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perception vs. truth

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steadychevy posted 4/8/2021 07:54 AM

Well done, sir.

HouseOfPlane posted 4/8/2021 08:23 AM

I wasn’t spending money for further proof—the first photos told me everything I didn’t need to know...Seeing those photos ended any small, pathetic, voice inside me thinking that there was a chance this could be overcome.
For folks who do research on how humans make decisions, they’ve broken it into phases. The first two are basically gather evidence and then chew on it. The next is decide. Make the decision itself.

But here’s the interesting thing, that’s not the last stage. The last one is consolidate. You go out and gather evidence to confirm the choice. Verify that that car was the best one for you, nothing else on the menu was as good as the meatloaf, dumping your cheating wife was the best option.

So gathering extra information to lock it in is wise. The danger, of course, is if you seek it from her, you open yourself to manipulation. And she is obviously r e a l l y good at it.

A lesson you learn from martial arts...every time you throw a punch you leave an opening.

Sending strength!

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 11:31 AM, April 8th (Thursday)]

lparistotle posted 4/8/2021 09:19 AM

Absolon

You have handled this perfectly. Bigger your response I have issues with also. Absolon needs to control the narrative. His ex is a entitled habitual cheater. This needs to be out there. She is very much broken. How many fiancés has she had?
I would meet with the father for closure but I would never engage her again unless she wants the world to know what kind of a person she really is. You are smarter than most. You observed You took action you responded appropriately when the "gift" of a clean break was changed to make you look bad.

Well done

newlife03 posted 4/8/2021 10:29 AM

Well done. You did good by defending yourself.

Having the PI check on them Easter weekend not only helped you but hopefully helped the OBS as she was still in the dark about her husband's actions.

You did good.

SpaceGhost0007 posted 4/8/2021 18:06 PM

Anyone that lets a charge of abuse go unanswered is a fool. You had every right to respond to her lie. If you don’t respond the lie becomes a fact.

I watched my brother get removed from his home by a bogus charge of abuse. I told him to carry a voice recorder and it saved him. He went to his doctor to find out where his daughter was and one of the receptionist told him he was disgusting. His ExW has taken their daughter to the doctor and he was already guilty before anyone knew. He was also saved by his 5 year old daughter.

She told a state doctor that she wanted her Dad. She told them her Mom would choke her when she got mad. His ExW had 2 daughters in their 20’s come forward and told the court Mom was abusive and the court gave custody to my brother.

Always fight abuse charges when someone lies about you and in this case where they are contacting people you know. Any other policy is pure stupidity since people lose their jobs over this stuff. Good job and keep up the great work.

I also had a very attractive wife and the cheating makes her less attractive. I divorced her but I have also forgiven her after a long time and we are friends again. You dodged a bullet since your fiancée was a chronic cheater. Count your blessings you found out before the wedding.

Unsure2019 posted 4/8/2021 18:20 PM

Don’t want to do a T/J here, but I have a quick question for SpaceGhost0007. I followed your story a long time ago and you’re still a legend around here. I don’t recall ever seeing any posts from you about forgiving your wife and becoming friends. If you did post, can you point me to it and if not I’ll bet a lot of folks here would like to see and update in R or G from you.

DeWittle posted 4/8/2021 20:34 PM

Like the others have stated Absolon, you should be proud of how you’ve conducted yourself. Hopefully you’ve forwarded the new info to OBS.

I also hope you’ll continue to post, both here and with other newly betrayed.

GoldenR posted 4/8/2021 20:51 PM

"I don't want to threadjack, but...I'm gonna threadjack."

SnowToArmPits posted 4/8/2021 22:09 PM

OP - That was a very clever accusation by your ex.

I told my wife about your thread. When I said your ex told everyone you were emotionally abusive and how you asked on fb "did my ex ever seem emotionally abused"? My wife's immediate reaction was "abused women often hide their abuse and no one knows about it".

You did well in your fb rebuttal, but I'm just saying don't be surprised if some people doubt you. Even though you've proved a pattern of lying, cheating and deception via photos and her ex's history told to you.

Buffer posted 4/9/2021 00:09 AM

Why is there a need to protect her image?
She has shot that to shit! Let all know through the PI photos.
She will continue to repeat her past so she will never be safe.
One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 1:35 AM, April 10th (Saturday)]

Absolon posted 4/11/2021 16:14 PM

As always, I wish to begin by thanking this community for its support. I know I don’t engage directly much with the posts / posters, but please don’t let that belie my feelings of warmth and gratitude for the advice and care I have received since first posting. I feel so fortunate to have discovered SI.

