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Hmmm... This reads almost like a counter proposal. Some glimpse of getting it.. but still a lot of blame shifting. All-in-all.... About a 4 out of 10 on the remorse scale...solid 7 out of 10 on the regret. Those numbers need to shift a lot.

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:04 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

I drifted away from Jesus Christ and decided to steer my way on my own and failed miserably. How can I fix it? Simply to give back the steering wheel to Jesus.

I'm a fellow orthodox Christian, and I hope you're not offended if I say this sounds very maudlin. It rings hollow. So very hollow. Paint by numbers.

Proverbs 30:20, man. Read it.

Her answer as to why she had a two year affair is indeed "so simple." It's TOO simple, in point of fact. One might say simplistic.

we’ve ignored each other for so long

That's blameshifting. They just can't help themselves.

Her note to you is chock full of blameshifting.

Her trying to get you meet with the Pastor is manipulative. I am sorry to report that in most evangelical circles these days, adultery is papered over and rug-swept. There's tremendous pressure to blameshift on the husbands too.

Let me know if someone tries to use the wife of Hosea as an example of why you should take your wife back. I'll give you some crib notes on why that is theologically false.

You said that I went out of my way to humiliate you, again I’m so sorry you feel that way

Good grief, where is the Universal Bullshit Translator when you need it because this note certainly qualifies!

This is known as a non-apology apology.

I was having too much fun aiming at paper target thinking I wouldn’t hurt anyone just to realize that you were standing right behind my paper target, my fun bullets went through the papers into your chest. I knew all along you were there behind my paper target but convinced myself I wouldn’t get you

"Hey, AHGuy those bullets were *fun* bullets, what are you so hyped up about! Didn't they feel fun when they ripped through you? Fun! I didn't really think shooting fun bullets at a paper target with you standing behind it would do anything at all. And if you disagree, I'm sorry you feel that way."

From sexuality standpoint, if that’s your concern, you are much superior.

They always say this. Always. Could be true, could be a lie. But they always say it.

The only thing I want to add and please do not take it the wrong way I’m just stating the truth, you did not want any of that, You rejected all my intimacies you cared less if I dressed sexy or not

"Please do not take my blameshifting the wrong way!"

In any case, AHGuy, I don't know you at all, but reading your posts since you started this thread, I doubt if this is even a true statement on her part.

All I want is a chance to let you have my femininity for you only.

"I had to work out of my system giving up all the goodies to another man for TWO YEARS, but now I only want to give it to you! What's the matter, don't see how precious and special my femininity is?"

I know you don’t believe it but I never wanted to be with him, all the messages you read were a pack of lies that we exchanged. I don’t care about his money.

"I know you read our text exchanges, and we did scheme about leaving you and OBS for TWO YEARS ... but you need to ignore all of that. Because even though I tore you down for not being wealthy enough, I don't really care about his money. All that stuff I said to him for TWO YEARS? Just a pack of lies. Now, I just said I'm a habitual liar who can lie convincingly for TWO YEARS, but I'm telling you the truth. Can't you see that?"

Like I wrote above I was stupid to aim at a paper target knowing you were right behind it.

This is maybe the dumbest analogy ever, and she must have thought it was really clever, but yeah, she's right about this part. It's pretty f'ing stupid to aim at a paper target when an innocent man is standing behind it. Or just plain malicious. Take your pick. Neither is a good option.

You are correct about wanting to save face, but that’s not all.

That's not all, but it's the first thing she mentions. She just told you saving face is her priority!

others will be along to say more and you know her best of all. But her note reeks of justification, rationalization, manipulation, minimization and blameshifting.

You asked why I had an affair my answer is so simple, I drifted away from Jesus Christ and decided to steer my way on my own and failed miserably. How can I fix it? Simply to give back the steering wheel to Jesus.

There is a lot wrong with her email,but this bothers me the most. She has done zero work to figure out why she cheated. A lot of people aren't religious, but they don't cheat. This is not,in any way, close to why she cheated. And the second part?? Omg. She thinks she can fix this "simply." And all she has to do is turn back to God.

Nope. No. No way.

