BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 6:50 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
Nope, Divorce papers should be served on her way out to her on her trip if its without you. Not when she returns.
grubs ( member #77165) posted at 6:56 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
Nope, Divorce papers should be served on her way out to her on her trip if its without you. Not when she returns.
I think Legatus is coming to the realization that the papers need to be served regardless of whether she goes or not. He was always plan B and he knows it. I think the only reason for her recent change is she is just now realizing that she was only plan F to her AP. It's unfortunate for her that Legatus beat her to that realization.
Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 7:12 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
Yes. Actually agree to serve her just before leaving.
I hear you talking yourself into staying snd giving her another chance - like her tenth one. IMO, big mistake. Serve her first. Until then, she knows she has the upper hand. She knows she’s manipulating you, she knows her current manipulative behavior is working on you. This is what she’s done to you for four years. She’s an adept liar snd manipulator, you know this, yet you’re falling for it. I hate to be harsh but it’s the truth.
Can you see what we’re all seeing? You’re very much able to impassionately recount the details of her A. What I don’t think you’re seeing is that you’re being manipulated. You’re taking the kibbles she’s throwing your way, which represents a blip in the four year ordeal she’s put you through.
You’ve been plan B for four years and now that she saw that her comfy lifestyle was going to change she’s playing a different tune. Do you really believe she loves you for you snd is loyal to you and your M?
Once you serve her you can really delve into R or D. If you did this to her for four years do you think she would serve you? If only for the optics to her dear friends I would say absolutely.
Legatus (original poster member #79152) posted at 7:19 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
BlueRaspberry - the email to the AP is still in play. I got ballsy and asked him "I know it’s not likely, but do you ever think we’ll see each other again?". That was met with 24 hours of silence followed up by a security question. Something my wife would only know the answer to. We responded with the right answer. He wasn’t totally convinced. He said they should talk in 8 days when he came home and from being abroad. He mentioned he didn’t have his laptop with him which I took as an indication he wants to use the shared drive word doc to communicate. There hasn’t been anything reported to me yet.
Nothing else of use was gleaned from the messages. Me asking him if I will see him again was risky, because if they had plans to get together it would be a strange question. I think that’s what prompted the security question.
[This message edited by Legatus at 7:34 PM, Thursday, September 16th]
Marz ( member #60895) posted at 9:11 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
BlueRaspberry - the email to the AP is still in play. I got ballsy and asked him "I know it’s not likely, but do you ever think we’ll see each other again?". That was met with 24 hours of silence followed up by a security question. Something my wife would only know the answer to.
Like before you know the truth.
Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 9:50 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
Your wife is an accomplished liar. Her words mean nothing.
She's read up on the subject and now knows exactly what you need to hear in order to keep you on her string.
Regardless of how important she feels her 45th birthday celebration is ...or how long she's been looking forward to it.
Her disappointment by not going is nothing compared to the pain and disappointment she's dumped on you.
And any disapproval from her friends upon exposure is nothing compared to your pain.
If she was a good candidate for R, she would never fly off to another country to celebrate without you.
Among other things, any celebration is (should be) meaningless without the most important person in her life (you). Unless it's not you.
It's time for you to blow up her selfish fantasy.
IMO you should serve the divorce papers prior to her leaving...and expose to her friends.
She chose him over you years ago (and is still in touch/connected to him) ... but the OM didn't step up.
Inform her friends she committed adultery, lied for years, and still has feelings for her X-boss (who basically chose his wife over her).
Inform all her friends so they know she's a selfish snot that put herself before her marriage.
Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 10:07 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
IMO I would stop the email games. I think it’s fairly obvious that the POS is on to you and there’s a chance, based on history, that your WW is still somehow communicating with him, even if it’s indirectly. I also think the emailing smacks of desperation snd the pick me dance on your part snd it’s simply not a good look. Truly, how much more info do you need?
