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I am so sorry you are here under these circumstances RockHound.

What the others said already. Your WW is still thinking primarily of HERSELF i.e., *her* life getting back to normal. Her comment about how she thought your relationship would be strong enough to handle her wayward behavior....WTF. What about YOU and your need to be safe in your marriage. A very telling remark on her end, just not in the way she likely intended.

Her trying to pass off her recent actions due to her being out of sorts...that is just another side of 'cover her ass' mode. This includes trying to blame her conscious decisions to betray you on the Mental Health Bogeyman. Whether she realizes this or not, she is trying to push agency for her actions away from herself and her conscious decision-making, and onto some sort of sickness or something.

And to add, there is a tendency on our parts to try to rugsweep this. Hey a bomb was dropped into your life. It is entirely natural to wish this all to go away. But what the others said--you do NOT have the full truth right now.

You came to the right place...

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:31 AM, Friday, September 30th]

Once again thank you to everyone for reaching out. Giving your ear and advice is priceless during this dark time. Lot's of insight.
Yesterday and today I put some serious pressure on her which made me feel much better about myself and the situation. My intense interrogation really broke her down. She provided me with a detailed timeline of both A's which matched text(not actual content) and phone logs. She also agreed to a poly with no resistance. I do realize a lot of WS's will agree initially, but I seriously expected her to resist and bitch about not trusting her word. I had already been asking for the actual text threads and she was against it because she was very embarrassed about being a dirty little phone slut behind my back. She insisted that it would not make things better and hurt me more if I were to read the phone sex. After more intense pressure and putting D on the table she broke further and agreed to whatever I wanted in order to prove to me that she was completely forthcoming in the timelines. She has completely surrendered her phone for me to do what I wish. I am in the tech industry and she knows the info can be pulled. I do have to agree with her though...I don't think I want to read my W being a phone slut with other men using the same images that she was also sending me. I can already imagine what was said. She also divulged other details and thoughts about the A's which she knew would upset me more. She didnt have to mention them but she did. She never once looked away from my eyes as she cried while I grilled her. I must say that I saw a glimmer of light after breaking her spirit and watching her fall to pieces and giving me full access to what ever I wanted to prove her honesty about the non-physical aspect of the A's.
I also combed through her entire laptop and emails and did not find anything incriminating. What I did find though, is a document where she's been writing for the past 3 years detailing her depression and anxiety due to my lack of satisfying her emotionally. At one point last year she was ready to walk. She did tell me repeatedly over and over again during this time period that she was lonely and felt severely neglected and left out. I would always tell her I would do better but obviously never did. I know that this is not an excuse and she knows it too. She seems to be very remorseful and feels that she ruined both of our lives and her character and has fully submitted to my needs to satisfy my questioning. Some of you may still think otherwise but as of know I feel fairly confident that no physical activity occurred. Maybe I'm wrong. As of now I will let the poly hang over her head for a few days to apply more pressure to see if she reveals anything else. As much as I still hurt, I am not sadistic. I still love her and would never do anything to inflict undue stress on her. She seems very fragile since this extreme interrogation.
Thoughts and advice are still welcomed.

Dear RockHound

I think you are doing things correctly and sincerely hope she is telling the truth. With the full truth it is possible to forgive and R (reconcile).

Finding the ugly truth in her phone will be the first step, I am glad to hear she has given you access to her devices.

Polygraph and contacting the OMs and then SOs should still be high on the priority list.

I hope you two can get through this and find a full life.

Did she meet someone in the park mentioned in the first post? Did she actually meet the APs?

Respectfully
Organic

Good work. It's a tough call between letting the text messages stay deleted or trying to restore them if you think you shouldn't read them. They may very well show more than she revealed. You could try to recover them and then save their content for a later decision about reading through them. Then you have the option.

What did she say about the 20 minutes at the park? Did her explanation make sense?

