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The problem is, we/I was overconfident in that trust being unbreakable. So, we never established healthy boundaries with the opposite sex. That left the door open. This affair didn’t happen in a day. It developed over years. I’m trying to apply equall fault to my wife and the AP, but it’s clear to me this was his intent from the start and she was genuinely just wanting a work friend. He kept chipping away over time, slowly moving the line until things started tipping in his favor. It’s hard to say if it would have happened if we had established boundaries early on. Anyways, I told my wife one thing I was selfishly sad about in this whole thing is the loss of someone I trusted so completely. It was her and my best friend from childhood on that list. Now there’s just one. I know she won’t ever be on that list again.

Come on buddy, you know better. If that was true you would have seen real remorse from her. Over the past 4 years, her behavior has been unbelievably cruel. Please stop romanticizing your WW. It will only cause you further pain.

BlueRaspberr - she finally read the Shirley glass book I gave her two years ago. That was a couple weeks ago. She keeps quoting thing out of it. She gave me all her passwords which I had asked for years ago with limited success. She did contact a friend and a relative who she had previously convinced that her friend was just a friend and I was crazy and controlling. Although they got the last version of the story when there was no sex. I hadn’t asked her to any of that recently, but I had asked it of her in the past. She has brought her counselor up to speed although I haven’t confirmed that. She’s offered unlimited access to everything forever. She offered to sign over all the assets to me which would not hold up in court. She’s respected my request that she not sleep in our bed. I’ve requested that in the past and she’s refused.

I said it before, but she told me in May she had been communicating with him again for 6-7 months. Her story is she was listening to a podcast and they were talking about empathy. She said it all the sudden clicked what she had been doing to me and putting me through. She stopped communications with him then. If she’s being honest it would be the first time she stopped communicating with him on her own without being caught. That would be significant if I believed it. When I did the data recovery on her computer May is the last file I was able to retrieve. She didn’t know the dates on the files I recovered, but the dates match what she says about her starting and stopping communication with him. I can believe computer time stamps.

AnOminousMan I was romanticizing the woman I’m married, not the woman I’m married to now.

Legatus,

It seems like you have a lot of pain bottled up inside of you. I'm not a bit surprised. Considering you've been betrayed by one of your bestfriend and a man who thought to be a friend but turned out to be a wolf. I'm surprised you were able to keep up. It's 1400 days (?) of pain. That's a lot of painful days.

Your wife still keeps a lot of secrets, that I am sure of. Her weekend getaways that you mentioned, pretty sure she was with him.

All the best!

AnOminousMan I was romanticizing the woman I’m married, not the woman I’m married to now.

I know. It sucks, really really, hard. I just think you should unburden yourself by accepting that there is no difference between the two.

Boundaries wouldn't have saved this. It also doesn't explain the cruelty after the fact.

No one wants to believe that they can never get back the person they fell in love with. But the reason you can't have the wife you loved back isn't that she's gone. It's because she never existed.

[This message edited by AnOminousMan at 12:03 AM, Friday, August 27th]

Legatus, you said

If she’s being honest it would be the first time she stopped communicating with him on her own without being caught. That would be significant if I believed it.

Not sure if it changes anything but perhaps she started (in some small way) to turn the corner before the recent pressure you exerted. If that is significant to you, perhaps you can confirm with the polygraph.

AnOminousMan I was romanticizing the woman I’m married, not the woman I’m married to now.

They are one and the same. You are romanticizing the woman you thought you married. Your bound may have been unbreakable, but history's shown hers wasn't. She's had at the very least boundary issues and lack of respect for you in the marriage for quite some time. As soon as she started omitting and minimizing she had already placed her fleeting moments of a relationship with AP above yours. It may be he was the instigator, but much more likely they were willing accomplices in the affair. If she was truly solely a victim, at the very least the first concern you had would spoke to her would snapped her back to her senses. Instead she did everything in her power to continue the affair. You are dealing with a very broken individual who only fears what she loses with you leaving. Stop thinking otherwise.

If she’s being honest it would be the first time she stopped communicating with him on her own without being caught. That would be significant

I'm just kinda picking at things here, but no it's not. Or it's significant in this way, you as a husband get to tell your story of how your wife has been communicating on and off with her AP for what... years? That's what's significant.

