SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am separated from exWS for around a month, and currently don't have intentions of going back. So this post is for me, my healing and peace of mind. I am at a stage now where that's all I want now, as I have let go of any expectation he has what it takes to fix what he broke. I am processing everything right now, which for me involves understanding why I feel like I do, and being able to acknowledge it, give myself the empathy and validation I feel I have been denied, and then pack it away.

I moved a couple of hundred miles from WS, and I got my dream house. I have financial troubles now, as coping on my own is hard and was completely unexpected in this juncture in life - but also because my affair trauma meant I lost my job a couple of years ago and couldn't work for a while as I wasn't well enough. It turned my life upside down, but I feel a growing sense of acceptance and hope for healing.

I have been through three years of false R.

The first year of that was repeated DDays and lots of breaking NC with the AP. That all stopped eventually but three years on, I think only 50% of the "this is what I need from you for reconciliation" list was ever done. No tangible work has been done really of any kind by WS.

Yes, he would sit for hours, even weeks listening to me cry and apologising. There was lots of guilt and "I love yous", but no accountability, no real "whys", no counselling, not even really thinking about it so he could offer empathy. He just avoided.

I don't think my WS is a bad person. I believe he loves me. I think he was just not capable of R, so I feel very sad about where we ended up. It's hurt us both, and I don't want to be angry or resentful towards someone I love so much. Whatever he has done, he will always be someone I deeply love and I am genuinely just sorry his decisions led him where we got to.

I am not an angry person.

Despite the affair, my anger did not actually even appear until about 4 months in when he kept breaking NC and not doing the work. Patience and kindness turned into boiled up anger and rage and exploded. Since then, I have been a pretty great spouse I think.

I think I spent my time reading on SI, reading books, watching videos. Trying to do "the work" alone and trying and failing to engage him in it. I think I gave love, kindness and patience and I think - sadly - I put him first.

I kept saying to myself "maybe next week once he has finished this project, it will be the right time", but the right time never came. So there has always been a lot of anger beneath the surface and there have been some explosions of it. 99% of the time I was kind and nice and 1% of the time I would just explode.

No way to live, huh?

The salve of course, to that anger would have been for him to have called a counsellor, done the work, written a timeline for me, apologised in a meaningful way and properly engaged me. During and after every explosion, I told him exactly that. I literally said "if you want to help me and us, do THIS".

He ignored me. Instead he says it made him scared to talk to me. So he didn't and we didn't talk about it at all anymore. I continued to be angry and sad, he blamed me. He didn't outright blame me, but if we had an argument, he would immediately go to "but you hurt me too!!!" and start telling me I wasn't meeting his needs.

So many times he told me that he loved me, but that HE needed calm and stability, and if I could provide it to him - with no fights, then and only then could he feel safe with me and not blamed or criticised or like I was going to shout or get upset that he would have been able to "do the work".

Now, I was offering counselling, so if he felt we didn't have a "safe space" for difficult conversation, that was an option for him. But also I feel gaslit by this, because I know that I am not an angry person and the anger was created by him not doing the work. So what was going on here was both gaslighting and victim / perpetrator reversal.

But in the broader picture - I have absolutely no idea how he felt entitled to or believed on any level, that I could or needed to provide my unfaithful spouse who wasn't engaging with R in any way, with "peace and stability". But the level of entitlement he felt and feels for this is staggering. Almost every request or conversation about meeting my needs would always end up with him saying "but you need to meet mine too and I have told you a hundred times that I need peace and stability! I need it! Meeeeeee".

And that would be it. That would always be what completely snapped me, and this calm, patient, positive, gentle person would turn into a monster. The rage I would feel would sometimes make my chest hurt. I never hit him, but I wanted to! I have never ever ever felt rage through any of this like I did when he would try and turn this around and say I wasn't meeting his needs, needs for HIM to feel calm and stable, when he was not only the one who ripped those things away - but he was also the one who acted as a barrier to the most basic steps to achieve them.

