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Reconciliation :
Still waiting on full disclosure after 2 years

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 Livingingrief (original poster member #79723) posted at 2:28 AM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

After 2 years, there so still so many things I don't know about my H affair. Most questions are answered with I DONT REMEMBER or I DONT KNOW.
For example, I still don't know how long his A truly lasted for. I still don't know how often they talked. I still don't know when they had sex. I still don't know how often they sexted. I still don't know anything they talked about. I still don't know how he acted so normal all while cheating with a neighbor/friend. I still have so many unanswered questions and I'm starting to believe I will never get answers. When I try to get answers, he either gets angry or says he doesn't want to talk or makes excuses for why he cannot give me the answers I need. I dont feel like I will ever heal.
My H also hasn't Don anything to dig deep, he doesn't ask about my pain. When he sees me in pain, he runs and avoids me and never ever brings it up later. Ypu avoids everything at all cost. He hasn't seen a counselor. He hasn't done any of the work. He won't even sit me with while I'm in pain. He has never once in 2 years comforted me while I was balling crying. He has never once initiated a conversation about his A. He doesn't ask me how I'm feeling on a daily. And every time I ask why he didn't read the book or the article, he says I JUST BEEN SO BUSY, I PROMISE TO DO IT SOON but never does. He's clueless about the real work its going to take to reconcile. He's clueless to the trauma I live with daily. He doesn't ever want to talk. He doesn't know how to talk. When I do get a chance to express my pain, I get nothing but SILENCE from him. Complete silence. I dont feel loved or even cared for. I keep holding on hoping to God something will change but after 2 years of no progress, I'm thinking it may be time to move on. I waited this long because I love my H so much and I wanted nothing more than to still be with him. He clearly doesn't see reconciliation as a gift. I have tried to get him to read, to talk, to see a counselor but he never seems to have the "time". It feels like a slap in the face every time I think of the effort he put into his A. He says he loves me but if he truly did love me, I would get even more effort than he gave her. I feel like my world is about to end and there's nothing I can do about it. Can someone please give me some advice because I'm so lost and numb. I need things to change now. I have suffered long enough. I deserve better.

posts: 55   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2021
id 8733468
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leafields ( member #63517) posted at 5:58 AM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

Realistically, what can you accept as being something that 'I don't know' or 'I don't remember' is acceptable. For my XWH, a question like how many times did you talk in a day would probably be ok with those responses. Some of the other things, like when did it start to turn sexual, I would expect an answer.

I gave myself 6 month increments to evaluate and decide whether or not I needed 6 more months. At about 18 months, I realized that he wasn't doing the work and I was done with the M. Unfortunately, he crossed a boundary and I knew it was time to D.

If he wanted to change and save your M, he would have done the work. You really do deserve better. You are an amazing person and worthy of respect. You are worthy of love.

BW, Dday 1: 2/18, Dday 2: 8/19, D final 2/25/21

posts: 1080   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8733490
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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 6:41 AM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

Reread your post but as if it was about your best friend or your sister. What advise would you give them?

You deserve more. Find your strength.

Me: BS 55 (49 on d-day)Him: WH. 64. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 4701   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8733492
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StrugglingCJ ( member #72778) posted at 10:03 AM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

My WW was similar, in that she would say I don't remember, or would say so much else has happened she doesn't now know details. I ended up calling her bluff in a huge fashion by making her think I had full access to her phone and only then with the full on threat of Divorce being filed at that time did she finally start to divulge information, but even now i am certain there are things she will take to her grave.

You have given your husband 2 years of your life to prove to you he gets it, that he will put more effort in to fixing what he broke than he put into breaking it in the first place. My question is.. Has he really put any effort in at all, did you ever ask or recieve a time line? Does he do things differently now or is he just hoping that with enough rugsweeping it will be forgotten? Because saying I don't know or can't remember is a cop out, he will know, he does remember, just doesn't want to say it to you for fear of hurting you more or pushing you to the point that divorce is your choice. Waywards never realise that the truth is the ONLY thing they can offer, and if they don't then R is very unlikely.

