SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My wife of many, many years has often lied to me about things. Some lies have been small and insignificant, others so elaborate and preposterous that I have been shaken to my core when I’ve found them out. I have considered that she may be a pathological liar and will never admit to this. As I see it, her condition is comparable to an illness and I will not leave someone I love because of a psychological problem. Lord knows I have my fair share of them myself.

But as far as I know, this is the first time she has cheated on me.

I noticed the typical signs: guarding her phone like Cerberus, shutting it off when I entered the room, hiding her screen from me, being distant, changes in behavior. No need to bore you with the usual specifics.

But my suspicion rose when I decided to finally join Facebook and she refused to add me as her friend and couldn’t really give a good reason as to why.

I accidentally stumbled upon the profile of a man who, I noticed, she had been interacting with quite a lot. Scrolling through is profile I noticed posts about subjects she had been talking about passionately for months. Every topic she has discussed with me was something he had written about. Every song she was suddenly listening to at night when I was going to bed was of a band he had shared on his profile and she had liked. I also knew he was exactly the type of guy who she would be into.

I was sure my gut feeling was right.

So I confronted her. She denied it, of course, saying she could never be interested in this person and accused me of being controlling and paranoid.

Honestly, I thought I was. I suspected she was probably gaslighting me but as I haven’t been the perfect husband (I have never cheated on her but I have at times been angry, resentful and judgmental towards her for various reasons), I thought it was just my own fears taking a hold of me.

All of a sudden she started going out on certain nights for the most ridiculous reasons I never bought for a second. When I said I believed she was going on a date with him, she once again accused me of being controlling and an abusive husband who wouldn’t even let his wife leave the house alone.

The thing is, she was going on a date with him.

Finally, just the other night, she screamed at me about how stressed out she was because of some important issues she was supposedly going out to handle that night and how I didn’t understand the gravity of the “stuff” she dealt with - even as she was applying her make up and fixing her hair and putting on her new dress (a dress I had recently bought her on her request) and clearly getting ready for another date night, brazenly, right in front of me.

Once she was gone, I couldn’t take it anymore. I called her and told her I knew she was with him. She still lied. She stormed back home and accused me of going too far, of letting my paranoia ruin our relationship, said she was visiting family and I had shamed her in front of them with my delusions and abusiveness.

So I did what I usually haven’t been able to: I calmed down.

Very calmly, very tenderly, I took blame for pushing her towards another man through my own bitter behavior. I explained that I didn’t judge her for doing it, that I wasn’t angry, and that I loved her and that I still wanted to work things out. And then, in the end, she admitted the affair.

Hearing her admit the truth felt… amazingly good. I didn’t get angry. I was sad but relieved. I felt vindicated. I wasn’t paranoid or delusional or controlling or abusive. I was right. Hearing her admit it felt reassuring and I understood even clearer that it wasn’t the affair itself that hurt me the most, it was the lie.

But the thing is, we had already had an argument a couple of weeks earlier and decided to fix our marriage and reconnect again. It really felt like she wanted to. But at the same time she was messaging him and going out on dates with him and snapping at me for what I assume is guilt and stress.

So anyway, back to the present: we had what was probably the most calm discussion we have ever had. I did most of the talking.

A few days later, she has opened up about what happened between them and what I know seems to match what she tells me so I believe she is telling the truth, or some version of it.

She does resort to the typical tactics: saying they never had sex, that it was never physical, that she only wanted someone to talk to and some attention. But how can I be sure she isn’t downplaying it?

Am I handling this right or wrong by being the calm, rational and affectionate person I’ve now noticed I can be instead of venting and yelling and being angry?

Will this only lead to her continuing the affair, with more secrecy and lies? Or could this be a turning point?

We’ve talked about it and both agree that we should take this as a positive turn of events, a new possibility to both better ourselves instead of letting everything fall apart.

But I don’t know how to trust her yet.

I asked her to send the other man a message telling him not to contact her again. I’ve asked her to block him on Facebook. She keeps stalling. And even if she did block him, what would this really prove? Unblocking him is as easy as clicking a button. How can I be sure she doesn’t keep engaging with him online? How can I demand proof without further alienating her?

I’ve also said I feel a need to contact him myself and tell him to respect the boundaries of our marriage and move forward with his life. This seems to panic her. She insists it’s her responsibility to end it but to me it sounds like she desperately doesn’t want me to talk to him for some reason.

Could she mean it or is it just another lie?

What reason would she have not to want me contacting him apart from either wanting to keep her affair going or possibly lying to him, as well, about being married? Getting caught lying to anyone seems to be what scares her more than anything and I feel she might cover her lies up with more lies.

