SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have been with my husband for 18 years and just found out about multiple affairs. A little back story... 7 years into our marriage, I found out about his first affair (or the first one I learned of anyway - I'm now convinced that there have probably been more before that). At that point, we separated for a while (almost 2 years). I moved out, but we stayed in each other's lives. He continued on with the woman he cheated with for a while, before that "ran its course" and ended, and she moved away.

We got back together and moved back in with each other after that two year separation, and have been together ever since. I started receiving some random letters in the mail over the summer, that were typed, never hand written, no return address, etc - they went to great lengths to keep them anonymous. They claimed that my husband was cheating with multiple women and I had a right to know. Obviously, I confronted him and he denied everything, but the truth eventually came out (it always does) and he ended up admitting things to me... only because the OW he had been seeing for 18 months found out about yet another woman, got mad, and threatened to expose everything to me. He only admitted the affairs because otherwise she was going to tell me. She is also married, though her husband works out of state, so it's very convenient for them.

He had a break down, claimed he didn't want to be the horrible person anymore, wanted to get help, etc. He doesn't know why he does the things he does, but he knows he is a pathological liar. He admitted that he was selfish, ad the affair just "made him feel good" about himself. He claims that the first affair happened because I "pulled away" in our marriage, and that we never reconnected. That was his excuse for this one too... that we just never reconnected after the first affair and separation. Mind you... that was not for lack of trying on my part. Any time I brought up my concerns, that we were headed down the same road as before, and needed to work on "us", he assured me that he was happy and we were fine. Now I know that was a lie, and pretty much everything that came out of his mouth for the past 2 years was a lie. These are only the affairs I know about... given his behavior, I'm sure there are more.

I received another letter a couple of days ago, letting me know that he STILL wasn't being honest with the OW or me, that there was now even a new woman on the side, and had been several others. He does therapeutic body work for a living, and they said that he's basically a predator - that "every time he closes that door of his, he is looking for his next victim to seduce. He tells them what they want to hear and makes them feel special" etc, etc. It makes me sick to think that he is some sort of manipulative predator, but it seems to be that way. He continues to deny the things claimed in these letters, but eventually they have all been proven to be true, so I have no reason to believe the latest one isn't.

Last night was the last straw... after he swore to me that he had broken everything off with everyone, I found the address of the OW he's been seeing for 18 months and drove by her apartment. His car was parked there at 11:30 at night... so he was staying with her when he told me he was staying with his mother to "take some time away and work on himself". He had his first therapy appointment on Friday.

He clearly hasn't ended the affair, and has continued to lie. I told the OW's husband about their affair and finding him on social media - he seems like a very nice man, and I feel terrible for him. He said that this revelation explains a lot, and he thanked me for having the decency and courage to tell him. I don't know what he is going do, but he's the one who gave me her address so I could see if my husband was there last night - I think he wanted to know too, if it was still going on, and he's in another state, so I went to check.

I lost it last night after seeing him at her place, and had the locks changed in the middle of the night by a 24 hour locksmith. I am obviously destroyed by this, and am facing an uncertain future after almost 20 years of marriage. I am also in therapy, and I'm thankful for that, but kicking him out has been awful. I can barely eat or sleep, and the anxiety is crippling. I know it's the right thing to do... he's a monster, but it doesn't make it any easier. I' hurt, angry, sad, depressed, scared, all at the same time.

He claims he wants to work on himself and he still has hope for us, but how can he say he's working on himself when he's still engaging in the affair(s). This OW is obviously a glutton for punishment too, if she was willing to let him right back in after finding out about others besides herself. He is a very manipulative liar though, so who knows what he's telling her or what she's falling for. I just don't really know which way to go at this point. I am meeting with an attorney on Tuesday to learn about my options. I don't know if I should give him time to continue in therapy and get help, or just cut ties and run. I honestly worry that he has a personality disorder and don't know if therapy will even help him. I don't think he lives in reality, and he'll probably just lie to the therapist too.

Cere, you are doing the right thing. Of course it's not easy. He's been your rock for YEARS and it's going to take a little while for you to break that habit. It DOES get better. And often sooner rather than later too. Just stay the course and have as little contact as possible with him. Keep seeing your IC and work through it. If you don't have kids together, there's no need to talk to him at all aside from through your lawyer.

