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My Wife Had an Intense, Highly Deceptive Affair, Part II

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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 4:19 AM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

Perhaps I did not catch it, but what is the purpose of the trip again?

I know you posted that she wants to see her family, but is that because your kids want to see her family also?

If it is just for your WW, then it would be quite a selfish move IMO.

You have suffered a great betrayal by her, and are going through rough emotional seas, and there she is, heading off to see her family because she wants to. Not because you asked her to go as you needed the space.

If your WW were truly remorseful, she would forgo the trip, help repair the damage she caused, and continued to work on herself to make herself safe for you.

She seems to be running away from the problem, and wants to rugsweep it. Hoping that all will be well as long as she avoids having to do anything.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 995   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8742111
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 1:24 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

Some background on the trip:

My WW’s parents don’t see my WW or the kids very often. It’s a sore spot for my WW as she has spent our entire relationship (going back 15 years) jealous of how close I am with my family, who I see all the time, and how little interest her parents have always had visiting her and the kids.

At first it was because her father had to work a lot, and then it was because they have two vacation homes they needed to visit throughout the year; and after the kids were born, I think she expected that would change things, but it didn’t.

She sees her parents on average 2-3x a year for a few days. It turned into a source of resentment toward me—because again, she is the victim. It’s also clearly resentment toward her dad, but I really don’t find it fair that she ever blamed me—I was always pushing for them to meet us on vacations or for us to visit them. Interestingly, I think my WW felt she was punishing them at times by not going more frequently to get back at them for not coming more frequently (passive aggressive).

I asked her for the 100th time the other day why she doesn’t address this with them and tell them how she feels about them coming down so infrequently and she responded by saying that her dad will just say she comes up infrequently too—they’re two peas in the same fucked up pod.

The entire thing is bizarre to me. Her parents are wealthy and live an hour away and seemingly are fine only seeing their grandchildren a couple of times a year. My WW being around my family just makes that reality harder to swallow.

As for this trip specifically, every year her family comes down to stay with us for Christmas and we go up to their summer vacation home once in the summer. Due to COVID protocols, we haven’t been able to visit their summer place since 2019. So we have had standing plans to go up there again as soon as we could, and this summer we can.

My wife doesn’t seem thrilled to go, but she is very concerned about the kids never seeing their grandparents—with her parents getting older, she recognizes the opportunities are limited and that she is going to need to put in the work if our children are going to have a relationship with them.

My wife wants me to go with her, but also very much understands why I will feel uncomfortable and she doesn’t expect me to go.

As discussed, I’m currently not planning on going—and I don’t think that changes—but I did want to consider the idea more strategically than simply: "I don’t want to go," though in this case, that may just be enough.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742133
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clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 4:34 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

All this for people who live ONE HOUR away. That's a day trip. A commute! How do you have the patience for this????

If she wants to see them, go see them. If she wants them to visit, she should address it and find them a hotel. How would her parents sucking be your fault or even involve you??

Two peas from the same fucked up pod seems accurate.

It almost seems like she wants to seem as immature and unreasonable as possible. She is unwilling to give up the victim role, even if it costs her the marriage.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 4:35 PM, Monday, June 27th]

posts: 283   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8742166
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 5:16 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

All this for people who live ONE HOUR away

To clarify, it’s a one-hour flight—they live in a different country, so it’s like a seven hour drive.

But yea, I’m kind of over the whole thing. Things have gone well since the minor incident on Friday. My wife was apologetic and she has been very kind and compassionate all weekend—checking in on me, being sweet, etc. I need to stop getting bogged down in the nonsense. She can go visit her parents anytime she wants.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 5:17 PM, Monday, June 27th]

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742179
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clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 9:11 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

One hour flight is definitely a bigger deal than one hour away. But yeah, leave this one to her. Don't go. Let her solve it. If she won't address her own issue with her parents minimal efforts with visiting, it will just be another thing to demonstrate that she is all talk. Just focus on you and let her do what she is going to do, no help or involvement from you. Take the time that she's gone to make plans for you - minimal checking in and all that. She really shouldn't even be discussing it with you. You need space from her AND them.

posts: 283   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8742200
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 10:04 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

So I thought I'd give a bit of a positive update for once. As I mentioned, the weekend went well--no red flags and she has been compassionate, kind, and open in our conversations. Also, she's getting immeasurably less defensive now, so conversations have seemingly been much more productive. I'm still not digging into her specific emotional issues, but sharing my feelings or discussing our M or the A have gone well.