Should I contact him anyway, against her wishes? Is it ever a good idea to do that? If so, how do I deal with her getting angry at me for doing it, which she will inevitably do?

I really need this person gone from our lives before I feel I can truly move on to build a better future with my wife. But in this day and age, how can you ever be sure they are really gone?

Seeing her as his top friend on Facebook even as I write this makes me sick. Literally. I even feel like I am cheating on her for writing this post.

So am I doing things right or wrong? Are my compassion and tenderness making true change possible or am I only enabling deceitful behavior and setting myself up for an even bigger fall?

Thank you for reading.

Sorry man but all cheaters lie a lot. If they were dating multiple times it’s probably a sexual affair.

You didn’t cause her to cheat. Most betrayed spouses fall for this bullshit upfront.

Right now you are giving her total control so you’re gonna get what she wants to give you.

It sounds like the affair is ongoing. Just because you suspect doesn’t mean it’s gonna end.

Your current demeanor is telling her she can do as she pleases.

Don’t do the infamous “pick me dance” or try nicing her back all that does is lower your status while making her other man look great.

You should inform his wife immediately. Without warning your wife or they’ll conspire against you. Don’t worry about pushing your wife away. She’s already gone.

If you don’t get strong and take action quick it’ll just get worse.

Talking to her isnt going to get you a thing. Only your actions will count.

Better wake up quick!!!!

[This message edited by Marz at 11:22 PM, July 10th (Saturday)]

Pick me dance

Read No Mr. Nice Guy

Stop being a doormat

Cheaters do not meet up for a coffee and a chat, they do that over their phones and devices. Cheaters meet up to get physical. I have yet read an example of a wayward who would leave the home at night and it wasn't physical even though at the beginning of the post the betrayed spouse said "it was just emotional", it never happens because if they want each other, when together they have each other.

Read up about the 180 over in article section in the SI healing library (link is at the side if you're logged in, at the top if not) and implement that, this will give you control back and help you navigate what's next.

Kick her to the couch or spare room and take a time out from her.

Do read "Read No Mr. Nice Guy" as well as "Not just friends" two books that will help you get some control and perspective. If you've had enough "cheating in a nutshell" is a good one but not for those who have hope for R.

Forget the promise to work on the marriage, that was before you knew about this, right now you push that pause button until you decide what to do but right now your objective is NOT to win her back, if you find yourself doing the pick me dance stop because there is no success there. Before you consider reconciling you need to recover, do not be pressured into making any big choices, do not go to MC, the marriage isn't the issue your wife is, if she wants to work on the marriage she can start IC.

You'll hear this over and over until it sinks in, cheaters are liars. Treat everything she says as a lie, actions is what you want to focus on.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 11:55 PM, July 10th (Saturday)]

Sorry MS,

To answer you question yes and no. I think you made the right decision to play the calm spouse to finally get her to admit the affair that you had felt all along. However as others have said now no more Mr. Nice Guy! Tell due to her lying you need the following things from her to stay in the marriage. 1) She needs to end the affair in front of you or you with her if in person. If not you will notify him and his wife. 2) She provides a timeline of the entire affair (everything 1 chance no trickle truth) 3) She takes a polygraph to verify the timeline and her claim of no sex between them. If she refuses then you should walk and file for divorce. Best of luck!

[This message edited by HappilyMarried1 at 12:12 AM, July 11th (Sunday)]

If you reconcile and you suspect infidelity again, hire a PI. You'll get proof in black and white next time, no more relying on a confession.

What to do now? You know pal I see a LOT of tears in your future being married to this woman.

Contacting her affair partner expecting him to be reasonable or embarrassed may well be a waste of time. You might get laughed at (either out loud, or up his sleeve). Appealing to her affair partner, and to your wife... man you're appealing liars and cheaters here. Don't like your odds of success.

Now she confuses me even more.

I said I may want to see the message she sends the OG saying she wants no more contact. She flipped completely and screamed at me for controlling her life and complaining how she doesn’t get to have any life of her own and threatening with “consequences” if I approach the guy myself, without specifying what they might be.

She then all of a sudden claimed she didn’t actually date the guy she first admitted to at all, and that he was only a friend. Instead she now insists she was, in fact, briefly seeing another person she was involved with years ago but that they were not sexual, either, but only talked.

She still claims she wants to continue our marriage but will not remove these two people from her life online. She keeps saying she won’t let me control herself like that.

To me, it smells of complete bullshit, and I am shell shocked by the lies she keeps piling upon lies. Then she yells at me when I tell her I don’t know what to believe anymore. I told her this anxiety is taking a toll on my health (no sleep, heart starting to have problems etc) and asked her if she wants me to die.

