SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

That should really say "official" D-day. I know that these stories all sound the same and everyone here is probably sick of reading about it but I'm feeling so lost and scared right now.

4 years ago my fiancée started an emotional affair with a coworker. It may have gone further I'm not sure yet. She displayed all of the signs of cheating. Vanishing for hours, hiding her phone, changing pins, deleting everything etc. I did some digging and the only proof I got was a couple of flirty messages. I found lots of circumstantial things too.

I confronted her at the time. I had to because she discovered my snooping. And I got made to feel like I was crazy. Denial and gaslighting abound. Everything seemed to die down and my medication kept me numb to the world so I could ignore it all. About a year later there was more suspicion so I confronted her again and got more denial but again everything stopped.

I've been off my medication for months now so I'm not longer in a bubble and on Monday I discovered some suspicious clothing in front of her. She acted suspicious while I was finding it (there was a Christmas present for me next to them so this is her explanation for that behaviour) and gave an explanation for them which was plausible but it still played on my mind. Monday evening I confronted her again and told her that I had found other things that made me know that her denials were lies. I revealed some of these details to get more information and she finally came clean.

She told me that they were sending each other flirty messages and she has felt so guilty and bad for the last 4 years. It only went on for a couple of months and when she'd go out randomly it was to clear her head and cope with the guilt. On one of these trips she just happened to bump into him and they talked for a while. Nothing ever happened on person because it felt weird. He sent her some naked pictures and despite her searching for ways to take naked selfies she says she never sent any back. They both decided to break it off because they wanted to focus on their own relationships.

When she told me, it was just about the flirting and the one time they met up. She explained her guilt and started crying so I had to comfort her. Obviously I love her and I did that but it just feels like I should have been the one being comforted at that moment.

She is not good at opening up and speaking openly about things even with me after being together over 11 years. So our main form of communication about this is via increasingly lengthy WhatsApp messages. She is answering my questions and has given me the whole story (I'm not trusting it is whole yet) and is willing to answer questions where I am seeing inconsistencies. She is explaining her reasons for it all and how bad she feels.

I want to try for reconciliation because I really do love her and if what she has told me is the truth then it's not actually that bad of a betrayal. The main thing that is affecting me about it are the lies and gaslighting. She insists that she wants to try an work it all out too but I am still feeling that if I push too hard or say the wrong thing then she will just give up on us.

I know that this shouldn't be what I am worried about. She betrayed me and I have the control over staying or leaving. But I just have this rage and need to vent and tell her everything that I am feeling. However that would be counterproductive and while I would feel good directly afterwards I would feel much worse than this shortly after that.

She is trying to open up and speak when I talk to her about things that are on my mind but it's a slow process and I don't want to push too hard on that because it is progress after all. I have made a list of my needs and wants from her. I want to go through this list in person when we have space and time to do so. I will explain my reasoning behind each point and she can tell me her feelings even if she has to text that to me. She knows I have the list and has expressed fear that if she forgets to do something on there that it'll push me away but I have explained that if she forgets to do something then it is OK I know it'll be a massive change from her normal life and mistakes are bound to happen.

She has been very supportive this last week and has informed me of things that may cause me distress if I didn't know about them.

Now onto my own issues. In my past I have been in a long term emotionally abusive relationship. It ruined my personality and self confidence. I know that the actions I need to take to feel safe and start trusting her again are going to be very controlling. But I just can't bring myself to do them. I have experienced this level of control and could never inflict it on someone I love even though I know that there is a reason for it.

If you've read all of this then I thank you. Any advice or support would be really appreciated.

There are more experienced members here so just a quick answer for now.

You're 5 days out, you don't know how you will feel in a month or a year (I was in a numb phase for 4 months before it hit me). Don't commit yourself to reconcile at this point.

You also don't know if you got the truth - an affair that lasted 4 years involved a lot of lying, and people don't become sincere overnight. Your partner is not an exception no matter how much you'd want her to be. Make her do an STD test and do the same yourself, regardless of what she says. You are also not mentioning that she broke contact with the man - don't assume she has. She needs to do that in front of you and make sure to follow through on this commitment.

