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D day was 4 months ago. BS has been wearing her ring everyday since, but just recently I’ve noticed she has been wearing it less and less. Should I ask about this or just let it be? We have very little communication about the A. I’ve tried to ask if she wants to talk, but she mostly doesn’t want to. Thanks

Maybe you could simply acknowledge and validate why she would be wearing it less to start.

If she feels like talking, it opens the door.

Also, perhaps you were being short, but.. if you approach her and say "do you feel like talking about it" and that's it, it's just not that inviting.

But, I also know that some BSs (mine too) don't particularly feel the need to talk. Trauma responses can go either way as far as needing to talk about it or not.

I only brought that up because I've seen countless times where a BS will state that we aren't doing enough to show we are in the trenches with them and sit back to watch our actions. And initiating conversations (genuinely) is part of it.

I don’t even remember the last time I put my ring on at this point, and my WH has yet to ask.

I would personally want to be asked.

Thank you both for your advice. It may seem silly or a bit crazy, but I always watched for her to wear her ring as a small glimmer of hope. Foreverlabeled, yes I was just being short with my post, I do mention when she seems to be hurting today and I’m sorry for that and if she would like to talk. I know I am supposed to be focusing my personal healing, but some days I can’t help but look for hope.

Maybe instead of “asking her if she wants to talk” you could try telling her that you would like to talk.

Seriously, so many WS’ go this “do you want to talk?” route with their BS’. It’s so fucking passive. They might as well say “Hey BS, I know I fucked everything up but I don’t have any idea what to say so let me just throw the ball into your court and let you do the heavy lifting. Oh....and by the way, I know I am the person who betrayed you and hurt you terribly but could you just go ahead and make yourself completely vulnerable to me by telling me, in detail, all of your feelings about that?” Do you see how ridiculous that sounds when you look at it that way?

Instead, maybe tell her how you feel about what you did. Tell her about the remorse that you feel. Empathize with her pain without her having to first do the soul crushing work of being emotionally vulnerable enough to explain it to you in excruciating detail for you every time.

You said yourself:

she seems to be hurting today

So you are clearly capable of seeing her pain. Do you really need her to explain to you why she’s hurting? It’s not exactly a Sherlock Holmes level mystery I’m guessing. You know the source, how much more information do you require in order to empathize with her?

I know that, for me, it was often difficult to even begin to talk about how I was feeling. I didn’t trust my WW enough, didn’t feel safe enough with her, to allow myself to be that vulnerable and open with her in the beginning. Over time we learned that when I closed up like that the best solution was for her to talk to me. To open up and be vulnerable with me first. Only then could I feel comfortable enough to express my own feelings.

Of course thats going to require you to allow yourself to be vulnerable, to put yourself out there and risk rejection or anger in return. And frankly, you are probably going to get smacked down pretty often at first. But if you can keep on trying, despite those smack downs, I think you might find that the walls start to come down.

Best of luck,

HT

[This message edited by HoldingTogether at 10:19 PM, April 9th (Thursday)]

No stop sign, so I will chime in. BS here. Your post reminds me of my own FWH, who used to panic when he I would waver in my desire to be married to him.

I think you say what I think I read in your post: That you have noticed that she is not wearing her ring every day, that it scares you and

It may seem silly or a bit crazy, but I always watched for her to wear her ring as a small glimmer of hope.

Reiterate that you will do anything she needs to begin to feel safe in the marriage. Acknowledge that you you made shitty choices that destroyed her world, her trust, her vision of her future and that none of these choices were her fault. Tell her you would do anything to take it back and will do anything to help her heal. That you love and adore her, that she is the most beautiful and wonderful woman and that you lowered yourself to having an A with someone who is far less than her equal. No comparison. NO contact with the AP AT ALL, EVER. Period. If you contacted via phone, block her and do not answer calls from unidentifiable sources. Disable your social networking sites unless your wife gives you permission to have them. You have proven that you cannot be trusted. She should have all passwords to EVERYTHING and should be able to ask to see your phone, tablet or computer screen at any time without argument or pause.