Legatus… have you given any thought to how things would go if she gives up on the marriage? If she accepts it’s done?

At the moment you’ve got a wife who desperately wants the marriage. Who’s doing all the right things and that makes being, for want of a better word, harsh with her easy. You can refuse to touch her, to wear the ring and so on and get no push back. She just takes her lumps and cries.

What if something gives? What if destroying her boyfriends marriage just leaves her jumping ship? Could you face an in house separation, possibly one with her openly with him?

Remember how she treated you when she supposedly wanted this marriage. I worry about how she will be once she thinks it’s beyond saving. She’s repeatedly protected herself and her boyfriend to your detriment. How will you deal with the day she stops leaving letters for you to ignore? When she stops trying. When she stops cooperating with your plans for revenge? What happens when she starts telling people you’re X or Y because she needs to protect her new life? She’s done it before.

In a lot of ways you’re still at her mercy. You’ve gone from wanting and needing her cooperation and honestly to fix your marriage to wanting and needing her cooperation and honesty to ruin his. Are you ready for her to go back to form and lie to you? To stop cooperating and being honest?

Just don’t be left holding the bag again. There’s a chance to get out. Ask yourself some of the questions you asked her about what’s best for the future, even if you’re not together. Just co-parents.

Not sure if I read from previous posts, but OM has multiple cheating incidents before? So even if they report to OBS, I think they won't divorce so WW is in a dilemma since she has nowhere to go. Not sure if I'm correct. I'll have to backread a bit.

What if now (at last) the cheating wife finally gets it and makes monumental changes?

Is it still too late to reconcile?

My H was like her in some ways. Denied his first 4 year EA. It ended but it was completely rug swept. 15 years later he has another EA turned PA and wants a D. Typical midlife crisis affair.

He then (after 6 months) starts to fully understand the damage he caused. He made a number of changes and we were lucky enough to reconcile. It’s been 8 years and things are very good.

While it may be too late for Legatus’ marriage - his wife is at least trying (finally). She got to a point in life where she finally gets it. Better late than never whether they R or D.

The1stWife - The way I feel right now in this moment I think it is too late to reconcile. I've been going back and reinterpreting things with the new information I have. When she returned from the trip she went out and got a birth control prescription. There were also searches on her search history for signs of early pregnancy. She claims she was nervous about my vasectomy not being effective. I think the more likely scenario is she didn't use protection with him and wanted to be ready for the next time. I monitored the prescription. She never took it, but we were having lots of sex during that period. So, the prescription was for the two of them.

[This message edited by Legatus at 2:23 PM, Friday, August 27th]

I think the more likely scenario is she didn't use protection with him and wanted to be ready for the next time.

I wouldn't spend a single minute talking to her, if that was me. It feels like, for the past 4 years, all she did was lie to my face and it's still ongoing right now. Yes, it's too late for reconciliation.

Legatus,

When she returned from the trip she went out and got a birth control prescription. There were also searches on her search history for signs of early pregnancy. She claims she was nervous about my vasectomy not being effective. I think the more likely scenario is she didn't use protection with him and wanted to be ready for the next time. I monitored the prescription. She never took it, but we were having lots of sex during that period. So, the prescription was for the two of them.

That is pretty damning. I don't see another way to interpret her actions here - they weren't using condoms and intended to continue the PA. She's been lying continuously for at least four years, so it is pretty ingrained in her character and your relationship. I'm sorry you are enduring all of this garbage. You deserve better.

Legatus, I am truly just so sorry you that this is your reality, it really bites.

If your cheating wife and her boyfriend used CONDOMS during their passionate fuck-fest, then they really deserve a prize for the most responsible fornicators in the history of cheaters. PUHLEASE. IT.DIDN'T.HAPPEN. And far from a trivial point, to me this serves as a litmus test showing your cheating wife continues to lie and minimize to protect her own interests, and gives a rats-ass less about giving you the gift of 100% transparency so you can make an informed decision.

The failure rate for vasectomies is well known and is 0.1 - 0.2% I'm afraid her excuse is ridiculous, as is her claim that a condom was used.