Do whatever you need to do to feel comfortable - eat, sleep, exercise, do things you enjoy. If she wishes to support you and you are willing to accept it, fine. Don't feel you need to win her over in any way, it's what they call "pick me dance" here - it keeps the infidelity going and crushes your self-esteem. You only take care of you for now. Sorry that this is happening to you, it is not easy.

[This message edited by ZDZD at 12:27 PM, Saturday, October 29th]

4 long years. I was in your sane position except I knew what was going on. My H just refused to admit it. The OW pretended to be my friend too.

You have communication issues. "Discussing" this in an app is avoidance. The cheater avoids your feelings by reading a message?

Hmmmm…..sounds like the cheater is trying to control everything including the Reconciliation.

I suggest that you get a good counselor for yourself. Someone who understands infidelity and betrayal.

Let the counselor support you and figure out what YOU need to heal. That should be your priority.

You need to get some control back in this relationship. If not, there is a chance she will cheat again, just like my H. Affair 2 was easier b/c there were no consequences from affair#1.

It wasn’t until I changed and started making demands and did the hard 180 that he realized he couldn’t pull the wool Over my eyes or get his own way.

IFSL,

so very sorry you this happened to you and your WP/WF placed you in such an abusive and painful situation... You're just 5 days from DDay...

First and foremost:

Now onto my own issues. In my past I have been in a long term emotionally abusive relationship. It ruined my personality and self confidence. I know that the actions I need to take to feel safe and start trusting her again are going to be very controlling. But I just can't bring myself to do them.

Are you in IC (individual counseling) or any other type of help? Sorry to say this, but you need to think hard WHY you want (IF you want) to continue this relationship with WF who betrayed you for 4! years and does not seem remorseful. You don't specify how long you have been together and dating. But dating time supposed to be a special and uplifting time to learn about each other, have fun together, see if you two are compatible for real relationship. Try to figure about what's going on inside your mind and subconscious that sort of allows you not to become angry and dance the "pick me dance", understand that her behavior is not a proper way to start long-term life together and if she is a "marriage material" in general. Before she brings you more grief and pain. Start working on yourself with the pro to understand and change yourself first. You also need to heal from this betrayal, and you're looking for timeframe of at least 2 years. And WHY would you be willing to always think on the back or your mind what the hell she's doing and police her in the M? So, first and foremost , find yourself a good IC to work on Yourself.

They both decided to break it off because they wanted to focus on their own relationships.

You need to inform the OBP (other betrayed partner), since the betrayal, lies, deceit, minimizing, gaslighting, etc obviously happens to the other betrayed partner. She has a right to know that the "theft" has been committed inside of her relationship. Additionally, you really don't know if they really broke off. These people lie, and it becomes their habitual thing.

As you probably realized, and she showed you by her actions and chain of decisions she made that this is your WP's way of life and the way of thinking. This is WHO SHE IS! Listen to what she tells you, don't try to minimize this in your mind. Otherwise, you'll reap what you sow. YOU would not be able to change or fix her by giving her lists or your wants and needs. Even setting up boundaries may not work. She can say and promise the fidelity, but these are just words. And the words are IRRELEVANT in such abusive situations. If she realizes that she needs to work on herself to fix her brokenness and hollowness, then good for her! Since this kind of behavior is sort of an addiction, the process might be long and deep. However, it's 100% on HER.

Marriage can only be healthy when both people are healthy and prove that they're willing to grow in the relationship and grow the relationship. As dating is a good test. She did not pass this test or the potential safe and respectful life partner.

Look and this as a lesson and the alarm to start working on YOURSELF first and make internal changes to see if these changes change your perspective on the intimate betrayal.

Strength to you and take a good / loving care of yourself !

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 1:57 PM, Saturday, October 29th]

It sounds like she has only shared the tip of the iceberg with you. Leaving for hours to "clear her head" and just happening to bump into him? That is really hard to believe.

She told you it only lasted a few months, does that jive with your observations of all the red flags? Was she only doing those things for a short period of time or did they last much longer than that? I mean you said there was more suspicion a year later, so I am thinking this was a much longer affair. And if that was the case, it's hard to believe she just flirted for an entire year and when they met up she just chatted about the naked photos he was sending her.

