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Gender inclusive language?

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ZenMumWalking posted 4/22/2021 11:04 AM

The psychological impact of forcing a biological woman to sit in a room with a male is just as devastating.

Who is FORCING anyone to sit anywhere?

The government decides not to fund a discriminatory enterprise. So what? go to a place where you pay to be treated in the way you prefer. The. End.

Lionne posted 4/22/2021 11:10 AM

NJ, in addition to ALLOWING parents to skip the gender box, now ALLOWS citizens to use X instead f choosing a gender on driving licenses.

Nobody is forcing the issue.

DragnHeart posted 4/22/2021 11:48 AM

I get that you have rape ptsd. Did you know that I have too? I have been able to deal with this with my (male) psychiatrist. My son still has ptsd from his gang-rape a few years ago. He has had both male and female therapists. He has managed not to have fear of individuals in a therapy-based environment. Perhaps that could help you too. Perhaps instead of focusing on an individual's penis (ie, differences) you could consider focusing on what you have in common.
Grasping so tightly to your pain is not helping you. I wish that you could see this so that your healing can continue on a good path!!

NOT MY PTSD!!!!

I was a member of the on campus medical team at university. We looked like paramedics with all the equipment and training we had. One night when off shift i female student asked me to come to her friends room. There was a woman who had experienced a "trauma", though she never gave details, i knew. She had been drinking. She wasnt comfortable going to the on campus medical centre with male doctors on staff. She was a frigging mess. She refused medical treatment because of fear. Fear of the male doctors, fear of being told she was into it because she was drunk. I helped as best i could, gave her the resources for a womans crisis centre and sat with her while she cried. That has stuck with me for over 20 years. There was no manditory reporting back then. But think how she would have felt if i had called in the on duty medical team and they were male?

So, just MHO, but this doesn't really seem like a valid fear to me.

Just because it doesnt seem valid to YOU doesnt mean it isnt valid to someone else!

I dont have a problem with transpeople. I have a problem with having to change how i act or teach to appease them.

Dont teach that some people have periods or mestruate or get pregnant. Teach what is biologically correct. Nothing like having a six year old boy freak out when he hears his older sister explaining that SOME PEOPLE have periods. I had to then explain AGAIN that only people with girl parts can do that. Do you see how using the language SOME PEOPLE can be confusing and misleading?

I have a problem with a father who is sitting in jail because he hasnt worked through his grief at losing the child he had for the child he has now.

Chromebooks and wifi are a pain in the ass! Figures the day i take down the christmas tree we get two days of snow. I dont drink wine but im about to crack open a beer.

[This message edited by DragnHeart at 11:56 AM, April 22nd (Thursday)]

DragnHeart posted 4/22/2021 11:59 AM

Who is FORCING anyone to sit anywhere?

If the only place available to a biological woman is a publicly funded crisis centre then she has to either chose to sit in a room that may contain males or not go at all. Not all woman can afford private therapy.

ZenMumWalking posted 4/22/2021 12:01 PM

She wasnt comfortable going to the on campus medical centre with male doctors on staff.

But this is not the only possibility for reporting and for treatment. It just isn't.

DragnHeart posted 4/22/2021 12:08 PM

I could not convince her to go to the city hospital.

Things were just different back then. Rapes weren't reported to anyone. If you wore a short dress you asked for it. If you had a drink then you were remembering things wrong. Geez i didnt tell anyone i had been raped for years after it happened. Actually i even lied to my doctor when i asked for the morning after pill only to find out i was to late and end up miscarrying.

FaithFool posted 4/22/2021 12:23 PM

Forgot to add that the rape counselling centre was also tagged with KILL ALL TERFS graffiti, a dead animal was nailed to the door and another stuffed in the mail slot.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 12:36 PM, April 22nd (Thursday)]

ZenMumWalking posted 4/22/2021 12:35 PM

Wow FF, that's all kinds of fucked up. NOT protected speech imho. And does nothing to advance the cause of trans acceptance.

FaithFool posted 4/22/2021 12:37 PM

Yes ZMum, I believe it's called terrorism.

ZenMumWalking posted 4/22/2021 12:37 PM

I understand how different things were then Dragn. I was raped around 40 years ago. Didn't report. Didn't tell anyone until I started talking about it to my psychiatrist about 2 years ago.