WW caught in EA May 17
DDay Mar 19 it was full PA
Struggling for R, but still trying.

posts: 242   ·   registered: Feb. 10th, 2020   ·   location: Essex
id 8733499
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 11:49 AM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

He’s been able to sweep this under the rug for 2 years.

He’s not trying to reconcile — sadly only you are. He’s avoiding and continuing to lie to you.

Here’s my observation. You have some choices here.

You heal yourself. He’s shown you he’s not going to help you. So you need to help yourself. Get counseling. Read a book in surviving infidelity. Listen to podcasts.

But make your healing YOUR priority.

Second, accept he’s NOT going to do anything to help you. Period. He’s not answering questions. He’s not holding your hand. He’s not giving you a hug when you need it.

Stop fighting for something you will not get.

Third, you need to decide if this marriage is what you want in the state it is in. Only you know if you want to remain married to someone who values you so little. Only you can decide if you want to have a spouse who only cares about himself. Only you know if you want to continue to live this frustrating existence. Only you can decide if an emotionally disconnected marriage is something you can accept.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:53 AM, Wednesday, May 4th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11863   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8733509
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ISurvivedSoFar ( Guide #56915) posted at 12:33 PM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

The ball is in your court to put the boundaries around yourself to heal.

When I try to get answers, he either gets angry or says he doesn't want to talk or makes excuses for why he cannot give me the answers I need.

You aren't asking difficult questions. He's not willing to do the hard work for R. Part of his work is answering your questions and dealing with his own shame. He's using you as a mirror - if you are sad he cannot deal. That's on him to fix.

I dont feel like I will ever heal.

This part is up to you - not what you want I'm sure - but we can only rely on ourselves to heal. You can let him know that his refusal to be forthcoming hurts you more. You can also give him a time limit - I need the answers or we will have to change our living situation. I cannot exposer myself to deceit any longer.

Decoupling your healing from his behavior is really important. It is too exhausting to work on our spouses while we have to work on ourselves. So that means you show him you are intent on healing and you will do what it takes to heal up to and including doing it without his inputs. It's up to you of course. You get to put the boundaries you need around yourself.

My WS dragged it out for years - so I got a post nup, and I separated our finances, and I put money away, and I was ready to leave. We co-existed because he was acting as you describe your WS is acting. He refused me so much - the post nup, the timeline, and so on. He was too steeped in shame to have any empathy for me. So off I went doing my own thing. Can you see yourself managing this absent his inputs?

DDay Nov '16
Me: BS, a.k.a. MommaDom, Him: WS
2 DD's: one adult, one teen,1 DS: adult
Surviving means we promise ourselves we will get to the point where we can receive love and give love again.

posts: 2796   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2017
id 8733516
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LIYA13 ( member #62026) posted at 9:48 PM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

Livingingrief,

One of the best piece of advice I got was that the person who broke you into a million pieces cannot heal you. Dont expect them to either. You are the only person that can heal yourself. It is your choice how you do it. You either start living your life how you want to live it or you continue to live a life of misery. He will not ask you about your pain and help you heal because he clearly does not care. He has not asked you how you are and he has not comforted you in two years even when you have been crying. From what you described I can tell you that your H is a narcissist.

Your H is selfish. Ofcourse he knows every detail. He just chooses not to disclose it to you. In the beginning my H kept saying I dont know and I cant remember. These are the famous words of wayward spouses. Im sure alot of BS have heard these words. Eventually I contacted the AP and I also found all the emails pictures and recovered all text messages. Have you not been able gain access to any of his emails or phone messages etc? Has he given you complete access?

He says he loves you. Unfortunately he does not. Telling you he loves you without showing any kind of compassion is not love. If he loved you he would have been there comforting you. Yes he caused the pain and if youre both trying to reconcile then yes he needs to step up and be there supporting you through this pain. Especially acknowledging that he caused this pain. Getting angry and annoyed every time you talk about is not reconciliation. He is avoiding the truth and he cant seem to face up to the mental torture he has caused you.