She said: Maybe.

I think that’s the worst thing I’ve ever heard and a while later she said she regretted saying that and that she didn’t mean it.

By this time in her narrative, the original admission of an affair has turned into a meeting between friends and the latter reveal (or lie, whichever it is) which she at first admitted to being romantic, has turned into another meeting of two old friends. And I, somehow, have now turned into an abusive, controlling husband who doesn’t let her meet her friends - the affairs, it seems, didn’t actually exist at all, and even if they did, it’s wrong of me to constantly accuse her of them (it’s been 2 days since the first reveal) and that she’s sick and tired of me going over it constantly.

I am in shock and every time I let her see it she shouts at me more. I even made her read Joseph’s letter, which only pissed her off.

I feel she will only be satisfied if I fall back into the illusion of a loving marriage while she keeps on having her online affairs and occasional physical affairs. I am a wreck.

Sorry, MrStrange,

You have nothing to work with here. She is an unremorseful, callous, lying cheater who is almost certainly still in an active affair.

Gather all the evidence you can and expose her affair as widely as you see fit without compromising your legal standing.

File for divorce and have her served.

I'm just telling you what I would have done in your shoes, because that is what I did when I was in your shoes.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:33 AM, July 11th (Sunday)]

Don't believe in the gaslighting. You should be firm on your stand that this is her last chance to tell the truth otherwise you'll file for D. Don't ever give in to her. The shouting means she's being defensive. She's clearly not telling the truth and she was already caught in the web of lies she created herself.

Two adults who have clear emotional attachment to each other don't just meet as 'old friends'. They plan and meet to have sex. That's 100% sure. Don't ever believe in her lies. She's lying to save herself.

You have to ask her for STD tests for both of you since she practically admitted to seeing the person - you would know the answer to this one based on her answer, polygraph if she's telling the truth or not, written timeline of her affair and match it against her messages, and send no contact to both guys she was seeing.

Either she agrees or you're out. Be firm on it.

Good luck!

[This message edited by beb252 at 9:43 AM, Sunday, July 11th]

To me, it smells of complete bullshit, and I am shell shocked by the lies she keeps piling upon lies.

That's because it is bullshit.

As you surround yourself with more and more information about infidelity you will see patterns, especially how the waywards act while in the affair and then when they are found out. The screaming and accusing of abuse and privacy is her hysteria speaking from being cornered and found out. This is some WW go to emotions, shift blaming everything off of them and the affair and onto you and the marriage, I have no clue if this is because they have been lying to their affair partners and now believe the lies themselves or not but do not take this on board. It is her, 100% her, not you, not the marriage and she is currently scrambling and losing control.

Really concerned about....

[...]asked her if she wants me to die.

She said: Maybe.

Her lashing out in hysterics, the fact you do not know whom she is talking to, do not take this lightly. Do not brush this off as "she was just mad" treat this as serious, this is troubling. The other man (men) might believe she is an abused housewife and think they're knights in shining armor paying you a visit, tread lightly here, avoid her while you figure things out. This is not normal, anyone who unjustly accuses an innocent person as abusive operate on no morals and are master manipulators, since this is her go-to it's safe to say this is who she has always been, you just don't start thinking that way.

See a D lawyer, understand what you need to do to file, mention this conversation and that she is throwing accusations of abuse and they will advise you what needs to do to protect yourself from this hysterical WW. You need to tell more then internet strangers here of this, protect yourself, be cautious, she sounds unhinged. Do you have family to talk too? Tell someone.

Stop confronting her ATM, if she approaches, leave the room, ignore her if possible. Hard 180, speak to a lawyer ASAP, not saying D but speak to one to protect yourself before you confront her again. I would go get a VAR to keep on you at all times moving forward, not just after the death wish but the fact she is sickening throwing the abuse accusations around.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 3:58 AM, July 11th (Sunday)]

If you read some other stories on here you will see many similarities, there really is a script that cheaters follow. In regards to contacting the OM I wouldn’t bother. I did that and he told me what she had. At the time I fell for it, until I got the phone bill and realised that they had been in contact on DD - plenty of time to get their stories straight. Basically you can’t trust him.

If he has a wife, contact her for sure. When I did that I found out that they had split up nearly a year earlier….that was a real insight to the betrayal.

Plan on divorce, make sure to look after yourself. Get lots of exercise and lay of the alcohol. It will be a tough road over the coming months but stay strong.

I told her this anxiety is taking a toll on my health (no sleep, heart starting to have problems etc) and asked her if she wants me to die.