She is playing you. No way a 4 year EA turns out to be just some flirty thing with no more than that involved. Plenty of time to evolve on the thing and no one to stop it. Long walks with ramdom encounters... NOPE. That simply does not happen out of the blue. You are being played like a 6 string. Don't mean to be hard, but one need to let reallity settle in so we can proceed to do the correct things.

Crying on you = gaslighting plus she is afraid she got caught. She is not sorry at this point. Whatever you find do not reveal your sources.

You are a few days in to discovery. Don't go the reconcile road imediately. You need time to process what you really want after such a discovery. You do not even have the truth (or at least some of it) from her.

Follow the notions:

Timeline, std test, no contact, acccess to all her electonics. No sex until you know what you need to do going forward. Love bombing will happen. Don't fall for it. No bargain on this requests. It should be Do IT or I'M OUT! If she refuses. Dump her! If she starts getting angry - dump her! Get MAD. Get ANGRY. That is the only way you can get out of the infidelity shit show presented upon you while keeping your integrity intact.

Don't play the "pick me dance". You are giving her power over decisions doing so. And making yourself look weak. It was HER that was eating the cake and keeping it... SHE was the one having all the fun while disrespecting you. Never forget that. Focus on THAT.

One as to be willing to loose the relationship to really see if the relationship is meant for us. It really IS this way. Trust me. Trust many around here. Ask us how we know. I wish I had the knowledge provided around here on how to behave when the shit hit the fan on my side. Things would have been way diferent, oh, they would certainly. Use this knowledge to not do the same mistakes some did. Because cheaters LIE... And they lie A LOT.

Eat, sleep, drink plenty of water and exercise. Take care of YOU until you fell that she is doing what she needs to do to fix that absurd behaviour and to feel a safe partner to you.

Always remember - YOU DESERVE BETTER.

You WILL Be alright.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 8:07 PM, Saturday, October 29th]

Brother I'm sorry that you had to find us but glad you did. Based on what your WW has been cheating your for at least 4 years, it seems you only know the proverbial "tip of the iceberg". Men don't just typically stay in a relationship for years and send/exchange naked pictures to just "talk about the weather" when they meet in person, they typically have sex and lots of it, especially when they are already sexting with AP, btw I've read a lot of bs and ridiculous thing here on SI and other forums but her claim that she was "searching for ways to send him naked selfies" (as in all you have to do is literally take the naked selfie and reply to his) has to be a good contender to the top of the chart when it comes to just plain stupid things to say. Like others mentioned you offered R too quick, at this point you're not even sure of what you're forgiving, I always suggest D when it comes to LTAs like in your case, but if you insist on R here are some of the basic steps that have stood the test of time and could help you improve your chances a successful R:

1) Full Exposure: Expose the A with OBS (Other betrayed Spouse/GF), nothing kills an A faster than full exposure with OBS close relatives and close mutual friends WITHOUT warning (very important), exposure typically kills the "beautiful, romantic and special" aspects of an A and replaces them with pure shame and embarrassment, the more she hates the A, typically the more she will have AP who once exposed will most likely dump her in a desperate effort to save his own M, you will likely get a second set of eyes (OBS) to help with NC, exposure could also help with the remorse process, I would have her apologize to both sets of parents (if alive) for her huge betrayal.

2) Demand she gets tested for STDs/STIs (you should too): Again people involved an A when in close proximity typically have sex (why not?), some potentially serious deseases could remain dormant for years and early detection could help with treatment, also the "walk of shame" to the doctor's office could also help with remorse and drive home the potential risks involved.

3) NC Forever: Demand she sends an NC (No Contact) text to AP in front of you, watch her hit "send", short and to the point, no sweet goodbyes, then block him (including emails, social media, etc.).

4) Contact a D attorney to know your legal options, some may even do a free consultation, while you're at it ask about a postnuptial agreement, in case you later decide this was/is a dealbreaker for you and/or she cheats again in the future, remember she's now a proven cheater an liar.

5) She needs to get IC to find out her "whys", forget MC for now, at this point MC is likely a waste of time and money, the M didn't cheat, she did and continued to do it for years.

6) Full Access: She needs to offer full access to her phone and all electronic devices and passwords, don't fall for the "it's my privacy" bs, when married it becomes "our privacy", transparency is a must and non-negotiable.

