lostindenial (original poster new member #79420) posted at 10:52 PM on Monday, September 20th, 2021
married for 16 years and two teens. My life came crashing down on me on 9/11 when a picture popped up on husband's phone and he hid it hurriedly in the car. I asked to see it and his entire demeanor changed and I knew. I asked him point blank if he was cheating on me and he denied but started deleting things on his phone in a hurry. By the time, we got home the phone was cleaned but I wont give up. he tried to box it as porn addiction but my gut knew better. Asked him to take the phone to forensics people and all they could find was a thumbnail pic of a girl flashing. Ashamed to say that the entire week was horrible truth trickling, more lying and at one point me throwing my phone at him (he actually called the cops on me and then told them to log the call and not come). Till then, I did not know how low he had gone.
I never had any reason to suspect anything before and I never knew his passwords or bills or anything. Both earning and financially secure upper middle class people with wonderful marriage this far.
After much more prodding, threats and some more lying he finally confessed that he had slept with a colleague on a business trip and then started an affair with her for past 18 months. He had no plans to end it. In the past year, I had sensed distance, asked him point blank if something is up and he had ignored me. All my attempts to hang out, get closer were shunned or were excused with I am busy. Now the woman works for him and they have been at it for 18 months. Ashamed to say that my kids saw everything and were involved.
Where am I now?
1) He tells me that he was very cautious hence forensics could not find anymore. He talked to her on WA and Telegram and cleaned every night (by the way, if anyone knows how to restore this, I want to know the details of these chats). He paid cash and bought her gifts on Visa GC.
2) I called the lady and told her to tell her husband or i will call. Her DH called my husband and begged for details and he was not forthcoming. on this Sunday, finally my husband told me everything (at least the part about sex and all) and I made him call the OW's husband and confess. OW had only admitted to flirting.
3) My DH is showing remorse but I am not in a position to trust anything. I am dying of hurt and go between anger, grief and everything else.
4) He has shared all his social media and financial information and accounts( did I tell you he is sharp with hiding though). We have agreed on a post nup( I get everything except his retirements if he cheats again). He has agreed to have a spyware on all computers ( can someone recommend one please). I have the humility to know that he can still cheat.
5) He wants to be with me and confesses that he did it out of attention and sex ( we do have a very poor sex deprived marriage due to me and he has complained about it for years. It hurts me physically during and after sex and I have been to doctors). He also has said to her husband in front of me that he would never leave me and he loves me ( I have clarified to him that he neither loved or respected me so he should not use these words) and he will spend rest of his life fixing it and atoning for it. I have warned him that he does not know what he is saying right now.
6) Both of us have agreed to do independent therapy- I for having to deal with this and he to understand why he did it
7) I have enough self esteem to know that I did not cause this and he alone is accountable so I have no guilt in this
Now to the issue- My kids have a few friends whose parents cheated and made it together. That kid was lost until the parents reconciled and both my kids have declared that we need to make up as 1) they dont want to have step siblings (a bitter experience from another friend's life) 2) and figure out how to live in the same home.
My thoughts- I feel lost and may be using all these to reconcile with him. It is convenient. We are so matched in all other things and this is his first betrayal. I know it to be true based on his last year's behavior. I cant handle kids high school years, drives, household and a very stressful job without his help. We are a brilliant team otherwise and I do care for him. Him being at home but in guest room( he is ok living there forever but like I said we dont know what we dont know) brings normalcy to our week long nuked home. I dont want my kids to not go to the right college and careers because he sucked at marriage so I am ok pretending till they are out (4/5 years)
But I dont trust him at all. He kept swearing to kids each night that he never cheated on me and I was crazy but little by little things came out. He was so cautious about this affair so he knew what he did was wrong.