Your WW started to understand how much she hurt you after she had sex with the POS? Really started to come around after that? However, kept up communication with him until I believe November of 2020? So really, since sex in 2017 it took three years for her to actually understand how much having sex with the POS was hurting you?
Legatus - we’re seeing now what helped get you here in the first place four years ago. Again, for the umteenth time you’re folding under your WW’s manipulation. You said it yourself that after each time you put your foot down your WW came around a bit,
then wash, rinse, repeat.
Mexico- "Don’t worry we’ll be all fixed up by January," or something to that effect. Selfish, WW behavior. It hasn’t t changed from 2017 and it’s not changing now. What you’re seeing is smoke and mirrors.
BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 10:54 PM on Thursday, September 16th, 2021
Me asking him if I will see him again was risky, because if they had plans to get together it would be a strange question.
Not sure if you still plan to polygraph her but perhaps this could be baked into the list of questions. Do you plan to polygraph and confirm her timeline before you reach out to the OBS?
Legatus (original poster member #79152) posted at 10:38 PM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021
BlueRaspberry - Yes, the polygraph would come first.
countrydirt ( member #55758) posted at 1:40 AM on Monday, September 20th, 2021
I've read the entire thread. I'm so sorry.
I lived in limbo hell for almost 5 years. I filed for divorce 361 days ago and it was final on January 11. She moved out about 3 weeks after I filed and after I had consigned her to the spare room in May of 2020. She tried to hold onto the master bedroom but I told her that she was the one that cheated and she had no choice. I had spent several nights in that spare room when I realized that I couldn't stand to be in the same room as her.
For your sanity, ffs, file!
3 adult sons
Married 32 years. DDay1 - June 2016, DDay 2 - April 2017, Final DDay - May 2020. Divorced - January 2021
Legatus (original poster member #79152) posted at 3:27 PM on Monday, October 11th, 2021
Hi, just wanted to post an update. I slowed my posts way down since I felt like I was over posting and venting too much. Anyways, here is where I am now. I am actively working with an attorney. She came recommended from a friend who works at Friend of the Court and I feel pretty good about her advice and competence. She informed me in the county I live in, post nuptials are generally upheld in court when they are done correctly. She actually talked me out of filing for separation stating the separation would cost more and the post nuptial would accomplish the same thing at a much lower cost. My wife and I discussed the terms of the post nuptial and agreed to the terms. I was really fair with the terms, maybe a little too fair. However, it's the lopsided unfair agreements that get thrown out. I watched my parents waste tons of money fighting over things during their divorce. I want an agreement which will be as strong as possible if it's ever contested.
No polygraph yet, but that's actually because of me and not my wife. She's actually been pestering me to schedule one, but I'm not in a big rush. Part of that is me feeling as though I'm getting the truth out of her anyways. My gut isn't telling me she's lying to me like it was before. It is telling me she is still leaving out details. It's hard to tell if that's my gut or just my fear since she has lied so much in the past.
She has been working super hard to do everything she can to try to fix things. For once I have no criticisms when it comes to the level of effort she's trying to put into reconciliation. I do feel she is remorseful and ashamed for what she's done. I think she gets my pain on a level she previously did not. We did inform the OBS. My wife called her, but we continued to get her voicemail. So, eventually we emailed her a copy of the timeline which we had redacted to protect our privacy. Then my wife called and left a voicemail apologizing for sleeping with her husband and stating that the emailed timeline was the truth. She asked the OBS to call her or email if she had any questions. At the time we still had the fake messages going to the husband via the work shared drive file. His tone changed really fast after the timeline was sent. He claimed his wife alerted him to it being sent, but did not read it or share it with him. He pushed really hard for an explanation of what it contained. Then all the sudden he sent a message with an angry tone saying stuff like "I was only trying to be your friend and look out for you. I guess I've been defeated". Then he said he didn't want to communicate anymore. His wife sent a text message asking us to leave them alone. I don't know if she read it and was gas lighted by her husband or what happened on their side. I guess we'll never know. The value to us in all of that was him knowing that she had told me their secrets and betrayed him. I don't think he saw that coming.
