SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I was betrayed by my husband. He didn't cheat, but its left me with similar feelings, because it certainly blurred the lines, too close for any comfort. I'm feeling a bit traumatized by the whole ordeal (mostly because of his actions/ inactions), I'm humiliated, I feel like a fool, my soul is crushed, heart is broken. I'm pissed and full of rage when I think about it too long. He has shit boundaries and he lied to me and now there is a big gaping hole where trust used to be and I'm angry about it.

When this all came to a head and I could no longer let shit fly, we had a blowup. I didn't expect him to "get it" right then and there. I mean for the love of god one of his plea deals was "you act like I cheated." When again its a very very fine line. And he's right he didn't cheat, he didn't sleep with anyone, and it wasn't an emotional affair,  but it feels like it in the most basic and painful ways. Still, and I cannot explain why, I felt good about the conversation in between the fighting. I had my foot in the door as he was FINALLY willing to hear me out with less resistance and though we fought and nothing was resolved that night, I actually saw a smidgen of hope.

So, I went back for more. I was met with resistance, he gave me excuse after excuse, justification after justification, and was steadfast in his stubbornness and cruelty while I was steadfast in calling out his bullshit. I have to admit that it does nothing for the unremorseful to go round and round with me, he tailspinned in his inability to own his shit while I stepped back and gladly watched him crash. It actually hurt to witness but it was necessary.

I am in a unique position full of understanding and compassion for those who are faced with their shitty choices. I understand much about it and also that a catalyst is often required for a wake up leading to real and sustainable change. 

His catalyst was me leaving, it wasn’t planned or used for this purpose. We ended up in our first ever screaming match for no good reason other than he couldn't handle the pain I was suffering at his hands and I broke. The only thing I was yelling over his yelling was "its not bullshit to me" over and over until something switched, not by my own doing, my body literally shut down. I was void of any emotion in an instant. 

I stopped yelling, I was no longer angry, sad, or anxious. I didn't feel anything on the opposite spectrum either. No happiness, no laughter, no love. I simply said I will not be here when you get home, I'm staying at this hotel tonight, I need space. I went home on my lunch break to pack a bag and as I was walking through the kitchen I looked up at the calendar and dammit I realized I couldn't leave. I had responsibilities at home with the kids, it was graduation. So instead I went outside and smashed some old plates against a brick wall. I didn't talk to him for the rest of the day.

That evening when I returned home from work he was already there (I always beat him home) and his entire demeanor was changed. He humbled himself and asked what can he do to help fix this. Honestly, I was pissed. Going back to me being an understanding person in these situations, I was, I am! but I was still mad. Mad that it took ME reaching MY breaking point before he saw the seriousness at hand... Whatever.

We had our first conversation about what happened. A real conversation. No defensiveness from him, he listened and I felt heard. He validated my feelings. Even when my anger came through and I got a little mean delivering some hard truths, he didn't match me, he just let me vent. I've triggered a few times since that conversation and other good conversations, he has handled them so well. I can feel myself breathing deeper.

We are getting there. Thats the point. And it truly does feel that we are on good grounds to start making some sense of it all. I'm willing to give it a go. The thing is, I still don't have any emotions when I think about it or him. I get gut feelings when I trigger or something doesn't sit right. But, in my heart, nothingness. He is aware that my love is conditional at the moment, and that I'm experiencing a loss of emotions altogether.

Is this the polf? It worries me but at the same time it feels liberating to not be bogged down in my pain. I've made some personal progress in this space without the influence of feelings, just straight thinking and its helpful. 

But all this thinking has left me with questions that I don't have the answers for.

Its mind melting really. I swear I'm going to have the emotional intelligence of a super human when its all said and done. Like next level enlightened monk shit. I could laugh if it weren’t so tragic.

So here's the thing, I know a thing or two about the work as a WS. But I don't know where to begin as a BS, if you recall my past experience I didn't get the chance to R with my ex. So I didn't do any R work. And I'm not talking about Survival 101 (thats been established) more like Coping 202.

Because all I can think about is all the never will be's. The never again's. The no more's. It feels that bleak.

I have to start somewhere and I'm interested in what the work looks like coping with the betrayal, AND more than that, coping with the knowledge this person has fucked me over.