Him being with OW right now means there is no good reason to give him any more time. He made his choice. More time will be spent manipulating you into a situation where you share him with her instead of improving himself. He can't progress while he's still with her. If he drops her completely and proves it to you, starts being honest, and shows genuine effort, you can slow down or stop the divorce.

I'm sorry that you're finding yourself having to be here, but you'll find plenty of good advice and support. That said, there are several here that are blunt and to the point, not out of rudeness, but from seeing this cycle play out again and again. Anything you read here is not meant to be mean, but to be honest and help you help yourself.

So, This is round two with this guy.

Nothing changed from the first time. How did you two get back together? Did he make the grand promises then, or did you just decide life was better with him?

Remember the saying "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

The letters may be from an AP that wants you out of the picture so she can have him. They may be from another BS that is trying to get out of infidelity. Maybe they're from one of his friends that's tired of his shit. Who knows for sure.

What you do know is that he can't be trusted and that his job puts him in the perfect position to continue to lie and manipulate.

In case it's not obvious, I'm of the opinion that you've given him his one chance and he blew it in spectacular fashion. Consult with the lawyer if the changing of the locks is legal, if it is, you've made the best choice of getting this cancer out of your life.

Good luck!

Wow CeraBella, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. You'll find a measure of comfort here, in that you are not alone.

That someone is writing you these letters is interesting. Whoever it is seems to know a great deal about what he's up to. I'm wondering if it is someone who works with him or is aware of his clients. Of course your WH is trying to convince you that none of it is true. But if I were you, I'd believe every word of those letters. Your WH has been showing you for years who he is. He has zero desire to work on himself. His only desire is to keep the game going.

In my opinion therapy is going to be a waste of time. Based on what you've shared, he is a practiced liar. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you have to give him an opportunity to fix himself. Don't waste your time on trying to figure out what's wrong with him. You will never know, because clearly he will never be honest with you. You've wasted enough time, and time is precious. Even if he has a personality disorder, that's not your responsibility and you certainly shouldn't feel obligated to put up with his total disrespect for you while trying to fix him.

You have done all the right things. Exposing him and the OW to her husband was the right thing to do. I've been divorced for 30 years and to this day I am grateful for the neighbor who clued me in. And seeing an attorney is the right thing to do as well. It's hard, because its like admitting out loud that your marriage is dying. liken it to an experience I had at work. I handle human resources issues and payroll and we had a coworker with terminal cancer. The hardest thing I ever sat through was a meeting with her and my boss during which she told us what her last day at work would be. It was her facing it was over and we all cried. But there are some things in life that you just can't save.

And you are very right that the truth always comes out. I experience that just last week finding out that someone I had a 6 to 7 year relationship with after my divorce has a child with his ex girlfriend, who was married at the time. It took over 20 years but I learned the truth. The good news is, I don't give a damn. You'll get there to if you make a decision to leave this nightmare.

Serial cheater. Not typically good reconciliation material. I'm very sorry.

He's a SERIAL CHEATER involved in an active LTA and other multiple affairs, file for D, expose him with everyone and get tested for STDs/STIs. RUN !!!

Three men have told you he’s not worth it. Believe them. I don’t think you have anything to work with because this is his way of life. She’s not an affair she’s just one of many women he loves doing this with. Sex addicts have a very difficult time giving up their addiction. It’s so rare that it’s probably infinitesimal. Your best bet is to get a good lawyer and plan on having him out of your life for the rest of your life.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 10:23 PM, Saturday, October 23rd]

He claims he wants to work on himself and he still has hope for us, but how can he say he's working on himself when he's still engaging in the affair(s).

He can't. When you think about the mental gymnastics a cheater might go through in order to provide himself with permission to act on his urges, it's easy to see that there can't be any work being done if he's still cheating. Those mental gymnastics, all the stories he's told himself to make cheating okay, have to still be in place and valid in his mind for him to go to that woman's apartment.