I am out of town on a business trip and, alone in my hotel room now, it feels like the first time in a while that I have been able to breathe and take stock.

Wednesday I called the OBS and asked to meet her. She said she knew why I wanted to meet and that she did not wish to suffer further pain. She is close friends of one of the bridesmaids, who had told her about my Facebook post. I expressed my concern to her that she was allowing herself to be continually damaged by her husband and told her that meeting with me and seeing the photos from the second consecutive affair weekend would, surprisingly, turn out to be empowering for her in the longer term. She disagreed.

My WF has been texting, calling and even emailing since my Facebook post revealing her 2nd infidelity weekend. I have not said a single word to her directly in 10 days. The tone of her texts has evolved from spite and anger on the day of the Facebook post, to hurt and despondency midweek, to begging, pleading, negotiating, promising, and so forth over the last few days. She has apparently left a hand-written letter in my mailbox, while I have been away, detailing her reasons for being given another chance as well as her multi-step plan to atone for all of this.

I made the right decision to expose to our wedding party the real reasons for the cancellation of the marriage. Not only did I have to defend myself immediately from such heinous claims that I was an abusive person, but it also constituted the absolute most minimal consequence of her failing to take the path of integrity by telling the truth, in her own words, about why our relationship has come to an end. I have spoken with each of the groomsmen as well as two of the bridesmaids and it is clear they came to my defense immediately and turned on her quickly for a) being a cheater and b) for being so utterly craven as to turn around and suggest that I was abusive.

Part of me is superficially concerned that her sudden about-face and desire to win me back has not come from a good place within her, but from the community response to her actions. I feel / fear that had there been less opprobrium for her from everyone in the group, and had—say—a few of them believed her poisonous lies, that she wouldn’t as swiftly be begging for my mercy.
But I can’t worry about that.

I will disappoint all of you by saying that I agreed to meet with her father on Thursday. We met at his golf club for mid-afternoon drinks. It was a long and difficult and complex discussion. Her father is a very, very high-powered man and one of the most high profile people in the city where we live. I have to be very careful saying any more than that. He took me in his confidence by telling me that he had had two big affairs when my WF was younger (a detail my WF never shared with me): the first, a year-long one when she was 10; the second, a lengthier one when she was 15-16.

He told me this because he blames himself for his daughter’s infidelities towards me. He pointed out how she has always worshipped him and that he didn’t do a sufficiently strong job of pointing out to his daughter—when both affairs were revealed—why what he did was so wrong and how it might have hurt her mother, the children, the larger family.

He told me that she has never loved another man like she has loved me, and that this is the first time a man has actually held her accountable for any form of poor behaviour. He suggested that I hold tremendous power here and that I have a ‘God-like’ opportunity to grant his daughter forgiveness and salvation. That my ability to forgive her and reforge the relationship will not only be the mark of a ‘Great Man’, but that it will also secure her lifelong loyalty to me from her.

I won’t lie: there was a tremendous amount of seductiveness in the thoughts I had surrounding those words. But then he made the mistake of saying that, given his power and name, he could open ‘x door’ and ‘y door’ for me by doing ‘z’. And, I could see how his name would enable just that. However when he said that to me, I then lost my cool. In the flash of a moment, I saw little difference between his thinking, on the one hand, that his name and power could absolve any sin and, of course, on the other hand, my WF’s thinking that her physical beauty could absolve her many infidelities.

If it weren’t for SI, I wouldn’t have been able to say what I said next, which was: “I don’t think you understand. It will take years for your daughter to re-enter my life in any form.” I said, “For me to be with her again, I would need to know that she truly had understanding, empathy, self-knowledge, and genuine remorse.” But, I said, “that will be a long journey for her. She has been doing this for years and years and her damage is deeply engrained.” To his credit, he respected my stance and asked me to just give it all a bit more time.

Friday morning, a few hours before I was to head to the airport, the OBS phoned and with a shaky voice asked whether I could meet for coffee. I agreed.

In the name of respect and dignity, I will not share the details of the painful 40 minutes we spent together. But the second round of photos were horrible for her to see and to process. Yet by the end of the chat, she was actually making some headway around the reality of what her husband had done with her—and with one of her actual friends, no less—and I believe she is finally embarking down her own, slow, difficult pathway to the light. Part of me was tempted to point her here, but then I realized I wanted to keep this to myself and I also don’t want things to get messy and more complex and internecine than they already are.

