"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Ginger12 posted 8/8/2020 03:56 AM

OMG you word for word can describe how I feel. Yes it does feel like a rush when I do hear from him and I feel I can calm down. I try my best to not do anything to tick him off. When I do end up texting to much or pushing with question he will go on his tangent that we are done, over, and he has moved on and I need to as well. I then ended up apologizing like a crazy person and he ghosts for awhile then it starts all over again. I feel I just want some ounce of how he is now treating her. It messes with my head that if he has moved on and is so happy why does he keep coming back to me. The OW is older than him in her mid 40’s and has never really had a long term boyfriend so I would think she would be pushing marriage after 5 years.

Thank you so much for talking to me. I feel like you should be my therapist lol.

OwningItNow posted 8/8/2020 06:49 AM

I really, really feel for you, Ginger, because I know it's easy for anyone and everyone to easily advise, "What the hell are you doing? Just leave him!" But nobody traps themselves in this cycle on purpose. If you had the mental and emotional strength to leave him and end the cycle, I know you would. There are many of us here that understand the cycle of abuse and codependency, and we know that you are suffering in it, just suffering all the time. I remember the pain too clearly.

So this is the problem, that you feel 100% trapped in something that is torturing you. This is the worst, most hopeless feeling. I know exactly how drug addicts must feel as they try to quit and fail and go back to using, hating themselves even more for being weak, because wanting to get out of a hurtful situation but failing brings on such hopelessness. It brings on such darkness inside us. How are you coping with these really sad feelings, Ginger? I am oldish now (50, lol) but as I look back, I think of these days as some of my darkest, most desperate days. The first thing you must, must know is that you can break this cycle. I did it, and lots of other people here have done it. You need to know that better days are ahead.

IC is the most important piece here. My IC was my support system. Most of us get into this abusive loop because we are replicating our first family issues. But if our first family is screwed up, they won't be a good source of solid support when we are struggling to leave the new situation. Ugh!!!! IC to the rescue. My ICs were like pseudo parents who repeatedly told me that my feelings were valid and my actions rational. You need a good IC to support your healthy decisions as you make changes in life that will feel uncertain and scary. That's number one.

You also need a larger group of people who have gone through this. AlAnon meetings and CoD groups are around. If you are in a more populated area, you should look for a group. Hearing stories of strength is so important. I felt very alone in my attraction to drama, in my need to keep a loser close to me. Nobody wanted to hear it anymore, and their advice was so simplified--leave him--that it wasn't much use. You need more people that understand you.

Once you feel like you have good people in your corner, I think you will feel stronger. The other work you could be doing simultaneously is self-soothing. What do you do to calm your anxiety? What do you do that helps besides contacting the ex? Do you have a bag of tricks to feel good when you haven't heard from him?

With some good people and tools, I think you can make progress on getting control over your own life. I'm not going to say you have to cut him off because I'm not sure you are able right now, but are you ready to put tools into place? Then IC, support group in area, create self-soothing bag of tricks. These would be great steps, Ginger. ((((Ginger12))))

As for him, he may or may not pursue marrying her, but he obviously likes having multiple partners for his ego. What is your plan if he does move to divorce? Will you be ok?

Ginger12 posted 8/8/2020 10:31 AM

You hit it right on the head of how I feel. No one understands and I even think my time in IC and group threapy did not understand cause they just focused on the leaving. Most my first family does not understand at all and my dads whole side off the family and my brother will not talk to me cause I won’t file and take him for everything he is worth. My parents have been divorced for over 30 years and still can not be in the same room together. They both have been remarried for over 20 years. I’m way to kind of a person and I never want the relationship my parents have in divorce because it was awful as a child.

I have no idea if I will be ok if he marries her or no. Since my family sucks his family is really the only true family I have had in my life. My MIL is one of my best friends. I hate to think of my kids around her cause I feel she does not want to be involved. They have been together for 5 yrs and I feel she would have asked to be around them if this is the love of your life. I do have outlets to self soothe but being in lock down with not a lot of places to go anymore has made some of this worse again. I honestly don’t know if it is wanting to feel wanted when he does pay attention and trying to not let her truly have him or if I do love him is what keeps me stuck.

