SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I agree with everybody else that snapchat has to go like NOW. She can use another messenger app that saves texts/pictures.

I would look into transferring your kids out of school so you limit contact with the other couple. Do not allow any sleep over/playdates.

What is going on with the other OBS is she suffering the same thing as you or did she encourage the solo affair between her husband and your wife?

Does your wife still have contact with other OBS or OM at school?

Also it has been a week so don't feel like we are rushing you. Please look at some of the WS posts also reconciliations posts just to get a feel of what you should expect from a remorseful WS, and what reconciliation looks like down the line.

Keep asking yourself over the days.

"What has my wife done to assure me that she is a safe partner?"

[This message edited by BigNoob at 2:46 AM, November 12th (Thursday)]

One of the consequences of your wife’s actions is that the kids will need to not be friends with those kids anymore. R isn’t possible without complete absolute guaranteed NC.

It will suck for your kids but you were not the only one that your wife hurt. She cared more about herself than her kids though, it’s sad...but it happens

Greenman,

So sorry you have been betrayed by all 3 of them, it’s more than most people could cope with.

Do you really think your WW will be content with going back to a ‘vanilla’ lifestyle after living that life?

survrus

Although I don't think I could get into swinging I feel really bad for you have three people betray you. It sounds more like when a groups of friends ostracizes you.

This.

This would absolutely be humiliating. I would kick a wife out just for doing this to me.

I completely get why the kissing bothers him more than other acts, it so intimate it's where physical and emotional love become one.

It's also no longer exclusive to BH and WW within their marriage.

I dunno survrus… once I watch my wife go down on another guy, her kisses wouldn't mean much after. I know where that mouth has been. She knows where mine has been. That's why I could never swing.

[This message edited by Westway at 9:33 AM, November 12th (Thursday)]

BigBlueEyes

Do you really think your WW will be content with going back to a ‘vanilla’ lifestyle after living that life?

There's no way. Just like my WW. There is no way my WW could ever settle down for one man again.

Greenman's wife will most likely never be satisfied with just him again. She has tasted the forbidden fruit and likes it too much now.

I think your wife needs to see a therapist specialized in infidelity as well as a sex therapist. You are only a week in so you need more time to process/observe what your wife is doing to try and save the marriage. Stay vigilant.

1. 2 Time lines one rated PG13 other rated R. (Read rated R when you are mentally prepared.) Don't believe "i cant remember"

2. Family tracking app.

3. Therapists. 1 infidelity specialist and 1 sexual therapist.

4. Get your ducks in order. Speak to an attorney.

5. NC even when picking up/dropping off your kids.

6. No messaging apps that automatically delete messages.

7. Communicate with OBs (if she really did not know about the affair.questionable.)

8. Open electronics, social media, email passwords. Should be no passwords at all if she is really trying to save the marriage.

Also i noted in your previous response where the kids were staying with your wife when you kicked her out. I would sit them down and give them a very watered down version "mommy hurt daddy really badly." or something along that line.

you and your WW must go full NC with the OM and the OMW.

this means 100% NC, no to hanging out with the OM and the

OMW if they will be there as part of your social circle.

breaking NC will cause the affair to restart. sex creates

addictive brain chemistry. your WW seeing OM will cause

her to grave sex with the OM. as with any addict your WW

will then need to feed here addiction for the OM.

as you witnessed, the OM rocked her world as never before.

there must be total NC.

also there is no way your WW can ever have snapchat again.

Could just be my personal bias but i have only seen happy stable open marriages in cases where both people were clear on who they were to start with .

When people have been monogamous for 10-20 years and suddenly think they need to spice things up that often means one partner has a foot out the door

When people have been monogamous for 10-20 years and suddenly think they need to spice things up that often means one partner has a foot out the door

This...

Greenman’s wife will most likely never be satisfied with just him again. She has tasted the forbidden fruit and likes it too much now.

Exactly what I was thinking,

I’m again sorry for this shit sandwich you have been dealt with,

Keep posting for support, there really is some great people here that can hopefully guide you on the right path.

Take care of you at the moment, it’s still very early for any long term plans.

