Newest Member: Butterfly19

Just Found Out :
Painting myself into a corner.

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 reddy (original poster new member #79314) posted at 9:46 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

I guess I should update on my story to date. Afraid it is probably not what most would like to hear.

Up to last Friday, I had my mind set on divorce. Things came to a head that night after we had both had individual sessions with out marriage counsellor. I had stated in that meeting that I was done with the marriage and wanted out. The MC accepted this, but was not very affirming or validating really. The only thing I got out of it was her belief that an open marriage was impossible under the circumstances, as I had told her that I believed that my wife was going to use MC as a way to push for one (she has stated this to her AP), and that for any reconciliation to occur, AP would have to be out of the picture. Also, since her coworkers/friends have been enabling my wife's activities, their friendship would probably need to be reconsidered as they could not be considered friends to the marriage.

My wife had her session two days later. She started by bringing the MC a bouquet of flowers. Seems like a but of a manipulative trick to me, but I guess she did make space in her schedule for us. Whatever. My wife gets home two hours later - I had gotten only one hour - and says her session went very well. Apparently, the MC said that my wife was "fairly justified" in having the affair and that she should maintain contact with AP. I told her to go away and slept in the basement.

The following morning she comes down and gives me the tears and runs the guilt trip about giving up on the marriage. Goddamn it, but I folded and committed to working with her on it. Keep in mind, nothing has changed as far as her story, or stance on anything that has happened here. Nothing. She continues to say we both committed infidelity, and that it was me who drove her to it, etc. Saturday and Sunday were good, until Sunday evening she comes to me and says she wants to see AP on wednesday at the bar for a drink because she has some questions for him. I say no, not happy about that. She tells me the MC told her she could stay in contact with him as he is "good support". Riiiight. SO, thinking, well if she is going to persist, may as well give her the rope she needs to hang herself with.

I think that part of her reluctance to divorce right now also stems from the fact that she is the higher income earner. I have seen messages from her coworkers sending her job postings for me and saying things like "these could be very useful to us". When I asked my wife what that meant, she said they meant of us - as in her and I - yet the messages make clear that "us" refers to her and her coworkers. I think she may just be looking to get me into a higher paying job so that she would not be on the hook for child support, etc.

AP is not vaxxed so cannot go to the bars. I catch their text conversation and the thing that stands out to me is she tells him she needs to talk to him about "procedures, not feelings". What procedures, exactly? She has stated in the past that both her and AP want to do it all over again, so right away I start thinking that DDay #2 is right around the corner. But because he is not vaxxed their meeting doesn't go ahead.

However, on Thursday she is late coming home from work. I check the location of her phone and she has stopped at his house. She tells me she is late because someone had a big announcement at work. AP was not home, but she dropped a letter off at his house. I haven't been able to find out the contents of the letter, but it seems to be of some importance, because she keeps talking about it with her friends, and she tells AP that "the ball is now in your court". Frankly, I think this letter is her last ditch attempt to get him to open up to a more serious relationship with her. He has yet to respond, and her mood shows how she feels about this. She is also texting her friends and asking things like "does this mean it's all over", etc. Clearly there is more to her feelings for her AP than she lets on. Remember, she has previously written sappy love poetry about him, but insists that they are "just words on a page" and mean nothing.

But there a more clues to her feelings. She texted him this week to have him send pictures of him in his "sexy" coveralls. Now all of a sudden, she wants me to wear coveralls during sex! Also, her musical tastes have changed to match his. Previously anytime I would change the radio to the hard rock/metal station, she would change it and say "I hate the (name of station)". Now she is listening to it on the ride to and from work. Downloading and listening to NIN and Five Finger Death Punch, etc. - all music that I have never heard her listening to. Strange no? The amount of mental space and energy she is devoting to this guy goes way beyond "just friends".

I have given this relationship sincere effort this week doing all the things she has stated she wants to see from me. But she gave me two days, before getting into contact with AP, and continuing to try and monkey branch to him. So far, he hasn't responded to her letter. She did find one of my spyware apps on her phone this weekend and removed it. But redundancy. So maybe she will get complacent thinking that her texting is now secure.

Insofar as reconciliation goes, my feelings for her have definitely cooled. I guess I still love her, in some way, but it just isn't what it was before. I still find myself anxious and tense around her, but am trying, I guess. But she clearly is not putting the effort it in, but is a pretty good faker. I guess about what you would expect from a cheater.

