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Betrayed Menz Thread - Part 34

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Unhinged posted 11/26/2020 23:45 PM

I hope all of you fine gentlemen had a great thanksgiving. Thanks for being here.

gr8ful posted 11/27/2020 20:24 PM

Just curious why there are 34 parts to the Betrayed Menz thread but only 4 for Betrayed Womenz. Has the female thread reset the odometer?

As a male, my guess would be that men would be less talkative than women so it surprises me if itís truly 34 to 4....

HoldingTogether posted 11/27/2020 23:04 PM

The Betrayed Menís thread has been around for more than a decade. The Betrayed Womenís thread is relatively new.

I imagine they will catch up in due time.

WearingTheHorns posted 11/30/2020 00:00 AM

Just wanted to pop in and say hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. For this who are new, sorry you're here, but glad you found this place. You can get more help than you thought possible from some very wise minds here.
I had a suspicion that was bothering me a couple of weeks ago that was nothing. Now I've put together that it almost to the date of D-Day (which I had just hit the 8 year anti-versary of) it makes a little more sense that it bothered me in the first place. This shit just never fucking ends does it?

steadychevy posted 11/30/2020 06:10 AM

You're right, WTH. I recently started a thread in General about something similar and wondering if I was relapsing. I wasn't but I didn't know what the stimulus was. Someone else posted about the same thing at the same time about returning triggers.

Glad it was nothing for you and explainable. It irritates me that I even have to figure it out, though. It irritates me that there will very likely be a repeat in the future which I will need to deal with. As time passes and work is done the effect of these hits is very much reduced.

LosferWords posted 11/30/2020 19:30 PM

Good to "see" you, WTH. Shit never ends, but what the shit, right? I just hit my 10 year antiversary. Hope you are well, sir.

gr8ful - For some of us fellas, this is THE ONLY safe place to talk to other dudes who have been through the shitiest fucking shit in the history of shitty fucking shit. I only fucking came here to learn how to cuss properly from HoldingTogether. That fucker can still fucking cuss better than I fucking can.

WearingTheHorns posted 12/1/2020 06:55 AM

Good "seeing" you too Losfer. I think apart from the obvious, the thing that drives me the most crazy is being this far out and this shit still popping to mind at least once a day. Length and intensity varies, but at least once a day. Sometimes it's aggravating, others it can put me into a funk for a while. Like my tinnitus it's the "gift" that just keeps on giving.

Agreed about HT. He holds the record for fucking fucks with no fucks actually being fucking given.

[This message edited by WearingTheHorns at 6:56 AM, December 1st (Tuesday)]

LosferWords posted 12/1/2020 21:22 PM

WTH. I hear you, man. Pops in my head several times a day at 10 years out. I'd give you advice if I had it. Sometimes I say to myself, "It is what it is.", but I get tired of that phrase. I had to run upstairs and look out the window today and say, "I'm okay." Whatever it takes. I'm on hour 11 of a 17 hour work day, and I've had to deal with some major bullshit today. To the point where I just want to freaking box with a person that I work with. I reframe it and think, "I've set myself up good, to be in a good job that pays decent." Reframing is good, as long as you don't bullshit yourself like I did for so many years.

Still waiting for HT to come back with a solid bunch of f-bombs, and then maybe Tred piping in, and WAL. Eh. I'm going to shut up before I get too sentimental about this fucking Menz thread.

tbkjcn posted 12/18/2020 19:52 PM

OK, I have a dilemma, and need opinions.
I have not been exactly gruntled in my job this year. Mostly the part about the C-levels still quarantining at home the last almost 10 months, while the rest of us are expected to be in the office almost daily and conduct business as usual since mid-May. There's also the 70-mile round-trip commute. And the fact that we're losing the fully-paid insurance at the end of the year. Both have been weighing on my mind the last several months.

So, to the dilemma. It came to my attention that the current owners of my former workplace (where I worked from home for 15 years) are advertising for a position. These would be the folks who ostensibly declared my position redundant 3 years ago. Although I am fairly certain that my boss at the time was the one who made sure my name was on that list. The job is in network architecture, one step sideways (more like diagonal) and half a step down from where I am now.

