SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You're on the right track. I don't know is never acceptable answer to anything. She needs to know that you can ask these same questions over and over for years and she will need to answer them as many times as you need to ask. As you have realized,it's more like she doesn't want to know because then she has to face her shame. She can't hide the real her anymore and you're stuck deciding if you want to be with this person that isn't who you thought she was. She knows that and will stay in self preservation mode if she's allowed.

As others have said, make her write everything down. It helps when you go over it so there is no "that's not what I meant" and it helps her to have to see on writing what she's done and why.

Take your time deciding of course but you just don't want to get stuck feeling obligated to try if she does everything you ask. All that matters is what you want to do and you can change your mind anytime.

freefaller,

I will see if I can find a free PDF of that article. I will drop Dr. Ortman an email at his institution and inquire.

Life Pro Tip. If you ever run across peer reviewed, published research, and the journal want to charge you for access?

Email the author(s) of the study - 99% of the time they will be delighted to send it to you free of charge - especially if there are affiliated with a university.

Her "we never have sex" comment may have just been part of the bullshit that cheaters say. She was trying to make him feel like the hero who will free her from her sexless life. Probably lied to him about other things too, in addition to lying to you.

The STD test she will probably expect if she has been paying attention, the DNA test will let her know how little trust you have in her, and she may be shocked and say "how can you not trust me..."

My XW said a lot of stupid things too...

I like the way you have handled things freefall. Well thought out. Acted decisively. Allowing yourself to see the woods from the tree's.

Of course your probably collapsing inside, but like the duck, looking calm on the surface while paddling like crazy underneath.

Take as much time as you need. Whatever you decide, I can see that your final conclusion will be well processed, and thought through.

How was the weekend?

One day at a time

freefaller,

Cheaters rewrite history all the time to justify their actions.

A WW will get compliments, ego boost and what not from some OM. She falls in love. And THEN , all of the sudden, “the marriage is terrible”, “my husband doesn’t love me”, “there’s no sex”, “sex is bad”.

So....

1. It’s not true.

2. It’s very insulting and humiliating to you.

3. When you ask her about this, the “I don’t know” is not good enough.

“I don’t know” (IMHO) means “I don’t want to tell you”, or “I don’t want to admit I did something shitty”.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 5:07 AM, September 12th (Saturday)]

she was trying to justify the reason she was trying to arrange the hook-up to herself as well as ego-stroke AP.

A lot of truth here. The reason the marriage history gets re-written is to help justify the adultery. The cheater feels they are a good person therefore it isn't their fault for cheating. It must be the fault of the BS and the marriage.

“I don’t know” (IMHO) means “I don’t want to tell you”, or “I don’t want to admit I did something shitty”.

Agreed. Plus, I don't want to think about it and I don't want you to ask me anymore.

Dude:

This one hit me pretty hard.

Extended affair.

Enabled by friends

Your awkward in social situations with WW, AP and friend enablers

When AP is not available, her "go to"-- whether threat or otherwise --is to arrange a Tinder hookup with a Rando (i.e. not YOU)

YET, WW tells you that you/her marriage is the best thing that's ever happened to her.

It really seems like she shredded your humanity on multiple levels, for an extended period of time.

If all this makes sense, she legit has mountains to move to recreate anything authentic with you.

That description of your feelings during the gaslighting and when you discovered you had not lost your mind really hit home for me. I had the same sense of relief, rather than pain, initially after finding out. I , actually did a fist pump.

Here is my advice for what its worth.

If you don’t want to suffer in silence for the rest of your life, my advice is run away as fast and as far as you can from your W.

The wonderful memories you had with your W before the A will never be the same. They are lost forever.

It’s been 25 years since DD for me and I’m still tortured my the thought of my W giving her heart to another man. The affair only lasted 3 months but it hurts like hell. I choose to forgive my W and she has been ifully devoted to me still and very remorseful but it doesn’t lesson the pain of the past. If I had my time again, I would end it. It would have hurt fir a while but I would got on with my life.

At the end of the day it’s your life and your choice. My advice is - Choose wisely my friend.

Honestly, I'm awed at what Spaceghost did. For me, infidelity is a hard line. I didn't find out about my XWW's infidelity until after our divorce was final...she had sex with at least 10 different men in the 4 years we were married...and then monkey branched in with my then best friend, whom she cheated on for the entirety of their 10 year marriage. She THEN monkey branched on to another guy (he had more $$$ than her 2nd) and has cheated on him a couple of dozen times inn the 20 years they've been married.

Spaceghost’s legendary thread in SI.com

https://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=552588&AP=1&HL=

@redwing6

That topic filled up (got to 50 pages). Did it continue into another 50 pages?

I wish SI was easier to search, but I'm sure you know it's not. The thread just seemed to kind of die, but felt a little 'unfinished.'

A cleaner URL, btw, is:

https://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=552588

It was a fantastic read. Although it was heartbreaking, his perspective and actions made the most sense. It's sad moving on, but someone you loved, and who presumably loved you, doesn't just fall on a penis...oops. That decision would be a meaningful red line to me too.

RE thought process: She says she doesn't know why she said it, and that the last time we had sex, she loved it. I told her that's not an explanation, and I want her to tell me why she said it. She again said she didn't know, and I repeated that I wanted to know *WHY* she said it, and that it is something she needs to think long and hard about. The same applies to the photos. I need to know why, and being absent minded does not cut it. She agreed, and promised to work on it.