If she refuses any of the above just file for D and have her served without warning, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, if so just let the D process run its course and get out of infidelity, others will chime in with more advice, the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through your difficult situation, just look at your member number, we've literally seen this play out THOUSANDS of times here on ther forums, every case is different but cheaters typically follow a similar script, keep posting frequently.

I unfortunately agree with the others. You’re being lied to. Most likely this was a PA.

You’re doing the worst thing possible by playing the pick me dance. You don’t want to push her hard or she will leave you, etc. I assume that you have low self esteem and are co dependent with her.

My friend, you need to completely change course and take control of the situation. This starts by you expressing your anger and disappointment, telling her that you are undecided whether you want to R or not, and that your decision regarding R will start with her writing a complete timeline verified by a poly.

I know that the actions I need to take to feel safe and start trusting her again are going to be very controlling. But I just can't bring myself to do them. I have experienced this level of control and could never inflict it on someone I love even though I know that there is a reason for it.

Having boundaries isn't controlling. Your boundaries are about YOU, and about what kind of treatment you're willing to accept. Sure, if you set out a list of rules for her to follow like you're her dad, she's going to treat you like her dad. We don't want a parental relationship with our primary person. We want partnership. Equality. Reciprocity.

Try turning your list into Boundary Statements and making them about you. ie. "WGF is not allowed to text other males for recreation" goes to "I will not tolerate a mate who feels the need to validate with other men". I know the difference seems small, but try it anyway. What you find as you're switching perspectives is where your REAL boundaries are and where they ought to be. Boundaries are serious business which require enforcement, so we have to really think about where the line is because what we're saying is that we'd rather forfeit the relationship than live with that broken boundary.

Hi OP, sorry you're here.

She was having an emotional affair but was disappearing for hours. Translation - she was getting physical with him in those missing hours.

I agree with everyone else, you only have the tip of the iceberg.

A couple things. Judge carefully if she has admitted to much or anything that you haven't uncovered. That is a standard cheater move to only admit to what you have raised (hiding from you the mass of the iceberg under the water).

Secondly when you're confronting/questioning her about all this, stop doing it by electronic device - do it in person when you can look her right in the eyes and see her body language.

Man oh man she cheats and you have to comfort HER. That my friend tells us a great deal about your relationship, codependency is likely. I know you're trying to work on confidence and assertiveness, but you need it badly here. Keep working at it

If I read your post correctly, you've uncovered her cheating again recently. The sexy underwear was for him, not you.

You've come here for help, we want to help but you're likely going to get a lot of tough love from members. We're not picking on you, we're trying to help. Many of us were also raised as nice guys instead of confident, assertive men. To one degree or another we've been where you are.

Suggest one book to study and learn from - No More Mister Nice Guy.

Here's a truth you may not want to hear: you've been with her 11 years, that's a long time and I understand being reluctant to end it. The thing is though mate, you stay with her I think you need to accept the high likelihood of her cheating on you off and on forever. She's good at, and it obviously is giving her something she thinks she needs.

She's feeling guilty? Don't buy it. Try feeling thrilled and excited when she cheats with another man. She's a selfish, cruel cheater. Especially so that she's started it again when she saw it tore you up 4 years ago.

p.s. She still works with this guy? If true that's a big no-no. Seeing her boyfriend during the week at work keeps the affair going. She needs a new job if he's still there. Agree with others, STD tests all round. And make her show you the results from the doctor. DO NOT get her pregnant. I'd advise being comfortably reconciled for a couple years at least.

On one of these trips she just happened to bump into him and they talked for a while.

Man o man. We're a pretty cynical bunch here but this... you buy this? Possible sure. Also possible she got her back blown out by this guy.

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 6:59 PM, Saturday, October 29th]

Her making you feel crazy, the denial and gaslighting are not the actions of someone innocent. They are meant to manipulate you, blame shift and are some classic characteristics of a narcissist.

She did not carry on an emotional affair for 4 years and not have had anything physical. She's lying to you and that needs to sink in. Telling you she went out to clear her head and just so happened to run into her AP is pure BS. Cheaters lie, it's what they do throughout their affairs and as part of what they consider to be damage control because getting caught is just not convenient for them. It blows up their happy little bubble that their faux relationship has existed in.