OwningItNow posted 8/8/2020 23:17 PM

Ginger, if you are a very kind soul (and you seem like it) and if you were hurt, scared, and upset by the drama between your parents, then you are going to be very uncomfortable hating your ex. It won't stick. Hating him will go against everything that makes you feel good about yourself. It's ok to change what you say about him in your head to something like, "I love him in spite of everything, but he is not good for me. He does not bring peace to my life." For me, because I am such a people pleaser, I could not move away from my exes in hate. I just couldn't do it. I am still on good terms with all of my exes and with most anyone I've ever known. Hate is reserved for only a few people in the course of my life, and I never loved them. But you simply need to allow yourself to hold both feelings of loving him but needing to get away simultaneously. "I love him and don't want to hurt him, but I have to protect me." Just try to talk to yourself and get used to holding both of these opposite ideas together. "It's ok to love him, but that doesn't mean I should stick around and accept this. I must take care of me."

I have had some very patient ICs. They hated hearing about my awful boyfriends, and I know they really wanted to say, "Just leave him." But they knew that there were too many scary feelings holding me in my place. They respected the fact that I was going to need to unpack all these layers of fear to get to the part of me that would actually be able to stick to NC. (My H was different because I did not sense that my IC wanted me to leave him.)

I did not have the element of competition that you feel, that element of needing to win. My very worst, darkest relationship with a diagnosed psychopath (he's now on permanent disability due to his mental health issues) did involve cheating, but I honestly didn't care much about the OW. I always felt like she was not my problem because he treated her, his side piece, far worse than me. I knew that he was my problem, that my wanting to be with such an unstable and dangerous person was my problem. I knew that he would hit me if I stayed with him, so my inability to stay strong where he was concerned was the thing that drove me the craziest. This is how I felt about my H's sexual acting out, as well. Maybe because my partners didn't try to leave me? Maybe my sense of wanting to win would have become front and center.

What was your R like before this OW? Was there cheating prior to her? How did he treat you before?

Hope you are doing well and feeling ok.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:27 AM, August 9th (Sunday)]

Ginger12 posted 8/9/2020 10:04 AM

Thank you. I am doing ok. He is with OW at her lake home this weekend but he has been texting about problems he is having down there with broken stuff. Our relationship I thought had always been fine. We starting dating in HS. I was 2 yrs older so after I graduated there was an instance where he was with another girl like holding hands and took her out a couple times. He did take her to a dance and then left her there and then came and picked me up and took me (we were always supposed to go together). Right after we were married he wa then unsure if he wanted to be married and was very distant and would do his own thing a lot. That lasted about 5 months. I have no idea if someone else was involved. Other than that there was nothing.

He started to be different in February of 2015 after we had to put our 13 yr old dog down. Right before that he gave me a hand made valentines card talking about how much he loved me and was so lucky to have me. He meet her at work in May of that year and started acting a little different and by August he was hanging out and staying the night at her house. This is when he told me we needed to take a break and to him it was just sleeping somewhere else cause he could not afford his own place. He did this off and on till last fall when he bought his grandmother’s home. Going back now he says he told me that he wanted a divorce back in February of that year which just is not true. He will also say he told me he was as done after our youngest was born in 2009 because I stayed home with him.

OwningItNow posted 8/9/2020 10:55 AM

Thoughts/questions:

1. You said you bury anger. As I said, anger is most likely very scary to you as it has the potential to push people away, so it is not surprising that you bury it. The problem is that without anger we only have sadness, and that can lead to very dark depression and thoughts. Anger motivates, but sadness leaves us feeling hopeless. I fear what will happen to you if you stay in this stuck sadness.

2. Years of group and IC help? They were probably the wrong fit for you. I had ICs that did nothing for me and left them. They are not all the same. I think you could also benefit from EMDR. Have you heard of it?

3. You don't post much, but do you read here a lot, Ginger? Like daily? And do other people's stories help in any way?

4. I am wondering if you are able to see that your WH has chosen another woman very much like you to be his AP? She is in her 40s and has never had a long-term boyfriend? Then she won't push him either. This situation could drag on for many years. How does that thought make you feel?

