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My Wife Had an Intense, Highly Deceptive Affair, Part II

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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 1:43 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

Wow, a lot of posts. So let me try to address everything succinctly.

As I’ve mentioned in the past, I use this board as a therapeutic writing outlet. So when I have the time, I come here and write whatever is top of mind and it greatly helps me sort it out. Often reading the replies helps me sort it out more quickly or more comprehensively.

Over the last couple of weeks, I’ve been entirely devoid of free time and haven’t posted as much—I suspect that’s a good thing as I’ve allowed all my regular, real world activities to gradually creep back in so I’m not thinking about the affair 24/7 (I also had an absurd two weeks at work post-Italy).

My last post, regarding my fetish, was nothing more than my stream-of-conscience thoughts of the moment. I have no intention of divorcing my wife because she is uncomfortable with my sexual kinks. It was a point of frustration that she was able to live out her sexual fantasies and was now using them as an excuse for me to never live out mine. It felt unfair and I was frustrated by it—but as Hellfire mentioned a few days ago, my response simply needs to be to get over it. I’m an adult and life isn’t fair—so that’s what I did. I’m over it.

I wish I wrote that all days ago to save the deluge of comments on the topic, and for that, I apologize.

**

I am writing this morning on an entirely different topic. We had a bad night for the first time in weeks and I want to write it out and examine it a bit. As always, I will try to provide all the context that lead up to it—while I think what happened is very straight-forward, I’m open to the idea that I’m missing something.

On Wednesday, I had IC. I used it to develop some thoughts about my current space right now in my marriage. I arrived at a big conclusion and then explored some additional thoughts from it—I then discussed these with my WW later that day and yesterday (Thursday).

1. What does marriage mean to my WW? It’s a lifelong commitment/contract for me that it clearly was not for my WW. That needs to be addressed for us to R—we need to have the same understanding of what M is.

2. An obligation to protect each other in our relationship. That’s the core of the issue of her badmouthing—she wasn’t protecting me. I would always have glowing words to say about her when she wasn’t around and she was one of those people shit talking her husband when he wasn’t around—I hate those people who talk down about other people all the time and I apparently married one. And that sucks. So seeing how she talks about other people in front of me will help determine how she is talking about me in front of other people.

3. A feeling that I would still be very uncomfortable around her parents. This one isn’t fleshed out yet as I’m still exploring it, but it’s been a big issue in the back of my mind for a long time. I have a strong sense that I would be very uncomfortable around her parents still and I recognize that is going to be a point of conflict—their annual trip down for Christmas has felt like a ticking time bomb for me. Days keep rolling passed and I’m not addressing it.

We went to MC and spent almost the entire time on point #1–the MC seized on it as very important and we explored it heavily, with her suggesting we write new vows for each other to potentially use in the future. And those vows should define what our new relationship will be.

We left MC and everything seemed well and we went through rest of day. My sister and brother-in-law came over for dinner and we watched some TV together. They left and my WW and I watched some TV solo. I’ve been getting over a cold so at 9 p.m., I was considering going up, but my WW asked if we could watch another episode and we did.

We chatted for a bit during the show and she mentioned her dad had asked her if he and her mom could come visit us in Sept. for a couple of nights on their way to Europe for a vacation. I told my WW I needed time to think it over and she said it would be fine if I preferred they stay in a hotel. I said that seemed silly, but I just need time to process it-she quickly responded that it wouldn’t be silly at all and she would understand.

We then cuddled on the couch—she was wearing sex lingerie under her PJ pants and I spent the rest of the show with my hand roaming her body—she was being light and sexy about it.

At 10 p.m. we went upstairs and got into bed. She was showing me a bruise on the top of her butt/hip and I teasingly suggested I’d see it better if her pants weren’t on. I suggested we have sex, but she didn’t respond and she took her pants off and rolled over on her stomach/side. I began to gently kiss up and down her body, asking what she wanted—no response. I kept kissing and then asked again—no response.

So I took down the lingerie and began giving her oral sex from behind (sorry if this is too graphic for some, but I want to be *very* specific for clarity).