Can anyone empathise with that or explain to me this, more than the lies or deception or betrayal made me so angry? Why was that? Everything else I could seemingly deal with calmly, but not that. And when he said that it changed how I felt about him.

I think because I would look at him and see the same selfish ass who felt entitled to an affair in the first place. The same clueless man child that wasn't able to accept consequences for his choices - even if those consequences had basically destroyed my wellbeing and well - my life if I am honest.

So that was why I left.

As I said, I left a while ago, and has been trying to get me to go back. This week he probably realised I wasn't coming back and he finally invested in some of the R work I needed three years ago. I finally got a timeline, and for him to actually look at it and imagine how I felt and talk to me about it and offer empathy and remorse that sounded like real remorse instead of self flagellation. He was finally digging into his "Whys" and having the tough conversations with himself.

Off the back off that we were able to have a conversation yesterday by phone that was so cathartic for me. Three years late, yes, but I got at least one of the conversations I needed. No self defensiveness. No blame shifting. No minimising. No rug sweeping. I was seen and heard and listened to and got answers which (had I had three years ago) would have saved me so much pain and confusion.

I sent him a nice message that evening thanking him for that.

Then woke up this morning to messages from him which said

"these conversations are only really possible when I don't feel frightened and feel like you are listening. So often I have felt dismissed, criticised and blamed. When what I actually needed - in order to give you the answers you need - is for you to listen and to accept and to maybe understand :(But you said I didn't deserve any of that and that only your thoughts feelings and needs mattered".

Then tried to kind of blame me for a "meltdown" I had had about two years ago when OW had showed up in town.

I instantly felt rage. Because honestly, everything in that message is a lie. Pretty much nothing but his thoughts, feelings and needs have ever mattered (which is the whole problem and why I feel so angry to begin with) and he's implying that I need to behave myself and meet his needs in order to somehow deserve the work of R.

Then I guess he is blaming me for having a meltdown / trigger over OW being in town, when he's a person who took a YEAR to stop breaking NC.

I just sat there and felt disgust, rage, almost hate for him.

And I love this person, and I want to leave peacefully with love. So I'd really like to know and discuss why that particular behavior above all others turned out to be the dealbreaker for me? Why has it caused me so much rage?

I had to take the day off work today because it made me so angry my pulse was off the scale and my chest hurt :(

I think it is a self-protective mechanism with a WS that blameshifts. My XWS did this too. Anytime I brought up something about the A or got triggered an angry it would go back to him telling me that I am never going to get over it and that my rages push him away.

Do you think your exWS might have Narcissistic tendencies? It sure sounds like it with the entitlement and always having to shift some of the blame back to you.

I too have never felt the kind of rage I felt towards my xWS. his lack of empathy for me and blameshifting sent me through the roof. I eventually started to hate him, still do. Now my xWS blames me for giving up on the M and that I gave up on our family. He thinks I am a bad person

Wow. Very sorry that you are having to deal with this. In your other thread I posted, it seems like your WH only started trying to do the real work to try and win you back and man...I think I nailed it, he isn't in it for the right reasons, he is doing it for himself alone.

"these conversations are only really possible when I don't feel frightened and feel like you are listening. So often I have felt dismissed, criticised and blamed. When what I actually needed - in order to give you the answers you need - is for you to listen and to accept and to maybe understand :(But you said I didn't deserve any of that and that only your thoughts feelings and needs mattered".

Translation: It was YOUR fault that I cheated and it was YOUR fault that I didn't get my shit together in order to save us. I cannot admit when I am wrong. I take responsibility for nothing and I probably never will.

I'm sorry MCC. You put so much into this relationship and were even willing to show him grace that he absolutely didn't deserve and yet, he cannot even own his own shit. He has felt entitled to slow walk even the bare minimum, and now that you've seen his manipulation attempts for what they are, they are impossible to ignore. He continues to tell you who he is, please believe him.