I am so lost and all I know is I need to give it time and understand my options. I wanted to punish him but no more. I am punishing the father of my kids. We are talking a lot and he is answering my questions and supporting me. He is applying for a different job but it will take a month or two. He has cancelled all his 1:1 with her adn agreed that I can sit away from camera but listen to the last review he has to do for her. Now again if he is talking to her on office zoom, I will be none the wiser.
so what am I doing wrong and what else can I do?
we are each other's security blanket and I am telling him that I will let him live with us but there is no guarantee of reconciliation. We can go on like this for five years and then decide. Am i naive and foolish.
Thank you for reading it.
Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 4:19 AM on Tuesday, September 21st, 2021
he actually called the cops on me and then told them to log the call and not come
He had no plans to end it.
He kept swearing to kids each night that he never cheated on me and I was crazy but little by little things came out.
These statements alone make me seethe with rage and sadness for you. As much as this will sound crazy, be careful about your reactions around him from now on, as I assume he may try the police again or even record it if where you live allows it. Have no doubts that he could go lower.
He tells me that he was very cautious hence forensics could not find anymore.
If he was that careful, maybe no amount of spyware will give you the safety you need. As you stated, you're well aware he can just find another way to cheat. If allowed, maybe the members who have access to the investigative tips section can suggest good options.
finally my husband told me everything (at least the part about sex and all)
What sucks about this is that there will always be something you won't know.
I am telling him that I will let him live with us but there is no guarantee of reconciliation.
Good. Take time for yourself and process things before you decide what you want. Watch his actions and make sure they're consistent, because right now, his words don't mean much. Usually, by the time a few weeks to a month have passed, the WS grows complacent and starts complaining about how long they're going to be scrutinized or when you'll get over it. Don't let him.
He's apparently been at it for about a year. A lot of time to learn a lot of tricks. A lot of time to forge a strong attachment to the AP as well. But you have a lot of strength. As far as I know, you're doing the best you can.
Definitely do the individual therapy first before any couples therapy. I also personally don't think true reconciliation can start until he completely cuts any and all contact with the OW.
Sorry you had to join this club.
[This message edited by Forks027 at 4:36 AM, Tuesday, September 21st]
Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 5:50 AM on Tuesday, September 21st, 2021
Please tell that nut job you are married to that the last thing he should want is getting your family on the police radar. How much class is it to sic the cops on your very hurt wife? This man has cheated, and LIED to you for nearly two years. Those years he spent on another woman. So he gets offended by your reaction and calls the cops, who hate domestic issues, because if someone touches another in anger they might just have to arrest them.
There are lots of posters on here with almost identical stories. Every single one of them will tell you to give this time. He has to show you, over time, that he is done cheating. That means no more interactions with the AP, including burner phoned, or whatever else cheaters come up with. Right now he is ducking your wrath but the real business is if is true to his word over months and years.
To thine own self be true. Shakespeare
Aletheia ( member #79172) posted at 5:58 AM on Tuesday, September 21st, 2021
lostindenial - you’re neither naive or foolish. you’re still in shock. it’s a lot to process and your husband was particularly cunning in his deception and cruel in his slow tortuous admission. Then your children, who clearly share your WHs DNA w/their thinking only about themselves, are providing pressure for an outcome.
I agree with everything Fork said. I’ll add you’ve been heard and I’m so very sorry you’re going through this. Glad you know this is not your fault. Excellent notifying OBS, getting all the accounts’ info, passwords, deciding on IC, the agreed keylogger and negotiating a post nup.
Have him wrote out a detailed outline of the affair, the plans he made, how he executed them, what lies he told you, his thought process during all his actions. Have him read it to you out loud when finished and tell him you’ll be scheduling a poly to ensure he’s continuing to lie or leaving anything out. Have you told extended family and friends yet? Considering GPS on his car and turned on in his phone? Put a VAR under his seat given his exceptionalism at deception. Maybe one in his office to see if he talks to her on office zoom. Sadly you become somewhat of a warden. And if you haven’t already, you both should get DNA panels done.