Remember that the majority of cases of infidelity have wayward spouses lying and offering up trickle truth; so much so that it has become standard advice to not accept the first or even second version of events given. Additional digging, challenging anything that doesn't make sense (stopping at a park) and a scheduled polygraph can all help. You did well so far but the sad fact is she may still be lying. Giving just some of the truth to make a BS feel like they know everything is a standard tactic used by a whole lot of WW. Of course, she may have confessed everything at this point but odds might be 50/50 she hasn't.

As far as you ignoring her earlier pleas for more connection, I'm glad you are taking accountability for your lack of action. It doesn't excuse her sexting. But at the same time, you need to own it. If she asked you persistently and was turned down then her other option was to walk out on you, which she should have done instead of what she chose to do. But that shouldn't have been necessary and is a hard step to take for most people.

Look I get the conflict. On one hand you've bever stopped loving her. Yet at the same time her behavior shows she did not feel the same way. It sucks. BTDT got that T-shirt.

At the same time her thinking was and has been flawed. She needs to talk to an IC. It would not hurt you either to have a neutral 3rd party to help you sort things out.

Interrogating her runs the risk of re-enforcing her deceitful behavior. She likes to spend time in her fantasy yet is cognizant of the fact that her real life might change dramatically.

Again, ask her to pretend it was you having an A. What would she do? I would specifically bring up her comment about the M being strong enough to endure then ask her what if she is wrong?

Her actions are the only thing you can go by right now. Words written or spoken can be lies to further her selfish goals (Keeping everything as it was).

Your wife told herself a lot of things that helped alleviate her guilt. She had guilt because she knew it was wrong. She has had three years of creating her version of reality. Unfortunately one way to get her to see how deluded she has been is to confront those ideas head on. Ideally an IC would help her get there, but it is going to hard not to challenge her at times.

That being said. . .You have to focus on you brother. She has issues, but unfortunately you do too now. I think seeing an IC would be the best possible thing. I know it helped me endure the earlier parts of my journey. . .and the later too.

I get that it isn't for everyone, I used to think like that too, but I can't argue with how helpful it was/is to me to have an objective person who was always on my side even when I was not on my own side. IC was life changing for me. We all have attitudes formed from past hurts that need to be dealt with so the new hurts don't get compounded with new ones.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 3:26 PM, Friday, September 30th]

We tend to bring out the suggestion to poly like it was some catch-all solution.
Be warned – the poly is definitely a strong tool and something I often recommend, but to be effective you need to understand what it is and what it isn’t and it needs to have a specific purpose.

First of all – contrary to belief – the poly does not give you the truth.
What it does is give you a very strong indication of if your wife is being honest. Truth and honesty don’t have to go hand-in-hand.
Like if your wife truly believed 2+2=5 she would pass a poly with flying colors if she gave that answer.
Same if she doesn’t consider petting or fondling as "sex". Or if she doesn’t remember that sixth time she met OM and only thinks she met him five times. She would possibly pass a poly because your definition of "sex" isn’t hers, and your forensic research might prove six encounters, but she honestly recalls five or thinks meeting in the hallway for 2 minutes doesn’t count.

It gives you the truth as she sees it.

This doesn’t mean she can fabricate truth. IF she remembers six encounters she cant make herself belief there were only five. She cant make herself belief, but there can be facts she’s mixed up and/or uncertain of that she does belief.

Like the 5- or 6-times meeting OM. If you have access to evidence via chat-logs, trackers or third party that indicates six meetings you might be wrong. It might have been 5 times. Therefore, she is being truthful. If you have verified evidence that it was six times, but she claims 5 it could be because a) she’s forgotten the sixth time or b) she’s lying. A poly would pass her on a, but fail her on b.

This is why a good operator spends time making sure everyone is on board with definitions. What is "other man", what is "sex", what is "inappropriate touching", what is "seen" or "meet" or "been with". The questions are then based on using the defined terms and concepts. The operator is IMHO the key to a successful polygraph.
Go for someone that is doing work for the local police, the judicial system and so on. They cost more than the "Truth-or-Dare" shingles depending on walk-in-traffic.