Westway said:

This is above my pay grade brother. I have no advice on how you can pull this plane out of the nosedive it's in.

Westway can be very eloquent at times. I am in the same boat. I have zero experience with (personally) enduring an "open relationship." I had my wife actually state that she "felt like she was in one" as one of her excuses for cheating on me, but that's not the same deal if you never tell your partner, so it doesn't count.

I can only tell you this much. I used to hang out with a crowd of (let's call them) "entertainers" who lived a very nomadic lifestyle, as performers in fairs and such-- when I was in my early 20s. There were many married couples in this group, and almost all of them were in some form of non-exclusive relationship ALONG with being married.. what we call "poly" or "Open" relationships. Basically cheating on each other with informed consent. I had at the time a conventional (by the standards of this group) relationship with ONE girlfriend and that's the way I wanted it to be. She ended up falling in love with a juggler, but that's besides the point. I do know that three couples we were friends with all were in this kind of open swinging thing. ALL THREE made up artificial rules for managing the open relationship-- Basically Open communication at all times, no feelings, respect your partner, equal time for each other, leave "open" status when one is uncomfortable. All THREE of those couples ended up in a situation that was eerily similar to your story. One partner doesn't respect the artificial boundaries, sneaks off, there's an inequity, resentment, and eventually, a divorce. It sucks all round.

I wish you luck in fixing this, but I'll be honest... I don't share the enthusiasm of some of the eternal optimists on this board about this specific kind of situation. This is maybe my own somewhat bitter (later) experience reflecting bias here, but I think my opinion and observations are still valid. Do you really think she wants to be with just you now? How convinced are you if you have to monitor her this closely.

Don't get me wrong. ANY-thing can be forgiven. It's all a matter of what you personally will accept, and how you can live with it years down the road. I wish you luck and send you strength and decisiveness, but I personally don't have a hell of a lot to offer in terms of advice on this one.

She won’t admit it to me but the sex with him was way better from a pure sex/orgasm experience than anything I have given her.(Ive seen it first hand).

Have you thought about how you intend to get past this? For yourself especially but sooner or later she will stray again to get the "better sex." She already gave up you, the kids and the marriage to have this other man outside the agreed upon arrangements.

I’ve asked if I will be able to fulfill her sexual needs for the rest of our life and she assures me I can.

You wife will say and do whatever she has to for the moment she is in survival mode. She has no interest in losing the stability you provide while enjoying the excitement with the other man. Rest assured when she feels you are complacent she will go to him again. Cheater get better at hiding their affairs.

It would be best for you to speak with a lawyer and file for divorce. You can choose to halt the process if you feel your wayward wife has made progress and you believe she is sincere. If you choose to rugseeep her behavior without any consequences you will unfortunately find this experience will repeat.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 5:27 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

She won’t admit it to me but the sex with him was way better from a pure sex/orgasm experience than anything I have given her.(Ive seen it first hand).

Did you give her also Love during sex? Just food for thought....

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 12:57 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

GM,

You wrote, She won’t admit it to me but the sex with him was way better from a pure sex/orgasm experience than anything I have given her.(Ive seen it first hand). I’ve asked if I will be able to fulfill her sexual needs for the rest of our life and she assures me I can.

This theme is heard over and over again with BHs, you at least know the truth.

Most WWs will minimize the orgasmic level, number/intensity/wetness and type of sex acts which lead to orgasm.

WWs also tend to minimize how attracted they were/are to the OM, particularly when they are more of a natural match.

So you have a long term question as well how will you feel in 3, 5, 10 and 20 years and how will she feel about you.

I tried for the first 20 years of my marriage to get back my Ws attraction for me, had kids, made money, treated her well. I thought I could love her enough that she might regain her passion for me, but it never did. For about 10 years after that she has buried herself into religion although arguably that's a kind of affair too and an easy way to forgiveness and avoidance.

Have your WW write out a timeline for her affair with details, then do yourself a favor and have WW take a polygraph.

Perhaps a year or more from now have her take a polygraph about her feelings towards you. You don't want to be the guy whos' wife resents him for the rest of her life because you took away her soul mate.

