SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

IIRC, the 180 was discovered by a client of MWD's who finally gave up on R. She developed her technique to self-motivate herself to detach. She was surprised to find out that it drew her H back.

The 180 is not a technique for manipulating an unremorseful WS into R. It's a technique to help a BS find the strength to D an unremorseful WS.

I urge you to use the 180 to achieve the goals it's designed to achieve.

You might also switch from the original 180 doc, which is filled with internal contradictions IIRC, to the simplified 180 - https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=598080.

*****

You're less than 3 days out. You have plenty of time to decide what you want. My guess is that, all other things being equal, the less pressure you put on yourself to decide, the faster you'll figure out what you want.

For now, just survive.

Drink lots of water, no drugs, eat as healthily as possible, get as much sleep as is healthy for you, move your body. Take care of your kids.

*****

Focus on you and on figuring out what you want. At this point, both D & R look possible.

You're focused on your W, as are most of us in the aftermath of d-day. But she's not the critical factor - you are. You can save yourself a lot of time and energy if you figure out what you want first.

She says she wants to grow old with you, and you're using energy to divine if she means it. If you don't want to grow old with her, you save a lot of energy.

And if you think you still do want to grow old with her, you're better off spending your energy now on figuring out your requirements for R than on trying to read her mind. You're better off finding and enhancing your own strengths than worrying about your WS.

What happens with your M depends on you and your W responding to each other. The more you know about what you want, and the more your actions maximize your likelihood of success, the better for you.

*****

Give up trying to control the outcome. Success now is surviving infidelity in a way that prepares you to thrive. D, R, taking time to gather more info, even attempting and failing R - all are M outcomes that can prepare you to thrive.

*****

Still, some things are obvious. You can tell your W truthfully that going to om will make R more difficult and D easier, even though she's free to go to him or not.

You can tell her that answering questions honestly will make R easier; lying by omission or commission will make D easier.

*****

I recommend reading in the Healing Library - a link is in the yellow box in the upper left of SI pages.

I also strongly recommend reading https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp?

This gives you a guide to the behavior of a remorseful WS.

*****

Have faith in yourself to heal. I know you don't know which way is up now, but make that one of the fixed points by which to get oriented.

That's not quite what I mean. I meant that she didn't want to describe the sex - I didn't want her to then either. I did ask and get as much as I could handle yesterday.

Understood. Some here need to know every single detail, while others don't.

I just sent my friend the email.

Good. During this horrendous experience you will find out who your real friends are.

yes, there is a shame involved.

It would be dishonest of me to say that I didn't feel the same in the beginning. But it gradually dawned on me that I did nothing wrong. You didn't either. The shame belongs only to the cheater.

The choice to reconcile or divorce is obviously your decision and yours alone. All we can do is guide you out of infidelity whatever that path may take.

[This message edited by Mr. Kite at 12:37 PM, March 15th (Sunday)]

Listen at this point you have absolutely NOTHING to work with, your WW is NOT remorseful at all and refuses to give up her boyfriend. We've literally seen cases like yours play out THOUSANDS of times here and other forums, the collective wisdom of SI could help you go through this horrible situation, here are some of the basics:

1)EXPOSURE, nothing kills an A faster than FULL EXPOSURE with ALL family and close friends without warning, exposure typically kills the "beautiful and romantic" aspect of the A and replaces it with pure ugliness, embarrassment and shame, you did not cheat, she did.

2) Tell her she's got 10 seconds to cut it off with her boyfriend and send him an NC FOREVER text in front of you, short and to the point, no sweet goodbyes and/or last face to face convo for "closure" (a.k.a sex/one final fuck).

3) She needs to write a complete timeline of the A with all the details (where they met, places they went, did they have sex in your home/bed etc.), this typically also helps removing the romantic aspect of the A, it is/was "magical" while it remains a secret that only APs know about, also if you ultimately decide to give R a chance, you should know what you have to forgive.

4) She needs to offer full on demand access to her phone and all her electronic devices and passwords FOREVER, don't let her play the "it's my privacy" card, there's no privacy in a M between spouses other than toilet time, and if there ever was any, she lost it the second she decided to cheat.

5) She needs to get tested for STDs, full panel and show you the results, yes she's been playing russian roulette with your health.

6) She needs to sign a postnutial agreement in your favor in case she decides to cheat again in the future (she doesn't get alimony/spousal suport and doesn't touch your retirement).

7) She needs to go to IC to find out her "whys" and deal with that.

8) Have her read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and other books about infidelity.