Quite frankly though, it absolutely does NOT matter what he wants. What matters is what YOU want. You've got 18 years invested in this relationship and that's nearly two decades of your life. So you might be feeling pressured by "the sunk cost fallacy". After all this time, it's probably hard to imagine your life without your WH in it. But there's another way to think about that. When we apply the sunk cost fallacy to adultery, we're like a greyhound on a racetrack, chasing the bunny and never, ever catching it. We figure we've been running for this long already so what's the harm in going a little longer? After all, that bunny looks pretty tired and wouldn't it be a shame if he finally learned his lesson and went on to be a perfect bunny for some other runner. Here's the deal though, time keeps marching on. If you had left this guy the first time he cheated, you'd be 11 years into a new life by now. You might have met someone wonderful. You can't know what was on that other path because you chose this one. But now... you are at the same crossroads again, forearmed with the knowledge that the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. And it really doesn't matter one iota what the cheater wants. What do YOU want? Take your time if you need to. Don't let anyone pressure you. NO ONE can give you a single day of your life back, and if there was ever a time when it's okay to be completely selfish and think of no one other than yourself, this is it.

Thank you, to everyone who commented. I know that I already know my answer, that there's no way that I can forgive him or move past this. I guess I'm just waiting for the shock of the newest information to wear off. It's been hard to come to terms with, probably because he's been a part of my life for so long. He's been with me for practically all of my adult life - and I think that's part of the problem. I was young (and naive) when I met him and fell for a lot of things that I know now would be red flags for narcissistic behavior. I think he was able to manipulate and gaslight me into seeing the version of him that he wanted me to see. The world looks a lot different at 40, as opposed to 22.

I went out for a drink with a friend tonight, who knows about my situation, and she also brought up the idea of a sex addiction. I've heard the term, but to be honest I hadn't ever really put any effort into learning anything about it. Some basic research tonight has not given me anything encouraging to work with - and I have access to peer reviewed journals on behavior/mental health, so it's "real" research, not just googling. It seems to be about as resistant to treatment or change as some of the ingrained antisocial personality disorders, and it's very possible that this is what he's engaged in. So even if he did commit to therapy, I wouldn't hold my breath for a positive outcome. He's also admitted to me in the past few weeks that he's a pathological liar, and he's aware of this about himself, so what prevents him from just lying to the therapist to avoid judgement. He HATES being judged by others - he's very protective of his "public image" so to speak. When I blew him up to friends and family after the first affair I found out about, he was livid.

He has also displayed some concerning behavior in the past, when we separated after the first time. I moved out and he stayed in the house. He became very concerned with what I was doing, who I was spending time with, etc. It was like he couldn't stand the idea of me moving on, or even worse, seeing someone else (not that I would have until we made a final decision). He did things that would qualify as stalking in most cases, and it was honestly quite creepy. When I confronted him about it, he insisted I was delusional and hadn't actually seen his car drive by, or that I hadn't seen him standing in the front yard of the townhouse I was renting at the time.

Right now, he's being agreeable enough and giving me the space that I've asked for. I told him that I changed the locks and didn't want him here, and he was fine with it and just asked me to set some stuff on the front porch for him today. I anticipate that his docile demeanor right now is due to the fact that he is still caught up in his A, and who knows how many others on the side, and he thinks that he will be able to promise me the moon and worm his way back in again when gets tired of playing house with the OW. I'm sure the fireworks will start when he realizes that I am serious, and not backing down on my boundaries this time. Hence, the meeting with the attorney next week.

He may (or may not) be a full-on narc, but what you've describe is at the minimum narcissistic traits. That makes your situation particularly troubling. There's quite a bit of online information if you type into your browser "divorcing a narcissist". We've had a number of members in the Separation/Divorce section who had to deal with that too, and it's pretty unpleasant. One technique that can help you now is called "gray rock". Try typing "gray rock psychopath" into your browser and reading the articles you find. In a nutshell, it's all about presenting less of a target, being boring like a little gray rock.