Generally people who regret show remoarse. They will do everything they can to help their spouse through the difficult times they have caused. They will answer all the questions put forward and give a timeline etc of the events. They will be their for their partners reasurring them and also helping them through any triggers. Your H does not care nor does he sound like he is sorry. If you have been trying to reconcile for 2 years and he has not done anything to support you and the marriage then it truly is a 1 way effort, only from you. He has actually been taking you for granted and i think he believes he has got away with it. When someone gets away with it once and their partner has forgiven them and also rugswept most of the events of the affair I would be worried. Trust me when I say he will cheat on you again when the opportunity comes. Its happened to too many people on here.

I have to also ask...Is loving your H enough to keep you together? Will you continue to be able to love him even though you havent healed and knowing you probably never heal. I wouldnt settle for just love. Its not enough. I would definitely not settle for the words 'i love you' because these words mean nothing if they dont come with the action.

Be kinder to yourself. You deserve so much better and you deserve to be happy. Choose your own happiness. Unfortuntely you will not find it with this man.

posts: 110   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2017   ·   location: United Kingdom
id 8733601
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Naamah ( member #79634) posted at 1:59 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I am facing a similar problem. I'm torn because on the one hand he actually changed and became a great guy. He battled porn addiction, generally sticks to common drinking schedules (drinking was also a problem), hugs me every day (for the first 18 years of our relationship, it was unthinkable), he took over some of my household chores, and has been doing them for the past two years and much more. Our relationship has certainly improved. However, when it comes to his A, everything stands still. He is not interested in the subject, he does not read or search for information. He doesn't want to go to IC or MC because he 'is skeptical of their skills' and that 'they will stick him in the diagrams' and that 'neither of them will know why he did what he did, since he himself does not know it'. He never starts the topic of A, and he gets frustrated when I do. When I ask why he is floating, he replies that he doesn't like to talk about it and is furious with himself (he always insists that not with me) and that he still hasn't forgiven himself for what he did. On the other hand, when it comes to these conversations, he takes full blame and responsibility on himself, but still cannot say what pushed him to make a decision about A and thus push his own principles into the abyss. Of course, there are half-truths like 'I was convinced you didn't love me anymore', 'I went through a breakdown' etc, but that's it. I also got a few 'I can't remember'. He keeps insisting that A has brought him so much stress that he doesn't really remember some of the details. He still haven't shared (or rather tried to share, because he lost the account he used for A, so some steps have to be taken to recover it) their messages. He says it will kill us, that he doesn't want to go back to it, that he doesn't see the point, but he owes me that, so he'll think about it... And topic dies in this point. I don't know how to relate to it, because on the one hand he does a lot and on the other he doesn't do everything I need...

Naamah

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2021   ·   location: UK
id 8733665
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Hannah47 ( new member #80116) posted at 5:43 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I read all of your topics here on SI and they very much reminded me of what I was going through during the first two years after DDay. My husband rarely got angry, but he did avoid the topic, never initiated talking about it, answered with silence and I don’t know / I don’t remember. Or he would just repeat the minimized version that made no sense to me – no true explanation, no clarity, no truth. I’d send him books, articles, reddit or SI threads and then he would not read them until I got very upset about it and nagged him for the 5th time to read it. He would throw me a bone now and then, give some reassurance, and then I would calm down for a while. Then I would get triggered or my thoughts would become overwhelming, and the circle started again. No progress at all. It took two more years for us to start making some progress. Overall, it took him almost 5 years to start giving me the truth, not lies, not minimized versions, but the real truth and honest / uncensored answers. And I’m 100% certain there is more – the most recent piece of information I got was just last night!

I believe this is what brought us to where we are now:

1. I was persistent and I did not hold back. When I was upset, I showed it. I argued, I cried, I repeatedly pointed out inconsistencies in his replies. I brought up things that bother me again, and again, and again. I made it clear to him many times that I will not give up on finding out the truth. I will not settle for his partial explanations, and I will not stop until I know everything there is to know. I made it clear that I lost my patience, that I can’t live like this, and that we are headed towards divorce and not reconciliation - because he is holding back.
This requires of you to be stubborn and brave. Do not be afraid to demand, and do not be afraid of losing him. I often repeated to myself the Jem’Hadar mantra from Star Trek: "As of this moment, you are dead. You go into battle to reclaim your life." And to him another Star Trek mantra: "Resistance is futile". Sorry if this makes it less serious, but it demonstrates well the mode I was / still am in.