Your WIFE needs to drive her own response. If she does not want to talk, let it go. Just be there for her. I get that it is scary for you, but this is not about you. Make sure you never lie about any.thing. No lying by omission, no half truths: FULL transparency - no matter how difficult or painful. This will begin to show her that you might be able to be trusted. Take whatever she throws at you...rage...tears...like an adult. Ask if there is anything you can do for her....no defensive posturing. You cannot defend the indefensible. Take responsibility for ALL of the affair. Nothing she did caused you to make shitty choices. You had honorable choices but you chose not to make those. Get yourself into IC VOLUNTARILY to learn how to be a safe partner and worthy of being in her life. You must engage in this consistently and for the long term. Tell her how grateful you are that she allowed you to be in her world every day, multiple times a day and ACT grateful. Your words mean nothing to her right now as you are a proven liar. Your ACTIONS will be more important. It took my WH a year of hard, HARD work before he was able to be completely honest and before I could even begin to think that I might believe anything he said.

The above referenced actions are only SOME of the things my husband has been doing for the last 4.5 years. If the A is not a dealbreaker for your wife, these actions might help her begin to heal. Remember, none of this will take away the betrayal. We do not forget, we learn to live with the devastation this causes.

All in all, you will need to deal with the consequences of your actions like an adult. That might be a hard transition as the actions of a WS are those of a child and the self-centered thinking is hard to change. IC and reading books like How to Help you Suppose Heal from an Affair can help with that transition. Please also note that you do not get to make any decisions for her. You lost that right when you cheated.

^^^ Yep, if your focus has been on the marriage, then it is an obvious answer...go to her and talk. If half the people that come here actually were that vulnerable, transparent, and open with their BS after Dday...they wouldn't be here. This is the point of R. To change into a person that is willing to be vulnerable and intimate with themselves and their BS. To be willing to be hurt and face it. That holds true to being honest with yourself and trusting yourself. Facing who you became and talking about that person. Getting it and owning it.

There could be many reasons why she doesn't want to talk. Ask her. She might just be done and feels trapped. She might be fed up if you are defensive very time you talk. So, talk and listen. Listen. Don't already formulate responses to counter her or protect yourself. Just listen.

No. Don't ask. You know why. Her husband cheated on her. She feels unsafe,and raw. She is drowning in pain. The ring doesn't represent much to her anymore. That marriage was murdered by her husband. Well..no. Not her husband. By this stranger in her house, because her husband, who she thought he was, would have never done this.

What you should do is tell her you noticed she wasn't wearing her ring,and you are so sorry that because of your actions, she feels the need to stop wearing it. That you understand it is a tangible symbol of broken promises. And that you are doing, and are going to do, everything possible, to make her feel safe, secure, and loved, so that one day, she will want to wear a wedding ring again.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:04 AM, April 10th (Friday)]

so many WS’ go this “do you want to talk?” route with their BS’. It’s so fucking passive. They might as well say “Hey BS, I know I fucked everything up but I don’t have any idea what to say so let me just throw the ball into your court and let you do the heavy lifting. Oh....and by the way, I know I am the person who betrayed you and hurt you terribly but could you just go ahead and make yourself completely vulnerable to me by telling me, in detail, all of your feelings about that?” Do you see how ridiculous that sounds when you look at it that way?

I wish every WS could see how ridiculous it sounds. It's been a giant issue with my WH - that pretty much anything requires that I do all the heavy lifting... cuz he's scared. Odd that there is no fucking fear at all when it comes to dropping their pants for strange, but when it comes to taking the reins with their BS? different story altogether.

tell her you noticed she wasn't wearing her ring,and you are so sorry that because of your actions, she feels the need to stop wearing it. That you understand it is a tangible symbol of broken promises. And that you are doing, and are going to do, everything possible, to make her feel safe, secure, and loved, so that one day, she will want to wear a wedding ring again.