A few things that are weighing on me at the moment,

How do I get past letting him touch me and kiss me without recoiling? How do you work through that? Some days are better than others. Sometimes all I can think about is the ways he has let me down, hurt me, emotionally abused me, and my whole body screams "WHY ARE YOU LETTING HIM TOUCH YOU?!"

How do you lay in their arms at night and cope with the relentless thoughts that this person, YOUR person let you down in the biggest way? One minute I'm snuggled up to him, then the wave of thoughts come and next thing I know I'm as far as I can get on the other side of the bed. Unable to even let him rest a hand on me.

I participated in HB for a couple of days after the screaming match and catalyst. But since then I haven't had the faintest desire. Even that fell into the void. I want it back. I want our sex life back. It was wonderful and important to me. The chemistry was unexplainable and now I can't imagine a world where it will ever be the same. I'm THAT gutted by his actions. What have you done to recover that? Is it even possible? Because in this moment I feel our sexual connection is severed completely. That pisses me off too.

We haven't had sex since then, he is being patient and understanding. Saying he doesn't want it if its not genuine and he's happy to wait. I don't know how to make my body respond in that way. Is it just one of those things you have to jump back in the saddle again, get in there and the rest follows? So frustrating.

How do I kick start my heart? Polf, does it resolve on its own? Do I have to actively work to get off that ride?

And TRIGGERS! Unfortunately I am faced with a permanent trigger.. a walking, breathing, live-action trigger. A family friend (his people) that there is no getting rid of. Limited sure but not completely. I have to face her sometimes... I could scream. His behavior towards her has changed BUT ONLY AFTER I GOT PISSED ABOUT IT and had to explain to the very last detail why it goes against us. Is it his new boundary in place or the one that feels like I'm forcing on him? How do I know?

How do you convince yourself of anything?!

I want to see where this goes, because if his work looks anything like mine did, it would restore that loss of security. I realize that I have to heal from his shit too for this to work. And I'm willing to put in the effort, I just don't know how.

Is this the polf? It worries me but at the same time it feels liberating to not be bogged down in my pain.

Doubt it. Too soon. POLF happens when what progress you were making stalls out and you wonder if this is the best as it gets. That doesn't happen until a year or so for most. You never made that progress at all.
You don't trust him for good reason. Your mind threw up walls between you and him severing your bonds with him. The lizard brain, protect yourself. Some never recover that trust after they are pushed to the breaking point.

His behavior towards her has changed BUT ONLY AFTER I GOT PISSED ABOUT IT and had to explain to the very last detail why it goes against us. Is it his new boundary in place or the one that feels like I'm forcing on him?

That's the biggest dilemma that a BS considering R faces. Does the WS really understand that what they did was wrong? Do they really believe that? Are the taking sufficient steps to correct that broken part inside of them that lead them to betray their family? Or are they just going through the motions to mollify their spouse. One way to help determine this is who is driving the R. It really needs to be the WS, and in your case that doesn't seem to be the case.

Hugs to you xx Sadly I have no advice as am struggling with the same questions, but am following your thread as I'd give anything to know the answers too! If only it were that simple 😔

Is it just one of those things you have to jump back in the saddle again, get in there and the rest follows? So frustrating.

I can only speak for myself. Which was exactly that: getting back in the saddle and taking back what was mine so to speak. Thought to myself she’s not getting into my bed as well (metaphorically). I remember my frame of mind on this but don’t remember the timeframe exactly. It did help not to let it become an elephant in the room. For me anyway. Perhaps start off by having a talk in the bath together or something? Not sex per se but physical communing in some way.

I seem to remember my fury played an interesting part in it.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

I think you're in post-d-day shock, not POLF. My usual advice is first to figure out what you want, irrespective of what you think is possible. Once you know what you want, you can make (hopefully) informed guesses about what's possible.

You've got some good evidence that R is possible with your H, if you want it.

The problem is that you probably have competing wants. Take your time. Figure out what you want.

You might want to use a good IC to get help processing your feelings.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:07 PM, Wednesday, May 24th]

How do I get past letting him touch me and kiss me without recoiling? How do you work through that? Some days are better than others. Sometimes all I can think about is the ways he has let me down, hurt me, emotionally abused me, and my whole body screams "WHY ARE YOU LETTING HIM TOUCH YOU?!"