After a few minutes she began bucking her hips and I went faster. She then faked an orgasm—it was strange as it felt obviously performative and took me off guard.

So after her fake orgasm I sat up unsure what to make of it, but thinking we’d just have sex. She looked back at me and asked if I had cum (in my pants while giving her oral)—I told her no. She angrily blurted out, "Ugh, you’re so annoying."

Now, that’s not unfamiliar territory for me—it was our sex life for years and she knows how hurtful it is to me when she behaves that way. I calmly asked what was going on and why she faked an orgasm, to which she replied: "I fake my orgasms when I don’t want to have a real orgasm."

So I said ok, and I immediately disengaged. She asked if I still wanted to have sex, but obviously that was the last thing on my mind. I brushed my teeth and we turned off the lights.

I sat there upset for less than a minute. I recognized that if I left things as they were, I’d be up in a negative spiral for hours processing what just happened. So I went to re-engage to tell my WW how hurt I was feeling. She was sleeping—I’m not even sure how it’s physically possible, but she went from awake to snoring in less than 60 seconds.

So I waited a few minutes and collected my thoughts. I then decided to wake her up. She was out of it, so I told her to collect herself and that I was very upset and wanted to talk.

We had a 10 minute conversation and I was talking to the same child she always was—all the progress I’ve seen in her over the months was absent. She told me it was as simple as her not wanting to have sex because she was tired (she insisted on staying up to watch more TV) and not in the mood (she was wearing lingerie and seemingly giving green lights).

I recognized immediately that the entire thing didn’t make any sense, so rather than dwell on her seemingly insane behavior, I probed a bit to see what was actually bothering her. Didn’t take me long to stumble onto the issue of her parents. She denied it, but it was crystal clear that she was angry with me at the possibility of not wanting her parents to come visit.

I told her I just needed to process that further and I wasn’t placing an edict that they can never come visit again. I told her it was clear that she was upset over the issue with her parents and she held that anger and resentment and weaponized it against me during our sex life; something she has done our entire M.

She partially acknowledged that possibility, and then said she was hurt I didn’t even think her parents were important enough to bring up in MC. I told her that we didn’t even get through the discussion on first topic in the hour and ran out of time.

She then pivoted to how when my sister came over for dinner she didn’t say hello to her and how she has to deal with that. For starters, it was a lie, but further, it was such absurd whataboutism I recognized the conversation needed to end. She asked if she should go sleep downstairs and I told her that was a good idea.

We went to bed (midnight~) and at about 5 a.m. I felt her come back in our bed and go to sleep.

I woke up around 7 a.m. (and started reading all the responses in this thread) and her alarm woke her up at 7:30 a.m.—she got her bearings and immediately went into a full-throated apology. She was so sorry for how the conversation went and she was acting like a child instead of leading with love as she has been trying to do the last few months.

I listened to her, and it was like a hearing a greatest hits album. She became emotional for X and Y reasons and acted like a child and now she was deeply sorry for it. I felt so clearly like the physically abused woman listening to her husband tell her he loved her as she sat with a black eye.

I could not have cared any less about my WW’s emotions and excuses. She finished talking and asked what I was thinking—I paused and told her I was still processing my thoughts, but I could tell her what I know: that her behavior was selfish and cruel and I need to get out from under it.

And that’s where we left things. Which leads me to:

However, logic dictates that deep seated resentments and diminution of one’s spouse over many, many years, would not suddenly go away after a handful of IC and MC sessions. Theoretically, this should take many, many years of therapy to sort out.

So, is your WWs new found positive attitude towards sex with you this illogical sudden shift in her mindset about you, a fake it until you make it mindset, or purely a manipulation of you?

She’s a phony. It’s a mask and her mask slipped big time last night.

And I know what many of you will say: it’s not *all* a mask; she’s learning and getting better, etc. And that’s probably true, but to have no self-awareness of last night just blows my mind. For her to be that awful is something I can’t comprehend.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 2:19 PM, Friday, August 5th]

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748307
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 2:44 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

I listened to her, and it was like a hearing a greatest hits album. She became emotional for X and Y reasons and acted like a child and now she was deeply sorry for it. I felt so clearly like the physically abused woman listening to her husband tell her he loved her as she sat with a black eye.