But I will say that my emotions after meeting her were complex. As I looked at the little earth from 35,000 feet, I felt the following emotions for her: the first was anger, that she could allow herself to be repeatedly abused like that (and as many point out on SI, infidelity is a form of abuse) and still want him back; next came tremendous relief and pride, that I am somehow not ensnared in such feelings for my WF; and finally there was deep sadness for her, that the stakes involved in the fallout of all of this, for her, are so, so, so much worse than the ‘clean break’ I am afforded and will pursue.

Finally, yesterday before dinner, I received a long email from my WF’s mother. She had enough empathy to acknowledge how I might be feeling, but then proceeded to share that a) her daughter has revealed all of the details about her affair to her, and that b) she has never seen her daughter so broken, and that c) would I, at some level, take some time to consider giving her another chance. Wow. It’s like me and my pain around this are the deepest afterthought ever.

My three final thoughts:
1. Is there something wrong with me in my complete desire to never see this woman again? I have read so many threads here and on other post-adultery-type forums, and I see almost nobody who doesn’t have at least 5% desire to be back with the adulterer. I am worried there is something very hollow in me that I can have no desire to have her back with me, when it is clearly the most human emotion to want to return to the Time Before the Infidelity, to that innocent and golden space.
2. How could my WF reveal the details of her infidelity to her mother but hasn’t had the integrity to do so yet with me?
3. How do I prepare myself emotionally for what might be in my WF’s handwritten letter? As per point 1, my deeper concern is that I am like … that I am like the shoreline of a beach about to be hit by the waves of a tsunami: where the pain is receding safely, seemingly, out to sea – only to have much much more powerful waves hurtling their way towards me, about to engulf me. I am worried that the content of that letter will open the space in my heart for me to want her back. And that scares me deeply.

HellFire posted 4/11/2021 16:28 PM

He suggested that I hold tremendous power here and that I have a ‘God-like’ opportunity to grant his daughter forgiveness and salvation. That my ability to forgive her and reforge the relationship will not only be the mark of a ‘Great Man’, but that it will also secure her lifelong loyalty to me from her.


Didn't work that way for his wife, who forgave him, then he cheated on her again.

BlueRaspberry posted 4/11/2021 16:32 PM

Absolon,

You've gone through a tremendous amount of trauma in a short period of time, so it is natural to question yourself. Please understand, however, that you have handled this issue admirably.

You ask "Is there something wrong with me in my complete desire to never see this woman again?". Absolutely not. This woman lied to you, cheated on you and a good friend, risked your health, then besmirched your good name. Why would you ever want to speak to her again?

You ask "How could my WF reveal the details of her infidelity to her mother but hasn’t had the integrity to do so yet with me?" The answer is your WF has NO integrity. She lies with impunity and her actions are self-serving. Now that you've outed her on Facebook with indisputable evidence, she's trying to minimize the damage by "coming clean" to Mom and Dad.

Lastly, you ask "How do I prepare myself emotionally for what might be in my WF’s handwritten letter?". I don't think you can. You have to decide whether to read it or throw it away. If you're concerned, you could always sit on it for a few days/weeks and then decide. Just understand that this letter is likely designed to win you back in some fashion to minimize the damage she has experienced. It may contain details of her affair or not. I suspect it won't and will simply try to draw you back in. Do not take the bait. Going NC and moving on with your life is by far the best option. She is a serial cheater and if she ever does attempt to "fix herself", it will take years of incredibly hard work. She is a beautiful woman that has found life easy to navigate, so I don't believe she would ever do the necessary hard work to fix her character.

Keep you chin up. You're doing great!

HellFire posted 4/11/2021 16:35 PM

Don't read the letter. Burn it. Don't even open it. You are done. Reading it will only cause more pain.

She hasn't told her mom all the details. Her mom may think she has,but she hasn't. She sugar-coated it. Cheaters lie.

SnowToArmPits posted 4/11/2021 16:47 PM

Wow, your life must be 'fun' these days. You're living a soap opera right now.

Your WF's father - to an extent he's asking you to take responsibility for his low-character, dare I say mentally afflicted daughter. He and his wife have failed, why don't you have a go in fixing her and getting her to live right. Chasing a beautiful, promiscuous woman around, trying to get her to behave. That sounds like a good chance for an early grave for you.

