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Newest Member: Gtacch

Just Found Out :
Do you think my marriage is worth saving?


Odonna ( member #38401) posted at 2:32 PM on Friday, March 25th, 2022

You really are doing quite well all things considered. But I HIGHLY recommend that YOU read the book by Linda McDonald (How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair) because it will give you a really good road map as to what to look for in his behavior - and what to DEMAND for yourself - in order for R to be possible at all. Mark it up all you like and then give it to him with a 48 hour deadline to read it and then to come talk to you (which he must initiate). You will soon find out if he can be "woken up" to the work he needs to do, both on himself and to support you through this horror. Right now he is rug-sweeping and we all know here that that never works.

Keep posting dear, and best of luck!


posts: 964   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2013   ·   location: Northern Virginia
id 8725719

The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 3:46 PM on Friday, March 25th, 2022

I'm curious what the approach to get fixed should be.

Your H should be willing to go to counseling. On his own. For himself.

His resistance to this is clear. He has shown you that his pattern has been to ignore the past and just focus on the future.

However your marriage at this point is hemorrhaging. You can’t stop the hemorrhaging if you don’t fix the root cause of the bleeding. And right now, the root cause of the bleeding is his lying and cheating.

If the underlying issues are never addressed, then putting a Band-Aid over some thing is just a temporary fix.

I don’t know why so many cheating spouses are so resistant to therapy. I don’t know if it’s fear that causes them to not want to face what they’ve done and get to the root of the problem, but at this point that is not your issue or your concern.

I think you need to put things in very clear terms for your husband when you speak with him next. I don’t want you to remain angry and argue with him because that will not resolve anything, but communicate to him that you are not willing to except his path to "do your part to fix the marriage" when he was the one that chose to lie and cheat .

Gently explain to him that unless he is willing to commit to counseling, there is very little you can do at this time. Explain that your ability to trust him again will be severely impacted if he doesn’t face his own issues.

The fact that he has already divorced once is telling. I’m not saying he is to blame for a divorce, but I’m saying it is possible that he may be making similar mistakes in his current marriage.

You owe him nothing but to make sure you are heard and he understands how you feel.

It’s up to him to get your marriage back in track. As I stated earlier I did nothing to help my H. He was in his own. If he couldn’t step up I wasn’t going to continue to make excuses and accept less than what I deserved. Game changer.

And I didn’t yell at him. Even when I told him I was D him. It was a statement made in less than 1 minute. I just had many one word answers and left the room.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11852   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8725774

Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 11:44 PM on Friday, March 25th, 2022

Hi super, I am legally separated, the next step is divorce. He lives across the country so it feels like a divorce. He suggested doing it online, I said SUPER, let me know which site you want to use, and I got nothing since.

Legally separated, one more step.

posts: 1945   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2018
id 8725933

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 2:33 AM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

Does her husband know about the affair? Have you spoken to him?

posts: 4332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8725975

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 4:42 AM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

A researcher/therapist interviewed newly married couples to see how they treated each other. He continued to interact with them and finally began to recognized red flags that were there in the beginning. The one constant in divorce was if one spouse treated the other with contempt. This one red flag means the marriage will inevitably fail. This is what’s been going on with you, because you’ve tried everything you know to make a marriage with a man who was not present emotionally. That’s so unfair to you. The best thing you can do is get see an atty and move on.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3296   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8725993

 hi2super (original poster new member #80112) posted at 5:40 AM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

Hi #Odonna. You are not the first one who told me to read that book. I thought it was for cheaters only...based on the title. I already told him to read it but I don't think he has. My IC also suggested me to read "After the Affair". I will need to read that too.

#The1stWife - to WH, the root cause is because our communication. He thinks if we knew how to communicate effective and emotionally support each other, he would be content so he wouldn't have cheated. He told his family that too since his mom talked to my dad occasionally and she said the two of us were too stubborn and said things that the other side didn't like to hear. But I didn't cheat, he did! Her son did! That's why I still can't talk to mother-in-law. I know I will mostly end up yelling at her. She even once told me that this son (she got 3) of hers would never cheat. Again, I was so gullible so I believed everything they said.

We have been seeing the MC who is also his IC. But I don't think she is good at all. I suggested him to see my own MC who I just talked to once before. She seems to have more experience at least. But I don't think he has contacted my MC.

It's hard to talk to him these days so "gently" explaining to him is not easy but I will try. I even shared what I have learned from you guys with my parents today and I still felt agitated...sigh. My mom was worried about my health even though I think I'm feeling fine. I can sleep and eat at least.