She tells you she looked up ways to take photos of herself? You can bet she not only took them but sent them as well and over 4 years there likely is an enormous amount she both sent and received.

You are only 5 days out and I know that feeling. It's horrible and you don't know what to think, and are experiencing things we all have in those early days. Take a step back, give yourself some time and space. You need both. Right now your world has blown up and your emotions are raw which makes it damn near impossible to think with a clear head.

My WH had a long term affair and they are particularly hellish to deal with. Years of lies and betrayal. You have to remember she did this for 4 YEARS. That's an enormous betrayal over a long period.

Do you have support from family and friends? Have you told anyone? If not you should because having that support will be important for you in the coming weeks and months. Get into therapy if you can especially since you have been hurt in a previous relationship. There are no doubt trust, abandonment and emotional issues to work through.

Please take everything she says now with much skepticism and prepare yourself for more to come because there will be.

I’m sorry you are here and wish you the best. You have received great advice so far. I just want to share something I can relate to because I had the same feelings at Dday.

I want to try for reconciliation because I really do love her

Love is not enough, it’s not a 2 way street at the moment. There is so much work ahead of both of you. Don’t offer R this early, ask me how I know.

Hi everyone. Thank you for the replies and the harsh truths. I do need to hear them. I'll just clarify a few things. I have taken all of the advice on board and am working on standing up for myself more. The last message I sent her told her that I'm not willing to continue with this lack of control and am stopping let her walk all over me.

So the emotional affair only lasted 2-3 months (allegedly) and it was 4 years ago. After my dday then where I confronted her and was gaslighted all of the weird activity stopped or was more well hidden. The activity a year or so later was him talking to her about some family issues and her comforting him. Apart from the initial 2-3 months and that second time nothing seemed amiss. Although this is her story and I am taking it with a grain of salt.

She claims that it happened because she thinks she has body dysmorphia and that is why she had to Google how to take tasteful naked selfies and why she claims she never sent them. She claims that her searches for secret picture folder apps for her phone was because she wrote me a note explaining what she had done and wanted to send it to me and when she knew I was going through her phone she screenshotted it and wanted to hide the picture. She claims that it only started because she was at a low point and couldn't open up to me about it and despite all of my compliments to her and obvious attraction to her she thought it was my duty as her fiance to be like that, so when her coworker who was technically her boss complimented her she knew he didn't have to and liked the attention. I am obviously taking these claims with a grain of salt too.

I have been in therapy for my past issues and I am over the trauma however I am too much of a decent person to impose that type of control on anyone I love. Which is why I've been struggling.

When it comes to reconciliation I know it is quick however I have spent the last 4 years going over it in my mind repeatedly and picturing the worst case scenarios obsessively. If (and it is a big if) she is telling the truth about what really happened then it is far far more tame than anything I had pictured so my feelings on the matter are severely conflicted. I will not be proceeding with any efforts to reconcile until I can be as sure as possible that she is being honest about the extent of it. Which I know I may never actually get as every bit of communication they had is gone.

She is currently still working with him but claims that they aren't friends any more and only talk about work stuff. She has just been promoted and I am conflicted about an ultimatum about leaving the job as I have no proper career due to my abusive ex and again I am not capable of inflicting that kind of thing on someone I love.

He and his girlfriend have split up. Last week I had checked their Facebook profiles out of curiosity as I did that every now and again and saw that the relationship status was now hidden. I got in contact with her and asked if she knew anything about the actions 4 years ago and she had no idea and has since set her Facebook status to single. She obviously confronted him as he messaged my fiancée the next day (Tuesday) to tell her I'd been asking questions. I have been shown these messages and he seemed more concerned with insisting that if anything comes out it wasn't due to him. Thankfully I had been told the story of what happened on Monday night and so I know (or can't be sure because that conversation could very well have been staged) that she didn't just tell me because of that fact.

This is the thing. In your last post you discussed your feelings but there was no mention of concrete action. Telling your WW that you’re taking control of the situation is not action. This is action, for starters. Tell her explicitly:

1 . You need a complete written timeline in the next five days
2. That you are in the process of setting up a poly for the following week to verify the timeline. Which you obviously must set up.
3. Failure to agree to the above will result in you taking action to protect yourself from further abuse by her.