Right now, I guess reconciliation is being driven mostly by the kids and the fact that I hate the idea of putting them through a divorce and also by financial considerations. I could probably make it on my own with my relatively low wage, but the margin would be thin - very thin. Nonetheless, this marriage almost certainly has an expiry date. At least I can tell the kids that I tried, even though my commitment to it is paper thin.

I am still working in the background on divorce. Gathering documents, which is complicated by the fact that some of the documents have to come from her. The other things is that her friends are making me out to be sneaky and dangerous, as in potentially violent. As such, I am taking steps to prevent these sorts of accusations such as moving my firearms offsite so that they cannot be used as pretext to evict me from the home or for a restraining order. That, and I need to sit down this week with a mortgage broker to see just what I could potentially qualify for.

Her father is also now involved and giving her a lot of really bad outdated advice on divorce and custody. He has planted in her mind the idea that I would have to walk away with nothing. Both him and her agree that she would go for full custody of the kids and that I would have to walk away from the house without even so much as the equity in the house or the property. He says that he would "allow" me to visit the kids occasionally. Sorry grandpa, but that may be how it worked in 1979 when your wife divorced you for cheating on her (while pregnant, no less), but things have changed since. Marital property, equity in the house, and custody are now 50/50 more or less by default unless they can prove abuse, neglect, or some other grave misdeed.

My wife says that her grounds for going for full custody would be my low income, and my - by her diagnosis only - PTSD from Afghanistan. I have never sought treatment for PTSD because I have never suffered from PTSD arising from my experience in Afghanistan. Nonetheless, my wife says so, so I guess I must have it! Right? That's how it works, isn't it? Right. Again, the potential for an accusation of violence is high here as well.

Anyhow, I am struggling with some really dark feelings of negative self worth right now for caving to this instead of just straight up telling her to hit the bricks. I feel like a dupe, although I told her straight up that I still can't really accept her story. She says the text messages were well written, but that's the problem, they are too well written. And I have caught her in so many lies that I can't accept her explanation at face value. But I have allowed myself to give her the benefit of the doubt. She certainly has done a masterful job of planting those seeds of doubt. And I hate her for it.

I guess that's it for now. Any advice on how to deal with this would be appreciated. I feel like I have painted myself into a corner here. Probably because I have. FML.

posts: 20   ·   registered: Aug. 23rd, 2021
id 8690341
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 10:08 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

Go look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why you are willing to accept the unacceptable.

Get some self respect. A lot of marriage counselors are rugsweeping morons and it looks like you got one.

posts: 6685   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8690351
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 10:10 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

However, on Thursday she is late coming home from work. I check the location of her phone and she has stopped at his house. She tells me she is late because someone had a big announcement at work.

Cheaters lie a lot. She stopped off for sex.

posts: 6685   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8690352
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 10:12 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

And I have caught her in so many lies that I can't accept her explanation at face value. But I have allowed myself to give her the benefit of the doubt. She certainly has done a masterful job of planting those seeds of doubt. And I hate her for it.

No man. You are your biggest problem. You know the truth.

You are the only one that can keep yourself in this.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:24 PM, Sunday, September 26th]

posts: 6685   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8690353
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Blandy ( member #79252) posted at 10:25 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

Why are you doing this to yourself?

posts: 76   ·   registered: Aug. 8th, 2021   ·   location: TX
id 8690354
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fareast ( member #61555) posted at 11:05 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

Very simply: Always value yourself.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2822   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8690359
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 11:11 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

Reason 8,976,436 for why MC is a waste of time and money after DDAY.

Coveralls? Really?

Really?

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49 Married: Feb. 1996 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2:

posts: 4301   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8690360
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 11:31 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

The objective is to survive the trauma of infidelity and remove it from your life.

We have tried to tell you look at actions not listen to words because surprise surprise waywards are liars.

You have reacted to all her words wile her actions show she is planning an exit. Right now she is pushing the AP to go legit with her and when he says yes she will leave you and the kids, fight for CS and protect as much as she can legally, meanwhile you will face a bigger gut punch from this than initial Dday because divorce seems to be your biggest fear.

1) verify with MC that they said it was ok to have an affair to save the marriage, VR this if legal in your state, then if true contact your state’s therapist board, the one that certifies this MC and report them. There is a code of conduct & ethics they must follow and a MC supporting an affair breaks that. Having said that I doubt your wayward was told this, hence her actions to try and get AP to commit. She was likely told stop and it’s freaked her out. Did you check she was there the whole time? She could have just dropped off flowers and met AP.