I don't know why his first marriage failed. He never wanted to talk about it. He just said ex-wife was bipolar. They didn't get along well. His communication skill was never good so I could imagine. He probably was also cold to her especially when things were bad. Like my parents said, he is not a friendly or warm person. Even WH said his mistress said he was cold when they were dating 20+ years ago. So it's his personality.

He did hear loud and clear when I said I didn't owe him anything during our last MC session. MC asked him if he owed me any. He did say he owed me and my parents a lot. I hope he realized what exactly he owed. I wish he could be like your H who knew what to do. Maybe your H still loved you very much at that time so he was willing to fight. My WH doesn't love me obviously. I told MC that he must still miss the mistress. He said he did think about her occasionally these days since they had been together for the past 1.5 years. It wasn't a fling. They slept at least four times according to him...they did it in the back of her car every time.

#Tallgirl - are you happier now after you separated?

#HellFire - I don't know her husband. I don't even know her, never met her before even I got her phone number and know where she works. This woman is strange to me. According to WH, what she did is just weird. She doesn't like her husband obviously. Things between them hadn't been good for many years. She just didn't want to get divorced because of the kids. She didn't want to have sex with him after their first kid was born. So she forced her husband to do IVF with her so she gave birth to twins. She just wanted the kids to have the same dad. This woman is just incredibly ridiculous to me. She even told WH in the beginning that her husband raped her one night when he got home drunk. Her marriage was definitely messed up before mine. Now it's not only her life or marriage is miserable, mine too since she and WH screwed it up!

#Cooley2here - I don't disagree. He said it himself too - took me granted for years.

posts: 40   ·   registered: Mar. 20th, 2022   ·   location: New York
id 8725997

The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 11:19 AM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

My WH doesn't love me obviously

More importantly he doesn’t love himself.

Your last post put so much in perspective.

I don’t know if your H has the emotional capacity to be the kind of H you deserve or need.

He sounds emotionally closed off and not willing to be more open and honest. I’m not saying this as a criticism because he is who he is. Some things just cannot change. No matter what.

And it may be your H is just not able to be that guy you are looking for. He’s not going to be deeply emotionally connected to you at the level you would like.

The fact the OW said he was cold to her is telling.

I would now suggest a very different strategy for you. Sadly you need to accept he most likely won’t change to be the guy you want (emotional connection).

Maybe you need to determine if you wish to remain in this marriage because this is who he is. Period

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:21 AM, Saturday, March 26th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11852   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8726016

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 1:53 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

Cheaters lie.

Everything you know about her, your lying husband told you.

The rape story may be true,but most likely was either made up by her,or made up for your benefit. See,if you think he's violent, your less likely to contact him. Or she did what many OW do,and she lied to your husband so he could play KISA.

I Bet he would be surprised to find out Everything you've been told about his marriage. He is probably like most BH here. He thinks his marriage is fine.

You need to tell her husband. You have her name. Investigate her on social media. It won't be hard to find him.

He deserves to know.

Plus,you'll be surprised how fast she dumps your husband, and tries to save her marriage.

You say she's so ridiculous. Because the things you've been told aren't true. She's a honewrecker, that's a fact. But everything else came from your lying husband, or she told your husband to justify her cheating on her husband.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:54 PM, Saturday, March 26th]

posts: 4332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8726025

 hi2super (original poster new member #80112) posted at 2:57 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

I'm not sure if I ever want to contact OW husband. Even if he knows, he probably just let it be since he probably cheats the entire time too. Accordingly to WH, one of the reasons she never wanted to have sex with her husband because she was afraid she would get STD since that husband was never home. I really don't want to drain my energy more. I don't think I want to contact her or her husband. I need to move on with my own life.

About emotional connection, I think it IS something he just doesn't have. So once the honeymoon period is gone, he just doesn't know how to continue the connection anymore. That isn't something that can be easier changed, right? Can that also affect the relationship between he and the kids too? He didn't like talking to his mom in the past either, like she was just so annoying to him. His dad has alzheimer so he can't even talk. This son of his rarely cared to do much for the dad. Like you guys said, he is broken in many levels. Time to give up?!

posts: 40   ·   registered: Mar. 20th, 2022   ·   location: New York
id 8726033

Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 3:30 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

Nearly Everything that came out of my ex’s mouth at this stage was a lie. I would believe very little of what he tells you about her, and if there had been a spouse, I would have told them. Think about it Super.