She had an IC appointment today and as always she gives me feedback afterward. I even dug in on a few of the topics to better understand her headspace--something that would have been a very dangerous process a couple of weeks ago.

I was amazed a couple of times at how mature she was being. It might sound silly, but she was giving lots of mentally healthy perspectives rather than the usual moody teenager I've been dealing with lately.

We talked a bit about how she felt about me going out for two nights in a row after her work trip (Thurs. and Fri.). I pressed feeling like she must have been annoyed with me for doing that and she answered that in the past it was something that would have made her resentful, but she is just letting all that go. The way she looked at it, she had a string of incredible meals for her work trip, so it only seemed fair that I could have two great meals as well.

Sure, she could be lying and still be resentful, but I believed her--and more to the point, I don't think she'd have been capable of even telling that lie a year ago--her anger would have been transparent.

We also talked about the Friday incident with her wanting to go out to dinner with her friend on Saturday night and I suggested a more empathetic way she could have handled it; and she entirely agreed. Rather than getting wrapped up into being a victim about me insinuating she was a whore, she just focused on how *she* could have improved her behavior. In the past, she's always been 100% focused on my behavior (or others behaviors).

Last night, I was feeling suspicious about her for a couple of reasons and asked to see her phone--first time I've asked for it in a month or two and I have no plans to do it again. My suspicions were resolved and she was very mature about the whole thing. She never got defensive about it.

She discussed it in IC today and did flag that it made her feel the child-parent dynamic again though--it was like she was a teenager and her dad was going through her phone, so she is looking for help on how to address that as it's not the relationship she wants.

She also told her IC that I was still concerned about her badmouthing me and the IC asked to dig into her infamous A texts with her mom. To my WW's credit, she used one of the most ridiculous examples (I was shocked she didn't try to use an example she could try to defend).

In the example she gave to her IC, it was Feb. 14 and I took her out to dinner for Valentine's Day. At the dinner, she got a text from a fellow member of the PTA as they had been coordinating food and drinks for the next PTA event. The other PTA member suggested my WW ask AP for his advice on the vendor to hire--that enraged my WW. She was mad all evening and just told me it was over PTA stuff.

We got home and my WW told me what happened, noting that she was angry that [PTA person] wanted AP's opinion. I--not giving a shit about any of it, but wanting to be supportive--just said: "Well, you've told me that [AP] often handles food and drinks and has good connections around town, so [PTA person] probably just thought he'd have good advice on this. I wouldn't take it personally."

My WW blurted back at me: "No, I bet she's sleeping with AP!"

I didn't think anything of it, but my WW went into full blown panic mode that she said that and thought I'd be suspicious of her--if I recall correctly, I just poured myself some bourbon and turned on the TV.

So she went upstairs to get changed and texted her mom that night: "I hate my husband so much!" along with some other mean and out-of-context things--she was angry at the time that I took "AP's side" in the dispute.

Anyway, anyone would read that story and think my WW was an insane person, but she shared it with her IC and said she just started laughing. She said she was sitting there, a 38-year-old PTA mom who had an affair with a cop--a complete cliché--explaining to a woman with a PhD that she acted like a self-obsessed seventeen-year-old girl and destroyed her life. She said in that moment she realized the absurdity of all of it and has no idea why or how she was acting that way--it was like she had no ability to reason and no respect for herself at all during the A.

She was laughing as she told me all this, so it made me smile too. It seemed like she was self-aware finally. No idea if it lasts another minute, but it felt like she had made some good personal progress. She understands she let all her vices/personality flaws take over her life and still needs to safeguard against that in the future.

For once I've gotten through a string of three days optimistic about my WW--so let's see if we can make it four.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742210
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redrock ( member #21538) posted at 1:42 PM on Wednesday, June 29th, 2022

Seems like you both are willing to come back together to resolve conflict and analyze her IC.

Frankly, Neither of you seem to be able to function without returning to a version of the dynamic that’s played out your entire marriage.

