SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

When can six years feel like a lifetime?

We all know that answer.

For me, my reality was obliterated when my wife finally told me about her infidelity years before. I’ve been asked a few times if my life would be better if she kept to her plan of taking her secret with her to the grave. My response is absolutely not.

I may hate that infidelity happened, but I much prefer knowing what my reality was and is, I always prefer as much truth as I can find.

The truth is, it still helps to stop by SI now and again to see if my experience and recovery helps anyone else on their path. It also helps once a year to take stock and figure out where I am now, compared to the mess I was when I first found this forum.

I tend to start off with the reminder that I’m not selling a result.

If you’re new here or a long time member, I don’t care whether you R, D, or move into a cave somewhere — I only care that we all recover from this trauma as well as possible.

My story is on my profile, and repeating details at this point, for me, is a waste of space. A long term A is as horrible as it gets, and getting a confession long after the fact doesn’t make it any easier.

All that said, some of the life changes and lessons are good.

Blind trust was never a good thing. Keeping secrets, also, not so good.

The silver linings are, that once I got my bearings, got on my feet, realized my full value — it allowed me to choose to reset my life how I wanted. I do that every single day I wake up, I choose my life, my path going forward.

I’m surprised as anyone at my choice to stay. The way I grew up, someone cheats, move the fuck on and be done with it.

If you’re cheated on, ever, however it happens, your spouse is NOT owed a last chance.

Read that line above again.

There is nothing romantic about deciding to stay. It’s brutally uphill hard work that takes the full 2-5 years SI members warned me about in advance.

Rebuilding a relationship is absolutely possible, but it takes two people with a relentless effort to get there.

It’s fairly obvious why R is so hard.

One person has been treated as if they didn’t exist and the other made dozens of purposeful, cruel and selfish decisions that destroyed the existing monogamous relationship.

In the first two years post discovery, I learned loving someone was never enough.

If I was going to stay, I needed a relationship worth staying for.

The old foundation of our marriage failed, so if I was going to rebuild from the ground up, I set the parameters of what any relationship I am in now should look like.

Those parameters started with no more filters - I say what’s on my mind. Good, bad or indifferent. I ask the questions I need to ask and no more of the games people play around the other — the saying what people want to hear, or bad trades, horrible compromises, the lies, big and small to go along and get along.

I get to be me.

It sounds obvious, but not always the case as I went through life.

That should have been the case all along. However, the way society talks about giving up parts of yourself in order to make things work in marriage — is wrong. Marriage shouldn’t be a series of sacrifices and asking permission to feel and say and do what we want.

Marriage is never the CAUSE of infidelity. Never.

Infidelity is a choice, a series of choices — that never help a relationship.

All relationships struggle, it’s how we decide to attack that struggle that makes the difference. Why doesn’t everyone cheat when unhappy? Because some of us don’t want to HURT our spouse, or we’re simply honoring the promises we made.

All that said, our marriage was a series of bad compromises, bad trades, sacrifices and walking on egg shells to get through a day. Loving each other wasn’t enough. None of that is an excuse for what my wife did. Our past simply illuminated some of the other changes we needed to make, once I chose to stay.

Once I offered the gift of R, the aim was to form a relationship worthy of both of us.

Some folks seem to define R as staying with their spouse, and that’s it. The work seems to be to tolerate the person who hurt us and hope they don’t make the same choices again.

That’s staying married, it ain’t reconciliation to me.

I understand that finding a way back to a level of trust and vulnerability is very difficult. Based on my reading hundreds of stories here, it seems very few R end up where I am.

I’m happy. My wife is happy.

It took 2.5 to 3 years just to be sure the relationship we wanted was even possible. So many conversations about the work. I had to get my swagger back and then take a second leap of faith I never thought I would make. My wife, is a little behind on getting her full swagger back (as in working on trying to forgive herself for her poor choices), but she definitely is all in on the leap of faith.