Im going to chime in on this one. My WW was also a very strong Christian and was a virgin when we married.

I drifted away from Jesus Christ and decided to steer my way on my own and failed miserably. How can I fix it? Simply to give back the steering wheel to Jesus.

This is a cop out answer. This is way to easy and she is only going to go back to doing what she thinks she is supposed to be doing. She needs to understand at her core why she made the choices she made. Her answer will eventually turn into "I was tempted by the devil" or some version of that. Which is another way of saying its not my fault.

It does not sound like she wants to do the work. She wants Jesus to take the wheel and blame the absence of Jesus on TWO YEARS of lies. I cannot believe she had the balls to ask you to take blame for the problems she saw in the marriage. She wants to blame Jesus for her choices and not actually admit she is such a broken person that she chose to do this TO her husband and children. She sounds like she is really hoping you'll sign up for rugsweeping and let her say oops, forgot Jesus and now I'm all good. Yuck.

I do think you should proceed with d and let her actions during that process tell you whether or not to complete the d or not. Her words are meaningless as she is a proven liar.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 6:28 PM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

The more I think about it, it's just lazy churchspeak she tossed into this word salad -- and I'm more than a little offended she thought it was okay to attempt that gambit.

It shows a real lack of self-awareness. And frankly it makes a mockery of devout and serious Christians who are putting in real effort to be His disciples.

If she had a lot more introspection about her actual relationship with Jesus Christ, the real meaning of atonement on the Cross, the actual true convicting thoughts the Holy Spirit has shared with her recently, how she has violated the temple of her body, and more, then maybe I would buy it.

But this seems like a throwaway line to me.

Like the above poster said, lots of atheists don't cheat. Lots of Christians do. The numbers don't lie.

This doesn't get fixed by "giving the steering wheel back to Jesus." What does that even mean? The Babylon Bee, a Christian satirical news site, once had a funny fake article about giving the steering wheel to Jesus, because He can't drive!

I'm only kidding.

But this statement is very surface oriented and doesn't reflect any real introspection or depth of thought about the Faith or her willful violation of its tenets.

"Whoops, I just totally forgot about Jesus for TWO YEARS - the Author and Finisher of our Faith, the indispensable man who is the entire subject of the New Testament! Just totally forgot! I went to church a lot in that time period, but I totally forgot about Jesus. I don't know how He slipped my mind. But now I remembered. All good."

No.

Just no.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:41 PM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

“You said that I gave him what was precious to us and that I dressed up for him, thought about what I could do for him and that I did things for him, emotionally, romantically, sexually that I never did for you. Yes I did all that and to be honest reading it the way you wrote it made me hate myself more. I wish I could change that, there is no excuse or debate about how wrong I was. The only thing I want to add and please do not take it the wrong way I’m just stating the truth, you did not want any of that, You rejected all my intimacies you cared less if I dressed sexy or not, before reading your email I was convinced that you didn’t want anything like that from me.“

AH, she is still blame shifting. This response made my skin crawl. She is explicitly placing the blame on you for her actions. I wish you success in whatever direction you take, but reconciliation is going to be a tough road for you.

Hmmm... This reads almost like a counter proposal. Some glimpse of getting it.. but still a lot of blame shifting. All-in-all.... About a 4 out of 10 on the remorse scale...solid 7 out of 10 on the regret. Those numbers need to shift a lot.

I give her a 12 out of 10 on the bullshit scale.

I would suggest you follow the instructions listed on this thread. Having a WW that wants to do the work still requires a lot of self reflection and guidance. I'd listen to what the people here have to say, if you decide to R. There are pitfalls no matter which way you go, but I can promise you this, it will be a lot better if you listen to the folks on this site. They have a ton of knowledge.

You rejected all my intimacies you cared less if I dressed sexy or not, before reading your email I was convinced that you didn’t want anything like that from me.

I think she's flat out lying here. You rejected ALL of her intimacies? You 'cared less' if she dressed sexy? Really?

I don't buy it. This is a great example of the phenomenon known as rewriting the history of the marriage.

What a selfish navel-gazer this woman is.

If she gives Jesus the wheel, He will probably boot her out of the car the way he whipped the money-changers.