This isn’t limbo. Especially if you are still validating and given her specific advice on behavior on her individual work and having sex.

Maybe it’s your own version of modified R. What do I know. The process isn’t linear for anyone.

I have no desire to harsh your mellow. I guess my ultimate question at this point is why you return to giving specific detailed advice on her behavior when you are supposed to be working on you and letting her work on her?

Is her IC unqualified? Is your wife unable to find other resources? Or is it really your desire at the end of the day to be her guide. Are you both doing the same analysis of your work?

I don't respect anyone that can't spell a word more than one way:)

posts: 3484   ·   registered: Nov. 6th, 2008   ·   location: Michigan
id 8742493
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 2:50 PM on Wednesday, June 29th, 2022

Seems like you both are willing to come back together to resolve conflict and analyze her IC.

Frankly, Neither of you seem to be able to function without returning to a version of the dynamic that’s played out your entire marriage.

This isn’t limbo. Especially if you are still validating and given her specific advice on behavior on her individual work and having sex.

Maybe it’s your own version of modified R. What do I know. The process isn’t linear for anyone.

I have no desire to harsh your mellow. I guess my ultimate question at this point is why you return to giving specific detailed advice on her behavior when you are supposed to be working on you and letting her work on her?

Is her IC unqualified? Is your wife unable to find other resources? Or is it really your desire at the end of the day to be her guide. Are you both doing the same analysis of your work?

That's fair. I am very frequently *not* probing. She'll say something that gives me pause and I'll either say nothing or suggest she discuss it in IC. It actually just happened this morning while she was getting ready for work--she gave a clear indication about something she was clearly very self-unaware on in a work anecdote she shared. I feigned some gentle advice, but she pushed back hard and got defensive, so I immediately let it go and cheerfully suggested it might be a good topic to explore in IC.

I did probe in our IC follow-up chat the other day and maybe that's wrong. I think it's just me looking for proof of life--I saw some positive signs in that conversation, so it was helpful for me. I have no idea if it was helpful for her.

There are a few balls in the air right now and I need to give a longer update, but I likely won't have time until tonight at the earliest.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742505
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 3:18 PM on Wednesday, June 29th, 2022

Cliches are truth. Leopards do not change their spots. You keep trying to push a rope up a hill. Just let go of the outcome and concentrate on you and the kids. You must be mentally and physically exhausted. You.cannot.fix.her. She has to fix herself. All the expert experience on this site has been given you and you are still trying to solve her issues for her. Just stop. Take a breath. Take several.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3387   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8742512
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 10:07 PM on Wednesday, June 29th, 2022

I thought I'd give a larger update, which I'll break into a few parts.

This week has gone largely well between my wife and I with only some minor bumps. I'm focusing on me and the kids as best I can. I went to a baseball game today with my son and father and didn't think about the A once, so I definitely feel myself healing from the trauma gradually.

I still feel myself in limbo, not knowing if I want to attempt to recommit to my wife or move toward separation--I feel like I know what I'm looking for, but there hasn't been enough in either direction for me to to tell her I want to R or to ask her to move out. It's a frustrating way to live, but I'm putting faith in the idea that it will resolve itself if I give it more time.

Her Family Vacation

I decided not to join my WW and kids on her visit to see her parents in July. Instead, as I'll have an entire week to myself, my mother and I decided we'd go back to Italy to visit friends again. I know I was just there, but I love being there and I can't say no to this opportunity with no kids to watch. So back to Rome and Florence to see some good people and enjoy some good food and shopping.

Dinner with Her Friend

The dinner she wanted to do with her friend last Saturday is set for this Friday. She'll be going with her friend and her friend's husband. She wants me to go, but I don't feel comfortable doing that right now. As I've mentioned, this friend *likely* knows about the A--she was on the three-person committee with my WW and AP--and was one of the people my wife badmouthed me to during the A. She's a lovely person, and I'm sure her husband is as well, but it feels too soon for me to try to tackle that dinner--I know it'll be a major trigger as soon as I sit down. And if the friend doesn't know about the A, she'll be oblivious on what topics to avoid and I'm sure discuss PTA, etc.