5. How long have you been married--about 15 years? What does his mother think about his behavior? I know she supports you, but does she get angry at your WH? Do your boys know what is going on? There are a lot of secrets in your WH's family, a lot of hiding stuff. Is this what they do with other things, too? Lie and hide information from each other? What is your WH's dad like?

Why don't you answer by sending a private message, Ginger. I don't want to take up everyone else's time with my many questions. Thanks! Have a great day.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:59 AM, August 9th (Sunday)]

Ginger12 posted 8/9/2020 12:22 PM

I do read a lot here and it does help!!! Ha my WH said OW is the complete opposite of me and she shows him love and that she cares about him and is mature. Things he says I am not. This year will be 19 yrs married and 25 yrs together. His mom is very angry at him and has not done as much for him lately but they do not discuss anything about the OW or him living somewhere else. Some of the family that lives around us do know he moved out but do not know there is another person.

His dad is a hot mess. His mom left his dad when my H was 6 months old due to him being an alcoholic. His dad came and saw him once when he was 8 and then did not see him again till he was in his late 20’s. He has been to see him a handful of times. He has never meet me or the kids. Funny enough he has taken OW to meet his dad.

My boys are 11 and 13 so they are old enough to voice how they feel. My oldest does not really share emotions but seems to be meh either way. He does his own thing. My youngest is scared of telling his dad no and has developed horrible anxiety around change and new things. He up until this COVID stuff happened used to ask everyday if dad was coming by. I have been working from home since March so it has pretty much been me and the boys everyday except for the couple days a week he comes by.

The1stWife posted 8/10/2020 05:15 AM

I’m sorry for your children. And you. Your children do t deserve to be abandoned by any parent.

How sad that “adults” just walk away from their children. Special place in hell for them IMO.

Maybe your youngest needs some professional help.

OwningItNow posted 8/10/2020 07:38 AM

Ginger, your youngest would do well to see someone and get a handle on his anxieties. It is always great to give kids tools to manage tough emotions--before things are out of control.

Your 13 year-old is not meh. I have never met a single person who did not have feelings--good, bad, or complicated--about the sperm and egg that made them. It is fundamental human nature to look to those two people to see who they are, how they feel about you, and how they feel about the world. It is biological and begins long before you could teach a baby not to care. Those are the first voices, the first touch, the first smells that a baby knows. And then that baby spends the rest of their lives looking at those two important people to make sense of the world. Your oldest's blase attitude is a cover for his true emotions and hurt. You should share some of your own feelings about your WH to get your son talking about his, not necessarily attacking your WH but just sharing the difficulty.

It seems very common when a man becomes a run away father and husband to find out he had no real example of fatherhood in his own childhood. As soon as he was a full-on father with your boys around 6 and 8, your WH took off on them. The cycle goes on. "My father was never around." Now your boys will grow up saying that, too.

And your WH took the OW to meet his father? Of course he did. He has fully compartmentalized his life. You and the kids are the family man he has no idea how to be, never witnesssed that in his life. OW represents the no family man, and the "we don't do family responsibility" is the only way he can relate to his dad. That's the side he shows him. They bond in their narcissistic irresponsibility.

my WH said OW is the complete opposite of me and she shows him love and that she cares about him and is mature. Things he says I am not.

Every narcissist talks this way, the put downs and projection. Um, who is immature here? It ain't you, Ginger. Lol. He's a narcissist all the way, but that makes sense. Someone highly CoD will pair well with someone highly narcissistic. The relationship styles are like magnets. The only problem is that the relationship will be nothing but pain and suffering to the CoD.

Have you read Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That? I think it would really help understand the narcissist + codependent abuse cycle. It helped me.

Ginger, do you want to get out of this mess? How much of you wants to leave? And how much of you cannot stand the idea? Are you 30% want to leave and 70% hate the idea? How sick of the situation are you?

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:40 AM, August 10th (Monday)]

EvenKeel posted 8/10/2020 08:38 AM

I already see my youngest giving into his dad all the time because he does not want to upset him

Oh Ginger. You are teaching/showing your child what is acceptable treatment.
Do you not see your children is doing exactly what you are doing?
Re-read that above sentence and substitute YOU for your youngest.

