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Newest Member: Gtacch

Just Found Out :
La La Land Betrayal

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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 1:48 AM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

Tdd: Two things come to mind as to what can be done with the AP. A sexual harassment case can be pursued against the AP and the employer if the facts warrant it. An attorney who specializes in such cases can look at the facts independently and advise whether such a suit is viable. The third-party conclusions are not definitive. The employer can also take independent action against the AP that can include a transfer to another office, a termination, a suspension, a demotion, or something less severe.

posts: 622   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8734047
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 2:03 AM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

I'm going preface this with an fyi that I'm a woman and have been sexually abused.

OP, there is nothing wrong with you being suspicious. Your wife has proven herself to be unreliable, and you simply don't know what happened that night or in the time period leading up to it.

She might be telling the truth about being sexually assaulted, or she might be lying. Yes, both are completely possible. That "believe all women" mantra needs to be changed to "take all women seriously". Her claims are serious and indicate assault if they're honest, however, your wife has a track record of dishonesty and a strong motive to conceal the truth in this case.

Two things could have happened:

1. Your wife repeatedly romantically/sexually chatted with this guy in violation of your marriage vows & harming your relationship, then lied when you questioned her about the texts, claiming she "can't remember" basic details about the texts such as were there a few or a hundred, which is impossible and a classic cheater dodge. She failed to take responsibility in therapy and tried to push the blame on you. And aside from that, she was sexually assaulted by the guy she'd been romantically/sexually chatting with.

OR

2. Your wife did all of the above, but instead of the sex being an assault as she claimed, it was actually consensual, and she panicked the morning after, realizing it wasn't worth it, people might talk, you might find out and this might end her marriage. So she filed a complaint against the guy at work (noticeably, not with the police) to cover her tracks, suspecting that the complaint wouldn't go anywhere due to lack of evidence, but not really caring that he might lose his job, anyway.

Those who think Option 2 is impossible are being naive. A person willing to betray her husband by chatting romantically/sexually with a known womanizer, risking her marriage & therefore the well-being of her children for an ego boost, and then deleting most of the texts and lying to her husband about the extent of her involvement, can certainly be capable of lying about another man at work & risking him getting fired, in order to cover her tracks to protect her marriage, reputation & financial stability.

The only way you can get close to the truth, whichever it is, is to insist she take a polygraph. Without that, you'll never be able to trust her again & the marriage might not survive.

She can handle being asked about that night, even if she was drugged and raped. It won't be pleasant but she can report what happened to the polygrapher, just like she reported what happened to you and to her boss. Just like you were traumatized by her infidelity, but can talk about it with her and during counseling. It's stressful but you're both adults and can take it because it's important to your marriage.

If she claims she just can't handle a single polygraph, it's a dodge. You should give her an ultimatum on that because it's the only way to have reasonable certainty about what really happened.

[This message edited by morningglory at 4:20 AM, Saturday, May 7th]

posts: 168   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8734051
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 4:03 AM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

MorningGlory, I do think option 2 is viable in general however in this case it appears that the OP only found out when the WW got home and she had filed the complaint 1-2 weeks prior while still on travel.


SRC9043, yes, good options to consider.

I'd still like to understand what posom said happened in the reort.

posts: 573   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8734057
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rambler ( member #43747) posted at 4:33 AM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

Most rapes and assaults go unreported. The reason is the embarrassment and shame the victim is feeling. Although false reports do occur they are very few.

She not only reported him, she did it the Next day. She was sexually assaulted. yes you should stand by her.


Post partum depression is also the real deal too. Given she is expecting again you and your wife need to focus on her physical and mental health. Get your family through this. You can deal with the other stuff later.

There are things that can happen that you can not have back. Do not make a mistake that can not be fixed and you can not have back.

making it through

posts: 1321   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2014   ·   location: Chicago
id 8734059
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 12:13 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

There is no way to verify what actually happened over text because she deleted all the history and due to an untimely iMessage back up and lack of storage it is impossible recover.

I find this very hard to believe. We hear this story all the time here, the spouse that flirts with a coworker but "won’t go over the limits". Then accidentally lose the texts… oups! And forget what the texts were about, how convenient. By flirting like this, she already is cheating.

If her flirting is a deal breaker for you then you should talk to a D lawyer. You would be D because of her flirting, not because of what happened at the party.

If you are considering R, like others have said, try to get the whole story, go for a written timeline (which could exclude the rape itself, say up to the time she was still sober) polygraph, to verify what actually happened. Then you can decide on R with a "truer" version of reality and your WW has to work on herself to become a safe partner.

You don’t need a MC. Your marriage doesn’t need to be fixed. Your WW needs to change.

Your WW didn’t flirt because of post partum or because she was unhappy in your marriage or, or, or…. She flirted because she was away, thought you would never find out and enjoyed it. You can R, but she has to become a safe partner.