So it sounds like you all understand why this elicits this emotion in me. I really do hate being angry :(

I really do hate being angry

Then I suspect your best bet is to disengage entirely, or as much as possible until the divorce is final. As you've said, you have no intention of going back. Stop taking his phone calls, stop entertaining his "too little, too late" efforts. Focus your efforts on yourself and a future where you don't have to drag around an unremorseful man child.

I totally get it. My WH did this a lot, especially in the early months (we're at 10 months after dday1). The whole "I need a safe space" thing from him made me see red, but I just shut my jaw and would go to another room. For me, the problem with this statement was that I never had peace or safety if he was around, but he was too wrapped up in feeling self-pity that he couldn't see it. He also pulled the, "I have needs too" and "Why don't I deserve the benefit of the doubt" sad faces.

I still get very angry when he goes into "poor me" mode. It highlights how entitled and self-centered the WS is when they act like this. They aren't showing empathy or self-awareness about how they're making *us* feel, especially since we're the injured ones. I firmly believe that atonement requires selfless sacrifice, and the kind of behavior you've highlighted show the very opposite. They are prioritizing their needs and comfort over ours.

Ugh. We are currently doing in-house separation, and he has finally acknowledged that he's become the kind of person he used to loathe. He's doing IC and taking the affair recovery course, even though the religious stuff is like nails on a chalkboard. I have lost all feelings of romanic love for him (still care about him in a familial way, esp as a coparent), but he claims he is now happy that I'm willing to be around him at all and will continue to do the work no matter what. Only time will tell if he has the strength to follow through.

Oh my days. He tried to contact me and I explained after today I think we are definitely not R candidates and that I wanted to continue with the split and make it permanent. I got dragged into a conversation where he said he was sorry lots of times, begged. He asked me to summarise what R would look like, what I would need from him in order for us to have a hope.

I responded with this:

It would look like getting this from you:

I see that all of this pain and suffering was completely avoidable and was entirely down to my decisions, both during my A and since. I see that I damaged this person and our relationship and that this person deserves things that I never gave and that is why they have remained so angry. I can see that my behavior is what left them trapped in pain. I understand I created that and only I can resolve it. So whether I am scared or not, I am going to fix it.

I am going to ask her to talk about this. Instead of rug sweeping to avoid uncomfortable feelings, I am going to set aside time every week, and go through it, so she can get what she needs to process what she’s been through. I am going to engage in understanding what she's going through and provide what she needs generously.

I am going to push aside self-defensiveness as it was her who wasn’t protected and this behavior is maladaptive. I understand I need to heal me too and that if I want to stop feeling shame and self-loathing, that this is something only I can do for myself. I know that doing this is the way to get back the version of me that I feel I lost.

He responded with:

"I already f****g KNOW I am a piece of s**t person who f****g ruined everything"

Sigh.

I didn't reply. I can see what I am dealing with is still someone a million miles from being capable of what the successful rebuilders on this site have done.

Cross posted there with you NTFTM. HE has apologised now, but it says a lot that his first reaction to the very basic bare minimum of reconciliation is such rage and self pity :(

I totally get it. My WH did this a lot, especially in the early months (we're at 10 months after dday1). The whole "I need a safe space" thing from him made me see red, but I just shut my jaw and would go to another room. For me, the problem with this statement was that I never had peace or safety if he was around, but he was too wrapped up in feeling self-pity that he couldn't see it. He also pulled the, "I have needs too" and "Why don't I deserve the benefit of the doubt" sad faces.

I still get very angry when he goes into "poor me" mode. It highlights how entitled and self-centered the WS is when they act like this. They aren't showing empathy or self-awareness about how they're making *us* feel, especially since we're the injured ones.

Just thank you for this validation. The validation is soothing for me. I am not sure why specifically this, more than anything makes me see red but it just seems like the most amazing thing in the world that self pity is even on the menu!