OK – So now I hope you understand it wont get you the truth. What it will get you is if your wife is being honest.

The truth is so so very important. Right now learning that she had sex with OM will definitely hurt, but that hurt pales to the hurt of discovering that fact six months from now. Even keeping that secret can prevent her from truly committing to the marriage. This is a message you both need to understand: The absolute truth will hurt, but it’s necessary to move on.

What this means is that when she does the poly it could/should define a watershed moment where you know she’s being honest, or she’s hiding something.
If you have laid out the importance of the truth BEFORE the poly and how there is no way you two can move on with secrets… by failing she’s told you she doesn’t believe you, she thinks she can control the process and that she doesn’t get the gravity of the situation. For me that would all be reasons to not believe reconciliation is possible.

This is so important! She has to realize she has this ONE chance.

If she passes… Well… that does mean that if we – the BS – want to reconcile we need to believe what we have. We are still allowed to ask, but need to start understanding why we ask, rather than use questions as a tool to remain in misery and control.

OK – You mention your WW notes on distancing. Take them seriously. You place a lot of blame or reasoning for the affair on yourself. Well… your wife could have given you an ultimatum or even divorced. The decision to have an affair is like if she put a shotgun shell through your head because of bad breath. But you need to take her emotions seriously…
I’m busy. I have a hectic life. But my wife and I have had a rule to always make some time for us. Doesn’t have to be a movie and dinner. It can be as simple as both of us taking the dog for his evening walk. Or just deciding to go to bed early and just reading, snuggling and talking. Find time for her, because next time she might not seek solace with random men.

So sorry youre facing this. Its an awful revelation.

Youve done well plowing through the early days of this crap and have received tremendous input. I hope you will follow through with the text recovery, timeline, and polygraph. The reason? If you decide to consider reconciliation, you need to know, to the best of your ability to dig (and her willingness to be forthcoming), just who you will be making this attempt with (again, assuming she is truly remorseful and willing)? Every bit of truth you get now, may well save you greater pain down the road (ask me how I know).

As to not cultivating the relationship, it may be a reason she felt neglected but is no excuse to start her affairs. Its like "swatting" a wasp with a grenade.

Strength, clarity and healing to you.

Rock: Probably wont like hearing my opinion, but I went through a similar situation years ago. Worked my ass off at my self-employed job, thinking that getting ahead was what I should be doing. I completetly neglected my wife and she told me several times we needed to spend more time together. I didn't listen. She left and sought comfort from another man and eventually with other men. This was before cell phones, On Star, GPS tracking, etc.

You're lucky you put a notification on your OnStar; otherwise, you might not have ever found out until she completely moved on.

I tell you this because I know you're hurting and embarassed. Yes, there isn't a good excuse for what she did, but she did try to tell you. I can't advise you on what to do from here forward, but my sense is that you should back off if you want to keep her. If you continue to criminalize her behavior, she'll give up on you.

Just thought you needed to hear an alternate view

Not often, but sometimes, all things will be screaming physical affair, but the WS denies, and they are telling the truth. This could be one of those situations. I would consider to press on with the phone retrieval, but their is a good chance you dodged a bullet. The fact she recognized the path she was on and wanted help through counseling is a very good sign.

It’s up to you whether you want to read the messages. They will hurt, but in the end it’s just words. I’m thinking you chance of stabilizing the marriage is very good.

She said this:

She said that "in her own F'd up logic" that she knew that our relationship was strong enough to over come this "teenage crush/sexting fantasy" and that's why she never let it go any further.

But also wrote this:

What I did find though, is a document where she's been writing for the past 3 years detailing her depression and anxiety due to my lack of satisfying her emotionally. At one point last year she was ready to walk.

Recover the text messages and read them. I had a chance with my WW to read her texts with her AP and didn’t. I regret that decision tremendously. I am nearly 5 years out from the A and still not at peace.