I have a friend who was this woman when he was with a girlfriend who attempted to give him a blackeye when he embarrassed her in front of her friends by being too sick to clean up their apartment when they came over. Different kind of abuse, yes, but he gave her a year afterwards to get therapy and show him that she had changed enough for their relationship to continue. And much like your WW, she had intense ups and downs bringing him almost to the edge of calling it quits and then talking him back into another chance. This is very similar to what he said the day that he decided to end their relationship for good. He finally realized that everything she said after fucking it up again was just the same song and dance she always did meaning nothing really changed in all that time.

I don't know what this means for you and her but I completely agree with you that this doesn't look authentic. It's possible that she could become authentic at some point but that doesn't mean you should wait around patiently until it happens. Can you think of any times since DDay that she got angry at something you said or did and didn't deal with it passive aggressively as a means to get back at you for it?

posts: 5144   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8748324
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:01 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

she replied: "I fake my orgasms when I don’t want to have a real orgasm."

Just as she fakes the progress you think you're seeing. She pretends,so she gets what SHE wants.

I felt so clearly like the physically abused woman listening to her husband tell her he loved her as she sat with a black eye.

Because you ARE an abused spouse. She verbally and emotionally abuses you. It's quite clear.

She then pivoted to how when my sister came over for dinner she didn’t say hello to her and how she has to deal with that

Consequences. You said it was a lie (so she's still lying to you). But, even if it wasnt..your wife hurt you,and you,so if your sister isn't falling all over herself to be kind to your wife,it's because your sister knows your wife abused,and is continuing to abuse, you.

She’s a phony. It’s a mask and her mask slipped big time last night.

YES! So,ok,she apologizes after she's been horrible. At this point,she knows what she is doing,because she's been in IC,she's had many conversations with you,and because of MC. She isn't some spoiled brat responding because that's her fullback. She says the things she says because it's who she is. She is faking her way through this attempt at reconciliation.

You can't comprehend? A woman who is remorseful would,at this point, stop purposefully hurting her BH. A woman who loves you will never wear a mask.

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:04 PM, Friday, August 5th]

posts: 4495   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8748330
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 3:13 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

Can you think of any times since DDay that she got angry at something you said or did and didn't deal with it passive aggressively as a means to get back at you for it?

It's hard to know for sure. As best I can tell, when she's been faced with conflict, she's been far more measured and thoughtful in her responses these passed few weeks. She's had an attitude of *this isn't that big of a deal* instead of her usual hyper emotional responses/quick to respond illogically. It's seemed authentic, and quite honestly, it's been impressive. As best I can describe it, it seems like she's been learning how to be a real adult instead of a child driven by the whims of her emotional responses.

Now, has that been her faking it because she knows it's what I'm looking for? Possibly, but my better guess is that she is essentially a novice at the role and has very limited understanding of the tools at her disposal. Her behavior improved dramatically, but I can tell she doesn't fully understand the meaning behind it at times--if we ever go a layer down, she's quick to cite the book "Rising Strong" in an effort to use the author's words to describe how she is feeling/thinking. It's like if someone read the Wiki page on World War II and then tried to teach a college course on it--the lack of depth of knowledge would be exposed quickly.

I've noticed that come out in MC a lot--the MC will ask my WW to explain how she's feeling about X and my WW will quickly go to reference the book. The MC will cut her off and say, "No, how are you feeling..." and then my WW will struggle to put it into her own words. It's not knew to me--it's something you see often in arguments: a person parroting something they heard, without fully understanding the argument (like a viewer of cable news trying to discuss inflation).

But again, the question is whether or not she's faking it until she can figure it out or if she's manipulating me until she feels safe. I think it's the former--she genuinely seems out of her depth more than a mastermind. But even if I'm right in my assessment, I don't want to deal with the emotional abuse and I'm struggling to find a measured response. Things were going *very* well these last few weeks, so this development is really shitty.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748336
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 3:25 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

Consequences. You said it was a lie (so she's still lying to you). But, even if it wasnt..your wife hurt you,and you,so if your sister isn't falling all over herself to be kind to your wife,it's because your sister knows your wife abused,and is continuing to abuse, you.