That's how I feel/felt.

I don't think this is true for everyone, but it does seem to be true for MOST - the marriage is DEAD. gone. Kaput. A pile of rubble. Personally, even if the BS is not of this ilk, I can see where the WS taking this posit would be helpful insofar as they recognize that something once safe and intimate is gone, and that EVERYTHING must be rebuilt from the ground up.

Do the heavy lifting. For yourself and for your BW. Be proactive.

Why would a married woman intentionally not wear her wedding ring?

Because she doesn't feel safe with her husband.

By not wearing her ring, she is talking to you. Listen more closely.

Redeemed, I think you posted before that your wife refused to talk about the affair. You can't force her, but you can express that you want to talk with her and help her process this. If you aren't already, ask her open ended questions. Just make sure it's the right environment for that. Preferably kids at a sleepover or the two of you out in your car parked somewhere where she can feel free to yell or cry.

You could ask her if you could get her a different type of ring to represent that you are committed to doing whatever it takes to fix your marriage. (I know would couple irl that did that. Not a commitment to R on her part, but his reminder to her that he wasn't giving up.) You could tell her that some day you hope she will let you replace your wedding bands because you know your old marriage is dead, but you hope and pray to build a new one. And perhaps you would still wear your old ring on a chain to remind you of how far you fell and to never hurt her and your family like that ever again.

She may reject all of the above, as is her right. If I'm remembering correctly, you feel shut out because she won't look at you, talk about the affair, or accept physical affection of any kind. Has there been any progress at all?

[This message edited by RosesandThorns at 1:51 PM, April 10th (Friday)]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I know my original post was kind of short and left out details. I completely 100% undeniably accept full complete total responsibility for such a terrible choice I made. I have not and will not give any excuse for my actions. I have no problem with being vulnerable to her and opening up, although with the ups and downs that she is dealing with (I know I can’t imagine) I just never know the right way to approach her. She asked for space which I’ve been giving her and also she’s expressed that talking to me is too painful, so I try to respect that as well. I am in no way defensive about anything. How can I be after what I did??

I just try to make things as comfortable for her and our kids as possible. I know people say it’s supposed to be about me working on myself, but it’s a battle to not want to spend every second trying to care for my family when they are hurting. That’s something I need to work on. Still trying to grasp when I should give space and when I should press in. I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Rosesandthorns, somedays show small signs of progress. We do try to choose where we talk when kids are not around, which is difficult right now with virus stuff.

Thanks again to every response. Really is great advice .

Is she still talking to a counselor? I would worry about her bottling up and becoming depressed. As long as she is still talking to someone, though, the only thing you can do is pray. And be patient. Assuming you've made it clear you're fighting for your marriage, you have to give her space. There is a balance between fighting for her and your marriage and trying to push/hurry her, at least from her perspective.

Have you tried writing her short notes? Something like, "I know I have hurt you in a horrific way. I will be here waiting when you're ready to talk about it. Please tell me if you think of a way I can help you. I'll do anything." If you leave her a note, she can put it in a drawer, read it, or throw it out. But it lets her know you're not rugsweeping without putting her on the spot, giving her some control. (She needs to feel she has some control over her life.) Have you tried that?

[This message edited by RosesandThorns at 6:53 PM, April 12th (Sunday)]

Roses and thorns,we actually talked a bit and I reaffirmed that I am in no way wanting to pressure her and that I am not going anywhere. I am great full she is putting in the time to truly think and pray on this. She is still talking to IC. I must fight the urge to want to “fix it”. Trying to shove the pieces back into place won’t work. I’m just praying for strength for us both to sustain in this. thank you again for the insight.

It may have less to do with how often she wears it, than when/where she wears it, or doesn't. It is her mindset that you should worry about, not the rings.

