SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just want to say, I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. From lurking, these guys are no joke & don’t hold back, but it’s genuine concern & desire to help. Do what they say. Doubting them will only prolong your bad situation. Only piece of advice I can give is: don’t waver, act. Being afraid to “further divide” will do just that. Weakness, or the appearance of, repels.

Wow. Tell me how you really feel! Seriously though I appreciate the comments and advice. I know what I need to do and just need to do it. Knowing for sure one way or the other is big for me so I need to start getting some answers and I’m only going to get them by grabbing them myself. I tried to save my first marriage of 15 years for a couple years and I can’t do that again.

We are all on team YOU. We all know your pain and have done the wrong things and learned, done the right things and learned. You are in a good place here. Some of the messages are going to be harsh but they are all rooting for team YOU.

I am so sorry for the pain you feel. You are not alone.

[This message edited by stubbornft at 8:52 PM, July 26th (Monday)]

It is so hard to come to a site like this, when you are still reeling, and to get bombarded with information......MUCH OF IT NOT BEING WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. Believe me, I get it, and I am YEARS down the road. But I can still remember those early days.

Bottom line--to get out of infidelity, whether it be by reconciling or divorcing, the one factor that you have to overcome is the fear. You used the word 'paralyzing', and brother, I couldn't agree with you more. It is some of the scariest crap that we will ever go through....at least in the early days. Once you have a path chosen, it gets easier. It looks like you would prefer to reconcile, so what you need, at the bare minimum to have a chance, is two committed partners. If you both say that you are committed, it will be your starting point. Without this, if your wife needs to 'think about it' or anything other than she is 100% committed to try, and you can stop wasting your time. Reconciliation is hard enough with both parties putting in max effort; less than that will give you EXACTLY that--less.

This is going to be key for you:

I want so badly to work on forgiveness and rebuilding of trust but I don’t know how to get there.

You can't forgive when you don't know what you are forgiving. And you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of finding out as long as fear plays in your decisions. It is often said around here that losing your wife is not the biggest fear. It is sharing your wife that is your worst case scenario. Would you rather find out now that her transgressions are unforgivable, or have that reality surface months or years down the road? You may not like the answers that you receive from your wife, but not knowing, and letting your mind run wild is far worse. So, do NOT be afraid to get to the truth.

Would she let you do a data recovery on her phone?

Would she let you go through her emails?

Would she be willing to write you out a timeline, in detail, of how this all started?

Would she be willing to take a polygraph to help confirm her statements?

These are all things that should be freely given by her to you in order to help rebuild trust. Without a doubt, nothing will help rebuild trust better than a partner who is doing all she can to make herself a safe partner in her relationship. She should be leading the way. She should be looking into counseling FOR HERSELF(absolutely do NOT do marriage counseling at this point---the marriage is not the issue). She should be offering ways to show you her whereabouts all for the sake of rebuilding trust.

But above all, you need the TRUTH. Until you feel that you have this, in its entirety, you are going to keep spinning your wheels.

I tried to save my first marriage of 15 years for a couple years and I can’t do that again.

It takes two for a marriage. If you don’t have that you are just wasting your time/life. You cannot make her do a thing.

Ask yourself this. What are you getting back ?

[This message edited by Marz at 9:57 PM, July 26th (Monday)]

Walk away from this - it is not worth it.

Hi fellow Washington neighbor.

That gut will never let you down. Pretty sure you don’t know the majority of what has happened.

Definitely put a tracker on her car. Go along with her and make her think your all good with everything, then keep snooping, tracking, anything you can to find out what she’s doing, be all over her phone and computer. It will all come to light. Keep your cool on things if you find anything out that is. Then ask yourself how much you want to put up with.

Inform her that based on her behavior, you no longer can accept her word. Ask her what her plan is to rebuild your trust and to prove to you that it's over.

She created this mess - now it's her job to do whatever it takes for you to feel safe from infidelity. How about she change jobs?

Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. And every spouse has an obligation to make their spouse feel safe from infidelity. Your wife failed big time.

Consequently, based on her inappropriate behavior, it is no longer appropriate for her expect you to assume she's not cheating (trust her or except her promises).

As a result of her inappropriate behavior, she now has the burden of proving to you that she's not cheating.

She should be actively proving it. IMO she doesn't think you'll divorce her so she doesn't take you seriously.

In the interim, absent her proving to you that she's safe (other than making promises), I suggest that she sees you taking steps to exit the relationship.

