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BluerThanBlue posted 2/22/2021 08:16 AM

Men who experience the deep physical and emotional connection you’re describing don’t take years to introduce their girlfriends to their friends, don’t need to be prodded into spending time with their girlfriends, look forward to celebrating holidays with them, and they sure as hell don’t regift sex toys.

The fact that you think this is “fairy tale” thinking is really sad and disappointing. It shows how little you think of yourself that you will try to dress up the bare minimum of effort as grand romantic gestures. You are willing to make excuses for him and choke down all the disrespect he throws at you because you’re completely besotted with him and won’t tolerate the idea of life without him.

He probably knows he’s not a catch. He gets by in life by being a bullshit artist who is (judging by your posts) great in the sack. You probably ascribe a lot of qualities he doesn’t actually possess because you’re seeing him through a lens of infatuation. It’s very likely that other women he dated in the past or was attempting to pursue while with you saw through his charade, so he knows that you’re the best thing that he has going for him... for now.

So enjoy what you’re getting out of this relationship while you can because as soon as he thinks he can do better— or that he’s extracted as much benefit for himself as he can from the relationship— he’ll be gone. In the mean time, he has learned he needs to be more discrete about what he does on the side.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:23 AM, February 22nd (Monday)]

nekonamida posted 2/22/2021 10:00 AM

But I'm not one to hold a grudge or harp on things over and over. He knows how I felt about it.

It's not about holding a grudge. It's about listening when he tells you who he is. If you want to be with the guy who jerks you around like this, capitalizes on your generosity, and re-gifts you a sex toy from a previous lover, more power to you but the rest of us find that rightfully horrifying. We've all dated many years, dated many people, and some of us are in successful long term marriages (with or without infidelity) and I think you're the only one dealing with a man who thought that was appropriate. He's THAT guy. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and right now is past behavior is down right unacceptable.

No relationship is perfect and prince charming only exists in fairy tales. As we all know relationships take work and both of us have taken strides to solidify our future together. The fact that we've made it this far after so many bumps and turns in the road is a testament to our lasting bond, connection and chemistry.

This doesn't work how you think it does. Relationships aren't linear. You don't overcome an obstacle and then you're better and will never see it again. It's actually the opposite. The selfishness, the cluelessness, the lack of consideration, the secret keeping, all of that will come back and bite you again one day. That means that because you've had so many bumps in the road, your future road will be just as bumpy and I don't see how either of you or doing what it takes to smooth it out outside of hoping it will get better on its own after airing your frustrations.

You can't just decide everything is good and expect things to be different. Your BF needs to actually understand what he did wrong, examine why he thought it was a good idea in the first place, and change into someone who would never do something like that again. You don't describe any of that happening. All you describe is you reacting to the bad behavior and him acknowledging it. If things were that easy, if spouses/partners with bad and selfish behavior just needed to be told to stop or see that we were upset by it, none of us would be here. None of us would be struggling. None of us would go through R and have a new DDay. Time and time again, it does. not. work!

Yes, relationships are work which is why it alarms me that you seem to be the only one working at it while he coasts along and gives you the absolute bare minimum necessary to not upset you. And I'll also tell you - a healthy relationship does feel easy at times. A healthy relationship doesn't have, "Well I WISH he would but..." like yours did when you weren't "exclusive" and like how it does now with how you want to take things to the next level like moving in and he is in no hurry to figure that out with you. That's not going to be enough for this to work out long term especially after the unstable and bumpy history you've had.

Believe me both of us over the years have tried to stay away from each other but for whatever reason the universe keeps bringing us and keeping us together.

Really? What's the longest time you've gone NC with him? Why didn't you block his number after the boat/truck fiasco and why did you keep talking to him? Because from your account, it doesn't sound like you've tried very hard. It sounds like you've been open to responding when he reaches out or have initiated contact yourself. It's actually very easy to stay away from someone if you block their number and stop going to places where you know they might be. And it's easy to avoid them the handful of times you've seen them. I haven't spoken to my XWBF in 7 years and I've seen him once in that time despite us living within 15 miles of each other for the majority of it. It's not hard if you want to do it and it's just as easy to re-connect with someone if you're leaving the door wide open for them.

newlife03 posted 2/22/2021 10:20 AM

We celebrate 4 years in June.