We have good days, bad days, great days and sad days, but we’re truly kind to the other. We are giving to the other, we here for the other and finding ways to build on the new connection every single day.

I would also add that I used to be of the mindset that the old M was dead, and this was a new deal, new M. Part of that is still true for me, we are working on the newer us, but I also find our days pre-A had some moments worth holding to as well that form a bit of a bridge from the old M to where we are now. Nothing is all bad or all good, and most humans are not all good or ALL bad, we’re a sum of both.

How do I know it will never happen again?

I absolutely don’t know.

What I do know is my wife, and the current connection we work on everyday, allows us to be more honest than ever before. My wife hates the pain she caused, the pain she can still see on my face from time to time. It helps that she cares about that pain and helps me heal the relationship.

I also 100 percent trust myself.

I know what the lies sound like, what the actions look like, and I learn pretty quick.

The biggest part is we spent nearly two years together everyday when the world was in varied degrees of shutdown. We learned a lot about who we were, who we are and how we want this relationship to be now.

Ultimately, I can’t change a damn thing about the past.

I only get to choose how I respond to adversity.

This particular adversity knocked me on my ass. It took a long time to gain the strength to properly respond to it, beyond the trauma and the pain and depression that comes with it.

All I can say about my experiences, is I feel great about the path I chose.

To get there, I had to feel great about myself, whether I stayed married or not. That was the work I had to do. To know that my wife’s lowest point and her shitty choices don’t reflect on me in any way. Easier said than understood, infidelity is as personal as it gets, and yet, it is NOT because of who we are or what we did.

Choose YOU first. Figure out what you want, and aim for it.

If you do choose R, it only works if your spouse wants it as much as you do.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 7:04 PM, Monday, June 6th]

I have to say that your story, and possibly a few others have changed my thinking on how a marriage could actually survive and possibly be better after infidelity. I came he believing that no marriage could. While it is still hard to fathom, your story proves my thinking wrong. For me the pain and anger blinded me, really still does, so while in my Neanderthal brain I say it can’t be, there is too many stories that disprove my thoughts.

I can’t imagine how you could forgive, but am in awe of it anyway. Congratulations to both of you for working it out. I hope the rest of your story is as good as what you both have accomplished so far after the betrayal.

Do you still discuss the infidelity now? Do you feel, and does she feel you are both equal partners? I think for me that was a huge sticking point.

Anyway, congratulations.again You are a great example for this site that for some there is a path to a fulfilling marriage after infidelity.

As usual...I LOVE YOUR POST !!!

It's funny how things evolve when we heal isn't it? I used to think our old M was dead too. Then I started thinking of our M as a house that was burned down to the foundation. The foundation we started with was GOOD...and we built up from there . For people as old as me...I will take from the six million dollar man...we could make our M bigger...stronger...faster! Well...not faster because we are older !!! Now I call it our M version number 2...or Mv2.o !!!

THANK YOU for coming on here and telling your truth Dear Sir !!!

Hey Waited -

Thanks for the kind words.

I always thought you and I had a very similar take on infidelity. Every post you’ve ever written on your pain and your journey were things I totally identified with, and I nearly did NOT get beyond my pain and anger.

It is well earned pain and anger, no reason any of us SHOULD try and get around that.

I had to work at it to process it all.

Do you still discuss the infidelity now?

Yes. Not nearly as much as each year goes by. But movies, or shows, or someone in the extended family where the topic happens, we will talk about it. She always checks on potential triggers and flashbacks. Once in a while, something about the A will jump into my brain and I will flat out ask about it if I think I still want to know.

In six years, she has answered every question and never deflects or blames anyone but herself. That helps.

Do you feel, and does she feel you are both equal partners?

We’re getting there. I don’t want a lopsided relationship with one person lording over someone who feels bad about what they did. Our relationship started with two competitors pushing each other to be better people, to challenge each other, etc. We both know the A wasn’t something that we expected to be a part of our lives.