2x4: you’re continuing to display weakness snd your WW knows this. This has been your MO for the last 11 years I’m assuming. Nothing will change, she will not change, unless you make demands. Until you’re ready to do that, snd follow through with potential separation snd D, you need to reconcile yourself to experiencing further pain.

Lastly, there is nothing more off putting to a wayward than showing weakness in the face of infidelity. Your inaction alone makes you you an attractive partner.

End of 2x4.

Ok, it sounds you never felt this was ongoing. Which is good. However, his recent text to your fiance said "if anything comes out it wasn't from me"? Doesn't that sound to you like there is more to the story? Or do you think that he is only referring to the naked photos? Does he already know that you know about the photos?

The last message I sent her told her that I'm not willing to continue with this lack of control and am stopping let her walk all over me.

This is words not action. She's laughing at this because she knows she can manipulate her way in this. You have to go cold, study and impliment the 180. Stop talking to her, find your anger, one of two things will happen, she will leave or she will beg for forgiveness. This will put the control back on you with actions not empty words.

It definitely didn't feel like it was ongoing. When it started there was a vast change in her personality and actions. A couple of months later she was acting normal again.

I'm unsure if that message means there is more to it or not. His ex works for the same company as them but in a nearby branch and I have been informed now that she is very opinionated and would have no problem telling everyone. So it could have just been about if people at work find out. I'm pretty sure a superior sending naked pictures is a sackable offence. It also could have been that he was saying its not his fault that I was asking questions. I only saw the conversation they had on WhatsApp and have no idea if he knows that I know everything I now do.

It definitely didn't feel like it was ongoing. When it started there was a vast change in her personality and actions. A couple of months later she was acting normal again.

That means nothing. My WH could be a complete prick to me, acting like he had one foot out the door and the next thing he'd be planning a family vacation. It's crazy making behavior and designed to keep a betrayed spouse second guessing themselves.

She was comforting him about family issues? Gee, what a considerate person she is.

She supposedly has issues about her body, admits to liking the ego kibbles when he complimented her, then says the photos were for you. If someone has body issues they're not taking nude selfies, quite the opposite. Someone comfortable in their own skin is going to do that.

Of course the version she's giving you is tamer than the mind movies you've had because she's watering it down. Again, cheaters lie to cover their ass. They will downplay everything that you can't prove and even when presented with proof they still will do it.

ACTIONS not words.

Have you told her about any of the requests you should have on your side? Written timeline? No contact? Are you willing to expect from yourself no intimacy (no sex) until you are absolutely sure you know what you need to know?

You are not forcing her into anything anymore than you are getting a grip on protecting yourself from further damage.

Have you been flirting with a female a few years ago? Have you restarted doing stuff that presents itself as red flags after red flags more recently? Have you engaged in naked photo sharing with another women? If the answers to these are NO, then you have the RIGHT to protect yourself and request she shows you she is a safe partner.

Please do listen to the amount of quality information you may gather here. It is validated upon tons and tons of similar experiences from us all.

If your partner does show willingness to comply with your requests you may have something to work with. If not, that is a sign in itself that something is really of.

Please do listen to what people mencion here. If you don't I'm afraid you might be in for a 18 wheeler semi truck head on colision without notice further down the road. I so wish I knew this comunity when the shit hit the fan on my side. Use the info provided wisely and to the best of your ability. PROTECT yourself from further pain.

Use ACTIONS not words. I can't stress enough how important this aspect his.

[This message edited by justanotherperson at 6:03 AM, Sunday, October 30th]

This guy was her boss. Hmmmm……

They no longer speak or have contact. Hmmmmm…….

If you think boundaries are "controlling" then there isn’t much more to say here. If you believe standing up for yourself is controlling then there are more important issues that need to be addressed here.

After my H’s last affair I told him I had no other choice but to D him. I wasn’t going to remain married to a liar and cheater. He begged me to R. I initially declined but finally decided to give it a chance.

I didn’t set boundaries but it was up to him to make changes. Otherwise we were headed for a D. And that would prove to me he respected me and vowed to put my feelings first at times. Because I was no longer a doormat and I was no longer going to allow certain behaviors to continue.

You will have a hard time healing if you don’t change and if your cheating spouse doesn’t change. You cannot go back to the same marriage because that marriage will no longer work for you.