For example, separating accounts/property, talking to an attorney, and start to distance yourself from her. Love bombing feels great in the moment but also creates a misleading sense of a strong bond/connection.

If she even suspects that you're willing to tolerate feeling unsafe vs divorce, then she will not take you seriously.

And if your zero tolerance for her behavior pushes her away - then it's already to late (you lost her).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:48 AM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

Great advice so far.

Assume you know only the tip of the iceberg. Assume things are still going on, just laying dormant and driven further underground.

I would step up surveillance but keep it very discrete. Play like you're trusting her that it's over. Play like you're no longer suspecting then,

VAR the car and any other locations she might initiate a private phone call. Track her with GPS or hire a PI. Examine the phone bill. Discretely check her phone for hidden chat messaging apps. Check for non-contiguous text threads (where texts have been deleted). Check phone bill text data against phone's text history. Check her emails work/personal. Set her Google to track and store all travel/location history. Check her Google or Safari search history. Check her contacts for aliases. It's common to give AP's opposite gender names or generic names to mislead.

Before you reconcile, you need to get your arms around the full scope of her betrayal and her ability to betray. You need to know how far she's capable and willing to go with infidelity. You need to find out just how screwed up she really is. If you intervene prematurely you may just drive it into a dormant state that can come back down the road, that can re-emerge at a later date, when your guard is down, and bite you in the ass. I would use this opportunity to find out who she really is.

Others will tell you that you have enough evidence. You already know she's a cheater and if left undiscovered would have taken it all the way. Others will say she has already crossed the line and is in an EA and a PA is inconsequential. All is true but, sometimes we need more information to act decisively and definitively.

When you do decide to act, you must act decisively and definitively. No half measures. You must execute hard boundaries. Full transparency. Complete NC-COMPLETE! Intensive IC, no MC, STD check, timelines, full disclosure, no minimizing, no rug sweeping, no blame shifting, etc, etc, etc

OR,

Divorce.

These are the two absolutes: All-in, fully committed, by-the-book Reconciliation or...Divorce. Don't settle for anything in-between.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:05 AM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

I fear what I’ll find it out

Yep, the fear that holds us back...and ultimately makes things worse. Dealing with it directly is the only way to get answers so you can make an educated decision on how to proceed.

Everyone who posts here posts from experience so use what you can and know that you're not alone.

I want to reach out to this guy and make my presence known.

It's not about him. This is about your wife. You probably need to know for sure before you make any big moves, so I would suggest stopping confronting her. You are just driving her into secrecy and making it harder to figure this all out.

This isn't about your marriage or needing counseling at this point. Any disagreements or tension exists separate from a cheater cheating if that is the case. Joint marriage counseling is for when two people are being honest, but maybe not getting along. If you have a deceitful wife, it will only hurt you to work on a marriage that doesn't exist as you believed it to be.

So sorry you are dealing with this. Take care of yourself.

Thank you all. I hear you. Telling myself to expect the worst and plan on attempting detachment over the coming days while I dig deeper to find truth. It’s a good thing I have a good job that allows me flexibility to get through the process.

Our intimacy on the weekends has been exceptional. I don’t even know if I can trust my gut any longer.

So, what do you think is making you not be able to trust your gut?

Hint: continued intimacy with the person who betrayed you.

The immediate reaction by quite a few, is to try and 'get' the WS back. Sorry, you will get no prizes there. The only prize you win, will be a booby prize. The WS who is remorseful would be doing all the chasing, and making sure that the BS feels safe with them, viewing the BS as the Prize.

I want so badly to work on forgiveness and rebuilding of trust but I don’t know how to get there.

This work is NOT for YOU to do, but for your WS to do.

At the moment, what consequences does your WS have, apart from a depressed BS (which in a WS mind can be a 'meh')? What has affected her life/lifestyle? Probably nothing of worth. She still gets to see her boyfriend at work, she just gives you a hug and tell you sweet nothings, and she just goes about her day as usual, because she will suffer no consequences.

Like sweet nothings, boundaries/consequences that are not backed up with actions, are nothing but words.

[This message edited by RocketRaccoon at 11:00 PM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

So, what do you think is making you not be able to trust your gut?

I suppose because it hasn’t been 100% on target. But I’m fairly confident right now that it isn’t over and she hasn’t been honest. Like a few have told me here, I need to do the work to validate my gut and I’m in the process of doing that and I don’t think it will take very long to find that out. Not very long feels like an eternity because it may take a week or two of pretending I’m good. I think she can still tell I’m not perfect but why should I be. Although the weekends since DD1 have been good, it was more likely that it was me initiating in an attempt to connect and make myself feel better. Always goes away the next day. No more.