Truth is self-evident, all the history is a part of ‘us’ now, but I just don’t see her low point as her defining moment. She has done so much good for others and me, before and after the shit show years of the A. I see that good in her still.

I would say it’s fair she is still trying to repay a debt she can’t repay. It’s a nice sentiment, but feeling guilty until the end of time is no way to live. So, she is getting better at that every day and I am seeing more of that stronger version of her as we go along. As her strength returns, the stronger WE get.

Hi W2BHA!

Thanks, and thanks again for your kindness and support along the way.

It's funny how things evolve when we heal isn't it? I used to think our old M was dead too. Then I started thinking of our M as a house that was burned down to the foundation. The foundation we started with was GOOD...and we built up from there

It is interesting to me that as soon as I think I got it all figured out, I learn something new!

A full reset or rebuild of the foundation is a unique opportunity.

My wife and decided the only way to truly heal was to bring each other as much joy as possible.

We also utilize the Six Million Dollar Man tag line — which is funny you mentioned it.

We can rebuild it…

I always thought you and I had a very similar take on infidelity.

I’m not so sure of this, but I wish it were the case. Like I said, in my Neanderthal thinking infidelity is a hard and fast deal breaker. I could never get past the thinking that it was, even with her doing everything possible, a punishable offense. Even after the I got past the initial anger anger, the punishment was more subtle in just never treating her like an equal partner. Not treating her horribly like some stories here, but my being "cordial" was probably equally damaging to her. That’s why I asked the question about being equal partners.

I think you were able to to digest what happened, felt the pain, then released it for the greater good of the marriage. This is what I find so amazing and what you should be proud of. Not many can do this. I think that’s why you are still married and actually happy.

Like I said, in my Neanderthal thinking infidelity is a hard and fast deal breaker.

It is a hard fast deal breaker.

I did, somehow, find a way to make a new deal and eventually (and I do mean eventually) tie it back into the relationship overall.

Anyway, I’ve always at least understood and related to your observations along the way.

Glad to see the update, Old Wounds.
You've always been an inspiration to me and I've been lucky to be able to connect with you at times.
I'm nearing 5 years, but feel I'm on a little longer of a journey.
It's nice to not feel alone and know there are others like you who have weathered the storm.

I think we're all brothers and sisters under the skin, but there are differences at the margins. There are even differences between us on what's marginal and what's core.

For me, the important thing after being betrayed is recovering and making the best of what's left of one's life. That's R for some of us, D for some of us, and something else (M of convenience, S, whatever) for others. I do think recovering requires figuring out what the best one can do is and going for that rather than acting out of fear or acting to avoid pain, but that leaves a lot of room for variations.

It's always good to hear from you, Oldwounds. You pack a lot of wisdom into you words. Congrats on 6 years. I wish you many more years, each one better than the last.

Hey 78Monte -

Thanks for the kind words.

I hope you’ve been able to heal some along the way.

I'm nearing 5 years, but feel I'm on a little longer of a journey.

It is a long journey for sure (and weathered is a good word to describe it, I feel quite weathered!).

I think once my wife and I realized there is no place to spike the ball at the ‘end’ of R, we’re okay with the idea working on healing and building is going to take the rest of our days. Always a bit better, but we still have to invest back into this rebuild.

For me, the important thing after being betrayed is recovering and making the best of what's left of one's life.

Sisoon - As usual, you’re far more succinct than I am.

A much fast way to boil away my long winded update.

You mentioned fear or pain avoidance, for me, I had to tackle that head on, from the start.

I was fortunate that some of the fear factors weren’t part of my decision.

My sons were grown and we’ve worked hard enough and long enough that finances fit whatever path I chose.

Without money, kids, career or location as obstacles, I was able to make the call based on what I really wanted.

OW, what a great post. You make some salient statements that I think few people ever really consider. That should be a sticky for all to see.