I firmly believe that atonement requires selfless sacrifice, and the kind of behavior you've highlighted show the very opposite. They are prioritizing their needs and comfort over ours.

Yes. I think it also requires you to be humble and sit with the uncomfortable feelings. It's probably too hard for him. HE needs my love and approval like oxygen and gets angry if he doesn't have it. No, I don't think he has any NPD characteristics. I think he just doesn't love himself.

Ugh. We are currently doing in-house separation, and he has finally acknowledged that he's become the kind of person he used to loathe. He's doing IC and taking the affair recovery course, even though the religious stuff is like nails on a chalkboard

.

Weirdly, my exWS was averse to all the affair books and resources because they kept going on about religion and he found it like nails on a chalkboard but I am really glad your WS is doing them. Ultimately doing the work is the only way they restore their positive feelings towards themselves.

I have lost all feelings of romanic love for him (still care about him in a familial way, esp as a coparent), but he claims he is now happy that I'm willing to be around him at all and will continue to do the work no matter what. Only time will tell if he has the strength to follow through.

Like every story I read on here, I am sending you my greatest wishes for resolution and healing.

Cross posted there with you NTFTM. HE has apologised now, but it says a lot that his first reaction to the very basic bare minimum of reconciliation is such rage and self pity :(

Wow, that is a rough, and I agree that his response says a lot about his continued entitlement.

I remember in the early months that WS would do the "I'm sorry I'm such a monster" thing, and I would try to make him feel better about himself. Now when he says, "I was an a$$hole," I just say, "Yup, you were" and shrug my shoulders.

Both WS and I are atheists, but I'm hoping he gets more from the AR course than "find Jesus," based on what I saw in their workbook.

MCC, did you say you've been trying R for 3 years? If your WH is still in the defensive/self-pitying mindset, I'm so very sorry. You are a saint! I'm glad you are finding a measure of peace now that you're separated. Staying that way for the time being sounds like the right thing to do.

NoThanksForTheMemories

MCC, did you say you've been trying R for 3 years? If your WH is still in the defensive/self-pitying mindset

that is probably understating - the defensive / self pitying mindset has gotten WORSE. As he witheld from me with the work of R, I got angrier, and with each fight we had, he got more and more defensive and self pitying.

So sorry you are going through this. I can completely empathize. When WS shows any signs of self-pity or anger towards me when discussing his infidelity, I feel an almost blinding pain and shock and it can take me days to work past it. We are only a year into R, so I can only imagine the toll it has taken on you after three years.

I think what it comes down to is a lack of true empathy or accountability. He doesn't want to face your pain because he doesn't want to face the fact that it is his behavior that caused it.

I’m gonna be a quite frank with you, Mint. Your XWS sounds like the biggest example of "it’s not what I did but how you reacted to it" I’ve ever seen. Have you read up on DARVO, because your XWS would be the definition of it.

He’s definitely not a prime candidate for R. Always has to make it about himself. Doing the work for the wrong reasons.

At this point, I hope you’re protecting yourself mentally and emotionally.

Why does it bother you so much (more than other things)? I am completely guessing, but for me, the things that bother or trigger usually replicate old feelings from my childhood that I hated.

Your exWS launches into a "but YOU did this, too!" completely invalidating and ignoring your feelings.

Any chance that someone continually did that to you when you were a young girl? If so, when he does it, you are layering his idiotic and invalidating behavior onto a decades old and deep childhood wound. Like pressing on a bruise, it is extremely painful.

Our MC pointed out that my H's worst reactions (pain) come when he feels shame, and mine come when I feel ignored or invisible. These are old childhood wounds, his family shaming him and mine ignoring me. When he feels shame, he completely shuts down and ignores me. When I feel ignored, I launch an attack on him that brings shame. It's pretty top notch awful stuff when you see us two locked in this duel of pain. Maybe you are your ex have some of that going on? Wish I had a solution for you, but I don't. We do it much less, but it still happens occasionally.