I am not saying this to make you feel worse. I am telling you this because it is what got through to me. When I realized THIS was the example I was showing my children of a M. THIS was the example I was showing them on HOW to be treated in a relationship. I did NOT want that for my children and I know you do not either.

It is your job to teach your child how to find their worth. Help them understand their value to themselves and to others and not settle for less!

You need to shut him down and reclaim your home and your own self. You are so much better than being your WH's side piece. That is what you are now - do you see that? He has established a home with the OW and is keeping you a secret...and you are jumping at the chance whenever it suits him. Heck no girl.

He doesn't want to take him to his house? Then he needs to take them somewhere else cause your house is not his visitation station. Trust me - you and your kiddos need a place that is a safe zone from his BS and that needs to be their own home.

As Dr Phil says - Children would rather be from a broken home than live in a broken home.

Do this for your children, if you can't for yourself right now. Show them it is not acceptable to let anyone treat you like this (or them). The example their father is showing them is horrifying and toxic. He is not going to change but you can. They need one of you to be that good example.

You can do this Ginger. Take back your power. Shut him down, file those papers, do not welcome him in your home or bed. Stop engaging and jump off the crazy train.

It will be hard but what you are doing right now is SOOO much harder.

You deserve peace in your life and this is the way there.

Sending your strength!

Bigger posted 8/10/2020 09:16 AM

Ginger

I take marriage seriously and I differentiate between the emotional aspects of a marriage and the purely contractual aspects of a marriage.

This varies from state to state but do you realize that if the heater goes in his new home (even if it’s in OW name) he might take out a loan or charge a new heater to a card in his name? If he forfeits and it goes into collections they might come after assets in your house or even for your house?
If he cosigned his OW car-loan they could go after his assets (as in HIS part of the home, HIS part in savings etc) that are also YOUR assets?
Do you realize he could be withdrawing his 401K or pension or savings – things that you could legally have a claim to in divorce.

I’m fairly certain some well-intending poster could come along and point out that this isn’t likely to happen or can be prevented or whatever. But why not simply AVOID it?
At the very least talk to an attorney about what contractual commitments are still in place and how to minimize them.

I realize it’s hard, but right now you have to use the same mentality as you do when the oxygen mask drop down: Save yourself before thinking of saving others. His actions NOW can impact you and your children. You can always slow the speed of divorce and even withdraw it, but it pays to have the legal dots over the i’s and the financial t’s crossed.

[This message edited by Bigger at 10:49 AM, August 10th (Monday)]

Ginger12 posted 8/10/2020 12:12 PM

Thank you all for your advice and words.

OwiningItNow: Yes I do want to get out of this but I feel so much anxiety when I even think about it and feel like I will never have anyone else and I will be alone forever. I am terrified of starting over and having no one there for me. It does make sense that he introduced her to his dad and not his mom who is his world. She has no desire to ever meet this woman. I am probably at 30% wanting to leave and 70% wanting it to work out. In my mind, though I have no idea how it could work out cause I could never fully trust him again. I have caught him in so many lies about where he goes, what he has done for her, money he spends on things, etc. Just the other day I found out he bought her $200 day flowers when he swore he never has bought her any type of flower and he had his mom send me some from the kids.

I am on medication for my anxiety and it truly does help with the triggers but I do still get attacks over some things. He came over last night after being at the lake with her all weekend and did not really speak to the kids and just came into my room and watch TV and sleep for a bit. Ihave a feeling she has no idea what his relationship is with me still or maybe she does not care.

I hate the anxiety I get when I do not know what he is doing or what he is doing with her. I hate that I care but I do not know how to stop it. I have no idea how to get to meh.

EllieKMAS posted 8/10/2020 12:23 PM

Yes I do want to get out of this but I feel so much anxiety when I even think about it and feel like I will never have anyone else and I will be alone forever.

Ginger, do me a favor and go read in the 'Fear vs Reality' thread. I get that fear of the unknown, but more often than not, those fears are more about the unknown piece than the reality you end up in.

I'm not saying your fears aren't valid because they very much are.

I am terrified of starting over and having no one there for me.