I'm sorry this is happening to you. Your situation doesn't look good. That said, sometimes when a cheater realizes what his BS is actually serious, they snap out of it and get down to work. I think the key there is valuing yourself and refusing to settle for less than what you deserve... even though it's super scary to hold that line. My fWH and I had been married for over 30 years when I caught him out in a Craigslist binge which went on for about 9 months; multiple partners, varying degrees of emotional attachment. He did feature himself to be in love with that last one and he'd been doing quite a bit of "future-faking" with her. On dday, I told him I wanted a divorce, that I didn't care to hear his explanations or excuses, I was done. He could split the banking and I'd find us a lawyer. After stewing on that for a week, he was the one who wanted 30 days to prove to me he could be trusted. Of course, he got busted trying the "let her down gently" maneuver because he just couldn't stand the OW being mad at him. At that point, he had about 30 seconds to either be "all in" or "all out". He ghosted the OW from that moment and that was nearly 7 years ago. So... it's not impossible that your WH might pull his head out of his hindquarters, right? IMHO, you're doing the very best thing that can be done at this point by taking the upper hand and refusing to put up with anything less than complete capitulation on his part. He should be willing to get therapy and to devote himself to making meaningful change in his flawed character.

Not gonna lie, if it's sex addiction, it's a tough row to hoe for everyone, especially you. We have a sex addiction thread in the I Can Relate section you might check out. But as you can imagine, the WS gets to blame their illness to some degree. I mean, in time they have to fully address that, but in so many ways, they're a patient in a medical sense. It's hard not to get dragged into the treatment plan and end up being an accountability partner which no doubt would feel more like being the marriage police. So yeah, pitfalls. But... people do get through them.

What's important right now, IMHO, is that you are serving yourself first. You're at that same crossroad again, and maybe 40 feel old to you, but from where I'm standing (old enough to be your mom), you're young, and you've still got lots of time to plan a wonderful life. Don't think about what your cheating WH wants. Don't get bogged down in his potential. Put yourself first. He has taken his turn to do what he wanted. And now... it's your turn.

((hugs))

Do you have counseling for yourself? If not I suggest it b/c deciding to Divorce a pathological liar and sexual addiction personality (like a predator) will be challenging.

So it’s okay for him to cheat but you cannot move on, based on your description of his behavior when you separated. That’s indicative of what a total nut job he is - not living in reality.

And yes the middle aged adult in you is stronger and wiser than the 22 year old young woman who was easily manipulated and believed the lies he told all those years.

I don’t see much to work with in terms of Reconciliation.

And you deserve better. Those anonymous letters are more telling of the "real" guy you are married to. And if it is any of the OW who wrote them then it’s just sad that they are falling for his lies and manipulative behavior. But that’s not your fault.

Save those letters as proof of his behavior b/c it will help you in D negotiations. His livelihood is at stake snd you have a bargaining chip.

Sometimes men cheat because they "fall in love" with another woman. It’s twisted but at the end if the day, maybe they can change and realize the pain and destruction they are causing, enough so they would not do this again. You will find those men in the wayward section of this forum.

Sometimes some men date a bunch of women at the same time, giving them all sort of pretty stories, but ultimately they are just using them without care. Is it for sex? For ego? Something else? I don’t know. What is important to understand is that these men will lie and manipulate without a care for their victims. You will find those men posting in the cheaters forums of reddit etc…

Your WH appears to be in the second category. Is it a realistic expectation that this man, who manipulates women into his bed without a care in the world, will change and become the husband that you desire? I’m guessing the answer is no. It is ok to say : I love this man but I can’t be with him for my own good.

I wish you the courage to make decisions that is best for YOU,

Post often!

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 12:46 PM, Sunday, October 24th]

And you deserve better. Those anonymous letters are more telling of the "real" guy you are married to. And if it is any of the OW who wrote them then it’s just sad that they are falling for his lies and manipulative behavior. But that’s not your fault.

Save those letters as proof of his behavior b/c it will help you in D negotiations. His livelihood is at stake snd you have a bargaining chip.

Yes, these letters have been very telling. He denies everything in them at first, and claims that someone is just out to really hurt him for no reason, but when the truth eventually comes out, everything in them has been accurate. I have no reason to believe the latest one is any different, and that one is a little more disturbing than the others, since it really makes him sound like some sort of predator. There are very clear cut ethics requirements in his profession, and if he is going after/seducing his clients, then his license and livelihood is most definitely on the line. All it takes is for one person to come forward and file a complaint.