Yes I am more calm than I was before. Ready to divorce. Am I happy ? Happier than when I was married.

Legally separated, one more step.

posts: 1945   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2018
id 8726035

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:20 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

According to your husband. The liar.

The right thing to do is tell her husband

You keep assuming everything this lying, cheating OW has told your husband about her husband is a fact.

You keep assuming everything your lying,cheating husband has told you about the OW,and her husband,is a fact.

Meanwhile, there's this BH on the other side of this. Everyone knows his wife is having an affair,except him. He's knocking himself out to try and please her,not knowing she's fucking another woman's husband.

He's just like every other BH here. And he deserves the truth. You feel you deserve the truth? So why doesn't he?

posts: 4332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8726042

The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 5:16 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

I’m not suggesting you give up on the marriage unless you decide he’s not going to be the kind of H you need.

He clearly has serious issues with relationships across the board.

It is up to you what you do next.

Just know I doubt he will change to become more open and emotionally connected to you. What you decide is up to you.

If the cheating is a dealbreaker then it’s a dealbreaker. But I’m suggesting you stop trying to get him to do ANYTHING in reading books, taking accountability for his affair, changing to be more open and developing a connection with you.

Focus on yourself. Your healing. Your needs in the future you want with or w/out your H.

And stop the marriage counseling. Get your own counselor. Someone just for you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:39 PM, Saturday, March 26th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11852   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8726049

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:59 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

What do you mean by 'my MC'?

I read you to say that your H said, in effect, 'I can't or won't communicate, so I cheated. Now I expect you to change me into a good communicator.'

That won't work. For him to become a good candidate for R, he needs to take responsibility for his own failures, and he needs to change from cheater to good partner. That means: he needs to change himself. You can give him emotional support while he does his work, but it's his work. Only he can do it.

MCs treat the M, but your M didn't fail - he did. He needs to want to change, and he needs the help of a good IC. MC helped us starting d-day. We actually used my W's IC - but she addressed the A first. She never - ever - suggested I did something that caused my W to cheat. But she's unusual.

A good IC for you will be able to help you process your pain out of your body and to be the best you, if that's what you want. MC is probably a waste of time and money right now, though, unless it helps your H do his work.

I can't tell if your M is worth saving. What do you like about it? What do you want to change about it? Do you think you can make it what you want, given that your H will have to change for your M to change?

Once you answer those and associated questions, you'll know if you think it's worth saving - and yours is the opinion that's most important here.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:02 PM, Saturday, March 26th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27082   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8726059

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 7:00 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

Accordingly to WH,

He's a liar.

I bet her husband would be really surprised to find out he's been cheating and raping his wife

posts: 4332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8726063

 hi2super (original poster new member #80112) posted at 9:26 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

#HellFire - I'm not sure if OW's husband really cares. And what if he knows, then he will divorce her? Then WH will probably follow the suit and we will get a divorce too? Then these two cheaters will get to have a happy ending? I'm not sure if they deserve that.

#sisson - He hasn't done anything so how can he still expect to get any emotional support from me? I feel like I'm doing what he used to do to me, to protect myself if I don't get my emotion involved, I wouldn't get hurt at least. Since I got hurt so badly already. I honestly don't know what I like about my marriage. I don't remember when was the last time I was loved or even just wanted. It's not like our marriage was good before he cheated.

#The1stWife - Our current MC definitely doesn't help. I agree it's a waste of money and time too. She doesn't seem to know what to do with couples who suffer infidelity. She is not helping him either as his IC. I don't see any improvement or good suggestion from her. I also implied that he should see a life coach too but they both disagreed.