Soooo explain to me exactly how he is 'there' for you NOW? Because he just spent the whole weekend with 'the love of his life' AP while YOU were home raising his children.

I think when you are in a heightened state of fear and anxiety it is worth really digging in to the fear. So what specifically terrifies you about the thought of starting over?

I said it pages ago and I reiterate now Ginger. You can get off of this shit merry-go-round whenever you want to. Yes, change is scary. Yes, 'starting over' is scary. Yes to all of that. But are any of those fears scarier to you than staying with a cake-eating shithead who treats you and your kids like shit for the rest of your life?

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 12:26 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

Ginger12 posted 8/15/2020 13:25 PM

So today the OW may be meeting an extended side of his family. He did at least tell them about her so they would not be shocked. I feel like I have lost a big chunk of me. I have been in this family for 25yrs and they are more my family than my own. I feel like I’m slowly loosing everything and I don’t know how to stop it. I have in my mind the family will think she is way better than me and I hate that. Yet while he is with the person he says is the first person to show him love and the love of his life he still wants to sleep with me. I know cake eating but why when u beg for me to divorce you and u are so happy, why not leave me alone. Why not go live your happy life? Why hurt her like that?

Thissucks5678 posted 8/15/2020 14:00 PM

Hi, Ginger. Your thread caught my eye for some reason. I would really like to encourage you to read some books on codependency and also please check out The Fatherless Daughters Project. So many of the actions and feelings you are describing are how I felt after dday. I am so sorry you are here and In so much pain.

So many of us without fathers tend to act very similarly in our thoughts and fears and when we lose our husbands that the hole from the the initial abandonment is reopened and the pain is just incredible. If you’ve never addressed it previously, it may be even harder for you to heal from your WH’s infidelity. I strongly recommend you seek IC.

Your WH is not a prize right now. He is not worthy of you. I am sorry that you can’t see that. I hope in time you are able to.

StillLivin posted 8/15/2020 14:28 PM

As long as you're in this "relationship" with him, you are going to be miserable. To cut to the chase, YOU are choosing to be miserable. You can armchair psychoanalysis it til you're blue in the face, but it still boils down to choice. You choose to be miserable. Start with that. You need to figure out why you're ok with choosing to he a victim.

Ginger12 posted 8/15/2020 16:39 PM

I need to figure out how to get past the horrible anxiety i get when I know they are out doing something special or like when I see a picture of them or know she is decorating the house with all this live stuff. I know I am making myself miserable but the anxiety I get sends me into a tail spin. I don’t know how to move on from that. I want to get to the point of when I see him I’m meh and not feeling like I need to get him to like me or win.

StillLivin posted 8/15/2020 17:32 PM

You are not going to get to why you feel anxiety about what he's doing until you address why you are ok with choosing to be miserable. I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to get you to figure out YOUR whys. Thats the only way to fix yourself
FWIW it's acceptable to get anxious. You still care. It's not acceptable to stay in the relationship though. Many have panic attacks before signing divorce papers. They get themselves under control after a bit of time and then sign those papers. Same with packing and leaving. The problem isn't your anxiety but choosing to give into it.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 5:35 PM, August 15th (Saturday)]

Ginger12 posted 8/15/2020 19:22 PM

No offense taken. I’m pretty sure I am ok being miserable because I fear abandonment so much and a need to be wanted. I have always been that way with boys and I pretty sure it was from my dad writing me off with he had my half sisters when I was 13. I’m terrified to not have someone. I’m also terrified to loose to someone else. I think in my mind something is better than nothing.

Anna123 posted 8/15/2020 21:47 PM

when I even think about it and feel like I will never have anyone else and I will be alone forever. I am terrified of starting over and having no one there for me.

You have the most important people in the world. Your children. In a few short years they will be adults. These are your last few years to set them up for that.

You seem to have insight into your own fears. This is good! You are smart enough to handle this. The emotions suck, but mentally, you can figure this out. Keep reading, Keep coming here for guidance, and visualize yourself getting through this. Pretend in your mind what that would be like. You don't "have" him right now anyway. There is nothing to loose and much more to gain.

Take care of yourself.