Actually, the first time he's showed any real interest was at Christmas, correct? That would be your first real moment to celebrate. Up until then he was using you and on dating sites. Maybe there was no OW but the fact that he was on those sites showed disrespect for the relationship you thought you had.

So enjoy what you’re getting out of this relationship while you can because as soon as he thinks he can do better— or that he’s extracted as much benefit for himself as he can from the relationship— he’ll be gone. In the mean time, he has learned he needs to be more discrete about what he does on the side.

I'm sorry because I agree with the above statement by BluerThanBlue. We will be here when it happens.

FannyandCat posted 2/22/2021 10:35 AM

The longest we've been NC with each other was 8 months. We broke up in February 2018 and reconnected in October 2018. There have been other blips of 3 weeks or so.

His current circumstances doesn't make him much of a catch but unlike some new girl he can bullshit I have a lot of seniority here as I've known him going on five years. I can usually see through his bullshit and not afraid to call him on it.

And believe me, I don't believe in fairy tales and don't put my relationship with him in that category at all. I don't think we're a fairy tale...in fact we're much more like a bad Lifetime movie. But we make each other laugh, we get along and we talk about things no one else would dare talk about openly. I guess you can call it a mutual understanding of each other. He was married before and that story is a bad Lifetime movie as well so I guess I lend some credence to him being cautious about romantic relationships going forward. And lets face it - everyone is different and no one moves at the same pace.

I think introducing me to his family and friends was a big step. I think him finally acknowledging me as his girlfriend was a big step. I think of celebrating Christmas with his family and getting together for Valentine's Day was a big step. And yeah it took three years for all of that to happen but in the end it was worth the wait - at least it was to me. All good things come to those that wait. The next step is overnights - we've spent a few nights together but starting in May we can start having sleepover with no issues. There's a morality clause in his divorce decree that states:

1. He has to write an email to himself when he starts a committed relationship.
2. Three months after writing that email he can introduce me to his child.
3. One year after that email is written we can have overnights.

And while we've been dating MUCH longer than that he wrote the email in May 2020. Again, that was another big step.

My only real beef with him is I don't spend as much time as I'd like and he doesn't like to emotionally express himself. We see each other about 2-3 times a week - one of those days always on one day of the weekend. Curious how I can approach the subject with him - any suggestions?

HellFire posted 2/22/2021 10:40 AM

He writes an email to himself?

That's odd.

Have you seen the divorce papers?

Have you met his child?

How long has he been divorced?

Bigger posted 2/22/2021 10:43 AM

Have you asked his ex why they divorced?

FannyandCat posted 2/22/2021 11:18 AM

Yes I've seen the divorce papers and read the morality clause.

Yes I've met his child.

Morality clauses are more common in divorce decrees than you think. Google search it and there's scads of information.

He's been divorced for 2.5 years. Separated since 2017. We had our first kiss not too long after they separated and she moved out of the house. Before that we were friends and before that we hated each other. We met in 2016 and he was just some guy at work I fought with about - well just about everything. In March, 2017 we became friends and it was right around that time he and his wife separated. Cue first kiss in June, 2017. We had a falling out in February 2018 and didn't talk for 8 months. He reached out in October 2018 asking for a second chance - his divorce was final shortly before that.

And I know why they divorced - they hated each other. No communication. No love. They stayed together for the child, which we all know isn't a reason to stay together. Bigger - I would never contact his ex-wife. She's of no concern. Think about it with the tables turned - I wouldn't want my boyfriend contacting my ex-husband about ANYTHING.

HellFire posted 2/22/2021 11:28 AM

Were you friends with his wife,prior to the separation?

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:29 AM, February 22nd (Monday)]

FannyandCat posted 2/22/2021 12:36 PM

No HellFire, I wasn't. I've actually never met her face to face. She called me once when I sent a text to the child wishing a happy birthday and she called wanting to know who I was. When I introduced myself she stated, "Oh, I know you - you're seeing "insert the man's name". So she knows I exist and she knows I'm dating the man. If you think about it that's sort of a big step too.

BluerThanBlue posted 2/22/2021 12:45 PM

His current circumstances doesn't make him much of a catch but unlike some new girl he can bullshit I have a lot of seniority here as I've known him going on five years. I can usually see through his bullshit and not afraid to call him on it.

