message, a text, a phone call... photos of him and Holier-than-thou Christian homewrecker. Err, I mean, his ex-coworker who was the Just Friends he went to countless dinners, movies, ballgames, etc. with and whom he lied about meeting up with, and called the moment his ass got into the rental car on his out of town trips to the corporate office.

Instead, I see myself (wrongly, but I still do), as the chump. Everyone had to know, and yet not ONE person ponied up and said, "Gee, she should know that he's been carrying on with R for YEARS now."

Like others, I do wonder if your wife knew but kept silent. Maybe she was protecting her friend, maybe she felt it would be too triggering to talk to you. Texts can be deleted, even just parts.

Anyway, I would NOT tell your wife, BUT I would come home one day, get your wife out to dinner. Tell your friend to join you. Then tell him. Watch your wife's reaction. If she passes, apologize for not letting her in on the plan, but that you now trust her. Tell her to leave her purse and phone if she suddenly runs for the bathroom. See how that goes.

Or, if that's too much, just gather what you have, call him, and ask him out. Don't tell your wife. Tell him NOT to mention it to his WS. Then, spill everything.

But he deserves to know. How cruel it is that everyone knows and no one tells sort of thing. Please don't do that to someone else. Put yourself in his shoes. He's been a good father and husband. It's not like he beats the dog or his wife or has cheated, and this is a mad hatter situation. He's blindsided and hurt. You remember that. He's going to be at a serious disadvantage. He doesn't deserve that.

It's going to suck but do the right thing.

P.S. I love @Bigger 's take on this. The narrative cracked me up.

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 6:26 PM, Friday, January 26th]

Advise the BH to expose the OM to everyone in the world.

Alternately BH should blackmail the OM, but as a public service to humanity just expose him.

Since the OM is a serial cheater, and from your description a narcissist or psychopath, this affair even if it becomes a marriage will lead to misery for the OW.

Update - My wife and I had a chance to catch up with H after dropping off our respective DDs for their dance lessons. H was extremely apologetic to my wife. She said she was glad he did so. After that awkwardness, my wife told H everything N shared with her.

H said he has retained a tough as nails lawyer that went to the same Ivy League law school as his sister, who's a big shot lawyer working for a top White Shoe law firm in DC. H also said that he hired a PI, an ex-cop and has the goods on the affair. He said his PI also uncovered two other previous affairs involving the Doc (OM). These were recent i.e ended just months before N's cheating. The PI believes that the Doc has had several more affairs in the past and from his experience, the Doc is not the type to go legit with any of his APs. Hit it and quit it, was his exact phrase. H believes that either the affair has gone underground or the OM has dumped N. H told me he is definitely going to file for D and only confront N after she is served. He said that based on how N reacts, he will decide further steps. He said he was sorry that me and my wife were pulled into this mess and requested us to keep all of this in confidence, which we agreed to without hesitation. H said that he hoped that our respective DDs' friendship stays intact regardless of what happens with his marriage.

So Bigger, you were so on the money. The Doc sadly appears to be a serial cheater and womanizer, always looking for the next conquest. Disappointed but not surprised.

We felt that H has been able to get back his bearings after the shock of the discovery. It's good that he has both the resources and family support to navigate the mess his wife created. My wife and I agreed that we'll steer clear of this as much as possible going forward.

Filing for D and then confronting changes so much of the dynamic. I hope it goes well for him.

That's a great update, you are a true friend. Same for your W, she did the right thing. After my W and I have been through infidelity hell and back, I know how much she hates infidelity and she has confronted a couple of friends that were standing at the top of the slippery slope.

Sorry you had to pulled into it, but thankfully it was has handle correctly.

Why is the PI investigating OM background? Is your friend paying him $$$ per hour for irrelevant work?
The only thing relevant to the possible divorce is if the wife is having an affair. If the OM has had one, two or a thousand affairs isn’t an issue at all.
Like – your friend won’t pay lower alimony if his wife’s lover had one or three affairs. Nor would he pay lower alimony if OM is rich or whatever. If infidelity impacts D (and you say it does in your area) then HER infidelity will impact D – not the OM.

I fear your friend is falling into the trap of thinking that if he can prove to his wife that OM is a dog, if he can prove OM is having an affair and if he can prove his wife is having an affair, plus he hires a cutthroat lawyer then – in a week or so – his wife will be on the street desolate begging for another chance, OM will have lost his license and tarred-and-feathered out of town and the friend will be sitting alone with all the power – allowing his wife back if she grovels and accepts a short leash.
We see this all the time here… That is – we see that dream, but seldom (if ever) the reality.

Tell your friend that proof of the affair can help with getting a better divorce settlement. BETTER – but not a one-sided wipe-out.
Tell him to be realistic.

Bigger

I asked H why he hired the PI. His primary task was to confirm whether or not his wife was having an affair, if so who the AP is, how long has this been going on and document all of the above. The secondary task was to establish whether the Doc was really planning to go-legit with N. The secondary task was when the PI found out about the Doc's other affairs. Reading between the lines, I don't think H is going to go after the Doc. He wasn't sure if the Doc was going to bankroll his WW. But that seems to be out of the picture now. The doc is super wealthy, close to retiring and he was already likely to move on to his next fling. Also I don't think H wants to go scorched earth with N. He was laser focused on the kids and knows that for their sake he and N need to be on good enough terms to coparent them. I could turn out to be wrong but this was my sense.