2) retain a lawyer, not being the breadwinner does not harm you, a good lawyer will use that to your advantage because with breadwinners vs homemakers cases a lawyer will make sure your covered to bounce back on your feet.

Detach, stop fking talking to this rotten human because you are being manipulated, she knows you don’t want to leave and is TORTURING you, inflicting more trauma you’re not registering. NC her, don’t update her to your life, ignore her if you must and walk away when she’s in a room. Your not painting yourself into a corner, you’re willing walking in front of a firing line.

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 175   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8690361
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 11:37 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

You are Her Plan B or C. Is that good enough for you? Why are you doing all this?

State what you need to stay in the relationship and then start the D process until she does it, fully.

1) NC with the AP. Completely.
2) timeline of her affair.
3) prove she no longer has that man in her heart more than you and sees him as a piece of shit
4) iC with a therapist that is a specialist in Infidelity
5) completely drops the toxic friend group
6) starts treating you as the most important man in her life and one and only.

No compromise.

And no more discussion.

File for D and begin disconnecting until she does all of this.

As for the kids, I forget how old, but tell them in an age appropriate way that mommy loves another man instead of Daddy but you both love them.

My friend it’s the only path she is giving you. Take it until she becomes a safe partner again. That’s not likely but the only way to get her there is to show you mean business.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3199   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8690362
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 11:39 PM on Sunday, September 26th, 2021

And ps: as long as she has any contact w the AP, there is no marriage and no path but divorce.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3199   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8690363
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 12:21 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

Serve her. You will make out in the divorce. It’s hard for me to read what you’re writing. Your tolerance for abuse is extremely high.

posts: 141   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8690365
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wifehad5 ( Administrator #15162) posted at 12:28 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

Have you spoken with a good attorney to find out what to expect? Knowing might help with your decisions.

Your MC is either useless, or your WW is lying about what she told her. You might want to ask the MC if she actually did tell your WW that her OP is "good" support or not.

FBH - 50 FWW - 50 (BrokenRoad)2 kids 14 & 18
The people you do your life with shape the life you live

posts: 54770   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2007   ·   location: Michigan
id 8690367
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 12:39 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

I can't believe you're still dealing with these. And I can't believe the people still telling you what it takes to reconcile.

Dude, get as far away from her as possible. Space travel is now possible for ordinary people. If possible, send her and have her tie-rope accidentally snapped. If not, go yourself.

posts: 501   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8690368
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BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 12:47 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

reddy,

The following morning she comes down and gives me the tears and runs the guilt trip about giving up on the marriage. Goddamn it, but I folded and committed to working with her on it. Keep in mind, nothing has changed as far as her story, or stance on anything that has happened here. Nothing. She continues to say we both committed infidelity, and that it was me who drove her to it, etc. Saturday and Sunday were good, until Sunday evening she comes to me and says she wants to see AP on wednesday at the bar for a drink because she has some questions for him.

Are you kidding me? Read that paragraph again and ask yourself if a friend wrote this out and sent it to you, what would you say? You would ask him if he was nuts. You would tell him to divorce her immediately. She is a liar, manipulative, toxic, and a half dozen other foul things. You need to start valuing yourself and more importantly, protect your kids. They're observing all this nonsense and picking it up. It is time to extricate this person from your life. File for divorce as soon as you can and implement the grey rock with your STBXW.

posts: 231   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8690370
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BoundaryBuilder ( member #78439) posted at 1:17 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

I can't even....Reddy, your W actions are NOT the actions of someone who wants to "work on the marriage." Jeeeeeez. Remember, ACTIONS not WORDS are what to pay attention to. She is stalling for time. It sounds like she is getting HER ducks in a row to D you. And, I am afraid, to lay the groundwork for her latest grift re: custody. The latests grift = you suffer from combat PTSD when you don't. She will have to document this somehow. Which will take time. I would be concerned if I were you. Are you carrying a VAR with you at all times? Are you documenting all emails, texts etc.? Please say you are! DOCUMENT this shit.
You're putting up with her abuse because you're afraid your kids would be LOSING something if you D? How about reframing this - they GAIN you as the sane parent and a safe home for their time with you. Again, if your W earns more money than you do, voila you get child support and maybe even some spousal support. Get serious about the D paperwork and get specific with your lawyer about all of this. Documents that come from her? HELL NO. Talk to that lawyer about possible paperwork subpoenas, etc.
Again, you are already a single parent. Your W is selfish. Wouldn't be surprised if she spends $$ on herself A LOT - lunches with her team of grifters, drinks out with the grifters, clothing, facials etc. etc. So there may be more money in your budget when you manage your own money than you expect.