As I have been going through finances and paperwork ahead of meeting with the attorney, I am discovering more debt than I was aware of that he has hidden from me, and now I'm concerned about that and what that means for me going forward. Thankfully we have no kids, and I do have a good job, but we live in an expensive city. I will know more about my options after meeting with the attorney, but I think I'm almost more concerned for how this will affect my future financially than I am worried about losing him at this point. I think it seems apparent that he is a lost cause as far as any sort of reconciliation. I'm just trying to figure out how to move on with minimal impact to my future.

He may (or may not) be a full-on narc, but what you've describe is at the minimum narcissistic traits. That makes your situation particularly troubling. There's quite a bit of online information if you type into your browser "divorcing a narcissist". We've had a number of members in the Separation/Divorce section who had to deal with that too, and it's pretty unpleasant. One technique that can help you now is called "gray rock". Try typing "gray rock psychopath" into your browser and reading the articles you find. In a nutshell, it's all about presenting less of a target, being boring like a little gray rock.

It's interesting that you brought this up, because I think I have been subconsciously doing this already. I have only been as confrontational as I need to be to establish my boundaries, and have not had any communication with him other than what is necessary. It's like I've been trying to "make myself invisible" in the hopes that he will be so preoccupied with the fantasy life he's created for himself, that he will forget all about me and leave me alone. I know, from the first time around, how awful he can be with his tantrums when he isn't getting his way, and I just don't want that fight this time around. I'm so tired from all of his crap that I just want him to vanish so I can move on and begin rebuilding. I know that isn't likely though... as soon as the novelty of playing house with the OW wears off he will be back. From past experience it usually only takes a few weeks. Once the mundane reality sets in and the A isn't a "fun forbidden fantasy" anymore, he takes off.

I'm also not entirely sure where the letters are coming from... maybe it is someone who just wants to expose him for the trash that he is, but it also could be a jealous OW who wants him divorced so she can have him for herself. Honestly, I'd pay someone to take him off my hands at this point, but I have heard horror stories in the past of wives who end up targets of the OW's stalking or harassment. I just want to walk away quietly and be left alone. I don't think I could take another separation like we had after the first time I found out about him cheating. It was awful... the emotional abuse and the stress it caused nearly killed me. I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, and could barely function.

I know, from the first time around, how awful he can be with his tantrums when he isn't getting his way, and I just don't want that fight this time around.

I think you'd be smart to buy a VAR (voice-activated recorder) and keep it on your person at all times. Check into wiretapping laws in your area obviously, but even if you were forced to announce loud and clear that you're recording, it might keep your WH's mouth in check. Ask your attorney about it when you're there.

Because there are so many red flags pointing to narcissism or narcissistic traits, I think you're right to be concerned about him throwing tantrums and being awful with you once he realizes you're serious. Here's the thing though, he doesn't get to scare you or make you fear for your safety. If that happens, call 911 and get the police involved. Minimal contact can protect you from the charm offensive and bids for sympathy, but when the narc fails to get a reaction, he often turns to rage. You don't have to put up with that. Talk with your attorney about it so that you've prepared your reaction ahead of time.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 9:05 PM, Sunday, October 24th]

Because there are so many red flags pointing to narcissism or narcissistic traits, I think you're right to be concerned about him throwing tantrums and being awful with you once he realizes you're serious. Here's the thing though, he doesn't get to scare you or make you fear for your safety. If that happens, call 911 and get the police involved. Minimal contact can protect you from the charm offensive and bids for sympathy, but when the narc fails to get a reaction, he often turns to rage. You don't have to put up with that. Talk with your attorney about it so that you've prepared your reaction ahead of time.

Yes, and he's had a domestic restraining order against him in the past - from the woman he was with before me. I didn't find out about it until our first separation, when I was looking for some paperwork at the house and found old police reports he had shoved in the back of a drawer I never went in.

I'm "eyes wide open" this time around, and at the first sign of stalking, I will not hesitate to call the cops. My therapist said that stalking is enough to get a RO, it doesn't have to escalate to direct threats, violence, or intimidation.