My feelings on the dinner have left me torn. On one hand, my WW is doing exactly what I asked: living her life and doing what she wants to do with or without me. On the other hand, it feels like she's prioritizing herself over our M. Her initial reason for trying to setup the dinner weeks ago was because she thought I was going to leave her and she wanted to build some relationships in the area so she wasn't entirely alone.

Ultimately, I'll be fine with it--I'll do something fun with the kids on Friday--but it feels like it irrationally bothers me when it shouldn't.

Polygraph

I've been trying to figure out the path bak to trusting my WW again and I thought one thing that could potentially help is if she took a polygraph test. If she passed, it would mean that her deluge of truth back on March 18 was comprehensive and forthcoming and it would mean she's had no other indiscretions during our relationship. That doesn't help me in knowing if she would cheat again, but I feel like it could give me *something*--I don't know if it will though.

Regardless, I decided to put in the work to explore what a polygraph would look like. Digging through this site, I stumbled on an old post by @faithfulman and took some of his recommendations. My thinking is I'd ask her to confirm the accuracy of her written testimony that she crafted three months ago AND confirm the accuracy of a Q&A I had her write responses for. In addition, I figure I can ask her another question or two on top of those.

I asked her if she was willing to do that and she immediately agreed. I shared the Q&A (which I'll post below) and she brought it up with me last night in a conversation. Initially, she seemed very uneasy, so my alarm bells were going off. I asked why she was showing concern and she said it was because of question #6--she had no idea if she had ever deleted spam texts and didn't know how to answer. I suggested we revise the question from "deleting any texts" to "deleting any texts from a known male associate"--that immediately resolved her concerns and she said she'd be happy to do it.

She still hasn't filled it out and gotten back to me, but from the sound of it, she thinks none of my questions will raise an issue. She is a bit worried about how the test will pick up on her generally anxious disposition, but I told her that won't be an issue.

So is this a good idea?

Q&A:

Preface questions 1-6 with: "Since you moved in with [BH] in 2008"

1. Other than [AP], have you had any affairs, inappropriate, or secret relationships with anyone?

Elaborate.

How many times?

2. Have you engaged in any sexual contact with any men, other than [BH] and [AP]?

Elaborate.

How many times?

3. Have you been naked or in a state of undress in the presence of any men other than [BH] and [AP]?

Elaborate.

How many times?

4. Have you let any men touch your breasts, butt or between your legs, either over or under your clothing, other than [BH] and [AP]?

Elaborate.

How many times?

5. Have you used a morning-after pill or had an abortion?

Elaborate.

How many times?

6. Prior to Dec. 17, 2021, had you ever deleted any text messages or social media communications between a known male associate?

Elaborate.

How many times?

**

7. Have you deleted any text messages or social media communications since March 16, 2022?

Elaborate.

How many times?

8. Have you seen [AP] since March 2, 2022?

Elaborate.

How many times?

9. Have you been in contact with [AP] since April 2, 2022?

Elaborate.

How many times?

10. Did you consider attempting to leave [BH] for [AP]?

Elaborate.

11. Did you love [AP]?

12. Please list the places you have been in private with [AP] and do not leave anything out regardless of how innocent it was. Please include the dates.

13. Please list and elaborate on all the times you bad mouthed or down talked [BH] to [AP].

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 10:18 PM, Wednesday, June 29th]

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742589
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 10:48 PM on Wednesday, June 29th, 2022

I think her choice of who she is "attempting to build a relationship/friendship" with.. rather odd.

It sounds like her association with this woman is solely due to being on a 3 person committee for the PTA.

And the third person was the OM.

Of course the PTA will be discussed. Of course what she,this woman,and OM, did on the PTA together, will be discussed.

Of course OM will be discussed.

Assuming this woman doesn't know about the affair, she probably considers OM to be a mutual friend.

Since the only thing they have in common,and this is a very new friendship, the conversation, at least at first, will be centered on what they have in common.

I would be very uncomfortable with this. Your wife will,no doubt,learn some info on what's going on with OM these days.

OM shouldn't be a topic of conversation at any dinner table your wife sits at.

And..out of all the people in town..all the other women in the PTA..out of all the other mothers in your kid's classes..and the mothers of your kids friends..she chose the woman who is friends with OM.

It's a very odd choice.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:50 PM, Wednesday, June 29th]

posts: 4495   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8742590
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 11:15 PM on Wednesday, June 29th, 2022

I think her choice of who she is "attempting to build a relationship/friendship" with.. rather odd.