My sister arrived; my WW was up in the bedroom still doing work; I was in my office working (near front door); kids were in other room. My sister and I moved into kitchen and I started cooking. About five minutes later my WW came downstairs and her and my sister greeted each other. It was fairly straight-forward.

Last night, my WW said that when my sister arrived, she didn't say hello to her. And it's strange because my WW wasn't even downstairs when my sister arrived. However, I don't think my WW entirely made up being affected by the interaction; it's just a peculiar lie.

But your latter point is what matters. If my sister was cold toward my WW, that's on my WW to deal with. If she was remorseful, she would understand that's her cross to bear. Instead, she saw the potential of me not wanting to be around her parents and looked to use my sister as a prop to attack me for that feeling. She wasn't interested in being empathetic to why/how I'm hurt by her parents still--she was defensive and counter-attacked.

YES! So,ok,she apologizes after she's been horrible. At this point,she knows what she is doing,because she's been in IC,she's had many conversations with you,and because of MC. She isn't some spoiled brat responding because that's her fullback. She says the things she says because it's who she is. She is faking her way through this attempt at reconciliation.

You can't comprehend? A woman who is remorseful would,at this point, stop purposefully hurting her BH. A woman who loves you will never wear a mask.

Well that's the issue--*is* she aware of how awful she is being in the moment? I don't think she is. I think she's utterly clueless and overwhelmed with emotions. She has an inability to be reasonable, rational, logical in those moments. All she knows is how she feels and her behavior is dictated by it. Again, it's the man who gets angry at his wife and slaps her because he doesn't know how else to communicate. He's not consciously thinking the best course of action is to hit his wife; he's just a weak man who can't control his emotions. And that's my WW--she's weak and can't control her emotions to think clearly.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748347
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 3:39 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

I should also have added, I think I can boil all of this down to her being upset by the parents issue and then spiraling in a variety of negative directions. The bad sexual experience and her callous words in the argument are all her handling that anger poorly--the results were just symptoms.

She needs to figure out a way (quickly) of handling her anger/frustration more positively or opening up to discuss it with me (or journaling it). She bottles it in and the result is disastrous every time.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748351
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HeartbreakInHawaii ( new member #80401) posted at 5:28 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

At 10 p.m. we went upstairs and got into bed. She was showing me a bruise on the top of her butt/hip and I teasingly suggested I’d see it better if her pants weren’t on. I suggested we have sex, but she didn’t respond and she took her pants off and rolled over on her stomach/side. I began to gently kiss up and down her body, asking what she wanted—no response. I kept kissing and then asked again—no response.


Repeated no response is not sexual consent/an enthusiastic green flag.

posts: 17   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2022   ·   location: Canada
id 8748405
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YankeeGal ( new member #78558) posted at 5:59 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

OMG, you and sex and YOUR needs. Quite obviously your and your wife are not sexually compatible, whether it has to do with your kink and the adult sacrifices you have to make because you can’t get it fulfilled, or it’s one of many other reasons, but at the end of the day no matter what your wife did, she doesn’t owe you sex. Your sexual needs are always at the forefront and you think by her being an enthusiastic partner, she’s proving that she’s giving you what she owes.
No doubt she screwed up by having an affair. And maybe she wants to stay married so as not to lose her lifestyle, but you’re never gonna really be able to see what real R is like until your sexual demands and your needing her to prove her desire for you takes some sort of break. She fakes orgasms because you’re demanding her to be sexual with you. This is all very sad for both of you.

[This message edited by YankeeGal at 6:02 PM, Friday, August 5th]

posts: 15   ·   registered: Mar. 24th, 2021   ·   location: California
id 8748407
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 6:02 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

Repeated no response is not sexual consent/an enthusiastic green flag.

I suppose that may have been unclear. I meant no verbal response. She smiled and took off her pants while I was kissing up and down her body during that timeframe. It was very light, fun and sexy.