GM,

For Gods sake move away, you are living nears the OM/OW and you will have to endure endless triggers and your WW will see the OM countless times. I trigger every time I drive past OM3 neighborhood and he's dead, though his daughter still lives there.

Westway,

You wrote, I dunno survrus… once I watch my wife go down on another guy, her kisses wouldn't mean much after. I know where that mouth has been. She knows where mine has been. That's why I could never swing.

Oddly my impression of your WW is that she never kissed those guys but just had loveless sex with them.

But yes it would be difficult, I was just making a statement about which acts are more emotionally difficult than others. I think my W kissed a 23 year old girl at the church she used to go to, that is much worse to me than intercourse.

No offense but this marriage is a train wreck. She fucks your friend for five years and he is better in bed and you are surprised that she keeps fucking him. But now she’s just fine that she’s not fucking him? Cuz, like she promised.

You need a massive do over. And I strongly suggest you start life without this woman. Doesn’t matter who started it or whose idea it was or who liked it more. And there are photos and videos out there?

Unless you want to live in misery until the inevitable happens and she gets caught again, you might as well cut out all the middle stuff and get divorced now.

Try to be in a normal life. Your kids deserve normal. Surely you don’t think they will never find out? Ever?

Out of curiosity... all the people here saying that once she has "tasted the forbidden fruit" she'll never be happy with just one person again... I assume all of you are divorced and haven't reconciled, right?

I also always find it funny when people say they could never kiss their spouse knowing where their mouth has been. Unless your spouse was a virgin, I'd assume their mouth had been in some pretty interesting places before they were with you. If that's the deciding factor in reconciliation, I find that rather odd.

That no kissing rule in swinging is so common and I've never understood why people think it will work. To me, it always speaks of artificial protectionism and people who haven't worked through their own personal issues enough to be comfortable with the openness and honesty and vulnerability that is required in an open or poly relationship. I tend to believe that it's a big warning flag of problems ahead- of people who are going to have marital issues in the future one way or the other. I do not think I have ever seen a relationship with those kind of stilted rules succeed- either the couple learns that they need to make some changes or else they break up for one reason or another. I suspect most of the time, it's a relationship foundational issue that needs to be dealt with and the specifics aren't really that important.

I would look for a kink aware counselor to help you both through this, because even though you are planning never to swing again, you still need someone with the background of swinging to help you through the nuances, in my opinion. Hers and yours issues and whys aren't going to be the same as in a typical affair situation.

Unless your spouse was a virgin, I'd assume their mouth had been in some pretty interesting places before they were with you. If that's the deciding factor in reconciliation, I find that rather odd.

Huge difference between before you are married, and after.

Its not surprising that you find it odd, considering your lifestyle.

I also always find it funny when people say....

This statement shows an appalling lack of empathy for a betrayed spouse.

I also always find it funny when people say they could never kiss their spouse knowing where their mouth has been. Unless your spouse was a virgin, I'd assume their mouth had been in some pretty interesting places before they were with you. If that's the deciding factor in reconciliation, I find that rather odd.

Let's see a show of hands at how many people are surprised by this post.

[counting...]

That's a whopping zero.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 5:03 AM, November 15th (Sunday)]

There was a thread in general about past sexual history influencing your choice of partner (can’t remember the exact title). Some posters had pretty wild younger years and still are faithful when they gotten married.

I don’t see why, after experiencing anything else than monogamy, one cannot be monogamous.

Miss Greenman is a wayward for sure. This story is one of infidelity and the usual advice applies. You want to R.

What are your conditions and ground rules for you to consider R? You said there’s NC and IC. Have you asked for a timeline?

You need to talk to her and have her help you with your triggers. Text messaging notifications triggers you. She will need to fix this. No more snapchat. You get all her passwords and you can check whenever you want.

Because of this:

I don’t know if I’ll ever trust her again.

She will need to build trust again and she needs to realize it can take 3-5 years.

She needs to take responsibility of her actions. It was NOT madness, it was her decisions to cheat. She chose to cheat, to hurt you and your family. She must own it.