It sounds like her association with this woman is solely due to being on a 3 person committee for the PTA.

And the third person was the OM.

Of course the PTA will be discussed. Of course what she,this woman,and OM, did on the PTA together, will be discussed.

Of course OM will be discussed.

Assuming this woman doesn't know about the affair, she probably considers OM to be a mutual friend.

Since the only thing they have in common,and this is a very new friendship, the conversation, at least at first, will be centered on what they have in common.

I would be very uncomfortable with this. Your wife will,no doubt,learn some info on what's going on with OM these days.

OM shouldn't be a topic of conversation at any dinner table your wife sits at.

And..out of all the people in town..all the other women in the PTA..out of all the other mothers in your kid's classes..and the mothers of your kids friends..she chose the woman who is friends with OM.

It's a very odd choice.

I agree with you somewhat, but I don’t want to be unfair in painting this picture either. She has known this woman for years as an acquaintance—her daughter is my son’s age. The woman is not friends with AP at all.

The dynamic of the committee was strange—I read through their excruciatingly long and boring group texts—the friend was very disengaged and my WW and AP handled virtually everything, often bickering about details while the friend ignored the back and forth.

I’d describe this friend as a quintessential PTA mom—really sweet, child-focused. She seems to genuinely be a great person and if not for her association with this committee, I’d see her as a great friend of the M.

As for the dinner specifically, I think it’s likely she knows about the A. Both my WW and AP quit the PTA within two weeks of each other, leaving the same committee. Not to mention others on PTA, including OBS, know of the affair. It would be very naive to think she doesn’t know. That also means her husband certainly knows.

However, they don’t know that my WW knows they know—so I don’t think they’ll openly talk about the A at dinner obviously. My WW can evade the topic as she deems appropriate.

All of that though is beside the point you make—of all the people to pursue a deeper friendship with, choosing someone that almost certainly knows about the A feels like an insult to me. If the dinner goes well and she gets closer with them, it just makes my life more awkward.

I don’t want future relationships that remind me of the A—her choice to pursue this feels insensitive to me. But me making a stink about it feels counter to what I’m asking her to do—she’ll likely accuse me of sending mixed signals.

I’m very torn on how to handle it. Letting it go on will just complicate my life further if we R and I’m kicking the problem down the road.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 11:18 PM, Wednesday, June 29th]

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742592
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clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 1:05 AM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

I think you just watch her actions. Everything you brought up is valid. But you don't need to give her any clues. If she actively chooses to pursue friendships connected to the A and will be awkward for you, she is further demonstrating that she does not empathize with the positions she has put you in, against your will. Pointing this out to her won't do any good and you already know she will be defensive anyway. Just give her a chance to figure it out and hope she does. Which sucks but how else are you going to know the real her without letting her do what she is going to do?

This does not mean that if you were in a healthy relationship, you shouldn't communicate with your wife. You should. But you aren't and you're trying to live separately while you're in this limbo.

posts: 283   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8742613
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 1:35 AM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

Maybe it’s just me but I find it so odd that your wife was trying to build relationships while in the middle of this excruciating trauma you are living through. She was hedging her bets. That is a very self-centered person. She’s got a lot of work to do. I’m glad you’re going to Italy.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3387   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8742615
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 1:54 AM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

I think you just watch her actions. Everything you brought up is valid. But you don't need to give her any clues. If she actively chooses to pursue friendships connected to the A and will be awkward for you, she is further demonstrating that she does not empathize with the positions she has put you in, against your will. Pointing this out to her won't do any good and you already know she will be defensive anyway. Just give her a chance to figure it out and hope she does. Which sucks but how else are you going to know the real her without letting her do what she is going to do?

This does not mean that if you were in a healthy relationship, you shouldn't communicate with your wife. You should. But you aren't and you're trying to live separately while you're in this limbo.

Too late. I talked with her and told her how I felt. It went exactly as you suggested—and I knew it would go. She got defensive, then she started crying, then she offered to cancel the dinner at my request. The result would be her doing the right thing and not understanding why she was doing it.

To her, it’s as simple as she wants to do the dinner and she likes the friend. It’s not relevant to her how I feel.