Although you feel destroyed right now, you’re handling this remarkably well. I think it’s too early to worry about reconciliation. You just found out and your emotional rollercoaster ride hasn’t begun to start yet. And neither of you have started IC yet. Take your time, don’t rush any long term decisions. Prioritize your health, abstain from alcohol and stay very hydrated, eat healthy, drink nutritional shakes and take vitamins if you’re suffering from a lack of appetite, exercise, take walks, and see a dr for sleep aids if necessary. You’re coping enormously, considering, but you need to nourish your body to keep your wits to assist you enduring through this nightmare. Please keep posting and updating. You’re gonna overcome this and you have a good community of ppl here to provide you with support.
Your best must be just as glorious as your betrayal was destructive.
Don’t allow people to "Life is short" you to amend bad relationships. Forgiveness /= reconciliation. Leave them people where they are. Life was short when they did what they did.
lostindenial (original poster new member #79420) posted at 9:18 AM on Tuesday, September 21st, 2021
[This message edited by lostindenial at 9:21 AM, Tuesday, September 21st]
Sofarsogood ( member #71991) posted at 7:33 PM on Wednesday, September 22nd, 2021
Ok, Wouldn't there be other ways to be intimate that don't involve actual penetration? (Sorry if I'm being too nosy). Also, it sounds like your WH is very tech savvy, but could you hire an astute computer whiz to see what they can uncover? It sounds like you have a lot of your bases covered already, but I sure can understand not trusting him. He has to prove he can be a safe partner for you again.
trustedg ( member #44465) posted at 10:10 PM on Wednesday, September 22nd, 2021
So sorry you are here.
Get "how to help your spouse heal from your affair". Read it and give it your WH to read. The road to reconciliation is long and sometimes it is not possible.
Get IC for yourself. See an attorney, protect yourself and your children.
Me BWHim WH DDay 12/2012Married a long time, in R
Ladybugmaam ( member #69881) posted at 3:07 AM on Thursday, September 23rd, 2021
I'm SO sorry you're here. It is a club no one wants to join....but all too common. I applaud you for what you've done so far.....I was a mess. I think you're handling this very well, considering. I would encourage you to do everything you can to take care of yourself first. You can make yourself safe. You can make your children safe. Getting good counseling is a wonderful start. No matter what happens, you WILL be ok. You will get through this. I'm SO sorry. Feel free to pm me.
EA DD 11/2018
PA DD 2/25/19
One teen son
Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 3:24 AM on Thursday, September 23rd, 2021
I'm sorry but like others have said, him calling the cops on you after his huge betrayal was over the top, you deserve so much better than an unremorseful proven cheater and liar. I always suggest D when it comes to serial cheaters and/or LTAs, so contact a D attorney and RUN and don't forget to get tested for STDs.
[This message edited by Buster123 at 3:29 AM, Thursday, September 23rd]
cannotforgive ( member #43367) posted at 7:19 AM on Thursday, September 23rd, 2021
Lostindenial, first a big hug to you and well done for navigating this mess. I was in a same situation 7 years ago and I certainly did not do as well as you.
You did everything right.
Get your counselling going as this will help you process the trauma. Do not make any rush decisions. Watch his actions, do not pay attention to his words.
It gets better, but be prepared for any set backs. They are common, especially when you think you are both doing well, then, wham, you discover something that sets that process back. Stay on course, lose the small battles and keep your eyes on the prize.
The prize in my case was to cause least damage to my kids. And seeing them now as well rounded, respectful and loving young adults, I know staying was the right option for me.
Divorcing would have meant moving countries, moving to state schools and certainly a less comfortable life full of sacrifice. I did not want our children to pay for the sins of their father.
They know what I went through and are super loving and respectful to me. They also respect their father, seeing how far he has come and how much he does for them and supports them.
However, I would not have stayed if my WH had not been remorseful and worked on himself in therapy for years.
Wish you all the best. Stay strong. x
Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 4:01 PM on Thursday, September 23rd, 2021
Ok, Wouldn't there be other ways to be intimate that don't involve actual penetration? (Sorry if I'm being too nosy).