My wife was a little taken by surprise by his angry response. She came to realize on her own that he never really had any skin in the game from a risk perspective. She realized that the risk was super one sided. Her narrative is "I thought he cared about me and wanted the best for me, but all he ever did was encourage me to make decisions that risked everything I had in the marriage and with our family." She realized it was mostly just upside for him and mostly downside for her. This was followed by her comparing and contrasting me and him. Something she had done before, but only while he was up on a Pedi stool. She saw that he never made any personal sacrifices for her and only took. Part of this was her seeing that over the affair and in the years prior I had made personal sacrifices in the interest of her happiness and well being. She's seeing what I saw the whole time, he wanted her to stroke his ego, have sex with him, make him feel important, but he didn't really care what happened to her.
I've been working with my IC and have switched the focus of the sessions from talking about the affair to talking about me and things I can do independently to improve my life. Work on my issues for my own well being not for the sake of the marriage. In recent weeks I've become very disinterested in working on the marriage. I guess in many ways I've become selfish and self serving. I feel disgust towards my wife. Not just because of the PA, but also because of the years following it with all the lies and disregard for my well being. She was willing to put me through the horrible hurt just to get what she wanted. I feel mostly emptiness towards her. I don't get that special feeling if we do hug. When she tells me how much she loves me and wants to talk about our future I'm bored by it. I have to stop myself from yawning while she's talking. In the past I would have been intently listening and getting excited about that kind of talk.
I know a lot of you are still super on the side of filing for divorce and honestly, from an emotional perspective I'm pretty much there. Divorced emotionally, but not legally. I know if frustrates some of you, but I don't see the need for divorce at this point. It wouldn't flush out any more truth or any more effort on her part. I'm not chomping at the bit to replace my wife, I'm pretty happy with my life overall. I big part of that has been working on myself with my IC and not focusing on the marriage. I've been honest with my wife about where I am emotionally. She knows I am detached to large degree. I told her I might reattach in the future or I might not. Time will tell. I've excepted that she may lose patience and resolve and decide to move on. If she does, I'm ok with that. The way I see it now I wouldn't be losing much. I'm not going to fake affection just to try to keep her on the hook so I can keep my options open. I think that would be as inconsiderate as having an affair myself.
One last thing I suspect some of you might want me to address. The trip in January. It hasn't been discussed recently. I told her a month or so ago that I was not going and that was not going to change. Neither of us have brought it up since. We will just have to wait and see what happens with that.
BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 4:27 PM on Monday, October 11th, 2021
I know a lot of you are still super on the side of filing for divorce and honestly, from an emotional perspective I'm pretty much there. Divorced emotionally, but not legally. I know if frustrates some of you, but I don't see the need for divorce at this point. It wouldn't flush out any more truth or any more effort on her part. I'm not chomping at the bit to replace my wife, I'm pretty happy with my life overall.
You don't owe anyone on this site anything. If you have a post-nuptial in place that achieves everything you want/need and it is legally defendable, you should take all the time you need to decide on divorce. You can pull the trigger anytime.
By the way, I think it is an excellent approach to work on yourself to improve your life and overall happiness. If your wife and the marriage can compliment you and she puts in the work to become a safe partner, that's fine. If not, you'll be ready to move forward on your own and under your own timeframe.
[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 4:28 PM, Monday, October 11th]
Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 6:07 PM on Monday, October 11th, 2021
I’m truly happy for you that you have an good handle on what you want to do at this point.
Just be aware that your detachment now, and potentially increased detachment along the way, will most likely cause your WW to go to desperate measures - bargaining, pleading, begging, telling you to think about the kids, serious love bombing, etc.
Just be ready for all of this and discuss with your IC, so you’re fully prepared for how you want to handle these potential occurrences.
Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 6:10 PM on Monday, October 11th, 2021
As was just said, if you feel you truly love your WW and decide to give R a shot, you owe nobody here anything. You need to be true to yourself and your feelings.
CuriousObserver ( member #78743) posted at 7:18 PM on Monday, October 11th, 2021
Glad to see that you are getting out of infidelity. As you continue to work on yourself, you can add to the list to stop caring about what anyone on this board thinks about your choices. This is your life. All the best to you.
Listen to their words but believe their actions.
The power of a lie is that it is believed to be truth.
guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 10:02 PM on Monday, October 11th, 2021
I read the first parts of the post with some worry as you're looking at things through rose-tinted glasses, but the last parts have allayed that concern.
First of all, I still think that your WW's efforts are for her own sake, not yours.
She may have deep regret, but I'm not sure if it can be called as remorse. It doesn't seem sincere to me that she just realized how POS is the AP and how wonderful you are, how much she loves you etc. She continued her A by taking all the risks. Now that she has nothing left to do, there are very valid reasons not to believe in the sincerity of what she is doing now. You can only believe in people's sincerity when they do things they don't have to.
I think that the game you were playing to the AP and using her (or having her voluntarily assisting it) wrong and unnecessary. You should be the one who contact and inform OBS.
I don't know how sure you are about the reality of the game you're playing, but judging from what you've told, it seems like there's a possibility that you've been tricked too. Especially the "leave us alone" request at the end seems suspicious. OBS may still have no idea what's going on. It is enough that your WW has informed the AP at the beginning.
If all these are true, it points to a other problem; your WW ratted out her accomplice.
When you look at it subjectively, you may see it as a good thing, that made for you. But objectively, that's not good behavior.
She may do the same to you one day. Actually, she already did it by cheating on you, but she can do it again (cheating or something else), so nothing has changed in her personality. That was one of the reasons why you should do it.
The last parts shows your indifference, best level of getting out of infidelity. Good for you.
[This message edited by guvensiz at 4:07 PM, October 11th (Monday)]
BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 10:28 PM on Monday, October 11th, 2021
One more point. Getting your post-nuptial completed and signed by both parties should be your top priority. If your wife comes to the conclusion that the marriage is over, she could start to get difficult. Now is the time to nail down the agreement, while she is trying to be the perfect wife.
As an aside, are you still sleeping in separate bedrooms? If so, I would at least keep it that way until the post-nuptial is signed and you're (legally and mentally) in a better place.
Hopefully, she's stopped leaving you those ridiculous cards...
[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 10:29 PM, Monday, October 11th]
beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 12:04 AM on Tuesday, October 12th, 2021
Now your WW knows how crooked AP was. He was just in it to get in her pants all along.
nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 4:43 PM on Tuesday, October 12th, 2021
Legatus, take all the time that you need. Trust but verify. Confirm as much of what happened as you can. Even if everything checks out, even if she appears remorseful now, you don't owe her yet another chance if it means that you have to put your personal healing and happiness on the back burner. Only go into R because you want to R. We have a saying around here: "It's not the A that kills the marriage. It's what the WS does after the A that does." She has a lot more to atone for than just the original A. She's been lying, deceiving, and gaslighting for years. It's up to you to determine if a healthy, happy marriage can be crafted out of the destruction she caused.
cuckhold ( member #25015) posted at 10:23 PM on Tuesday, October 12th, 2021
I went thru the same thing with my WW. Asked whether she wore the ring during her affairs. Yes! mentioned the same sexual contact issue. I told her I never wanted to see it again. I told her to sell it or throw it away. I think its stashed in the bottom of her jewelry box but she's never worn it again.
I think we have all experienced the thoughts of our WS's reaction in bed, with their lover. Should you reconcile those mind movies and thoughts will abate with time. Unfortunately they never go completely away. EMDR therapy is helpful.