No, all your "seniority" means is that you're so accustomed to his bullshit that you no longer smell it... like someone who has been living in a barn for too long. Who cares if you call him out on it? He knows that the worst that can happen is that you will yell at him, may be give him the cold shoulder for a brief period of time, but you won't actually leave him.

He's been divorced for 2.5 years. Separated since 2017. We had our first kiss not too long after they separated and she moved out of the house. Before that we were friends and before that we hated each other.

It's a shame you didn't trust your first impression of him because it appears to have been correct. And just as I suspected, he's a monkey-brancher... won't let go of one woman until he's able to get a firm grip on the next one.

Lastly, morality clauses such as the one you describe are only typical in cases that involve infidelity, which is what brought you to us in the first place. If his ex felt the need to have one in the agreement, she probably had a reason.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 6:05 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]

HellFire posted 2/22/2021 12:51 PM

We had our first kiss not too long after they separated and she moved out of the house.


we became friends and it was right around that time he and his wife separated.

And I know why they divorced - they hated each other. No communication. No love. They stayed together for the child, which we all know isn't a reason to stay together.


So they still lived in the same house,then he started his thing with you,and his wife moved out shortly afterwards.


Married men,who cheat on their wives, typically tell this story to their OW. That they aren't really married anymore, they're just together for the kids.

Your thing with him started prior to his physical separation.

That his wife moved out shortly after he was with you started, is very telling. Add in the morality clause, and it seems rather obvious his wife found out he was cheating,and left him. Morality clauses are common,yes, typically when one of the spouses has proven to be immoral. Like a man who has an affair. And when the faithful spouse doesn't want the other woman introduced to her children shortly after the separation.


You are putting an awful lot of trust, on the word of a man who has proven to be untrustworthy.
If he cheats with you,he will cheat on you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:53 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]

FannyandCat posted 2/22/2021 13:08 PM

No HellFire...please reread...

We were friends, he separated from his wife and she moved out of the house. Three months later we had our first kiss. She wasn't living in the house when that kiss happened. Physical separation had definitely happened. As his friend I was a witness to the demise of his marriage and when she moved out he gleefully told me about it. It was a marriage that needed to end years before it actually did.

The morality clause was because of the child, not because of infidelity. Neither one wanted to introduce the kid to a revolving door of lovers. It's truly in the best interest of the child to only be introduced to girlfriends/boyfriends when it's serious. The ex-wife also has to abide to the same rules he does.

I don't think either of us expected to form feelings for each other. It just sort of...happened. Once we stopped fighting and got to know each other we realized we actually enjoyed each other's company.

Charity411 posted 2/22/2021 14:18 PM

Fanny, I had a morality clause in my divorce decree. I agree that they are fairly common, but I also agree they are typically used when a divorce is the result of infidelity. Their marriage may have been terrible and therefore the reason for the divorce. We don't really know that, and in fairness, neither do you. You only have his side of it.

The other thing about that clause being the reason he doesn't stay over night that strikes me as odd, is that I would assume he shares custody of his daughter with his ex-wife. If he does, there would be no reason why he couldn't stay overnight with you on nights he doesn't have her. Those clauses are for the protection of the child, not to babysit the parent.

There is something else that struck me about this update post. You made sure to address the fact that there was no OW. I remembered from your original post last year that you shared a letter you were going to give to him. In it you called him on the fact that he did intend to date, and that he was going to meet a woman at a particular restaurant, but she stood him up. And you also in that letter questioned his repeated visits to a house on a particular street at that time, which was weeks after you bought him the boat and truck. That street, and that restaurant are only 3 minutes apart. That would raise red flags for me.

I don't think he's credible. I too think he's a branch swinger. And keep in mind, I'm only basing this on what you yourself are telling us. You were certain he was cheating back then, which was why you planted a GPS in the truck and hired a PI. It is worrisome that it basically took a Christmas gift, a Valentine's Day card and him finally saying you are his girlfriend to completely convince you otherwise. I can't help but wonder if the OW found out about you and called it off.

The1stWife posted 2/22/2021 14:34 PM

When I introduced myself she stated, "Oh, I know you - you're seeing "insert the man's name". So she knows I exist and she knows I'm dating the man. If you think about it that's sort of a big step too.

So his XW knew who you were (after the D).