She said: Maybe

Dear Lord, this is just beyond the pale. Despite the subsequent apology, this was no doubt a Freudian slip that shows she sees you as an obstacle to her happiness. I would also be a bit fearful given that reaction and what she would be willing to do to clear her path to her APs. Like a previous poster said, get a VAR for your own protection, especially since she called you “abusive.”

At the very least, see a lawyer ASAP to protect yourself and begin filing for D. Start separating your funds as well. I would also begin the 180 and begin to disengage from her. She is clearly toxic.

Typical cheater behavior:

Accuses the betrayed spouse (BS) of being controlling and paranoid

Refuses to be honest about anything

Yells and scrams when asked a question - used to avoid and deflect from the real issue

Refuses to stop having contact with the Other Man (OM)

Lies despite evidence to the contrary such as phone bills proving there is still contact with OM

Blaming the BS for the affair

Right now you have a spouse that is continuing to cheat on you. There is no chance of reconciliation if she refuses to stop the cheating.

Sorry for you. You seem to be in big trouble.

First of all, about your approach, being calm and rational is very good but don't nice her back and pick me dance. These never work, never, on the contrary, make things worse.

Obviously she is a liar and cheater. You won't get anywhere by talking to her. Don't expect her to see and understand things by talking to her, that won't happen.

It's true what she said, you can't force her to do something, who can guarantee that she won't continue to do the opposite even if she seems to admit it? But you don't have to put up with it either.

Instead of dictating what she will or won't do, you must decide what you will do and apply without compromise if she continues to do so.

You can tell her that she can do whatever she wants and you won't be controlling about it. But add that you, as a husband, don't have to put up with that and will initiate divorce proceedings asap. Don't say that as a threat or as a bluff. See a lawyer and find out what your legal options are.

As for some of the things you wrote.

Yes, the signs are classic signs of cheating.

I suspected she was probably gaslighting me but as I haven’t been the perfect husband (I have never cheated on her but I have at times been angry, resentful and judgmental towards her for various reasons)

I took blame for pushing her towards another man through my own bitter behavior.

Don't blame yourself for her cheating, she'll do that a lot anyway. But that's all about her. You may not be the perfect husband but can you say that she is the perfect wife, apart from her cheating?

But the thing is, we had already had an argument a couple of weeks earlier and decided to fix our marriage and reconnect again. It really felt like she wanted to. But at the same time she was messaging him and going out on dates with him and snapping at me for what I assume is guilt and stress.

There is a saying here; "Don't believe anything she says, believe half of what you see."

they never had sex, that it was never physical, that she only wanted someone to talk to and some attention.

Cheaters always say much less than what happened when they're caught.

But I don’t know how to trust her yet.

You can't, don't trust either.

I’ve also said I feel a need to contact him myself and tell him to respect the boundaries of our marriage and move forward with his life. This seems to panic her. She insists it’s her responsibility to end it but to me it sounds like she desperately doesn’t want me to talk to him for some reason.

Don't contact him, contact his wife/GF without her knowledge. Although, looking at what she told later, it comes to mind that she may have put him forward to cover up her A with someone else. Still, if you tell his W/GF what happened, you gain a ally as a second eye watching them.

Another reason why she doesn't want you to contact him could be that there is so much more than she told.

I even feel like I am cheating on her for writing this post.

Good luck finding this place at this stage. Everyone here has experienced before what you've been through now. Here, too, we have witnessed thousands of similar incidents. Therefore, we have already memorized what works and what does not.

Don't think that your situation and your wife are unique and special. This is a very typical cheating case.

Stay with us and don't tell anything your WW about this site.

and threatening with “consequences” if I approach the guy myself, without specifying what they might be.

I already told you above to contact OBS, not the AP. But this demeanor shows how lame she is, she is the one who must face the consequences of her actions.

She then all of a sudden claimed she didn’t actually date the guy she first admitted to at all, and that he was only a friend. Instead she now insists she was, in fact, briefly seeing another person she was involved with years ago but that they were not sexual, either, but only talked.

It doesn't matter, she can be a serial cheater or she can be in an A just with one of them. You should expose them to their OBSs.

She still claims she wants to continue our marriage but will not remove these two people from her life online. She keeps saying she won’t let me control herself like that.

She just wants eat her cake and you to stand by and watch. As I said above, tell her she can do whatever she wants, but not as your wife.

Don't mind the constant changing of the story. Neither is correct.

At this stage, don't say you intend for R. I would turn my direction to D. If at some stage you see real remorse as evidenced by actions, you can slow down or stop the process. For now she doesn't look like R material.