The immediate reaction by quite a few, is to try and 'get' the WS back. Sorry, you will get no prizes there.

Yeah over the last couple days, especially after getting on here I’ve just been telling myself that we’re heading towards D. I’m not going to compete with anyone. I’ve been a good partner, supportive, loving and a good father to her children. It’s her choice to let that go and there’s nothing I can do about that. I’m not fighting. She has done nothing over the past several weeks to make me feel safe or offer transparency. Given I haven’t demanded it. Honestly I don’t see the point. I told her to stop messaging him when caught. Strike 1. She was at his place. Strike 2. When I find with certainty, which I think I will, that it’s continuing. Strike 3. I’ll pull out a list of assets and debts and ask her how she wants to move toward divorce. Hard part is the house and mortgage is in my name. I can’t live in the same house with her once I pull the trigger. I got two kids here, she has 3. That’s complicated. Why should I leave? But at the same time, I’m not going to be vindictive or be angry about stuff. Another thing I just don’t have the energy to fight.

This work is NOT for YOU to do, but for your WS to do.

Totally agree. Maybe once she gets caught in another lie she’ll prefer consequences over D. I’m not counting on that and more so, I don’t know that I want to live that way.

Weakness, or the appearance of, repels.

Amen. I will die on this hill. You CANNOT truly R if you don't muster up the strength to set and enforce boundaries for what you will and won't accept in your relationship.

Not very long feels like an eternity because it may take a week or two of pretending I’m good. I think she can still tell I’m not perfect but why should I be.

Make up a reason for your angst. Work is stressful; big project due soon. Friend who she doesn't know is sick and waiting on test results. Something like that.

I’ll pull out a list of assets and debts and ask her how she wants to move toward divorce.

I never went the divorce route, so someone else might have better advice, but I think you should fully arm yourself by consulting an attorney before you talk D with her. Bring the big guns.

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 2:12 PM, July 28th (Wednesday)]

I never went the divorce route, so someone else might have better advice, but I think you should fully arm yourself by consulting an attorney before you talk D with her. Bring the big guns.

Anyone else have thoughts on this. If she’s refusing to own up and continues to lie and deny what other options are there?

No, you won't have other options, but it would be better if you talk to the lawyer before giving a divorce speech. Or if you want to show your intentions right away, you can say that you will see a divorce lawyer without going into the technical details.

I do not advise sitting down with her and trying to work it out on paper. That is not serious. Work with your lawyer.

D is the only true path out of infidelity when you have an unremorseful WS, which you currently do. All BS, regardless of whether R is a consideration or not, should speak with an attorney or few, to understand what that path looks like. For R to succeed the BS has to be willingly to walk away if the WS is incapable of R. Knowledge is power. Get the proper legal advice. Work out what the division of assets look like. Figure out living arrangements. Be willingly to pull the trigger if your WS continues to prioritize her AP over her family.

[This message edited by grubs at 9:19 PM, Wednesday, July 28th]

BNB, I'm of the mind frame that cheaters should be thrown immediately overboard and then it's up to them to swim back and and ask to be let back aboard to be given another chance. And do so in action, not just words. I'm in the camp that's willing you to promptly go to a divorce lawyer & drop the D papers on her swiftly, without notice. IMO, doing anything else, is wasting time and our time in this lifetime is short.

One of three responses: she says "ok" then you'll know, and not waste part of your life wishing against the inevitable outcome. 2, she gets angry and or panics and wants to start bargaining, which you should shut down. Or 3, she'll be in shock, particularly that she wasn't as cunning in duping you, as she thought she was. Or she's thinking you're too soft to do anything about it. Sometimes I think WS have an expectation "s/he loves me and S/he will eventually get over it and S/he would never leave me." Dropping the D papers on her in this manner signals that not only will this not be rug, she better wake the fuck up to what's happening, you're not a female dog, and you will walk away if she doesn't stop.

JMO ...

chances are she took this relationship underground, or is putting it on hold for now.

Best thing to do, is to do some surveillance. There are plenty of tools on this site and recommendations, but I think the most effective one is a VAR in the car. Go to best buy/amazon and buy one, Hide it in her car underneath her seat and remember to get the one that stays on, but only activates when there is sound. Hide it under her seat and see if you can listen in on some conversations. DO NOT REVEAL what you find out to her.