2. I demanded that we schedule weekly meetings to discuss and work on problems. We called it "therapy nights". Depending on your free time, this can be once per week or multiple times per week. The important thing is that you stick with it and compensate for any meetings that were skipped due to reasons. From my experience, it is better to have less but longer meetings, than more shorter ones. 1 hour is rarely enough to really start talking.
Use that time to discuss anything you want about your relationship, including the affair. Prepare your topic and your arguments in advance. You can also use that time to read together (this is what we often did). Get an article, forum threads, book chapter, whatever you want to discuss with him, read it then discuss it. Explain why you picked that to read – what resonated with you, give your opinion, ask for his.
Important thing – do not make those meetings about you only – encourage him to suggest topics that he would like to discuss and to find / suggest writings that he would like to read and discuss with you. I guarantee you it will be very awkward in the beginning, and sometimes you might feel it’s pointless, but be persistent.

3. Do your research on why it is important to get a full story. Write down every argument you can find, and you can think of. Vague reasons such as "it will help me heal" are not enough – you need to be able to explain it in more details. For example, "knowing the truth about XY will help me to stop obsessing over it and that is the first step towards healing". Take your time and once you are satisfied with your list of arguments, show it to him and discuss it together at one of your meetings.
During my quest for the truth, I often appealed to emotions (basically, with my eyes full of tears I’d say to him "please, tell me the truth") – just for the record, there was nothing manipulative about it, I didn’t do it on purpose, it was just how I felt back then. And there is nothing wrong with being emotional, but I believe appeal to reason was way more productive.

About counseling – my husband also did not see a counselor. Neither did I. This is something we talked about, and we decided that we don’t want it (we have our reasons). I believe there’s nothing you can achieve in counseling, that you cannot achieve without it. Although, you do need some kind of guidance, but imho books / articles written by professionals are sufficient for that. However, counseling might make things more efficient / faster. Also, I will not argue with plenty of people here who claim counseling was necessary and helpful for them – I fully believe them! So, if you feel that counseling would be beneficial, prepare arguments for why you want to do it and make it non-negotiable!

--------------------------------------------

Now, I want to tell you few more things. I completely understand how you feel. I guarantee that you will not magically stop feeling this way. Contrary to the popular opinion, time does not heal all wounds. You will continue to obsess over details, over inconsistencies in his "explanations", over what you don’t know. It will not get better – it will only get worse! There are people who didn’t get the full truth but whose WS treated them nicely after DDay, and together they constructed a betrayal story that was good enough to move on. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I am not like those people. From what I read, neither are you. If you want to pursue the quest of getting honest answers to all of your questions, to find out everything there is to know, be aware that it might take years more to get that. And even then, there is no guarantee that you will get what you want. And even if you get the truth, there is no guarantee that you will be able to get over it. Then ask yourself is it worth it? Do you want to spend X more years in the state you are now in? Are you willing to fall very low, for a tiny chance of finding out the truth one day? The truth that you might not even be able to handle after all.

I can tell you honestly – if I had known on DDay how miserable my life would be in the following five years, how many life chances would I miss or screw because of his stupid choices, including the choice to not be completely honest from start, how much would attempt to reconcile affect my physical and mental health, I’d leave him right there and then. Yes, we had some very nice, happy moments during these five years. Yes, I love him more than anything and the thought of leaving breaks my heart, but everyone has a limit of how much and what we can handle. I’m getting some honest answers now, but I won’t stop until I’m satisfied with the amount and quality of the answers / explanations. And if that doesn’t happen soon, I’m out. Don’t settle for less than what you need and, once again, do not be afraid of losing him.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Mar. 21st, 2022
id 8733698
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Naamah ( member #79634) posted at 8:54 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Hannah47 - you are a star! I know it is not my threat but thank you so much for so good advice. I will make a plan and put it into practice. I honestly admit that without the help of a psychologist I didn't know where to start, and thanks to you I got some ideas.

Naamah

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2021   ·   location: UK
id 8733728
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