I pushed for her to keep the dinner, but she is just entirely lost and confused. She can’t empathize with me at all and feels like she just keeps making the wrong choices and hurting me. Whereas for me, I can’t see how she can’t see this more clearly. I’m literally explaining to her how I feel and she doesn’t understand why going to the dinner is a poor choice.

She has IC tomorrow morning; maybe it will be helpful for her.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742616
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 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 3:26 AM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

She responded to my Q&A—I’ll have to heavily redact it to avoid specific answers. She also seems very confident about her answers and is pushing for the polygraph, so I’ll set something up tomorrow.

Interestingly, regarding Q6, it’s clear she was lying with her BS deleting spam comment. She knew she deleted messages from men early in our relationship and didn’t want to admit to it. That’s far from a dealbreaker for me at this point, but certainly noteworthy.

No other new information though.

**

Preface questions 1-6 with: "Since you moved in with [BH] in 2008"

1. Other than [AP], have you had any affairs, inappropriate, or secret relationships with anyone?

a. I have not had any prior affairs or inappropriate relationships with anyone outside of [AP]. The only thing I would do is flirt with men.

2. Have you engaged in any sexual contact with any men, other than [BH] and [AP]?

b. I have not had sex, given or been given oral, let any man touch my breasts, butt, between my legs. I might have kissed men on the cheek (friends).

3. Have you been naked or in a state of undress in the presence of any men other than [BH] and [AP]?

a. No I have not been naked in front of any other men other than [BH] and [AP]. I might have been in a towel in front of [BH friend] when we used to share rooms [on vacation].

(This is not a red flag at all)

4. Have you let any men touch your breasts, butt or between your legs, either over or under your clothing, other than [BH] and [AP]?

a. No I have not let any men touch my breasts, butt, between my legs either over or under clothing other than [BH] and [AP].

5. Have you used a morning-after pill or had an abortion?

a. No

6. Prior to Dec. 17, 2021, had you ever deleted any text messages or social media communications?

a. I am going to answer yes to this. I do not know how many times, I’m not sure if I deleted texts if [XBF1] reached out (dating back 2008) or even if [XBF2] sent me a text when he was here. What I can confirm is that I never had an emotional affair via text/social media. I also did not sext with anyone outside of [BH] and [AP].

**

7. Have you deleted any text messages or social media communications since March 16, 2022?

a. No I have not deleted any text messages or social media communications since March 16th, 2022.

8. Have you seen [AP] since March 2, 2022?

a. No I have not seen [AP] since March 2nd, 2022.

9. Have you been in contact with [AP] since April 2, 2022?

a. I have not seen, spoken to, had any contact with [AP] since April 2nd, 2022. The last message I replied to was a text message on March 21st telling him that I was reconciling with my husband.

10. Did you consider attempting to leave [BH] for [AP]?

a. No I was not planning on leaving [BH] for [AP].

10. Did you love [AP]?

a. No I did not love [AP].

11. Please list the places you have been in private with [AP] and do not leave anything out regardless of how innocent it was. Please include the dates.

(I will add notes in parentheticals for context).

a. [PTA Event #1] in school – 9/12

(first time alone; she gets a spark. I was at event, but she went off alone into school with him to get a key)

b. [PTA Event #2]clean up in Cafeteria – 10/15

(I was at event, but took kids home and left her behind to clean up)

c. [PTA Event #3] clean up – 12/4

(when she knew something would happen between them eventually; significant sexual tension and flirting)

d. [PTA holiday party] upstairs outside of bathrooms 12/17

(first kiss)

e. Drink in the city—forgot the name of the bar – 12/21

(make out session; she lied to me about being at work holiday party)

f. Corner of XX bumped in while he was running – 12/23

(he tried to kiss, but WW refused because she was around corner from our house)

g. XX Park Run – 12/28

(kissing; when they planned hotel stay)

h. His car in parking lot across from [arena] / XX Hotel – Jan 4th (until 7am on 1/5)

(this is when they met for NBA game and he then drove her to hotel for first night of sex; she told me she was traveling for work)

i. His car in parking lot across from XX – Jan 18th
(Make out, BJ and fingering)

j. His car in parking lot across from XX – Jan 24th
(Make out, BJ and fingering)

k. His car in parking lot across from XX – Feb 8th
(Make out and BJ—she was on period)

l. XX Hotel – 2/24 (until 7am on 2/25)