I pointed out the no response to say that she neither indicated what she wanted sexually nor indicated that she wasn't interested in sex. I was relying entirely on non-verbal cues, which appeared to be a greenlight as best I could tell.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 6:03 PM, Friday, August 5th]

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748409
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 6:05 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

OMG, you and sex and YOUR needs. Quite obviously your and your wife are not sexually compatible, whether it has to do with your kink and the adult sacrifices you have to make because you can’t get it fulfilled, or it’s one of many other reasons, but at the end of the day no matter what your wife did, she doesn’t owe you sex. Your sexual needs are always at the forefront and you think by her being an enthusiastic partner, she’s proving that she’s giving you what she owes.
No doubt she screwed up by having an affair. And maybe she wants to stay married so as not to lose her lifestyle, but you’re never gonna really be able to see what real R is like until your sexual demands and your needing her to prove her desire for you takes some sort of break. She fakes orgasms because you’re demanding her to be sexual with you. This is all very sad for both of you.

I find your response unfair and poorly measured. I'll leave it at that.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748410
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 6:37 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

I had a similar reaction as Hawaii's response. However, in light of your recent post,I can see that it appears she was consenting.

posts: 4495   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8748414
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 6:45 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

DrStrangelove,

I think one of the major issues is that for years, perhaps decades, you sacrificed your enjoyment of your kinks to honor your WWs choice in the matter.

And I don't even think you wanted to do these kinks over and over it would have been one and done.

I feel that way about the depth of passion my WW had for OM1 and the subsequent decades of drought for me.

Ignoring for the moment if those kinks were good or bad for your marriage.

Your WW should have been happy, should have felt like superwoman, that she is so sexy and attractive to you that you came in your pant btw.

posts: 1182   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8748418
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 7:05 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

Coming up on 100 pages and nothing has been resolved. That’s no blame on you and there’s none on us. Where this rest is completely on the shoulders of your wife. At some point in her life she found being passive aggressive is the best way to get her way without ever raising her voice. It used to be in the diagnostic manual but it’s since been removed. I think that was a stupid decision because I’ve dealt with two people who had a passive aggressive personality disorder. It is the most maddening thing to deal with I’ve ever seen. One of these people was my old boss and let me tell you he was the sorriest excuse for a boss I have ever seen and also damn scary because a lot of stuff in our office was legal and he never handled it, it just stayed under his desk. Anytime any issue was raised he would point a finger at someone in the office. Most of us left. I kept copies of paperwork for years thinking this was going to be a court case and I was going to protect myself. He finally resigned. And that’s when I finally destroyed the papers.

You need to be aware that she is going to push pull push pull you until you tell her to stop it and to stop it every single time she tries it, or you are done. The thing about people like this is if you keep calling them on BS they either do something about it or they leave. She is very comfortable in this because she keeps getting her way and she keeps punishing you. I think you need intense therapy to help you learn how to handle what is beginning to sound like a personality disorder on her part. I’m hoping I’m wrong.

The business about your fantasy sex life is just a red herring and it has pulled everybody off the original subject which is the manipulation of you by an angry wife that has been going on for years.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 7:07 PM, Friday, August 5th]

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3387   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8748422
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 7:07 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

A couple of thoughts in no particular order.

Faking an orgasm is lying. Lying is a hard boundary that can not be crossed when building trust.

On the other hand, I know many women who feel it’s unacceptable to their partner to not have one. So the sex keeps going even though sometimes women just know they aren’t going to. Nothing is wrong, just it’s elusive sometimes. So do I know women who find it easier to fake it rather than it going on indefinitely? Yes. I do not do this myself, but still to this day if I do not have one my husband thinks the session lacked something. It didn’t for me, I just didn’t reach a climax. It doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy it.

She probably should have just said no. My guess is she was afraid to do that. That is not an accusation against you AT ALL. This is likely her issue alone. But there is a narrative there she tells herself about it that she needs to dissect in IC and replace that behavior with something more productive. Likely it’s not more sinister than her people pleasing is in full force and she has learned that sex keeps things smoother. I definitely did this. In hindsight I think it was manipulative, but not with ill intentions. However, I have no history of weaponizing sex outside of my infidelity. She likely has a far bigger dig to do in this area than I did.