Jesus is not a 'nice guy' and she has a simplistic notion of what the Faith really is. Nice guys don't undergo a scourging and get up on a cross to rescue all of mankind.

I'll stop with the preaching now, but this statement by her was so lacking in seriousness.

On the brigth side, she seems to be honest.

But, IMO she is trying to make you responsable for her A. You are responsable for the marriage problema on 50%, but her affair is 100% on her.

IMO you should be concerned about her trying to save face and the rigth thing to do argumentds

Have you asked if she is/was in love with OM? If she is/was in love with you while the Affair? Living you as her children father is not the same as being in love with you!

It seems like she felt out of love with you, but as the "rigth thing to do " is not D, so she started and affair so she doesnt need to D and saved face. Now that everything is on the open, the rigth thing to do is save her marriage, so she can save face again.

Something that doesnt add Up, is why she has a come to jesus change of Heart. Why is she comcern about OM family now, and not when OMW discovered the Affair? Why she kept talking to OM then. Ask her what changed.

When was the last communicating with OM? Sorry but It was not when OM was caugth! I think is whenOM didnt left his wife for good to be with yours, As planned

any man would be more than Happy to see her wife dreesed Up, and be willing to try new sexo things!!! You setenta reactive because she wanted the feedback from OM, not just for her Husband. Sorry but you were / are not fun as you were focused on other things that she couldnt Saw...

Be very carefull with pastors councelling, they are Focus on save the marriage no Matter what

Last thing, getting D Will provide her an opportunity to have no reason to be with you, other than love. Don't stay for guilt. Don't stay for obligation. Don't stay for a meal ticket. don't stay to avoid humiliation. Don't stay for the children.

Only when all of those things are no longer reasons you would know that she wants you!!

I give her a 12 out of 10 on the bullshit scale.

So awesome. Like a boss.

Let me try your wife's style of reasoning:

"Your honor I beat my wife because I turned away from Jesus!"

"Officer, I shot that man and took his money because I turned away from Jesus!"

"I wrote bad checks all over town... because I turned away from Jesus!"

AHguy DO. NOT. GO. TO. THE. PASTOR.

It's a pressure game to rugsweep.

Just ask yourself. in 3 months, 6 months, 2 years, 5 years, will this still gnaw at you? Will you truly trust her? Will you still be haunted by what she said and did, over and over, until she got caught?

Can you accept her shitting all over you for years and then being like: "my bad, lemme get a do-over!"

***

And for the love of Mike, you gotta shut down this "He made me feel like I was special" or whatever it is she wrote to justify giving herself to this dickwad.

She was never anything but something to fuck for him. No fuck, no attention. She is not even special to him, she just one of many dumb chicks to string along and fuck.

You're tough, but I think you are too nice to let her know what she really was to him, where she really stands in his life.

I know you are wounded. Time to get mad and get real with her.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:53 PM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

What a terrible letter. She cheated due to lack of Jesus in her life? An excuse to explain anything. Rest of letter was about blaming you. Divorce her and fast. She does not love you. Letter made that clear.

to be honest with you I’m still struggling to get over the whole situation and would love the support you have always provided. However, I wish one day you would realize your part of what went wrong too.

She's "struggling and wants your support that you always provided"!! so this is still about her ? and the part about "your part of what went wrong" needs to be blown out of the water and stopped immediately, she needs to own this 100% period, no questions asked. Also her paper target analogy is simply BULLSHIT, and there was NO paper anywhere, you were right there blindfolded and they both were staring at you while holding the gun and aiming together, this women is still deflecting blame and doesn't want to own up and accept this was 100% her fault, all that needs to be addressed and if she still doesn't agree then there's nothing to work with here.

She's definitely not remorseful and tbh 75% of her response was pure horseshit, the other 25% you could probably work with but that would require a mountain of commitments from her, she hinted at being transparent and quitting her job/career which is good and at least shows she's willing to sacrifice something but after a 2 year LTA that's just the least she could do, remember that she admitted that part of her goals is to "save face" so she's still selfish and her feelings are still a priority.