Much luck to you.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:37 PM, Saturday, September 16th]

1) I misunderstood your sitch. Congratulations on leaving and building a good life for yourself.

2) I think I see what others do, but I'd put it a different way. I see the statements that bother you as confirming that your STBXWS demands external validation, and he's demanding external validation from you after acting in ways that attack your own sense of worth. He's attacked you with great effect in ways that work only because you love him; then he demonstrates that he won't deal with his own shit unless you prove you continue to love him.

I'm sorry your H didn't set healing as his goal. I'm sorry he didn't see that he had to tear his approach to life apart and put it back together in a healthy way. That, like his A, is on him, not on you. There's nothing more you could have done to get him to change.

3) You're working through this. It's painful. It takes longer than any of us wants it to take. It's harder than any of us wants it to be. You're making progress, though, and once progress starts, it often accelerates as time goes on. Have faith in yourself to keep solving your problems.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:02 PM, Saturday, September 16th]

I think what I'm discovering is that processing all this for me is incredibly helpful if I'm able to say it here and people can offer

That happened to me too!

This made me angry too!

This is why that behaviour or situation hurts so much!

It doesn't take it away, but it let's me pull it out, look it square in the eye, validate how much it hurt - and move forward.

Are you me? I could have written exactly what you did since I went through a lot of this with my XWH too! It caused extreme amounts of anger because Xwh treated me like an emotional punching bag. When you boil it all down there were two main issues I dealt with:

1. Him verbally attacking me and accusing me of doing something (attacking him/being angry) which was not happening.
Xwh is very conflict avoidant, and he would see ALL conversations as conflict. This made R impossible because the accusations of "you're too angry so I can't do this" were neverending. It was always something I did/did not do which made him act as he wanted. Me crying/in pain made him feel guilt and made me a bad person. Sometimes he accused the tears as really being anger and would yell at me for being angry at him when I'm literally crying or triggered. Me doing chores in the house -like doing the dishes- made him feel inadequate and if I did not stop doing the chore/sit down when asked it was an attack on him because he'd just told me I made him feel guilty. Any reaction I had that wasn't pleasant/super accepting was seen as an attack on him. Ironically enough, After Dday me being nice was also seen as an attack on him and he would suspiciously ask, "Why are you being so nice?" when I used basic politeness with him in front of our child. Every conversation - no matter how mundane - was a battle where Xwh felt he needed to attack/win and I was the unwilling person dragged into his arena of inadequacies.

2. Dealing with his continued broken promises/hypocrisy.
I am a person who keeps my word so seeing him break a promise to R by not doing anything requested was infuriating. Having him do the opposite of what he said he would do was also enraging because he had constant double standards where he expected me to be accepting of everything he did,and he couldn't be held accountable for going back on his word/questioned on anything. HE was allowed to say he was unhappy with something yet I never was. He could use the excuse that "my brain isn't wired that way" as to why he couldn't pick up his dirty clothes strewn around the house-and as his excuse to why he couldn't cut off the OW- and I was expected to accept it. When I said "My brain isn't wired to accept being married to a man who has a girlfriend/cheats" I was told by XWH I needed to get over it/accept that he would not cut off OW. Xwh was a typical cake eater and a hypocrite as he kept saying he only wanted to be friends with me when he refused to let his OW go 4 months after dday, yet he'd get angry I wouldn't do things for him like a wife does when pulling the 180. Calling him out on hypocrisy/double standards only led to issues from #1. I was understandably angry because his actions repeatedly showed he refused to be a person me and my son could to trust for our safety and future.

TLDR: It's NORMAL to be angry when someone is bullying you by being hypocritical, selfish, irresponsible, constantly breaking promises, and unfairly verbally attacking you/throwing accusations your way!