Married 31 years w/one adult daughter
ME:BW 62
HIM:WH 65
13 month texting EA with high school X who fished him on Facebook 43 years later
PA=15 days spread over final 3 months
DDay=April 21, 2018
Reconciled

posts: 52   ·   registered: Mar. 4th, 2021
id 8690373
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 1:41 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

The last thing you need from me is to pile on to what others have said, but really, what the hell are you doing? I would call up the MC immediately and ask that person if the advice given is consistent with the story told by your wife. If the MC equivocates in any way regarding NC with the AP, drop her immediately. That person is an incompetent idiot and a money grabber.

The only rational thing to do is divorce your wife immediately. Your children will survive. If you stay, you will be run over by your terrible wife forever. You need to carve out your own life. Get a lawyer and go for spousal support. Stop the nonsense and move on. As one responder stated, it is difficult and I would like to add very painful to read your story.

posts: 430   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8690377
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gemini12 ( new member #78670) posted at 2:22 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

I've been following this 'story' since the beginning.

I admit I am jaded. But does anyone else think this is a work of creative writing?

Seriously, who would behave like this in real life?

Oh well, carry on.

posts: 49   ·   registered: Apr. 18th, 2021
id 8690385
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ButAnyway ( new member #79085) posted at 2:36 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

… and this is the type decision a BH makes when he is prioritizing hope over reality.

reddy, seriously, you need to go to the nearest mirror and have a honest conversation with yourself about what your self respect really means to you.

posts: 34   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8690388
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SpaceGhost0007 ( member #46539) posted at 2:39 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

No one here can help you. The only one who can help you is you!

It’s like watching a physically abused woman going back for more punches and complaining about it.

I no longer feel sorry for you. I am hoping you wake up and go on offense. She is planning on divorcing you and wiping you out.

Better get off your ass and take that very seriously. Get a lawyer and file first and set the terms.

Or you can keep doing what you are now. You have been warned so don’t come back and whine that she is destroying you. You need to wake up. This is tough love and that is what you need.

posts: 145   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2015
id 8690389
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 3:12 AM on Monday, September 27th, 2021

The following morning she comes down and gives me the tears and runs the guilt trip about giving up on the marriage. Goddamn it, but I folded and committed to working with her on it. Keep in mind, nothing has changed as far as her story, or stance on anything that has happened here. Nothing. She continues to say we both committed infidelity, and that it was me who drove her to it, etc. Saturday and Sunday were good, until Sunday evening she comes to me and says she wants to see AP on wednesday at the bar for a drink because she has some questions for him. I say no, not happy about that. She tells me the MC told her she could stay in contact with him as he is "good support". Riiiight. SO, thinking, well if she is going to persist, may as well give her the rope she needs to hang herself with.

I just don't understand what it is you're trying to accomplish at this point. You recommit to the marriage despite the fact that NOTHING has changed, and if I'm reading this correctly, you even ALLOW contact with the AP. Did you check her story yet about whether the MC actually said continued contact was okay? I'm following your threads and this is a woman who bragged to her friends about lying (and beating) a polygraph. How in God's good name have you come up with this expectation that she's going to work on the marriage? Do you understand how far over the top a cheater's got to be in order to pull that polygraph stunt?

I know you're getting a lot of advice to take a tough stance and that you've got REAL skin in the game, kids you don't want to lose time with, a family dynamic and a lifestyle. But there's been NOTHING in your story to suggest that your WW is ever going to change. It looks to me like what you see is what you get as far as your WW is concerned. So, the question you'll need to ask yourself is this... "Is this relationship, as it stands today, acceptable to you?" If it's not, maybe it's time to start treating it like it's not.

You've already seen an attorney. Keep getting your papers together. Don't worry about sneaking at this point. It shouldn't be a mystery to your WW that you're pursuing legal counsel. Talk to that attorney too not only about child support, but about spousal support while you're retraining for higher paying work. Keep a VAR on your person at all times. And if you're still having sex with her (and I can't imagine why you'd do that while she's still seeing her AP), make sure you don't get her pregnant again.

It's all well and good to want R and to explore the possibilities of it. I'm in R myself. But the opening ante for R has got to be that the WS STOPS CHEATING. Until that happens, there are no paths forward.

posts: 4569   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8690391
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