If she refuses NC and any of the above just file for D and have her served without warning, D takes a long time and can be stopped before it's final if she comes around and ends her A, shows true remorse and follows through with the above mentioned basic requirements.

You are in the fight of your life and you need to take decisive action TODAY, take control of your life and protect yourself and your kids, those who act quick and take decisive action to get out of infidelity typically have the best results. Keep posting frequently, this is a crucial time.

I haven’t gotten caught up yet, but I need help badly. My daughter (12) has noticed. I had to take down some pictures, I’m not wearing my ring, we haven’t hung out like a family. I can’t do those things.

She’s asked & I said there were tough issues we were facing. I was vague, I didn’t even say that it was my wife’s fault or anything. At one point my wife said things will be ok and looked to me. I said I don’t know.

I can’t lie to my daughter. What the fuck do I say? This is destroying me.

Our marriage was not perfect. I'm responsible for 50% of that.

This gets said a lot on SI. Gently, I'm not sure it's true and increasingly I suspect that it's not.

Increasingly I suspect that most BS's were in good marriages (which are never perfect) and rarely in bad marriages, but that the bulk of any problems in these marriages -- once a BS has time to really reflect -- can probably be laid at the feet of the WS.

That's why the WS cheated, because they are broken people who are weak and who were dragging the marriage down by more than 50 percent. They were lazy about the relationship and I believe most of the time, a BS was contributing more than 50 percent of the good stuff propping up a lazy, weak partner.

A WS's adultery is an outgrowth of the same weaknesses and emotional vampirism they were bringing into the marriage in the first place. Something to think about.

I've been on SI for some time now. I've said the same thing time and again. Thumos said it very well and beenthereinco added to it. You were in the same marriage. Marriage issues are shared to some extent but definitely not equally.

Children are very astute. They can sense things, sense when things are off. They feel the vibes. Too often they may feel like they are the cause of the issues. They may feel that if they had been better the environment would be better. They may compensate or act out. It's real tough shit for them. They want their world to be safe and secure.

It is my opinion that if your daughter asks it is very concerning to her. Interesting that she came to you to ask and not her mother. A real concern would be if she somehow knew what was going on and has had the heavy terrible burden of keeping the secret.

Don't lie to your children is my opinion. They don't need details but they need the truth in an age appropriate way.

I'm sorry you are here but, given the circumstances, it is probably the best place you could have found. I believe this will be the greatest, lasting pain you will feel in your life. The pain I felt was so great I thought it would surely kill me. It didn't.

Your journey will be long and painful no matter if you R or D. A commonly held view is that it will take 2 to 5 years to heal. I don't know about the shorter end of that time frame because it sure took me longer.

Stay with us. We've all lived through this. Our aim is to get you out of adultery as quickly as possible and to help you avoid all the mistakes we made. You're going to make mistakes. You're human. You loved your WW and held her dear, cherished her. You will stumble. Stay with us and we'll try to help you pick yourself up and reboot.

Do Not Lie to your daughter.

Tell her in a age appropriate way what is going on.

Something like:

Mommy has a boyfriend. In a marriage there is not supposed to be any other boyfriends or girlfriends.

No lies, but no details either.

Also tell her that you and her mother love her always.

You may want to engage your WW to help tell your children together. It is a consequence of her behavior.

Remember, you have done nothing wrong, including not lying to your family and friends.

Your wife is betraying her children as well as you. Don't allow your wife to sugar coat (in her own mind) her behavior with her X boyfriend from high school.

Every time your wife dates the OM, she is putting herself above the needs of her children (betraying her children).

It's not intuitive but children have a tendency to blame themselves for divorce. Therefore, she needs to understand that it's nothing she did.

Your daughter also needs to learn that it's inappropriate for a married person (male or female) to act like they are single.

I agree that you should explain to your daughter in an age appropriate way. Keep it simple and leave out the sex ... say something like: "mom doesn't love me anymore and/or is dating someone she met years ago in high school".

Hang in there buddy.

Your wife is still in the fog.

First thing first. You must tell the OBS if there is one.

Get yourself a good counsellors to talk to. This is the toughest thing you’ll ever experience in life.

18 months is a long term affair. She led a double life. There is a lot of work to be done if you want to R. At this stage, she doesn’t appear to be R material.

This is so goddamn hard. I talk to her to much. I need to focus.

I had to get out of the house - I have an appointment with a lawyer, but I’m early.

I had told her that I was going to do what I need to do, but she had an appointment for therapy on Tuesday, so I relented somewhat and said that I would hold off on somethings until then.