Always, always, always take care of yourself first. Your gut - your whole body - is telling you not to let him in right now. If he was doing everything right and you felt this way and wanted to push through it, I'd say do some thought work. But he's not doing everything right so I say don't betray yourself.

His behavior towards her has changed BUT ONLY AFTER I GOT PISSED ABOUT IT and had to explain to the very last detail why it goes against us. Is it his new boundary in place or the one that feels like I'm forcing on him? How do I know?

Oof, I feel you on that one. I had to literally train my H, and it took a long, long time. He never did anything that made me think that he was going to cheat again, but he did stuff that made other people (and me) uncomfortable and was completely oblivious about it. Workplace sexual harassment training helped a lot with waking him up to it, but for a long time it was frustrating AF to have to tell him things like, "You can't invite any woman but me to sit on your knee. It doesn't matter if there's nowhere for her to sit or if your intentions are good. That's my spot, and my spot only." That's a huge DUH to me, but evidently not to him.

I'm willing to put in the effort, I just don't know how.

I think maybe you need to relax and detach for a bit before you start working. Sort of get centered and focus on yourself for a bit. Does that sound appealing? And feasible?

IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND I MIGHT EXPERIENCE THE GRIEF PROCESS 🙄

Yeah, that makes more sense than POLF. I think its shock. Ugh that means there's more to come.

One way to help determine this is who is driving the R. It really needs to be the WS, and in your case that doesn't seem to be the case.

That's true. In my mind I feel more of an expert on this and so I was giving him our way out. But, that was specifically aimed at what needs to happen in order for me to reconsider leaving at a better time. He now has all the facts and I suppose I should sit back tend to my wounds and as frustrating as it is just watch and see.

I mean hell, he hasn't even put his full remorse into action. This morning I was struggling, he recognized it, addressed it, made reassuring gestures. Thats wonderful but not enough. Not yet. His remorse hasn't been truly put to the test, if you know what I mean.

And you know what else pisses me off? That I'm grateful for his reassurances. What sense does that make? Anyway.

It did help not to let it become an elephant in the room.

I'm going to take your advice on this. I think talking it through and explaining exactly why its such a problem for me will be helpful for me, and this conversation will be a good exercise in measuring his dedication. And depending on how it goes it could do wonders for us. So its a win all around. Thank you.

The problem is that you probably have competing wants. Take your time. Figure out what you want.

You're right I do. I want out, I want revenge, I want to hurt him as much as he has hurt me. And the injustice of it all! But, in the next breath I want the complete opposite, I want to feel love and excitement for him again. I want healing, I want a better relationship.

Why do I always think I can rush my feelings and healing?! Its that word again, time. I need time. I  NEED TO GIVE MYSELF TIME.

I think maybe you need to relax and detach for a bit before you start working. Sort of get centered and focus on yourself for a bit. Does that sound appealing? And feasible?

It sounds welcoming for sure. Probably for the best. I need to slow waaaayyyyy down.

The time line on this is wack. Y'all don't judge me too harshly. This betrayal happened over a year ago. It took a long time for me to get to this point of no more. A few things interfered with the immediate attention to this incident that has delayed this.

Mostly my own doing. I let him bully me into silence, and it was incredibly easy for me to fall back on my exceptional compartmentalizing skills. He has since apologized profusely for this and without any push from me owned his emotional abuse. Called it by name. I was shocked when he said that. That moment right there is that smidgen of hope I mentioned above. Ffs he even said "I'm no help to you until I get help for myself."

Anyway, then two months ago we got into an argument (unrelated) but I felt so goddamn disrespected on top of it all and I couldn't, wouldn't hold it back a moment longer. I laid it on line. And it all feels too fresh and painful. Its like I'm living it for the first time. How it should have gone down then. Plus, all the added hurts between then and now. Its a mess. I feel like a mess.

Ffs he even said "I'm no help to you until I get help for myself."

Did he get that help?

Did he get that help?

Hell no. Its funny you pointed that out specifically. I literally just had this conversation. Once we got home he was incredibly attentive considering how this day has gone.

One thing I refuse to do is hide my feelings from him. No more of that, he is going to know what I'm thinking how I'm feeling he's going to see my tears and stand with me in the fire or get out.