(Second all night sex session; anal, handcuffs, etc. She told me she was traveling for work again)

m. [PTA Event #4] set up – 2/26 (brief small talk; he asked if she got home ok. Later that night is when WW became friendly with OBS)

n. His car in parking lot across from XX – 3/2 (last physical connection: Make out, BJ and sex)

12. Please list and elaborate on all the times you bad mouthed or down talked me to [AP].

a. In January I told [AP] that [BH] was needy

b. In January, I told [AP] that I had to fake my orgasms

c. I communicated that I was annoyed that my son kept getting forgotten on the bus

d. I communicated that we argued several times during the holidays

e. I communicated that I was upset when [BH] corrected my email to the PTA

f. I communicated that [BH] was "off my guest" list when he made me angry at [restaurant]

g. I communicated that [BH] would be bored at [PTA social gathering]

h. I communicated that I did not want [BH] to be in the same room or at the same bar as [AP] because suspicions would arise.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 12:04 PM, Thursday, June 30th]

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742624
default

grubs ( member #77165) posted at 3:01 PM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

10. Did you consider attempting to leave [BH] for [AP]?

a. No I was not planning on leaving [BH] for [AP].

10. Did you love [AP]?

a. No I did not love [AP].

It'd be interesting to see if she passes due to these. They aren't real good poly questions (Too objective, feelings or opinions not facts), but her responses aren't in line with her narrative post Dday.

posts: 1264   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8742664
default

 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 3:16 PM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

Update:

My WW spent most of her IC session today discussing her planned dinner with the friend. She decided to cancel it and leave future plans open-ended. It sounds like her IC suggested that course.

I did not probe as to why she decided to cancel, but I have no doubt it's not a decision she agrees with. She's not cancelling because she thinks it's the right thing to do, she's cancelling it because me and her IC think it's the right thing for her to do and she desperately wants to do the right thing. The problem, of course, is that because it's not a decision she's leading on it will teach her nothing and she'll probably have some resentment over it toward me. Ultimately, the entire episode was unproductive.

**

As for the polygraph, my conversation with my WW last night left me very concerned. I think she's lying entirely on Q6--I have no doubt that she was having flirtatious conversations with exBFs and male co-workers throughout our entire relationship and then deleting the messages. Her hard line appears to be that she never engaged in an EA or sexually explicit conversation. I'm now worried though that she'll fail the entire Q&A question over her trying to thread the needle on what "inappropriate" might mean, etc.

I'm going to rework the questions to be laser focused on the things I care about. I don't really care if her exBFs were hitting on her--it's a boundary issue she has to work on, but I don't want to muddy the waters on the bigger topics.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742666
default

 Drstrangelove (original poster member #80134) posted at 3:18 PM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

It'd be interesting to see if she passes due to these. They aren't real good poly questions (Too objective, feelings or opinions not facts), but her responses aren't in line with her narrative post Dday.

Regarding leaving me--her narrative post-DDay was that she thought our M was over, but she never admitted to thinking she would monkey branch from a relationship with me to a relationship with AP. The question is trying to confirm that was truthful, but perhaps you're right that it's too ambiguous.

Regarding loving AP, she's always been steadfast that she never loved him and it was purely a spark and lust.

Me: BH, 38 (37 at time of A)
Her: WW, 38 (37 at time of A)
A: 9/21 - 3/22 (3 month EA; 3 month PA)
DDay: March 15, 2022
Status: Limbo

posts: 776   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022
id 8742667
default

clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 3:23 PM on Thursday, June 30th, 2022

You're never going to get out of limbo if you won't let her fuck up on her own. You're exactly right - she canceled the dinner for all the wrong reasons and will pout about it and probably bring it up randomly in some other fight, unearthing her buried illogical resentment.

If you can't back off and let her fuck up and stop dragging you in, you've got to reconsider separation. Something. You need a break. You're torturing yourself imagining she is someone she just isn't. You hoped to see empathy but she doesn't have empathy for you, so you're not going to see it.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 3:32 PM, Thursday, June 30th]

posts: 283   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8742668
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