I told her that we aren’t in a relationship and that we cannot begin to think about the possibility of reconciling as long as she’s still dating him. I told her that it’s ‘me’ time now, that I have to do what’s right for me - do I want to stay with her? What do I want to do?

She says that I text too much & she can’t think. It’s true - I gave her a day reprieve yesterday, but this morning I said I had clarity and that I have to figure out what’s best for me. I’m failing the 180, this is so hard.

After the lawyer I’m going to send out something to her family member. I’m not going to involve all of them yet - I can hardly think straight - but if the lawyer gives me blessing to do so (with regard to sending it to her trusted family member) I will.

I’m also going to physically call my friend today. I’ve informed him and touched base through text.

I hate being an atheist. I wish there was a cosmic do-gooder who would magically help me. This is so hard.

I try to maintain detachment in front of her, but some anger slips through:

I must stop this madness.

As far as the 180 goes, I’m not looking to manipulate with it. I see it as a way to get strength. Force myself to fake it so that I can actualize it. Honestly in my head I see it as a way to deaden my emotional reactions to her so I can get clarity. Take out the toxic so I can focus.

I don’t know if that makes sense.

You are doing fine! This is terribly difficult crap. We all fell down in one way or another. Do not beat yourself up. Keep moving forward. As long as your WW won’t go No Contact and drop him out of her life you have nothing to work with. You can tell her there is no room for three people in your M. Telling her you are taking care of yourself is good. Good luck.

Focus on you and on figuring out what you want. At this point, both D & R look possible

.

I’m trying - it’s hard. I have to stop talking to her. I have to 180 it.

You're focused on your W, as are most of us in the aftermath of d-day. But she's not the critical factor - you are. You can save yourself a lot of time and energy if you figure out what you want first.

I know. I go up and down. I’m good for a few hours and I crash.

She says she wants to grow old with you, and you're using energy to divine if she means it. If you don't want to grow old with her, you save a lot of energy.

That’s fucking true.

And if you think you still do want to grow old with her, you're better off spending your energy now on figuring out your requirements for R than on trying to read her mind. You're better off finding and enhancing your own strengths than worrying about your WS.

What happens with your M depends on you and your W responding to each other. The more you know about what you want, and the more your actions maximize your likelihood of success, the better for you.

We have to talk to respond and I spiral.

Give up trying to control the outcome. Success now is surviving infidelity in a way that prepares you to thrive. D, R, taking time to gather more info, even attempting and failing R - all are M outcomes that can prepare you to thrive.

How do I do this?

Still, some things are obvious. You can tell your W truthfully that going to om will make R more difficult and D easier, even though she's free to go to him or not.

She seems to understand that going to the OM is unacceptable. She’s trying to figure out if she can be happy with me in the future, but she sees us growing together. Those are, essentially, her words.

I don’t know if I can get through this week (figuratively), I don’t know about the future.

The thing I have to give up is my desire for her to take steps to reconcile. I don’t know if I want to reconcile - but somehow I have this feeling (?) that if she DID drop contact that it would be *real to her* what is at stake. I type this out realizing it’s beside the point and doesn’t matter - I need to be ‘who gives a shit, what do I want?’

I know this. My monkey brain doesn’t. FUCK.

You can tell her that answering questions honestly will make R easier; lying by omission or commission will make D easier.

I don’t have any questions right now. I might and I’ll keep this in mind.

Thank you.

I can’t lie to my daughter. What the fuck do I say? This is destroying me.

Imagine you daughter facing the same situation in 12 years from now. How would you want her to handle it? You are a role model for her. Tell her the truth. Show her that, despite the hurt, one has to stand his ground, stay firm, establish what are the conditions for R if that’s what you want, or how to D gracefully if that what you want.

Being a role model for your child might help you motivate yourself to handle this the best possible way.

You may have failed the 180 yesterday, but today is a new day One step at a time...

Post often

Don't lie to your children (not even by omission), tell them the truth, something like "mommy has a boyfriend and that's unacceptable to me". Go ahead and EXPOSE to EVERYONE TODAY ! go back and read my previous post, right now you're displaying weakness by not acting and helping her hide her A, FULL EXPOSURE with all family and close friends is the best thing you can do TODAY, don't forget to name POSOM when you do it.

She seems to understand that going to the OM is unacceptable. She’s trying to figure out if she can be happy with me in the future, but she sees us growing together. Those are, essentially, her words.