I haven't been well suited to writing for a while, so I haven't been able to write all of my thoughts except for short posts. Here are some things that came to my mind but couldn't find the opportunity to write.

She claims she was not thinking of or going there to have sex. It wasn't her plan. I'm not sure I believe that. I did ask if he wore a condom and she confirmed he did.

No, this was planned long in advance and ingeniously.

The reason for the counseling was we were having a recurring argument about her not living up to her end of the agreement to resume working after the kids were in school. During the counseling she brought up that she missed her old friends, she listed female friends, but also listed her old boss. She said there was a half marathon coming up in his town and she wanted to go run it with him and his wife. I agreed, we resolved the before mentioned argument and that was that.

It was no accident that she brought this up during the counseling. If she had told you directly, you would probably have said you don't want it. But after a fight you had to prove how understanding you were in front of the counselor. So you didn't object to her going that trip.

I can't say for sure if they had sex before you moved out of the state, but it's possible, even if they didn't, it's clear that they had an EA and their desire to have sex may emerged during their long distance relationship and probably they did sexting as well and they have had sex whenever they have the opportunity. They have made an effort to create an opportunity, that trip is an example of that.
When you said that your wife told she wanted to send a video to OBS, it immediately made me think that she might have sent videos to the AP.

She told me when she stopped talking to him this recent time she did it because she was listening to a podcast. I guess it talked about empathy. She said it hit her like a ton of bricks what she had been doing to me and decided to stop communicating with. Problem is I can’t believe that.

You are absolutely right in disbelief. She listened to the podcast in May, but gave you the timeline only 3 days ago, and she was still lying. If she really did understand what she did to you, she wouldn't be still lying, or it's worse, she doesn't care.

And the same goes for these.

she finally read the Shirley glass book I gave her two years ago. That was a couple weeks ago.
She gave me all her passwords which I had asked for years ago with limited success. She’s offered unlimited access to everything forever.

Nothing she seems to be doing or trying make her real honest, she was lying 3 days ago, she probably still is. As she realizes the hopelessness of her situation, she is forced to admit the truth in bits and pieces.

4 years, 4 whole fucking years, you were a suspicious, pathetic lunatic. So what now?
This personality of her is much worse than her cheating on you.

And she is still so sure that you'll get over it until the Mexcico trip in January. Either she doesn't realize the terribleness of what she's done, or she hopes you don't.

Most posters here already knew that. Not because we’re cynical but because when you read hundreds of stories, it’s almost always the same thing.

Even the "we slept in the same bed but nothing happened" is not new. I’m surprised you didn’t get the "I didn’t enjoy it" part. She must have forgotten that part

Have you considered talking to the OBS? By now she could have new information that you didn’t know about and explain some other stuff that doesn’t make sense at this point. And you can tell the OBS what you have found.

I think your WW thinks she can save the M by admitting only to the minimum. She doesn’t realize that her lies and failure to become a trustworthy partner after D day is what is killing you.

Sooooo many bs decide on D because of the continuing lying. It’s hard enough to accept the cheating but the lying kills love. Read Lying by Jonathan Wallace in the Ethical Spectacle. Old but spot on.

I think at some point L could have gone for R. But that was a while ago.

It is way to too little and way too late. The cards were a nice gesture if she was leaving them in your locker after lunch but this is not high school it is real life.

Maybe, WW is slowly starting to turn more to the M but for crying out loud she also has been living a l400 day lie and having basically another life. Now she is hardwired for lies, it will take a lot of IC and MC to save the M but L needs to ask what he is saving.

One night with a condom or 4 years without makes little difference. She is a cheater.

Look her go to thing is spin it back to you, even the preg test is because you may have a failed V. not that she's been banging her boyfriend with out ever using a condom for years.

If you separate there's a 50/50 chance she will try to work on things for a while then find out that it's harder than she thought and will mention why she is so glum to a co-worker guy over coffee then wash rinse repeat....

ETA- Sending a video is a power play on WW part. she controls the dialog.
Set up a skype or zoom call where the OBS can ask questions. She won't do it because she has no control over the out come. Or just a phone call on the speaker.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 7:17 PM, Friday, August 27th]