On another note, I spent the night packing up all of his stuff and putting in the garage for him to retrieve tomorrow. It's a little cathartic to see all of his stuff gone - like "cleansing" my space of him, but still also a little tough. I know that this is how it has to be, and he will likely never change at this point, but it's hard to flip that switch overnight on 18 years together. I go back and forth between wanting to break down, cry, and feel sorry for myself, and getting mad, feeling empowered for setting a boundary finally, and a little bit of excitement for what the future could hold on my own. Unfortunately, there is a little fear associated with being on my own too, but I'm sure there will be more good than bad eventually.

Thanks again for everyone's comments and support.

((Cere))). Please make sure that you use the resources of this site to help you on this very difficult journey. The healing library, the practical primer and the wisdom of its members. Take care of yourself! Make sure you eat, stay hydrated, see your doctor, exercise and keep busy. He is who he is and it can’t be your problem anymore. Take one day at a time, keep reading and keep posting. Remember there is no easy fix, no magic cure…..you have to continue to dig deep and wrap your head and heart around the road that you have to travel and you will find peace and you will survive. There is no time limit so don’t add any additional stress. Be on guard and lean on your IRL support. Sending you strength.

CereBella, sorry you are going through this.

As far as you know, your STBXWH has cheated the entire M. You have no definitive proof, but based on what you DO KNOW, it is certainly possible, and IMO, quite likely.

I'm glad you are now seeing him for who he is and it sounds like you are pretty firmly heading towards D. I think you are making the right move. He sounds the type to try to lure you back in with false R promises, and to continue his ways.

I think that most BS's say that R is worth considering. Your case sounds like one that it is NOT.

I would suggest that you start the 180 with your WH and once you file, block all of his numbers, email, etc. I don't think that there is any benefit to you in communicating with him.

Stay strong! I hope your family and friends are a help to you.

BS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:13 AM, Wednesday, November 3rd]

((Cere))). Please make sure that you use the resources of this site to help you on this very difficult journey. The healing library, the practical primer and the wisdom of its members. Take care of yourself! Make sure you eat, stay hydrated, see your doctor, exercise and keep busy. He is who he is and it can’t be your problem anymore. Take one day at a time, keep reading and keep posting. Remember there is no easy fix, no magic cure…..you have to continue to dig deep and wrap your head and heart around the road that you have to travel and you will find peace and you will survive. There is no time limit so don’t add any additional stress. Be on guard and lean on your IRL support. Sending you strength.

Thank you... I have already found the forums and resources on this site to be very helpful. I'm glad I stumbled across it when I did. I have been struggling with extreme anxiety since finding out about this and kicking him out, so I have an appointment with my therapist tomorrow to discuss adding a short term anti-anxiety med for me. I can't eat when I get super stressed like this and I'm starting to feel pretty awful from not being able to eat or sleep.

As far as you know, your STBXWH has cheated the entire M. You have no definitive proof, but based on what you DO KNOW, it is certainly possible, and IMO, quite likely.

I'm glad you are now seeing him for who he is and it sounds like you are pretty firmly heading towards D. I think you are making the right move. He sounds the type to try to lure you back in with false R promises, and to continue his ways.

I think that most BS's say that R is worth considering. Your case sounds like one that it is NOT.

Knowing what I know now, I also believe that he has been cheating the entire time. I think he was probably cheating even before we got married. I think he generally goes for "no strings attached" flings, but every now and then he finds one he thinks he loves. Those are the ones I have ended up finding out about.

He seems more remorseful this time around than he was with the first one, but I'm sure that's because I have finally stood up for myself and kicked him out. He keeps texting me about how much of a mess he's created, and how he is committed to going to therapy to fix his horrible mistakes and become a better person, but I'm sure that's just because his little fantasy, having his cake and eating it too, came crashing down. Now he doesn't have the stable wife and home to come home to, and things are on the rocks with his AP too - since she found out about yet another woman, and I told her husband about the affair too. I believe they are still seeing each other, but things are not a rose colored fantasy anymore and they're having to live with the reality of their actions.

I know he will try to reconcile, but I don't know that I could ever look at him the same or even begin to trust him again, no matter how much therapy he or I go to.

At least you have stood up for yourself.

That’s a step in the right direction by kicking him out.