Your wayward wife knows exactly why she said what she said. Two options come to mind.

1)She meant it, spoke the truth. Just like the affair is conducted in secret, harsh truths are revealed/confessed in secret when the wayward is confident that their betrayed spouse will never hear/learn of it. If she is narcissistic the truth is very pliable in her hands and molded to suit needs as they arise. The photos were not meant for you to see. When waywards believe they operate in secret they are quite bold and confident. She did not consider for a moment that you would discover evidence of her affair.

2) She said what she said to build up the ego of the OM, flattery to get what she wanted. Either way it does nothing to help reconciliation. Either way she will continue to delay and obscure the truth as best she can.

She doesn't know. Actually she does know why she said what she said and why she did what she did for the photos. She knows confessing the truth will end any reconciliation effort. She promised to work on it. The only thing she is working on is whatever lies will seem plausible enough to placate you. There is no work to do with the truth, no preparation necessary.

You can continue to press for the truth if you choose. It will be a frustrating experience and you will have little truth to show for it. Your wife is sorry she has been caught. She is not sorry for what she did otherwise she would be much more transparent and willing to move mountains to save the marriage. She is in survival mode and only concerned with how she will come out of this situation intact. Your healing is of no concern to her.

Your energy would be put to better use on moving the divorce forward then trying to reconcile with a wayward wife who's only interest is in self preservation.

Have you ever said something and literally did not know why you said it?

There is always a reason you said something.

You say 'I don't know why I said it' when you don't want to say why you said it. It's as simple as that. It's a 'stalling' tactic to buy time to come up with a palatable answer, and only if pressed. But the 'palatable answer' is *not* why you said it. Oh, and there is always a chance that the question will be dropped.

[This message edited by justsayno at 1:25 AM, September 13th (Sunday)]

OK, let's all just relax a second here. I feel there is a bit of projection and and a few assumptions too many in these

replies.

***and yet another BS asking for people to STOP jumping to conclusions and making pronouncements/judgements that they have no proof of. Can we please, as Freefaller has asked, STOP projecting our own experiences and feelings about our own situations/WS onto Freefaller's situation/wife?

Freefaller, as others have said, please take what you need and leave the rest. Please know that the hearts of the majority of the members here are in the right place. They do truly want to help you. This kind of behavior has been an ongoing problem on this site. It is frustrating and irritating in the extreme to see the same posters make the same wild, unfounded accusations and illogical statements masked as truisms. It is sad that they are in a place where they cannot see that projecting their own pain and generalizations are not helpful to other BS, who come here to get logical, sound advice. In addition, it is not fair to insinuate that a BS is weak because they do not follow the path that some posters think they should.

Hang in there Freefaller! This is not an easy journey, either way it turns out.

I wish there was some kinder way to put this. Your “whys” are not getting you anywhere because you want an answer that will allow you to “fix” things so you can go back to the life you had before. That is not realistic. You know that. You also know why she did it.......because she wanted to. Some people are bored with safety and security. That’s why people ride roller coasters, jump out of planes, drive too fast etc etc etc.........and cheat. For those of us who don’t cheat it makes no sense. Why would you jeopardize your marriage for it? Evidently sneaking around gets their blood stirred. I don’t think cheaters love us the way we love them. It’s another stinking thing to accept.

I'm on a mission to understand for my own sake, not hers.

It's reasonable for you to want to understand her behaviour. Just a head's up, not every betrayed spouse gets a full explanation of why, what, where, etc. Sure try to get this, but don't put your head through a brick wall thinking if you demand harder and louder you'll get it.

Your wife may do you a solid and give you a full rendering of what happened and why. Particularly since you've put the fear of God into her about divorce.

She's an accomplished liar, you might get a sanitized, slimmed down version of what went on.

Best of luck. Sounds like you've a good sense of your self worth and how much nonsense you're willing to put up with going forward.

How are things going? I hope you are ok. What's the latest update?

You can continue to press for the truth if you choose. It will be a frustrating experience and you will have little truth to show for it. Your wife is sorry she has been caught. She is not sorry for what she did otherwise she would be much more transparent and willing to move mountains to save the marriage. She is in survival mode and only concerned with how she will come out of this situation intact. Your healing is of no concern to her.

This 👆🏼

A lot of us have been down the frustrating and fruitless path of seeking truth and transparency. We can tell you how it ends, which is with not much truth and transparency.

Ultimately you have to accept they did it, they did it because the saw an opportunity, they did because they wanted to, they did it actually thinking about the consequences and decided to do it anyway, when they did it they liked it and it felt good, they thought they could get away with it.

It’s not more complicated than that. FOO, the fog, unmet needs and the rest always come after as justifications.

Unless they are willing to move mountains they don’t have real remorse, and you don’t have much to work with. In which case being done is the best and fastest route to healing.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:02 AM, September 21st (Monday)]

Freefall

I think you really need to tackle the "sex" situation head on before any attempt is made to reconcile. It appears (according to your WW) that this whole affair /tender situation

was because she was "so horny". It should have been easier for her to have sex with you at home rather than to go through download and match on tinder all because she was "so horny".