Just love this! Isn’t it funny how cheaters justify cheating by stating they aren’t getting enough sex but… how much sex does he think he’ll get now? It wasn’t much of it before but I can tell you something, sticking it in another woman will definitely not get him more of it. Not only that but it has become a moot point, at least for the time being until he addresses why, instead of finding ways to resolve it (including divorce), he chose to hurt his wife and kids for… an erection.
OP I’m sorry you’re here. You’ve done so much better than many of us did by informing the OBS, demanding a job change, transparency etc. Keep going, you’ll get there.
On the sex matter let me tell you this: it is not the reason your WH cheated. Is he using it to justify it? Of course he is. Was it true and did it contribute to him building resentment? Yes. But think of this: any person with an ounce of integrity and morals would have sat you down and ask you to work on it together, be it by suggesting alternative ways to be intimate, be it an open marriage or whatever you two could have agreed on. And any person with an ounce of integrity and morals would have divorced if after all that it wouldn’t have been sorted.
So next time he tells you he cheated due to lack of sex do call him on his bs. He cheated because he’s lacking morals, because he’s lacking desire to work hard for the things he wants to get, because he’s conflict avoidant and rather than discuss it with you he sacrificed you for his own benefit.
[This message edited by Luna10 at 4:03 PM, Thursday, September 23rd]
BW - 38 at the time of the A
WH - 45 at the time of the A
Dday - 27/9/2017
Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 5:28 PM on Thursday, September 23rd, 2021
I'm glad you are blaming yourself and being proactive with the prenupt. Very few people are ready to end the marriage immediately after finding out. His affair went on for 18 months. It's going to take him a very long time to rebuild trust. You shouldn't trust him. You shouldn't believe anything he says right now. You shouldn't be promising him R. or threatening D.
Things that you didn't list that might help to build trust. You need access to all finances and phone records. He should write out a timeline of the affair so you can ask more questions. You might not want to know the details of their sex life but you do want to find out how they carried on for so long. You say he's sneaky, you need to know how to spot the signs they are back in touch. I'd also meet with the OBS to compare timelines. It would be good if you had an allied, two sets of eyes watching them. Put a tracker on his phone so you know he is where he says he is.
Nobody want's to be a cop in their own marriage but one way he can earn your trust is if you do find out any new information.
Lastly, you can't stay in a marriage because the kids want you to. They have a friend that was destroyed when their parents got divorced. I get it....but they probably have a friend that is screwed up because their parents had a loveless marriage and one that is in counseling because their parents didn't divorce and resented each other...and one that saw one parent treated like a doormat....and.... You get the idea.
It's ok if you want to stay married and work on this...or just see how it goes. Don't stay married just for the kids.
sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 5:50 PM on Thursday, September 23rd, 2021
I think you understand the logic of recovery, and I think you're doing good things for yourself (not taking in blame for your H's cheating, IC).
The one thing I'd add is that logic won't get you through this. You'll have to deal with immense amounts of grief, fear, anger, and shame, because they get dumped on you on d-day. IC is a good way to get help processing feelings.
Just ... don't be surprised if you find the feelings overwhelming. You have feelings; they don't have you. Surviving and thriving is hard work.
Be kind to yourself. Have faith in yourself to heal.
fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.
lostindenial (original poster new member #79420) posted at 3:09 AM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021
Thought I will provide an update:
1) WH is up to his manipulative tricks. I took pity at him and referred a post (the work) to him over the weekend to read as he could not figure out his "whys".
2) next thing I know, he has created his own profile on the board and posting his own version of the story. Real version is of course something else. Despite him trying to subtly blame his family, me (boy, he can tell some tall tales painting me as the dominating villain who is not the best mother), thankfully some very smart posters have gotten a pretty good sense of his sly modus operandi and are trying to encourage him to focus on himself and dig deeper- thank you to the internet strangers
3) I am coming more and more to the realization that he is so far gone in his manipulations and stories that I am better off leaving him. Post nup is signed but at this point, I will settle for everything in middle just to get rid of him and have communicated as such.