Just because she told you in the past that she felt neglected does not justify an affair. It’s not a reason to cheat. It’s not an excuse that she’s so lonely she can have an affair to fill the void.

Nope.

Please shut that down.

My H used the excuse "we were disconnected". Really?! He traveled the world for his job. I was running the house, managing renovations, volunteering, working AND alone 3-5 nights a week. I never complained. I thought we were a team.

He was disconnected b/c he turned to other people first for his "emotional connections". I would hear him on the phone telling a friend a funny story and I would think, "I wonder why he didn’t share that story with me". Hmmm……

I now know he was getting his emotional connection from others and never liked to me for the same level of support. And then tried to blame ME for his affair.

Nope. I shut that down after hearing it for a few months. First I told him I was not disconnected and second, it’s not an excuse for an affair.

Please inform your wife that she had other options to choose from if she was so lonely and unhappy.

The1stWife just laid it out for you. Feeling disconnected is no excuse for pulling the pin on a grenade and lobbing it into your marriage. Its a heinous thing to do. I would not be at all shocked if it was physical. You need to know.

Look, if the marriage was in dire straights, she could have done any one of a number of things to sound the alarm, to tell you your marriage was on life support, that she was getting desperate for connection and intimacy with you. That something had to give. Hell, she could have texted those things to you since shes such an avid texter. She could have left you written notes. She could have warned you that if things didnt change, she may not be around much longer.

Its brass tacks time. Im returning to this in the hope that you dont try to rush past this or minimize anything. Id go so far as to say your future happiness is at stake.

Dig. Find out all you can. Youve been encouraged multiple times by people whove been there to recover those texts, get a timeline and follow up with a polygraph. Youve also been warned that undiscovered/ignore truths have an exponentially larger impact when they boomerang. Please heed those warnings.

I hope you arent one of the faithful but betrayed spouses that return here months or years later saying things like, "Im back and I should have listened."

Again, youve done well to this point. Dont let up now.

Strength, healing and clarity to you sir.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 3:58 PM, Sunday, October 2nd]

How are you doing today Rockhound?

Hope you're doing ok RockHound.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:46 PM, Friday, October 7th]

Numb&dumb and DobleTraicion thanks for checking in. I did some more interrogating and investigating and was able to get camera footage from the park. Everything shes said about the park encounter was truthful. I know this doesn't mean it didnt happen but I also restored her cell phone from a backup and did not find any evidence of any physical sexual encounters. No poly yet either. She has started counseling and it has really ripped her open. She is very unstable and would not be surprised if they recommend in patient therapy. She has been battling depression and PTSD from a violent childhood for many years and have seen it and been by her side the whole time during her past counseling. Then there is the compounded depression from my lack of attention over the past couple of years. I know its no justification for what she did but I also know that depression can make people do awful things to their family. I'm slowly feeling a bit better but my heart is starting to turn to stone. Taking it one day at a time. Closely watching her moves and actions. Not sure how much longer I can live like this, hovering and monitoring. It makes me very uneasy and sick to my stomach. I don't think I will ever be the same again.

Everyone here is trying to get you to understand that you did not cause her to cheat. You were told that you need to start paying attention to her as your wife and a beloved person. That’s on you but the cheating is not.

Please get her into EMDR therapy. It’s fairly short term. Sometimes it’s weeks but not often for more than just a few months. It is a really interesting way of pulling up horrible childhood memories. Most people don’t realize that what they respond to as adults is coming right from that child still buried inside them. If you had a happy contented childhood you don’t have any left over mess that’s hidden away. If you’ve had a horrible childhood that’s what runs your life and you have no concept. It is that hidden. Every action and reaction is run by a child inside. It sounds new ages but it is not, it’s based on fact and a lot of research.

Depression doesn’t make you cheat.

Nor does alcoholism.

Nor does addiction.

Nor does a violent childhood.

Nor does a cheating parent.