You seem to think she is rationalizing towards making a choice. She isn’t! For one, she has no respect for you as a man. She might say she does, but she doesn’t. If she did have respect for you, she would not be having sex with another man. She desires him, she ‘wants’ him, in her mind he is the man, the prize, you are more of a friend, a provider, her comfort zone. She wants her comfort zone cake, and she wants her prize man for sex. It’s totally fucked up, but this is her mindset. I know it’s awful, I know it hurts, but unfortunately this is the reality, and it needs you to dig deep and find the fortitude to deal with it head on and blow up her fantasy, show it for the seedy, cruel, selfish bullshit that it is. Per my previous post to you, make the choice for her, take control, command respect. If you don’t, next will come her rug sweeping, next she will blame you for her choices to cheat. If you think your head is in a spin now, when those things happen you will become even more confused.

We’ve all been through it, every situation has its nuances, but what’s characteristically predictable is the cheater mindset - selfishness, entitlement, not taking responsibility, blaming. There’s only one effective way to deal with it and that is to control what you can, expose the affair and limit her choices. At this time remove yourself from being a choice for her as she does not deserve you as a choice. I know it seems counterintuitive, that you love her and just want things back the way they once were, but that marriage as it was is dead, she has killed it by her choices. If there is to be a future marriage between you, she has a tremendous amount of work to do, but even then we (you, me, everyone!) can only truly love a partner we respect, and respect is established by positive actions.

I'm so srry you are here, but glad you found us. This site has been a life saver for me, literally

I was in the same situation as your daughter once, except it was my dad who was cheating. I found out before my mom, at age 12. Kids know. We pick up on emotions and feelings in our family, we know when something is off. I was old enough to know that my dad was fucking someone else. I was old enough to understand that his actions represented a totally shitty, heartless, selfish And unfatherly/husbandly act.

I felt like hell. I hated what my dad did to Mom and our family. I never trusted him again. I am an adult now... I don't hate him any longer but I don't like or particularly love or care for him any longer. He's tried to reconcile recently.... But that ship has long sailed for me

Listen, this is a horrible situation for your daughter. She knows there's something horribly wrong and is old enough to know the truth. Now she has a dad who is lying to her...just to protect her. She deserves to know. She's old enough to make her own decisions regarding the relationship with her mom. Besides, her mom did this to her too.... Abandoning the marriage is abandonment of the children too as an affair is a selfish act.

Your duaghter needs you now. She needs the truth. This is my twelve year old self begging you to tell her what she already knows. Your honesty will help her immensely in the long run

[This message edited by Lowlow at 11:09 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]

In LE we have an expression called clanging door therapy. Nothing will get the attention of a petty criminal than a week or so in the clink. In other words, there are consequences to what you do. So far other than being upset and somewhat fearful of what you may do, there seem to be no consequences for you WW. So predictably, she is doing what all cheats do at first. Minimizing, holding back info, setting terms of engagement, pretending to the kids etc. oh and still setting up her next liaison with om.

So for you, follow what Sisoon says.

For her, expose, hand her D papers, cut her off emotionally, stop reasoning with her, gently bring the kids up to speed that things are going to be different but better. Ask her to move out. She can stay by the casino! Not sure if she is working, but if not tell her to get her used ass to work to start contributing to the dissolution process. If she has had the time to lean for the last 18 months, then she has time to clean.

One of 2 things will happen. Either she will get it and start doing the work of fixing this, or she will go to om. Either way, you are out of her toxic manipulation.

As to your thoughts about shame. Shame involves taking responsibility. You are not responsible and have no reason to feel ashamed. You have been victimized.

As of her, she needs a good dose of accepting responsibility. If she is salvageable it is a needed first step.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 11:36 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]

Not so by the way ... the anguish you feel and write about is normal. You've just been betrayed by the one person you thought would always look out for you. That's an event that's bound to bring on anguish.

Also, I think you're doing great for being less than 4 days out. Recovery is not a sprint; it takes longer than anyone wants it to take. As awful as you feel, you've found SI, and you started talking to lawyers. (It took me weeks just to think that maybe there were Internet forums about recovering from infidelity.)

Again, have faith in yourself to heal ... and take comfort in the fact that you've started on your healing path already.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:43 PM, January 4th (Saturday)]

Consider seeing your doctor and tell him your story. He can help with anxiety and sleep loss.

Dealing with this mess isn't a linear 10 step program.

Don't be harsh on yourself with respect to not being able to maintain/implement a hard 180.

View yourself as a work in progress - fighting your way out of infidelity. It's messy and slippery and you'll make mistakes - just keep moving.