4) my therapist is good and is keeping me very much on "I" sentences and not on him. My impression is that he is wasting his IC on making up stories but his time and his life. My poor kids are being crushed in the middle so I told him this evening to find other arrangements for living temporarily for six months.
5) he refuses to leave as it will cost him money and he wants to be close to kids. I told him that he can take them to school in the AM and come in the evening. I also offered to help him out with the rent for six months (not that he cannot afford it) but he is trying to convince me otherwise.
I am done, just done. He is such a liar and manipulator. In all his talks, it is all about him. I actually was so frustrated with him this evening that I had to say- so looking righteous in front of the Internet strangers was more precious to him than doing real work and coming clean. He is so far gone in his pretense and lying that he can’t even sense or understand this. He just distracts and blame shifts so subtly that it is fascinating that I married such a shallow man. I cannot wait to get out of this. But based on his behavior I can sense that it is going to be arduous
nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 6:51 AM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021
Lost, you are absolutely doing the right thing by insisting on a separation. Any WS who feels the need to invade your safe space in order to tell lies and imply nasty things about you is NOT remorseful, not safe, and not a good candidate for R. Please be careful but diligent in getting space from him. He has proven that he has no qualms using others to regain control over you like calling the police on you. Reach out to family and friends and tell them what is going on so that they can help you.
The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 10:11 AM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021
Oftentimes it’s not the affair that kills the marriage but the behavior after the unfair is uncovered that causes the Divorce.
Your Husband does not appear remorseful. Without remorse a reconciliation will not work.
Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.
redwing6 ( member #72593) posted at 10:50 AM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021
Quick point. You said your WH and AP work together? If this true thr e affair is still ongoing. Onr or the other must find a new job ASAP.
WW #2 D'd after 6month EA who scammed her out of our life savings
WW #1 51 since remaired twice continues to cheat even today
WW #2 Refuses to admit she wrecked our marriage
DD adult 32
DSD adult 33
DSS adult 30
lostindenial (original poster new member #79420) posted at 4:34 PM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021
Thank you. Yes, AP is a direct of WH. Talk about implications at stake here.
Three dependencies I have given him for any discussion for our future together
1) six months of IC
2) AP and he cannot be in the same company ( it started when they worked for different divisions and he hired her as a direct after her division merged with his)
3) a well thought out, introspective answer on why he did it and what will he put as safeguards to avoid this in future.
Then only, we can start MC if I have even an iota of interest in a future with him. This way, at least I am ensuring a heathy father to my children if not a family together.
[This message edited by lostindenial at 4:39 PM, Wednesday, October 20th]
Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 4:53 PM on Wednesday, October 20th, 2021
Sorry that your WH is still proving to be an asshat. You’ve given him all the options and resources to better himself, but as the saying goes, it’s up to him to genuinely utilize them.
I admire your resolution and hope that you’re focusing on protecting yourself and the kids for now.
[This message edited by Forks027 at 5:02 PM, Wednesday, October 20th]
crushingpainful ( new member #79466) posted at 5:57 AM on Thursday, October 21st, 2021
If you can get his phone there are some apps you can install to retrieve even deleted texts......yes they do work to a point if the data have not been overwritten. PhonePaw, Dr. Phone, and Android Transfer all worked for me........but I left cookie crumbs because I am a Luddite, and Not a cheater and a Liar....etc... etc.... In other words not devious enough to hide all of my tracks either. (She got pissed....) oh well
I am sure there are very tech savvy people who for a fee can help you also.
I will caution you though, I have become a bit obsessed with my need to know......know what??.......everything, anything, who, what , when, where, why.......why do I want to know all of the gory details?? Can anyone help me answer that??
I am sorry for what you are going through..........I am thoroughly on the roller coaster and don't know what good I am to anyone.
I am a man, who like you discovered that my mental and emotional construct of the world has been overturned.
Welcome to New Babylon.