I know after D-day wearing my ring meant less to me than it did before. I always wore my ring unless My finger was to swollen to wear it, or unless I was working with a tool that prohibited it, or involved in a procedure at work that prohibited it (in my profession people often pin their rings to their uniform during the work day). I always wore my ring at work and in all social circumstances, it was a sign to others that I was taken and not looking, it still is. I ASSUMED it meant the same thing to my FWS. I didn't leave home without it, and I even swam with it on many times.

Now, what follows is true, but this is by no means meant to be downgrading, irritating, or insulting.

My FWS wore her rings during the affair; no problem, married, children, wearing rings, taken, but looking, available and DTF.

So, now, nearly 20 years later and 10 years after D-day, I still wear my ring, but I'm way less obsessive about it.

After all, my wearing my ring meant nothing to my FWS when she was cheating, and just because I hung it on a keychain during a procedure didn't mean I went into a closet and had sex with another woman.

I mean to say that it still means the same thing to me, but ring or not, anyone who gives a flying fuck can see the mark on my finger, and people who don't wouldn't care if I was wearing a ring or not. It is not the ring, it is the attitude that matters, it is the mindset.

I still have the same mindset, ring on or ring off, "I'm married, and until I"m not married, I'm taken and have responsibilities that are of greater importance than my innate sex drive."

Something I discovered was that having a bath together with some music playing is a good way to have some really good conversations.

Amazing how much insight my BW was able to provide me once she saw that I was opening up and sharing.

Forget the ring. That is a symbol. Talk to her.

Standinghere, thanks for the insight. I think you’re right about it being about her mindset in this. I have a bad way of looking for “signs” of what she is thinking or feeling. I know this is wrong and have been and still am working on. I never did mention the ring, but just focus on showing her love in my actions and how I speak and interact. Regardless of what I see, I will choose to press on being steadfast in my actions. Talking as she is ready.

my wearing my ring meant nothing to my FWS when she was cheating....

I felt the same way. Redeemed - did you remove your ring when meeting your AP? For me (and I believe many BWs) that was a BFD. Once I knew where his ring "had been" (ie on his AP's naked body), the ring itself disgusted me. In my traumatized mind, it might as well have been my own hand on / in that body. The symbol of our M/love was devalued and disrespected just as much as me and the M itself. Not all BS will have that reaction, but I sure did and it was very strong.

If wearing my ring made no difference and him wearing his ring made no difference, why wear it? It was no longer a symbol of our vows or our commitment to each other, the M, or even our community. All it became was a symbol of what was broken, not what could keep anything together. Not sure your BW has this mindset, but many do. Just another perspective.

I never did mention the ring

why not? This concerns me as conflict avoidance. You don't ask bc you don't want to hear or deal with the answer.

IMO, that's not a great sign. It does not show courage. It does not show a WS being proactive.

You don't ask bc you don't want to hear or deal with the answer.

BOOM! This...

Now that you have this insight (and excellent perspectives from others) what are you going to do about it?

Redeemed, it would be a good idea to ask her if wearing her ring (or seeing you wear yours) is too painful. Or if that isn't what is going on. I wouldn't gloss over that. She still needs to be reminded with words from time to time (spoken or written) that you are still praying and still fighting, still doing the work to grow. The more aggressive suggestions given, while very good, might be too much at this point if she doesn't want affection or to talk or look at you.

Not gonna lie, this is going to be tough. Maybe a step forward, five steps back, three forward, four back. You may become weary and discouraged in waiting. But don't give up. She needs you to have the strength to not give up. Remember when you are at your breaking point that you have just been given a window into the hell she's been trudging through since D Day. If/when she comes to the place where she wants to heal herself AND your marriage, your having done the work on yourself in the meantime will help her that much more. I truly believe that God wants to restore marriages whenever both parties are willing (and by that I mean BS have a right not to be and some just aren't able) to work through infidelity. Keep praying and doing what He's telling you to do. He hears your heart.

[This message edited by RosesandThorns at 9:15 PM, April 13th (Monday)]