Why would your WF come clean to her mother but not you... she sucks that's why. Yes there's embarrassment and maybe fear of destroying any chance with you. But seriously, she sucks. She'll cheat on you, sure. But come clean to you nah. I mean it's just you, why bother coming clean to you.

You're a good guy for meeting with the OBS. Well done meeting with her father. You're doing a way better than many poor guys who post here, who would still be wondering "is my fiance cheating on me?"

I would read your fiance's letter, just remember that a little dose of cynicism will go a long way in dealing with her.

Hey and props for "opprobrium"!

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 4:51 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

jb3199 posted 4/11/2021 17:35 PM

Wow. It’s like me and my pain around this are the deepest afterthought ever.

It is.....to them. Their needs(reputation, status in the community) are FAR more important than your hurt. From the little that you have described, the entire family sounds wayward in thought. At the bare minimum, apathetic.

nekonamida posted 4/11/2021 17:46 PM

Didn't work that way for his wife, who forgave him, then he cheated on her again.

This exactly what I was going to say. That's a big ask from someone whose wife was in your shoes and even he cheated again and for longer the second time. Plus those were only the ones he admitted to because your STBX may have known about them. Who knows how many happened after she had become an adult and was not around to witness them.

It's entirely up to you whether you want to read the letter or not. There is NOTHING wrong with you AT ALL for feeling 100% done. Actually, if you read around more, you will see that many BSes hit a wall of being done and no longer caring even if their WS starts to do everything right. They typically just take a little longer to get there.

siracha posted 4/11/2021 17:47 PM

Best course of action is to not read her letter . If you do read it remember that no matter what she wrote she told all your friends that she thinks you are a sick abusive man who made her cheat .
No man should ever stay with a woman who calls them emotionally abusive . If its true you are very bad for her ( i doubt this is the case) if its false then she is a huge threat to you. I think you should take her threat very seriously, do not engage at any level with her or her family .

src9043 posted 4/11/2021 17:56 PM

What a story. You truly have been through the wringer but have accounted for yourself quite admirably. It is fantastic that you do not feel much for her anymore. You know what she is all about. The fact that she continued her affair with the POS AP after she was busted is beyond comprehension. She is truly screwed up. Stay strong and do not buckle to her father, mother, or any other person's desire that the two of you get back together. If she is that attractive, she will find some other victim in a heartbeat. You will be history to her regardless of what she says now. Time to go NC with her. Go find a worthy partner in life. Do not rush things. You dodged a giant bullet. In that regard, you are so lucky.

For the record, I had zero desire to get back with my ex-WW. Nothing is wrong with you in feeling that way. I felt liberated when I busted her. Unfortunately for me, this was her second bite of the apple. All I had and still do have is contempt for that person.

[This message edited by src9043 at 6:05 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

Freeme posted 4/11/2021 18:19 PM

How do I prepare myself emotionally for what might be in my WF’s handwritten letter?
I think you know what's going to be in the letter. It's not going to be a timeline of all of her affairs or admitting to information you don't know. It's going to be pleading, promising and excuses. You know from your talk with her exfiancé that it will be full of compliments...how she can't believe she did this and how she want's a chance to prove herself. You know from your talk with her last fiance that a second chance only leads to a third chance. I'm not worried about you falling for any of it. I'm more worried you will strain something rolling your eyes.
The problem is that she's only wanting this since you outed her affair to the wedding party. How nice would it be if you forgave her? That would mean that they had to forgive her too.
Her family folded to her whim fairly quickly.
It's interesting that her friends were not as forgiving... maybe they have seen/sensed this before?

I kind of want you to read the letter. It's selfish of me but I don't know how she is going to spin the second "weekend" with OM and her telling the wedding party that you were mentally abusive to her.
How can she explain away that she continued her affair with the married man of a friend? Knowing that the OBS had forgiven him and that they were in the process of working on their marriage. That the OM has young kids...The OBS was a friend of hers? I'd like to know how she explains this.

After this letter you're going to have to go NC and start blocking her. You don't need the anxiety of more contact when you know you are not going to get back together.

Did you ever get your ring back?

You've done well keep it up.

I keep wondering about the answers:
1. Did XFIL promise his wife never to cheat again after the first time? Did XF promise her past boyfriends never to cheat again? How could either of them expect you to believe that this wouldn't keep happening?

2. If XFIL's cheating had happened during the engagement would (XMIL) have gone through with the wedding?

[This message edited by Freeme at 2:06 PM, April 23rd (Friday)]

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