So she and you need to come to some understanding on how to handle this issue but moving forward, it’s lying. Lying to me would end my Reconciliation full stop. No lies at all are tolerated in my marriage today, at the same time we have had more time to sort things out than you two have and there will be bumps in the road getting to that point.

There are ways I relate to your wife and other ways I do not. The one thing you say is true- it is fake it until you make it in the beginning. People do not know how to be different immediately. Trying on things is part of that development which is very normal. I think I started to align with myself circling the first year end but it took a lot for me to even understand what authentic was to me because I had really lost myself.

I too used how others described things to start to see my own picture. Quoting books, or other people from here or podcasts. But over time this is as what it took to learn new behaviors for me. I didn’t know what it looked like so I had to try a lot on. I still give her credit for doing the reading in the first place, most of the indicators are there that she is trying. You can’t fail or succeed without trying and I think she is doing her share of both failing and succeeding, and trying again.

The crux of the problem is easy to understand. Her mask slips, any trust built up is gone. It’s natural you would question if it’s manipulation of her just trying to get back to normal or her really wanting things to be different. No one can tell you which thing she is doing. I can only tell you it could be either or even both. If she is manipulating you to keep the marriage, what is the reasoning behind it? She wants the marriage because _____. There should be many answers to this question, what does your gut say?

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:45 PM, Friday, August 5th]

5 years of hard work
Reconciled
WS & BS

posts: 6135   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8748423
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 7:33 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

I had a similar reaction as Hawaii's response. However, in light of your recent post,I can see that it appears she was consenting.

Interestingly, I find the entire line on consensual sex very insulting, but I'm trying to be even-headed. There's an inherent implication that I'm either forcing my wife to have sex with me or I'm too stupid to realize when she doesn't want to have sex with me.

Of course there's no way for any of you to *really* understand what's going on, so there's certainly no reason for me to be upset by the posts. It does further make me upset with my wife though. As I play through the evening, it is really quite maddening to observe her behavior up until that key point where she turned to me angry that I hadn't had an orgasm from giving her oral sex. To those reading, it likely sounds too absurd at face value.

So I'll give an update and then circle back to that.

We spoke--well, I spoke at first, making myself as clear as possible. She then took full responsibility for her bad behavior and her cruel and insensitive words in the discussion that followed. I'd describe her as devastatingly sad. She said she can't understand why she said and did the things she said and did. She's been playing it all back and none of it makes sense to her.

She agreed that she wasn't leading with love at all; that she tried to hurt me over the anxiety she ha about my relationship with her parents; and that she was incredibly defensive in the conversation. She's going to make this a focal point of her next IC session as she is seemingly very nervous she's going to end our marriage through one of these episodes.

I also noticed the timing of this incident and looked back--we've seemingly had a lot of blowups in the days leading up to her period (some of you may still remember the now infamous "sensitive boobs disaster of 2022"). She seized on that as well, noting how she is overly emotional in these 2-3 days and how she needs to safe guard against that in the future.

It was a good talk, and she was contrite. More so though, she was wounded and upset with herself--like she was trying to solve a puzzle with missing pieces.

So bringing this full circle, I brought up the issue of are ongoing dilemma with sex. In her mind, all the blame was on her: she gave mixed signals, was unclear on what she wanted, and made no attempt to communicate anything to me. We agreed. She admits that her mindset changed while we were being intimate; a wave of anxiety that hit her that she seemingly channels into resentment for me (and needless to say, from the view I had in those moments, her change in attitude was not discernable to me...).

However, the damage keeps coming regardless of the why.

That moment--her telling me I was annoying for not orgasming--needs to never happen again. That's my line in the sand moving forward. There's no excuse--emotional or otherwise--that justifies her being so cruel to me during a sexual moment. It's a well established issue and I won't tolerate her playing dumb about it. It's clear to her, me, and now all of you--so hold me to it.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748426
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 7:45 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

Coming up on 100 pages and nothing has been resolved. That’s no blame on you and there’s none on us. Where this rest is completely on the shoulders of your wife. At some point in her life she found being passive aggressive is the best way to get her way without ever raising her voice. It used to be in the diagnostic manual but it’s since been removed. I think that was a stupid decision because I’ve dealt with two people who had a passive aggressive personality disorder. It is the most maddening thing to deal with I’ve ever seen. One of these people was my old boss and let me tell you he was the sorriest excuse for a boss I have ever seen and also damn scary because a lot of stuff in our office was legal and he never handled it, it just stayed under his desk. Anytime any issue was raised he would point a finger at someone in the office. Most of us left. I kept copies of paperwork for years thinking this was going to be a court case and I was going to protect myself. He finally resigned. And that’s when I finally destroyed the papers.