Today was a down day and he knew it. So anyway we get home tonight and he's concerned about my well being. Asks me if there is anything he can do to help. I asked "have you made an IC appointment?"

Of course the answer was no (I already knew the answer) and we left it at that. Not in a fight or any ill will towards each other, just sadness with a touch of matter of factness. So.

Sorry to say but that tells you everything you need to know about the situation, doesn't it? I hope he gets it together quickly for your sake.

Maybe I’m an anomaly or something. Quickly after DDay, my wife and I were having sex a lot. Good sex too. I think I read somewhere that is call "hysterical bonding". Now my wife was very slow to become active in recovery, still is for the most part but moving in the right direction. However, because of her slow involvement, I was forced to learn to be self sufficient and be able to make myself happy without her. This has given me a new sense of power in that now when we discuss things, she will usually break down in tears and I feel nothing. I mean there’s some sadness there but it’s like I’ve lost all emotion. I don’t care about sex anymore, at least not with her. Whenever we engage in it images of her and her AP come up and it’s lights out for Mr Happy. But I don’t care. I’m at 2 years and 2 months since D day and I think I’m at Polf. I really don’t know anything anymore, but I hear you and I feel what you’re saying. Sometimes I wish I could get a do over after D day as I’m sure I’d handle things differently. I don’t know that I can give any productive advice, but I want you to know that I’m sorry you are here and I hope we can both figure things out soon.

I felt very embarrassed coming here over my current situation since technically its really not cheating. But, nonetheless I'm left feeling betrayed to my core and I'm not sure I want my relationship anymore. My LONG TIME therapist retired before I could even go to her with this and I've dragged my feet finding a new one thinking I have all I need to get through this, but I don't.

I didn't mention the betrayal in my first post. He lied about having lunch with another woman who used to be a rep turned friend. He said "I knew you would be mad" I'm not going to unpack it all here, but I did my sleuthing and I watched, and all it comes down to is he didn't even give me the chance, and he took away a very important piece of any relationship. Not to mention all the other damage that followed.

I think one of the greatest things SI did was help me get my self worth back. And to stay with him now feels like I'm betraying myself and all that I've worked for and all that I became. That sounds so dramatic typed out. But, it's true.

And I'm sad because I don't want to have to sit here and contemplate my life with him.

He lied about having lunch with another woman who used to be a rep turned friend. He said "I knew you would be mad" I'm not going to unpack it all here, but I did my sleuthing and I watched, and all it comes down to is he didn't even give me the chance, and he took away a very important piece of any relationship.

Why do you consider this not cheating? Because no ILYs were exchanged and no sex happened?

For me that would definitely qualify as cheating. My husband lying about having lunch with another woman is cheating by my books.

I’m so sorry you’re hurting. To me it doesn’t sound like your WH has done the work to understand the trauma he inflicted on you. The fact that he thinks "I thought you would be mad" is still a good enough reason to lie, about anything, tells you everything you need to know.

Nobody can tell you what you need to do. Only you can decide if you still have it in you to keep going in your current relationship or call it a day.

At a minimum I would expect him to do a lot of work (IC and MC) if he wanted to remain married in order to understand why he thinks there are any justified reasons to deceive his spouse.

Hiding truth of something you don't approve of is not being a safe partner.

He was initially scared when you went flat. But not scared enough to start doing the work. Cheating/not cheating it's not the action of a remorseful partner that understands the damage of their actions.

Get yourself in therapy again, start figuring out what you want and need. The go for it.

R usually means no more lies. Your H lied. I'm very sorry he did that, but you know in your heart and head that your feeling betrayed is a natural consequence. I'm really sorry you're going through this, but I'm glad - and I think you should be glad - that you feel this way. Betrayal hurts.

My reco is, as always: feel the feelings. You have them, they don't have you. I expect you'll know what you want once you let yourself feel.

It's OK for this to be a deal killer. It doesn't have to be, but if it is, it is.

(((foreverlabeled)))

Retirement? For the record, I'm angry at a therapist for dying before d-day. I really wanted to talk with him on and after d-day.