Broken insecure selfish people cheat. Young or old or thin or gorgeous or 6 pack abs or funniest person you know — I think you get the point that NONE of this has anything to do with cheating.

You could have been home 7 nights a week. It probably would not have made a difference. Internally she gave herself permission to cheat based in her flawed logic. Her conjuring up excuses.

She could have told you how she felt. She could have gotten some help or you both went to marriage counseling etc.

point is — cheating is a choice. Period.

I don't think I will ever be the same again

.

That much I can tell is true. However change isn't always a bad thing. A lot of us thst have survived a similar situation have changed, but for the better.

It takes time and possibly a good IC to help, but I love myself today in a way that I never did before. I am patient. I don't sweat the small stuff anymore and I am a better husband and father.

It is easy to say that is because of my W's A. It is not. I made choices that got me here and I did things that helped me get there.

Look at the stage you are at there is a lot of wishing the past were different. I used to spend time envisioning a different life and a different wife with less emotional damage in her past.

The brutal truth is that the past cannot be changed. You can look backward to obtain information to help you in the present, but really the only choice is to move forward. That might be a D and a new single life or it might mean you stick around while your W fixes herself and becomes a fully authentic partner in life. Patience is required, but your W also has to rise to the occaision and do the very hard work on addressing the broken oarts of her that made having an A an acceptable choice.

That is why working on yourself (like you are doing) helps you to figure out what you want and gives you the skills to carry that plan out.

I will be honest. It was a painful ride, but I am so much better equipped to deal with life challenges.

I am not thankful for how I got here, but I am proud of what I accomplished. I also know that if my W ever choose to cheat on me again I would D and be fine. No more chances for my W and she knows that would be the outcome to any deception on that same level (Even outside infidelity).

So I am different than I was, but going back to being that person again isn't an option. I for one am proud of myself and reap the benefits of a new me daily.

It is early for you. It hurts. I am really sorry for what you are going through. I just want to point out that change isn't always bad. It can good, great even. It is something you have to work towards and that is indepedent of whatever your W chooses to do.

My W has significant mental issues too. So I do empathsize. I just don't want you to lose hope. Your M story might end, but yours shouldn't.

Start looking out for number one. Things begin to fall into place when you start investing in yourself again.

Even if you divorce I hope she gets some intense therapy to pull those childhood memories up out of her subconscious so that it takes away their sting. Talk therapy is for people who recognize what their issues but so many people don’t know because those memories are so hidden from them. It is never a waste of time or money.

UPDATE:

Good morning everyone. My days are getting better. I started to see a counselor and my doctor put me on some meds to help my anxiety. Both have seemed to help somewhat. I'm not too thrilled with the counselor though. I still have trouble wondering what she is doing while I am away from the house. I don't think that will every go away.
I did more digging and was able to retrieve all the messages from my WW's phone. Although it was very hard and sickening to read and see what was going on it was a huge relief to finally get the closure of knowing exactly what was happening. As she had been saying all along...no physical sexual contact was happening. As a matter of fact when she first started engaging with these other men she actually gave them rules of engagement which included no kissing, no sex, no sexual contact. When they would push for more she would continue to remind them of the rules and that this was strictly fantasy roles. Through out their conversations, in between the flirting and photos she had become very troubled and confused. She would cry to them about how she felt bad about what she was doing. The two men and her never talked bad about me. They would sometimes even give her advice on how to fix what was broken between us. The men would console her and try to break it off. She would also try and break it off but eventually continue shortly after. Later in the weeks they would argue and fight off and on about what was happening but would still continue the conversations. She was reeling about how she had lost herself and her integrity and could not believe what she started. It was very hard to read how she was so conflicted and going back and forth from feeling like a shitty wife yet turning around the next day and blowing kissy emoticons and continuing to send pics. She definitely has some serious issues going on in her head that need to be dealt with.
I will be going on a vacation by myself soon. Hopefully that will help me feel better. I definitely need to get away and let her feel some separation.
That's all I have for now. I will keep you all updated as my days continue to come and go.