What a great update Oldwounds!

Congratulations to both of you for going through a process together that I believe is one of the hardest in life. It requires so much growth and challenging so many aspects of life as you knew it prior to infidelity.

I totally agree with your view on R, true R is the one where you build a new life that excites both spouses, not just remaining married. Hence why I think the secret to it is what you so eloquently stated below:

To get there, I had to feel great about myself, whether I stayed married or not. That was the work I had to do. To know that my wife’s lowest point and her shitty choices don’t reflect on me in any way. Easier said than understood, infidelity is as personal as it gets, and yet, it is NOT because of who we are or what we did.

Choose YOU first. Figure out what you want, and aim for it.

If you do choose R, it only works if your spouse wants it as much as you do.

Once I figured that out and picked myself of the floor, dusted myself off and realised my value, the sky was the limit. And it actually reflects in all areas of life. The moment I "woke up" my (previously lukewarm) career took off, I live life to the fullest, I give out vibes that people tell me inspires them. I exercise, practice my hobbies, take time for myself, my life is less compromise and more what I want to do.

The last part is also key, without a willing participant in the WS role you cannot convince them to "get it". I see so many cases where the R requirements are so low and the WS still doesn’t want to provide the work. You cannot make a WS get it, truly get it.

Great post and great inspiration as always Oldwounds. I think you are right about R and rebuilding from something rather than zero.

but I also find our days pre-A had some moments worth holding to as well that form a bit of a bridge from the old M to where we are now

It is true that for the most part the M has to be rebuilt to R successfully and it is also true, at last for us, that we fell into some bad relationship habits that needed to be rectified and we did through the process of R. The new M while better in many ways from the old M, cannot exist without the history of the relationship prior to infidelity.

I get the sense that you and your W are truly good friends who love and respect each other save the awful time during infidelity. I don't know many folks who have walked through enough years of this thing we call life and have not a single regret. We all do things at times that teach us to never behave that way again. It sounds like your W is in that camp relative to her infidelity and good for you that she can see it, admit it and make amends for it with you.

I always felt your situation was one that I could hold up as an example for me and my WS. I saw that I didn't have to throw everything away provided we both did the work to heal and change in a way that could bring us back to each other. I saw that the pain and trauma didn't have to lead to an end but could lead to a new beginning. I understood, through your journey, that there is room for forgiveness AND clear boundaries that can bring a person to being whole again. And I also understood that there is room for love after infidelity with a changed view on self and couple attunement.

Thank you and congratulations.

Ultimately, I can’t change a damn thing about the past.

I only get to choose how I respond to adversity.

Realizing the reality of those words was my first step to accepting what happened and taking the steps on my own healing journey.

Along the way, Mrs. Cap finally figured out why "all in" matters. And that has made the difference this past year and a half.

Like you, I am fully awake to the fact that blind trust will never return (nor should it have been given in the first place). But some modicum of trust can come back. For those who decide to R, the question is "how much is enough?" That's a question to be answered on a personal level. There is no general high water mark for that.

Choose YOU first. Figure out what you want, and aim for it.

If you do choose R, it only works if your spouse wants it as much as you do.

For the people pleaser, THAT is the hardest part. Choosing what I want. Not what someone else chose. Not what friends X, Y, and Z think should be chosen. Heck, not even what our spouse wants us to choose.

It takes a long, hard look inside of each of us to determine what that is...and it's also OK to change our minds.

Glad to read your heart poured out again, my friend. Hope the travels are going well and you're staying out of radio range for those Birds. I can't listen to more than a couple of innings of the Northsiders before getting frustrated these days. That's why I listen mostly to the Rox...no dog in that fight.

Be well, my friend!

Luna10!

Once I figured that out and picked myself of the floor, dusted myself off and realised my value, the sky was the limit.

Not exactly an easy assignment to find our value, but it is a glorious day the moment that we do.