You need to be aware that she is going to push pull push pull you until you tell her to stop it and to stop it every single time she tries it, or you are done. The thing about people like this is if you keep calling them on BS they either do something about it or they leave. She is very comfortable in this because she keeps getting her way and she keeps punishing you. I think you need intense therapy to help you learn how to handle what is beginning to sound like a personality disorder on her part. I’m hoping I’m wrong.

It's an issue of tools in her toolbox. As you point out, being passive aggressive is how she handles conflict--and she learned it from her parents (and her sister is the same). I go right out and tell the person how I feel--I learned that from my parents too (so did my sister). I've spent years of my life trying to be less abrasive and confrontational--I don't think it's always served me well (plenty of examples in this thread to back me up...). On her end, she's never thought of her passive aggressive behavior as much of an issue before--it's just how she is and it's seemingly served her just fine. Now I'm asking her to stop--cold turkey.

And she is seemingly doing a fairly good job of it up until last night. She slipped into her old behavior--she was anxious over her parents and attributed her uncomfortable feeling to me, but she wasn't yet prepared to engage in the conflict (perhaps because she recognized she had no influence in resolving it). It becomes this hammer that she conceals behind her back, then boom, we're being intimate and she cracks me over the head--it feels satisfying to her to hurt me because she feels like she's protecting herself.

It's quite fucked up and the only positive I see is that she recognizes it. She's not digging her heels in and telling me I'm wrong--she agrees with every word.

The business about your fantasy sex life is just a red herring and it has pulled everybody off the original subject which is the manipulation of you by an angry wife that has been going on for years.

There have been a lot of red herrings in my threads, but that's ok. It's the result of me writing on relatively arbitrary topics--I'm posting to sort out my brain and I'm trying not to filter any of it. Obviously extreme sex kinks are going to generate a response, but I'm not taking any of the responses personally.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8748429
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clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 7:54 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

She’s a phony. It’s a mask and her mask slipped big time last night.

I think that sums it up. I don't know how she could be more selfish than to expect you to welcome her parents back into your life. Its called consequences. Her actions are selfish and childish, which seems to match everything you have shared.

I do hope you do NOT allow this visit from her parents as it is enormously selfish of them to even consider it.

posts: 283   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8748431
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LostOpportunities20 ( member #74401) posted at 8:07 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

I'm posting to sort out my brain and I'm trying not to filter any of it.

Keep posting as you need.

I don't think it matters if this is 100 pages or 10 pages - if it helps you get through your thoughts, keep using it.

What I wouldn't give to have found this site and this capability when I went through my DDays.

BH (late 40s)
WW (late 40s) EA 2008, EA/probably PA 2009

Confessed the first, I caught her the second.

Filing for D

posts: 178   ·   registered: May. 7th, 2020
id 8748433
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 8:13 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

I admit,I could have worded my post better.

What I meant was, she didn't seem to be in the mood. She had changed her mind. She should have told you so. You were confused,because she seemed to be in the mood just moments before,so you proceeded,because she didn't tell you otherwise.

I do not think you sexually assaulted her at all.

I think she did what she has always done. She continues to weaponize sex.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:14 PM, Friday, August 5th]

posts: 4495   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8748435
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farsidejunky ( member #49392) posted at 9:13 PM on Friday, August 5th, 2022

Dr. S:

I am going to suggest (again) you read the parable of the scorpion and the frog...as you continue to twist yourself into a pretzel trying to understand why she can't stop stinging you...

“Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option.”

-Maya Angelou

posts: 615   ·   registered: Aug. 30th, 2015   ·   location: Tennessee
id 8748445
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