Cheating may depend on what you constitute it as but it is no less a betrayal. It's perfectly fine to not want this in your marriage and especially the disrespect he has routinely displayed in arguments since even if remorse is peppered in. It is not an overreaction to want to end it here. It is likely what is best for you given your history and where you are now some time later. He may not be the worst of the worst but he may not be right for you.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 5:48 PM, Thursday, June 8th]

Foreverlabeled. Your experience sounds very much like mine. After nearly 30 years, I’ve never heard or read a description that is so similar. The BS says their WS either had an EA or PA. For six months, my husband was having an inappropriate relationship with a coworker. I’ve asked him many, many questions about their relationship. I’ve read the definition of an EA and it did not accurately describe what I believe the relationship was. There were secret phone calls, secret lunches where they would leave the workplace separately, and meeting after work, nights, mornings, and weekends. I knew about it from the beginning. I caught him on the phone with her one morning. I followed her after work one day and discovered them meeting. It was agonizing. He was gaslighting me and getting angry with me for not trusting him. Why in the heck would I trust him? I had caught him in lies. I honestly think he didn’t think he was doing anything wrong since there had been no sex, no physical touching of any kind, or any verbalization of feelings. I just kept getting the "We’re just friends." I know now that is a huge red flag. When I told him I wanted him to stop seeing her, he acted as though I was depriving him of being with his friend. He even went so far as to say she was his best friend.
After six months of this behavior, I told him to move out. He left and was gone for five months, then begged me to let him come back home. The relationship did turn sexual after he moved out, but I’m not going to address that part since your post was about the inappropriate relationship.
How did I deal with it? I asked my husband many questions about those six months. He gave me very honest and transparent answers, and was very patient with me. Honestly, I think he was my biggest source of healing.
I still get angry, and I think the lying is the worst part. I’ve had to realize and accept that he was a morally broken person at that time. We’ve done couples therapy and I’ve done and am still doing individual therapy. Meeting and talking to people on forums has helped. I’ve read some very good books. A whole lot of prayer and Bible reading. We’ve both had a huge change in our spiritual lives and are both much more dedicated to our Christian faith now. That’s why I believe his answers. I’ve also had to except that the OW was and still is a lost and broken person with very low self-esteem. She came onto men, including married men, in order to boost her self-esteem. She is the lowest of the low. I’ve had to accept that it is not my place to judge or get revenge on her. God will take care of her, and she will answer to him.
God is just. He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you. 2 Thessalonians 1:6

Foreverlabeled. Your experience sounds very much like mine. After nearly 30 years, I’ve never heard or read a description that is so similar. The BS says their WS either had an EA or PA. For six months, my husband was having an inappropriate relationship with a coworker. I’ve asked him many, many questions about their relationship. I’ve read the definition of an EA and it did not accurately describe what I believe the relationship was. There were secret phone calls, secret lunches where they would leave the workplace separately, and meeting after work, nights, mornings, and weekends. I knew about it from the beginning. I caught him on the phone with her one morning. I followed her after work one day and discovered them meeting. It was agonizing. He was gaslighting me and getting angry with me for not trusting him. Why in the heck would I trust him? I had caught him in lies. I honestly think he didn’t think he was doing anything wrong since there had been no sex, no physical touching of any kind, or any verbalization of feelings. I just kept getting the "We’re just friends." I know now that is a huge red flag. When I told him I wanted him to stop seeing her, he acted as though I was depriving him of being with his friend. He even went so far as to say she was his best friend.
After six months of this behavior, I told him to move out. He left and was gone for five months, then begged me to let him come back home. The relationship did turn sexual after he moved out, but I’m not going to address that part since your post was about the inappropriate relationship.
How did I deal with it? I asked my husband many questions about those six months. He gave me very honest and transparent answers, and was very patient with me. Honestly, I think he was my biggest source of healing.
I still get angry, and I think the lying is the worst part. I’ve had to realize and accept that he was a morally broken person at that time. We’ve done couples therapy and I’ve done and am still doing individual therapy. Meeting and talking to people on forums has helped. I’ve read some very good books. A whole lot of prayer and Bible reading. We’ve both had a huge change in our spiritual lives and are both much more dedicated to our Christian faith now. That’s why I believe his answers. I’ve also had to except that the OW was and still is a lost and broken person with very low self-esteem. She came onto men, including married men, in order to boost her self-esteem. She is the lowest of the low. I’ve had to accept that it is not my place to judge or get revenge on her. God will take care of her, and she will answer to him.
God is just. He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you. 2 Thessalonians 1:6