BraveSirRobin posted 4/22/2021 12:37 PM

Forgot to add that the rape counselling centre was also tagged with KILL ALL TERFS graffiti and a dead animal was nailed to the door and another stuffed in the mail slot.
That is a terrible, terrible thing. Those crimes should be investigated, and anyone found responsible should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

It's also completely irrelevant to a trans person's right to access taxpayer-funded crisis services.

DragnHeart posted 4/22/2021 12:38 PM

Pardon my ignorance but what does terfs stand for?

ZenMumWalking posted 4/22/2021 12:38 PM

I believe it's called terrorism.

At the very least!!

FaithFool posted 4/22/2021 12:40 PM

I don't agree it's irrelevant. It was an unfortunate result of a prominent transwoman stoking the hate against feminists standing their ground.

Chili posted 4/22/2021 12:45 PM

I know this is getting off the language piece a little bit, but might fit into the broader discussion of being inclusive.

So to BSR:

I didn't think he had earned the title of "woman."

I'm honestly really curious about how you reconciled these kinds of thoughts? Because I wonder if issues of gender push those appropriation buttons for people.

I've often wondered how "female or male only" high schools and universities are dealing with this issue especially if a transition happens during enrollment. Does someone get kicked out of school?

I wrote out a personal example here but deleted it because I didn't want to violate the no-religion rules. But my example was about people pulling the "fun" or "easy" pieces of different cultures and celebrating them without sort of "paying their dues." I know it's not the same thing, but I suspect my conflicted feelings about that issue might be in a similar wheelhouse as your post about Caitlyn Jenner.

DragnHeart posted 4/22/2021 12:52 PM

I'm honestly really curious about how you reconciled these kinds of thoughts?

I am curious as well because i felt the same. Made all his fame and fortune off being a man then got hailed as a hero for coming out as a woman.

Im sure that rubbed a lot of woman the wrong way especially in what has been a mainly male dominated society with regards to job titles and salary. Womans lib, the right to vote, work, etc had been a struggle for generations.

I really don't think that a transwoman shares the same struggles as a biological woman. Not that we cannot be empathetic to each others struggles.

BraveSirRobin posted 4/22/2021 13:29 PM

The basis of my resentment was a fundamental misunderstanding of trans identity. It's not Caitlyn Jenner's fault that she didn't have the same female experience that I did. She was born with a body that was incompatible with her brain, and so her experience as a woman was very different from mine. I would have had a different experience as a woman if I were born into a country where I wasn't allowed to go to school, or drive a car, or say no to my husband's sexual demands. If a woman from one of those countries said to me, "You aren't a real woman because you didn't have the same formative experiences that I did," I wouldn't agree that she was more of a woman than I am. We have some commonalities and some differences. What I'd want is for both of us to overcome the particular adversities that were dealt to us and smooth the path so that other women wouldn't face them.

There are experiences that my son will never undergo. For instance, he's never going to have an unfortunately timed involuntary erection. I assume that's an embarrassing and unpleasant thing to have happen, and my kid certainly isn't a fan of public embarrassment. But he would be more than glad to pay that price in return for not having an asterisk next to his gender identity of "man." He passionately wants to go about his quiet daily business as an ordinary man. (He damn sure doesn't want to rape anyone.)

Caitlin Jenner is a woman. She's not my favorite woman, TBH -- we disagree on a variety of guideline-violating topics -- but she's a woman, and she's worked harder than I ever did to earn the title. These days, denying her womanhood feels to me like I'm a natural born citizen loudly proclaiming that immigrants aren't real Americans. I may love my country, but immigrants have had to do so much more than I ever did to prove that love. Maybe Jenner wanted nothing more than to experience cramps and boorish passes and other negative things that proved she was In The Club. Instead, she's paid different prices, of self-hatred and rejection and wondering if she's nuts to feel the way she feels. It's a lonely version of womanhood. But it's no less real.

*Edited for grammar

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 9:13 PM, April 22nd (Thursday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 4/22/2021 13:49 PM

I don't agree it's irrelevant. It was an unfortunate result of a prominent transwoman stoking the hate against feminists standing their ground.
As a board member of a women's crisis service organization, I don't ever remember a documented attack on our facilities by a trans person. Cisgender men are a different story. Was the perpetrator caught?

I also believe that a transgender woman arguing for full social, economic, and political equality for transgender women is a feminist, because transgender women are women.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 1:50 PM, April 22nd (Thursday)]

wildbananas posted 4/22/2021 13:58 PM

Pardon my ignorance but what does terfs stand for?

Trans exclusionary radical feminist

DragnHeart posted 4/22/2021 14:00 PM

Thankyou wildbananas

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