I am really not sure if WH is really worth saving at this point. He is not doing anything for me except coming to visit the kids. He is not doing any research or studies or read any book that I suggested. He hasn't done anything to help me heal, never tries to understand how I feel. I asked him if he has contacted my own MC. He said counselors were just counselors. To him, it's just someone he gets to talk to on a regular basis, who would agree what or why he did things. I told him that I don't see our MC / his IC has helped much so far. He doesn't seem to bother to do anything about it. And last night, when I chatted with his sis-in-law who he has been staying with the past 7 weeks, it feels like he probably told them that I am so fixated on his cheating. She even asked me if I could truly forget the cheating part, to forgive and forget..I was like who could possibly forget traumas like this??? Obviously, she is the wrong person to talk to when it comes to PTSD. People who never experienced infidelity will never feel the pain. It's lifetime even I don't want to admit it. They all sound like WH even they said they don't want to take sides. But they all have been diminishing the damage caused by his bad choice. To them, it's just a mistake that I should just either forgive or let go. And WH definitely is acting like that too. When I told him today that he needed to fix his mindset that regardless how bad a marriage became, neither spouse should cheat under any circumstance. I told him it's just not ok to cheat so if he doesn't fix his "brain", there is nothing to fix in this marriage. He asked me how we could even tell if that is fixed. I told him that it would show in his behaviors. The mind controls the actions. He keeps convincing me there is no way to tell. Well, only he knows if he will cheat again when time comes. I just don't want to be around when it comes. He still thinks others need to fix their own sh*t too. He said he was also emotionally abused by me over the years. I told him that even if I did emotionally abuse him, I never stopped caring and loving. I didn't check out. He in fact abandoned me a long time ago. He never acted as a good husband. I didn't cheat. I still don't agree when he said that I emotionally abused him. I might have said things I shouldn't have said. But it was always the matter we were talking at the moment. He said a lot of non-sense including name calling and did a lot of immature annoying things to me. He didn't think they were just not right to do to anyone in the first place. I just can't believe he still shifts the blame to me even he said his cheating/lying was wrong. He kept bringing up what the MC said - that's because he didn't get emotional support from me. We were just running in circle each time.

posts: 40   ·   registered: Mar. 20th, 2022   ·   location: New York
id 8726085

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 11:23 PM on Saturday, March 26th, 2022

Typically what happens is, the OW is so busy trying to save her marriage,she drops her OM as if he were in fire. Then the OM/WH realizes he wasn't special, and neither was their affair. It shakes them out of their fog

Nearly all BS require NC with the AP,and full transparency after dday. And they keep a close eye on their WS.

Therefore, it would be very difficult for her to continue with your husband.

Telling the OBS is one of the best things a BS can do after dday. For the OBS, AND for their own marriage.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:24 PM, Saturday, March 26th]

posts: 4332   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8726107

 hi2super (original poster new member #80112) posted at 12:01 AM on Sunday, March 27th, 2022

I really don't care what this OW does in her life as long as she doesn't interfere mine. I am already really tired about the mess OW and WH created. I really don't have the time or energy to do anything with OBS. It's her marriage that she has to deal with. I don't really think her husband cares.

About those books you guys have suggested, do they mention anything to do if reconciliation happens? I am not hopeful since nothing has changed after almost two months.

posts: 40   ·   registered: Mar. 20th, 2022   ·   location: New York
id 8726112

Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 2:04 AM on Sunday, March 27th, 2022

I wish someone had told me. I recently found out that some one close to me knew and never said, it would have saved me a lot of pain and years.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 2:04 AM, Sunday, March 27th]

Legally separated, one more step.

posts: 1945   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2018
id 8726135

Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 2:39 AM on Sunday, March 27th, 2022

These conversations that you are recording sound exactly like a narcissist gaslighting you. Please read up on it.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 3296   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8726139

 hi2super (original poster new member #80112) posted at 4:31 AM on Sunday, March 27th, 2022

#Tallgirl, you were the loyal one who didn't cheat. You cared about your marriage at that time. According to WH, OBS may be a cheater too. This guy is a bad husband and a bad father. He used to compare to this guy and said he wasn't that bad compared to him. I asked him why he compared to the worst. I said you were second to the worst. He didn't like it but he knew I wasn't wrong. But of course, this is all according to what he was told by OW. He doesn't know OBS so no one really knows about their relationship.

The more I talk to him, the more I feel he is becoming a narcissist. I just googled it again and noticed he is having more and more symptoms described online. He is actually back to what he was 1.5 years when EA was discovered. He refused to see MC at that time even I literally begged him several times. He didn't think it would help. Now he looks like he is making effort to see the same MC/IC every week but refused to do anything and keeps telling me that I emotionally abused him over the years. He is using the same excuse now since I told him that he did that to me during one of the MC sessions before. Just so narcissistic!

I feel like I'm dragging my ass to "work with him" or just simply hanging out with him and the kids on weekends now. I really have no desire to do anything with him. I know my kids love him very much and he loves them deeply too. But it's just not enough for me! I'm not happy! I still feel miserable everyday.

[This message edited by hi2super at 4:37 AM, Sunday, March 27th]

posts: 40   ·   registered: Mar. 20th, 2022   ·   location: New York
id 8726152
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