Now follow up with the conversation and tough questions, even the X rated ones and get that out of the way, again try to remain calm, at the end of the conversation insist on a complete written and detailed timeline of her A (tell her she will be subject to a polygraph), call her bluff and demand she turns in her resignation TOMORROW and give the firm her 2 weeks notice, make her send the NC FOREVER text to OM and to her partner (quitting is not enough), and for god's sake do NOT allow her to speak in person or over the phone with OBS (this is for her to assuage her guilt and possibly to get back at boyfriend), ask her if she's already gotten tested for STDs and if not what the hell is she waiting for (press her on putting your health at risk) ?. She's a "run of the mill" WW a few days after Dday.

I always suggest filing for D when it comes to serial cheaters and/or LTAs like yours, however it's your life and it's up to you, it's possible to R successfully from much worse and we have certainly seen those cases but they are few and far in between, a 2 year LTA where you knew OM and interacted with him on a regular basis is tough to recover from, every birthday, anniversary, christmas, holiday, special occassion has been tainted, it would be very very difficult but yes it's possible if she commits to do the heavy lifting however even if she does everything perfect there are NO guarantees, so again it's your life and it's up to you if you want to give her the gift of R, you don't even have to make a decision immediately, in fact and like I mentioned before I would file for D and tell her this M was destroyed and killed by her A and that if there's to be any chance at R there would have to be a new one but that it could take up to 2 years for that (the length of her A) for you make a decision, that you could even remain living together if that's what you want and even have sex (not "duty sex like she called it) and see how much she's really willing to sacrifice, and if she's willing to take that leap of faith.

You are responsable for the marriage problema on 50%, but her affair is 100% on her.

I think we should push back on this. This bromide gets shared around SI all the time. Is it really true? What's the empirical basis for it?

I think it's not true a lot of the time. I think infidelity happens in good marriages all the time, more often than not. If we have a 50 percent divorce rate and we can assume most divorce is caused by infidelity (with a lesser amount by abuse, addiction and other causes) are we prepared to say half of all marriages were not good? Of course not, so it stands to reason that most of the time, it's a good marriage. Nota bene, I didn't say great. I didn't say perfect. I said good.

Now if we grant that most infidelity happens in the context of good marriages that could have been better, and absent infidelity, might have been very successful lifelong partnerships, then what are we to say about the infidel?

Well, Occam's razor, we can say that the infidel was likely a greater contributor to problems in the marriage, probably GREATER than 50 percent and probably much greater.

Typically betrayed husbands come to SI and say right away "I wasn't a perfect husband." Well no shit Sherlock! And I bet your wife wasn't a perfect wife, either. And I bet your needs weren't 'being met' all the time. Know why? Because "unmet needs" is a nonsense, untested phrase and represents a bottomless pit, a black maw of selfishness.

If we assume -- and it's safe to assume this -- that most infidels are at least leaning toward the narcissist end of the spectrum, it's quite safe to assume they were intellectually and emotionally lazy in the marriage, and contributed to more of the "problems" in it than the betrayed did.

I think we should stop using this formula.

And when you see notes like AHGuy's WW just shared, you know what I'm saying rings true.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:58 PM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

"to be honest with you"

Liars like to use this phrase a lot. She wasn't honest with for more than 700 days.

One thing, she was really invested in OM, romantically, emotionally and sexually, and Tella you that sexually you are superior...

I am sorry but sex happens in the brain, and affair sex with her level of involvement plus the ilicit and forbident factores, is equal a mind blowind sex. No Matter if your technique is superior. She was willing to do things with him out of lust, even when at sex moment was not as good, but the planning, the waiting, etc was the real spice that made their sex amazing, Evan when now she thinks otherwise looking back ( btw she is not, at least not yet).

AH, also Orthodox here and I can't add much to what Thumos said.

But I want to second don't go to the pastor.

Modern Christians emphasize "compassion" so there will be a call for you to be compassionate to your poor crying wife, just look at her crying! Modern churches think Christ said "turn the other cheek" and maybe a bunch of other stuff maybe.

I just want to remind you that Christians are also called to be JUST. You moderate justice with compassion, but justice it must be.