What is the big step here - she (the XW) may have known of you prior to the D as you were working with Mr Wonderful.

Maybe she didn’t say anything more b/c she just doesn’t care about her XH any longer. And she’s not inserting herself in his life.

I don’t think you can project it’s anything more. No big step. Sorry you see it differently.

Belle25 posted 2/22/2021 14:53 PM

So he wrote the email to himself about being in a committed relationship in May 2020, but then was on dating sites in May 2020 as well as August 2020? That's not being in a committed relationship. That email is null and void.

I have to agree with all the others, but you won't see it. So, see you in a few months.

grubs posted 2/22/2021 15:05 PM

I would not get into flipping with him. To be successful at that is all about getting in and out fast. Getting stuck with an unsold property for months will destroy any profit you might make.
I have a friend that has been chasing the get rich schemes since we were teens. He did the flipping thing for a while. It was easy for him as he already had the construction and insurance repair experience. It still didn't end well. It's a full time job for someone who is very detailed and organized. Your friend sounds much like my friend. Big on dreams but poor on the execution.
I just read your original post. You should re-read it and think through what has really changed. I think he's selfish and only does what the minimum to keep what you provide available. That you've been holding him to a higher standard, doesn't mean he's more invested.

You deserve better.

BluerThanBlue posted 2/22/2021 16:08 PM

He was confiding in his marital problems with a female friend/coworkers while still married. He “gleefully” announced his divorce to you, and before his wife’s spot in his bed is even cold, you’re in it.

He asked you for loans on his vehicles before he even acknowledged your existence to anyone close to him. He’s on dating sites while he’s supposedly committed to you.

Seriously, none of this is shady to you?

nekonamida posted 2/22/2021 16:56 PM

My only real beef with him is I don't spend as much time as I'd like and he doesn't like to emotionally express himself. We see each other about 2-3 times a week - one of those days always on one day of the weekend. Curious how I can approach the subject with him - any suggestions?

Nope. I really don't. The way I see it is that you are far more invested than he is in the relationship. My WXBF was the exact same way - only wanted to meet up a couple days a week and very guarded with his emotions. Well, I don't really need to tell you how well that worked out but I will say that the lack of emotional expression is a fundamental incompatibility that he might be able to change through therapy if he's open to the idea. I have a hard time imagining he would be though given he keeps you at arm length in every other way too.

FannyandCat posted 2/22/2021 20:16 PM

He just left...

And we’re going out tomorrow.

I caught him on the dating site May 1st. Confronted him immediately and he promised to delete it. He did.

Then the gps fiasco happened in July and things were rocky to say the least. I caught him again on dating sites (yes plural) on August 7th. When confronted he said he wasn’t sure about us because the gps really fucked with his head.

The PI found nothing and said he didn’t see him or catch him with another woman.

The house he went to that I found out via gps...he owned up to going but it wasn’t to see a woman but an old man. I chalk up a lot of my behavior to abject paranoia.

Starting around Labor Day things started to smooth out. I went to his family’s birthday party for him in October, spent election night with his family and friends and spent Christmas morning with his family. I’ve also attended two other family birthday celebrations with him, his family and friends.

We talked about living together tonight and it’s not a matter of if but when. And we talk...about nothing and everything. We talk all day during the work day and if we’re not seeing each other we text at night. I just can’t explain it...he’s my person and he shows his love for me more in actions than words. For example...

My dream car is a Jeep Wrangler...specifically a cj5. I currently drive a brand new BMW M4 that is 444 hp of awesomeness but the dream is to drive without doors. Well the man had been (unbeknownst to me) searching the internet for one and found it...it’s literally perfect. Four speed, mint condition, lifted with sick ass wheels. He was the middleman with the seller and I ended up buying it. Since then he’s bought me a bikini top and seat adjuster for it and keeps throwing more accessories at me he’s found on Amazon. Today he showed up at my door with the seat adjuster..we pick it up this week.

Will our future be nothing but sunshine and daisies? No. But do we belong together? Yes.

[This message edited by FannyandCat at 8:22 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]

BluerThanBlue posted 2/23/2021 07:07 AM

😂

He did an Internet search for a fairly common vehicle that you then purchased with your own money. What a prince!

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:09 AM, February 23rd (Tuesday)]

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