To find out with whom she's in A, it's helpful to place a VAR in her car and in the house parts where she makes phone calls most.

It's also important to have a VAR on you in case you come across false accusations like domestic violence, given her liar and aggressive personality.

You can also place a GPS tracker in her car or activate applications that show location on her phone.

You can also monitor her phone calls and messagings if you can see it.

Good luck.

Her anger and lashing out is right out of the Cheaters 101 textbook. Her affair(s) is still ongoing and almost assuredly physical. Voice activated recorders (VAR) and GPS location should be used if you have any desire to reconcile. You are being told monumental lies.

Do not let her know about this website. Find a friend or family member to confide in. Quit trying to reason with her and just watch her actions. I am very concerned with your physical and mental well-being. She is currently not your friend. She is at the moment your enemy. Be vigilant. Good luck.

She told she wanted you to die.

Believe her.

This is beyond anything else - wasn't a slip of the tongue.

File for divorce immediately this week, or watch your health continue to decline.

Read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy today!

You're married to a cold, remorseless serial cheater. The worst kind of adulterer.

Proverbs 30:20 This is the way of an adulteress: she eats and wipes her mouth and says, "I have done no wrong."

Why would you want to reconcile with someone who told you they wished you would die?

That is the worst thing anyone could say. It shows you EXACTLY how they think and feel about you.

In my darkest days of my life I never wished my H was dead. Never!

How can you ever believe her if she told you she loved you at some point in the future?

To me, it smells of complete bullshit, and I am shell shocked by the lies she keeps piling upon lies.

I'm not being a smart-ass, but WHY are you shocked?

My wife of many, many years has often lied to me about things. Some lies have been small and insignificant, others so elaborate and preposterous that I have been shaken to my core when I’ve found them out. I have considered that she may be a pathological liar and will never admit to this. As I see it, her condition is comparable to an illness and I will not leave someone I love because of a psychological problem.

She is a pathological liar. And if you won't consider leaving this person, then there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that can help you get out of infidelity.

BUT, if possibly divorcing this woman is an option, then maybe we can help. The path to reconciliation and divorce start out on the same path, then branch off. You have to be willing to take either fork in the road.

What's one of the biggest cornerstones of a solid, loving relationship? TRUST. And not only do you have zero of this(and to be fair, NO NEWLY BETRAYED have this), but she was a compulsive liar prior to her affair(s). You will never be able to rebuild any trust with this behavior......let alone that she is in FULL wayward behavior besides this. She is textbook, with the added bonus of pathological lying.

MS, the only chance you have of rebuilding a healthy relationship is if your wife does a total personality teardown and rebuild. You are talking about changing an entire lifestyle of behavior, and as difficult as this is, SHE HAS TO WANT TO DO IT FOR HERSELF. Nobody can coerce her into doing this. If there is ONE thing that you will learn from this experience, is that we have no control over others; only ourselves.

So right now, ironically, the main issue with the implosion of your marriage is with YOU.

--Are YOU willing to divorce if necessary?

--Are YOU going to allow her to treat you this way?

--Are YOU going to accept that treating a cheating, lying partner with passivity is making matters worse?

Unfortunately, YOU are going to have to make changes on yourself before you demand change from your partner. It seems unfair and punitive in a way, but this is what you are going to learn if you want out of infidelity.

Sorry @MisterStrange

It sounds she is done with the marriage unless you are only willing to do everything she feels that you need to. I would file papers tomorrow and have her served as soon as possible. I also would not have anymore conversation with her in person unless you have a VAR or some other recording device on your person. I would try to keep everything as calm as possible to get yourself the best terms possible in your divorce. Then after the divorce is final, I would then set the true narrative. I would let everyone in your life know the truth and I would then make sure now the other two guys she told you about if they have spouses let them know. Best of luck!!

[This message edited by HappilyMarried1 at 9:49 AM, July 11th (Sunday)]

Your WW is in an ACTIVE A right in front of you and you seem to just roll over and take it, you seem afraid of her reaction, you're doing the infamous "Pick me dance", IT NEVER WORKS. Right now you have absolutely NOTHING to work with, I suggest you file for D and have her served without warning, you can always stop it if she comes around and ends her A right in front of you, commits to NC FOREVER and full on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices and passwords, no questions asked, these are consequences to her huge betrayal, and don't forget to get tested for STDs, adults having an A don't just talk about the weather or hold sweaty hands, they have SEX !

Keep posting frequently, the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through this difficult situation, we've "seen" it play out THOUSANDS of times here and in other websites, just look at your member number, every case is different but cheaters typically follow a similar script.