I exercise, practice my hobbies, take time for myself, my life is less compromise and more what I want to do.

Very, very nice. Luna, you badass you. You did NOT settle.

I tend to take it a step further — in that I don’t compromise.

Way back in the early days, when my wife and I went to an MC (who later told us he a BS), agreed with me that compromise, especially in M, is a dirty word.
One person takes, the other sacrifices something to get to a compromise. All of those takes and sacrifices add up. And it sounds a bit like semantics, but I willingly give, versus take from my wife if I know something is important to her and she does the same for me. Giving, instead of giving up. Of course conflicting ideas happen all the time, that’s what we humans do, generate different ideas than the other. In that case, we find a way to improve on those differences or take turns giving to each other.

So glad you are doing well, I hope your healing continues!

ISSF-

SI looks pretty sharp these days with you jumping in there as a Guide!

Thanks a bunch for the kind words.

The new M while better in many ways from the old M, cannot exist without the history of the relationship prior to infidelity.

I think you said it better than me here. Once my wife and I realized this and got to that point, it was a beautiful moment — to be able to find a line through the horror show and connect to special moments from the past worthy of holding on to.

I get the sense that you and your W are truly good friends who love and respect each other save the awful time during infidelity.

Your sense is spot on. We started off our relationship, before marriage as absolute best friends, able to tell the other anything and everything that was floating in our brains. That element was lost prior to my wife’s string of bad decisions. Six years into this rebuild thing, it is safe to say we have reached that level again. Despite the pain caused, she’s my absolute best friend on the planet.

I always felt your situation was one that I could hold up as an example for me and my WS. I saw that I didn't have to throw everything away provided we both did the work to heal and change in a way that could bring us back to each other. I saw that the pain and trauma didn't have to lead to an end but could lead to a new beginning. I understood, through your journey, that there is room for forgiveness AND clear boundaries that can bring a person to being whole again. And I also understood that there is room for love after infidelity with a changed view on self and couple attunement.

Well, your story, your journey helped inspire me as well. Sometimes I think my recovery sounds like a linear wonderland, but it wasn’t. Lots and lots of progress followed by substantial setbacks. The changes our spouses need to make to be better partners don’t always happen easily. That said, I am very happy you and yours are doing well!

Cap -

Thank you Sir.

I’m more glad that your journey is moving a bit closer to how you want it to go.

It takes a long, hard look inside of each of us to determine what that is...and it's also OK to change our minds.

Absolutely! There is great comfort in KNOWING I can change direction at any time and be just fine.

Glad to read your heart poured out again, my friend. Hope the travels are going well and you're staying out of radio range for those Birds. I can't listen to more than a couple of innings of the Northsiders before getting frustrated these days. That's why I listen mostly to the Rox...no dog in that fight.

Actually, the O’s are starting to call up some of those talented kids off the farm, and their rebuild has begun in earnest (finally). I will see them visit the Mariners at the end of June. The winning total will still be unpleasant at best, but they are more fun to watch now. The Rox seem to be headed in the wrong direction, I think their run differential is somehow worse than the O’s. But SOME baseball is WAY better than none!

Take good care Cap!

Hey Thatbpguy -

You make some salient statements that I think few people ever really consider. That should be a sticky for all to see.

Kind of you to say, but I think the aspect that makes SI so valuable is the number of different stories and experiences all of the members share that get us to the other side of infidelity. Your successful new beginning after a D is also an inspiring path forward. I hope you’re doing well.

Hello Oldwounds

I haven't posted on SI other than a brief foray into the Just Found Out forum shortly after my D Day.

But I read here all the time. Your story has resonated with me for a number of reasons.

I'd like you to know how much your posts have helped me.

They have helped me frame what I want from reconciliation, what I want from my wife, but more importantly, what I want FOR me.

I think your words have made a miserably difficult journey, a little less difficult for me.

And I just wanted to thank you for that.