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1533   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8734068
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Notmine ( member #57221) posted at 4:08 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

I know I am jaded and quick to judge cheaters. I know that this might make my questions seem insensitive or unfair. However, I think that it is important to consider all possibilities in order to help the BS find answers.

One night their team went out for drinks and she got blackout drunk.

Is this something that is typical? If it is not, could it have been some sort of CYA (cover your ass) statement? Cheaters have used this before to explain their lack of responsibility to stop sexual activity with an OP. It might also indicate that the OM drugged your wife, which is criminal and needs to be reported to the authorities. If it IS typical, this is not normal drinking and needs attention so that your wife is safe in the future. Disclaimer: A person's level of inebriation does not indicate that they invite unwanted sexual advances. It is unsafe on many levels.

There are bits and pieces she remembers but not some major pieces like how the OM got back to her house or how he got into her bed.

I have heard this before on this site from cheaters. Sometimes, cheaters use this as a CYA strategy as well. Why was this guy in the house at all? If there were flirty texts and he was being aggressive, it would seem he would not have been invited. In addition, why did the other women not send him on his way? Seems like they were pretty crappy colleagues if your wife was highly inebriated and they did not step in. Again if there was some sort of drugging going on, this should be reported to the police at once. Predators who drug people and sexually assault them need to be in jail.

I agree that ANY complaint of sexual abuse should be treated seriously and with the utmost respect for the victim. I also agree that filing a complaint with work is serious, but is it possible that the harassment filing be some sort of panicked regret over sexual activity? You wife chose not to go to the police? Did she tell you why?

I have to agree with SRC9043

Her claims are serious and indicate assault if they're honest, however, your wife has a track record of dishonesty and a strong motive to conceal the truth in this case.


and

A person willing to betray her husband by chatting romantically/sexually with a known womanizer, risking her marriage & therefore the well-being of her children for an ego boost, and then deleting most of the texts and lying to her husband about the extent of her involvement, can certainly be capable of lying about another man at work & risking him getting fired, in order to cover her tracks to protect her marriage, reputation & financial stability.

I do not think that the fact that she filed a harassment claim at work the day after shows beyond a reasonable doubt that she was assaulted. It could be a panicked, regretful response to infidelity. A police report would add another layer of truth to her claim. In addition, there might be some actual consequences for the assault. Again, I am not trying to place blame on victims of sexual assault, and I recognize that there are many reasons victims do not report assaults, but I think these are legitimate questions in light of your wife's prior relationship with this guy.

This is a sensitive situation. It is important to keep in mind that your wife had been displaying wayward mentality, which is dishonest and lacks integrity. On the other hand, she was in a vulnerable state in the presence of an aggressive womanizer. A polygraph might be the only way to get at the truth.

I urge you to go to the police if your wife was assaulted. This asswipe should not have the opportunity to do this to someone else.

When you're going through hell, for God's sake, DON'T STOP!

posts: 699   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2017   ·   location: DC
id 8734085
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qwert ( new member #57498) posted at 6:02 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

When I first saw pictures of another man my wife was sending herself from our shared email to her work email, she said it was nothing. Then it was they had lunch. Then it was they held hands and kissed. Then it was they had sex. I forget if this trickle truth was over days, weeks, or months. It was 5 years ago. My mind was just going crazy with the unknowns. The fact for me is she is the only one who will know the entire truth. I found some written message to AP, "is it wrong to fall in love?" When i asked her about it, she couldn’t answer. When I asked her about anything, she had difficulty answering. It appeared to me that we were both in traumatic shock.

At some point, maybe a year or two or three into reconciliation, I stopped asking. I did not want to know if there was any more. We had been married 26 years at that point.

posts: 34   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2017   ·   location: Los Angeles
id 8734101
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DailyGratitude ( member #79494) posted at 6:42 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

Your wife played with fire
Only your wife knows the truth as to whether she was sexually assaulted or if she had consensual sex. I am a woman and I hate to say this but some women use the "sexual assault" card to get themselves out of hot water.
But if she was indeed sexually assaulted, it needs to be reported to the police.
The perp cannot get away with this!
This is a serious crime.

posts: 211   ·   registered: Oct. 17th, 2021   ·   location: Connecticut
id 8734104
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 8:52 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

There’s a good chance somebody still has every single text he sent and received from her. If he’s innocent, he could have used them in his defense and maybe the reason no further action was taken. The texts may have shown complicity, consensus. The texts between them may have been enough to cast doubt on the accusations.

Just a thought. HR may have seen the text thread. HR knows more than you do. Your wife probably has access to the investigative findings.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:15 PM, Saturday, May 7th]

posts: 891   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8734119
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 9:34 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

The HR report would also include interviews with other team members as to their relationship leading up to that night.

I think it's very likely that interviews with the other team members as well as all her texts to the other man failed to provide HR with a solid legal basis to take action.

posts: 2573   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8734122
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rugswept ( member #48084) posted at 9:56 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

geesh... drunk .. black out .. guy in room .. pushing him away .. jammies under the blankets...


yuck yuck yuck, lies lies lies.
what a pile of horsesh** you got from her.