Per original post...

... at least a couple of occasions N said she was grabbing lunch with my wife as an alibi for her rendezvous with Doc. He shared the two dates... I looked at my Ring doorbell camera events for the two dates in question. My wife works from home and she didn't leave the house on one of the dates.

I understand I'm new here, still learning, and maybe I have misread/misunderstood, but the logic above is confusing. Does the lunch alibi require your W to actually leave the home so N can have her afternoon tryst? Or does the alibi only require your W to just lie, eg confirm N's story that they had lunch at "X" at "Y-time" and left around "Z" if anyone asked her?

I am genuinely curious... nothing more.

[This message edited by Apollos at 1:42 PM, Monday, January 29th]

Apollos

There is a go-to mall outdoor food court near my house that's a popular lunch joint. It also happens to be 5 mins from OM's house. When H first contacted me, he said that N's alibi was that she had a monthly catch-up lunch with my wife at that place. All lies, of course. I don't think N was trying to concoct an iron clad alibi. She likely gave a plausible sounding excuse thinking that H won't probe further. But when H started sniffing around, she probably panicked and called my wife to see if she could sweet talk into lying for her. N is the type of person who thinks they can persuade anyone to do anything they ask them to.

On my side, when H blindsided me with the "I think your wife is covering for N's affair," it brought back all sorts of bad memories. I was 99% sure that my wife wouldn't have done anything like this, but having the Ring video helped confirm that.

Sorry I was trying to minimize including details that might be identifiable.

PS: To her credit, my wife wasn't offended when I told her I looked up the Ring footage first.

[This message edited by Ragn3rK1n at 2:19 PM, Monday, January 29th]

Thanks for the reply and your patience with the question. Of course, the other obvious scenario was N lied about the lunch date while not involving your W in the lie; logical especially if N wanted to keep the affair under wraps.

Apollos

My wife and N weren't even close friends. I'm convinced that the only reason N implicated my wife was that we live on the route from her place to OM's area. So "I'm having a catch-up lunch with her" is a facially believable alibi that would give N a plausible reason to come over to this side of town. I'm sure she never expected H would ever probe further.

Bumped by request

He continues to comment on SI. Would love to know the outcome of the Doc and N.

Wrong thread, sorry

[This message edited by straightup at 10:03 AM, Tuesday, June 11th]

Consider that if your wife is willing to cover up for a friend, then she is probably just as willing to step outside of your relationship. I hate the term Sistas, but its a fact that Girl Gangs talk, just like bros about life and then surround each other to support each other’s indiscretions and lies. I saw it in my own marriage where the wife came back from a banging holiday and bragged to her girlfriends. I found out much later through a mate whose wife became disgusted at the conduct of their circle of friends and informed him to tell me. I already knew she had an affair, just didn't know what level of Wh0redom she would stoop to whilst away from me and our children.
I’m not saying your wife is cheating, just if her moral compass is thus aligned to cover for a cheater, how likely is she to have learned the lessons from the friend and be instructed on what not to do.
Take it from someone whose wife became a serial chaeater, they share, swap and learn these skills.

Oh and I am also the asshole who rolls over on my mates if they talk about affairs, not only because it angers me but I feel for those cheated upon as victims.

Posting after a long time due to family health issues, which thankfully are getting better now.

The update here is not good.

The couple dropped off the face of the earth earlier this year. Then out of the blue, my wife told me a couple of months ago that N was no longer showing up at their employer's email/Teams directory. I mentioned earlier that their daughter dropped out of the dance class that my kid also attends. I didn't reach out to H because he last told me he'd appreciate some privacy. A bit later, the dance studio had their end of school year recital/honors thing, where some of the moms were gossiping about the couple. Apparently the wife, N, was booked for DUI near their school, after she rammed into a STOP sign. Sadly the mugshot is online. Soon afterwards, H, the husband, reached out to me. Over coffee, he said that when he asked N to agree to a separation agreement, she had a breakdown and threatened self-harm. There was some kind of incident at work, but her boss felt pity and gave her a package to walk away quietly. The DUI happened shortly afterwards. H said that he has paused the divorce process for now but has already begun moving the family to where his parents live, a few states away. H said that his in-laws came in to persuade N to get mental health treatment. H was apprehensive about their kids but said that they understand that "mom is unwell and needs a break" or something to that effect.

As far as the OM goes, he is still around, like all old rich POS types.

Bigger, you saw this coming. It is so tragic when people believe in what amount to the tooth fairy. Her fog lifted and there was reality.
Ragn, I hope your friend finds peace.

Ragn,
Thanks for the update. Both tragic and predictable. You and your wife should take some comfort in being voices of experience in supporting the couple. Hopefully N is able to get back to a healthy place and that H continues on his path to get out of infidelity...And that the POS suffers from some well-earned karma.