R'd (rug swept everything) decades ago.
I'm big on R. Very happy marriage but can never forget.

posts: 1004   ·   registered: Jun. 2nd, 2015   ·   location: Northeast US
id 8734123
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 10:03 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

Highly unlikely an employer would take zero action in the wake of such an accusation. Employers have much more discretionary ability to act on sexual harassment allegations than law enforcement has. Employers have to provide a safe, non hostile work environment and would, at least, separate involved parties. Most employers have unprofessional conduct or fraternization policies that could also be used to separate, discipline or terminate involved parties in violation of. Many employers will err on the side of wrongful termination of the accused vs erring on the side of under-reacting to a sexual harassment accusation.

There most likely was a comprehensive investigation with actions taken. If this guy made a case successfully enough to cloud the issue and avoid termination, transfer, or discipline, he very likely did so using compelling evidence from witness statements and text traffic.

The NDA was probably issued to protect your wife from any sort of workplace retaliation.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:18 PM, Saturday, May 7th]

posts: 891   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8734125
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40YOSL ( member #49318) posted at 10:25 PM on Saturday, May 7th, 2022

Whether she was sexually assaulted or not and whether she is being truthful about what happened and her memories of it is not clear. What is clear is that she is pregnant and I doubt the stress from this episode is good for the innocent unborn child.

What I suggest is that for the safety of the unborn child you both get tested for STD's because with a blackout drunk situation she can't be absolutely certain what did happen. I also suggest terminating the couples counseling and both get individual counseling to further reduce the stress.

You might talk with an attorney about obtaining the evidence acquired by the company inquiry including presumably texts from his cell and testimony taken. Then you might consider tabling future confrontation until after the birth.

[This message edited by 40YOSL at 10:30 PM, Saturday, May 7th]

posts: 497   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2015
id 8734128
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SilverStar ( member #46958) posted at 2:03 AM on Sunday, May 8th, 2022

The description of how she felt reminds me a lot of the time I was drugged by a date in college. That's all I wanted to say.

BW me
WH him
2 kids
D-Day 11/11/14

posts: 458   ·   registered: Feb. 25th, 2015   ·   location: United States
id 8734157
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SilverStar ( member #46958) posted at 2:03 AM on Sunday, May 8th, 2022

The description of how she felt reminds me a lot of the time I was drugged by a date in college. That's all I wanted to say.

BW me
WH him
2 kids
D-Day 11/11/14

posts: 458   ·   registered: Feb. 25th, 2015   ·   location: United States
id 8734158
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NotMyFirstRodeo ( member #75220) posted at 2:41 AM on Sunday, May 8th, 2022

She's prepared to lie and minimize? What's the limit to her willingness to do so? Liars are incredible at rationalizing lies which protect themselves from consequences so I'd argue they're willing to create pretty horrible lies. I know this doesn't give you an answer but it's a philosophy with merit and one that can be applied to anything a lying WS could say.

You have my sympathy. It just sucks that you're stuck with the mess she made.

Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later that debt is paid.

posts: 326   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2020
id 8734164
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:38 PM on Sunday, May 8th, 2022

The guy doesn't have to prove his innocence for HR to do nothing. All he has to do is cast doubt on the accusation. And the company damned well needs an ironclad case to sanction the guy, or he may come back and sue the company - and win.

The police can't do much here, because there's too much vagueness. I strongly suspect the guy is guilty of sexual assault, but I can't see myself voting to convict him on the basis of the evidence so far.

*****

Let's get back to helping Stuckwithmythoucghts.

Stuck,

Again, you've been betrayed. That's the worst part of this. Most of us have WSes who do know what they did. Most of us don't Choose R unless our WS will come clean. Your W has possibly ... probably come as clean as she can.

Most of us feel tremendous grief, anger, fear, and shame on (and after) d-day. Mots of us can get details about the A from our WSes. We can deal with our feelings and decide if we can rebuild our M knowing what we know.

You know a lot less than most of us, but you still have to deal with your feelings, and you still have to decide between D and R.

What are you feeling now? Are you ready to make decisions or do you want or need more time? How can we help?

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27082   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8734217
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NotInMyLife ( member #67728) posted at 6:03 PM on Sunday, May 8th, 2022

There's no question that a different counseling program is needed. Whether or not your wife was assaulted, you both know that she was a willing participant in an office friendship that crossed the line. Your current counselor's perspective, which is too focused on supporting her, really misses the point. Personally I think you should both find new counselors, starting with an individual counselor for her and an infidelity counselor for you.

While you are looking for new professionals, there are a couple of books that can provide insight into how the two of you ended up where you are. Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass addresses inappropriate boundary violations in friendships. What Makes Love Last?, by John Gottman discusses , the factors that actually strengthen a relationship rather than dwelling on bogus "unmet needs".

posts: 151   ·   registered: Nov. 3rd, 2018
id 8734220
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