One of my former team members who I mentored over 10 years still reaches out to me for advice on problems from time to time. He tells me that the new overlords are pretty good and easy to get along with, and have adopted a "all possible employees work remotely whenever possible. Forever" policy. I talked to him about the posting and of course he's excited about having me back, even if it isn't in the same department. Without my knowledge he's reached out to that team and made some inquires that were apparently returned positively. "Oh yeah, I remember him, great guy, knew his stuff. If he applies I'll keep an eye out for it." kind of thing supposedly. No idea yet of course, but there's probably be something of a pay cut, and I doubt I could get them to re-instate my 15 years service. On the other hand, I'm going to be paying for insurance anyway, and there's the 70 miles a day commute. I always said that the paid-for insurance canceled out the gas and miles on the car... In two weeks I will have to pay for both.

Should I apply? Given that I'd be going back to someplace that supposedly didn't want me? Am I reading too much into how my former team member portrayed their reaction? I'd be going back into a much larger national company, which I sort of miss, from a smaller, regional company (where I have more freedom).

I'm not a big fan of risk or change..... But I find myself wanting to go back......

[This message edited by tbkjcn at 7:55 PM, December 18th (Friday)]

sisoon posted 12/19/2020 16:03 PM

I hate to shock you, but I'm going to ask: 'What do you want?'

A step backwards is generally not a recommended career move. So what do you want out of your career now? Will the job allow you to stay current and employable for the necessary future, assuming you can get past age discrimination?

Taking a pay cut is generally not a recommended career move. OTOH, as you know, there's salary and there's salary, benefits, and costs of doing the job. Even with my Prius (or with full EV) 70 miles a day of commuting has some big costs in dollars (forget about time). The IRS mileage rate for 2021 is $0.575/mile - $40/day for 70 miles.

What is the value of the other benefits?

Is this job what you want to do? Will it prepare for what you want to do in 5 years? 10? How important is your new hobby? If you can work from home, that's got to be at least 2 hours a day you get back, right?

Where's the boss who dumped you?

If you have to take a pay cut, they might very well be willing to give you your seniority back.

You've never been happy in this job. You're a good guy (as a person), and you come across as very competent.

Yeah, change is risky, but it could provide some great benefits for you. If this isn't the right opportunity for you, what is?

tbkjcn posted 12/20/2020 10:18 AM

Lots of questions, Sisoon. But that's what you do, makes me think, examine my position and motivations.

I should have had more detail I guess, but I'd had a couple Friday night....

It's not exactly a step backwards, the opportunity is in network architecture, which means that I'd be part of the group that tells my group what to do... I'd be evaluating new hardware, technologies, upgrades, whatever, and making the plans on how to integrate it into the network and sending designs and procedures over to network engineering (where I am now) to implement. I wouldn't be a team leader anymore, though. Hence the "kinda" not a step backwards. I'd be moving into a middle job in a department that "oversees" the team I lead today.

Assuming I get past the "age" thing, yes I think it makes me more employable. It would give me more options in other organizations if it didn't work out in the long run.

In 10 years, I hope to be thinking real hard about keeping my head down and finishing the last year until I retire So far as the job I want to do, I was always disappointed that I wasn't chosen for that team when it was formed years back, when my east coast counterpart was. I think I could be happy there. I miss the telco world and the fun toys there.

So far as the old boss, well, he got the ax about two months after I did. He did spend the next six months as a consultant, so he could line his pocket while they pumped his brain, but he's been long gone, as is most of the toxic elitist attitude that pervaded the last 5 years I worked there. The new owners are based about 120 miles from where I live and they nipped that right in the bud. There were too many times I was out at the east coast office and more or less told to sit in the corner and not track cow shit on anything. Well, they're either gone or told they don't run the show anymore. I still maintain contact with several folks that I used to work with and they all pretty much say the new management and their new co-workers are pretty good.

I wouldn't say I was "never" happy in this job. I did go in with some misgivings, but the first year was pretty good. But that was the honeymoon phase. The second year I figured I was just learning to fit into a smaller organization and the chaos and lack of planning were more my perception, coming from a very large corporate environment that didn't make a move with reams of paper. The last year, well, yeah, my gruntled-ness has been pretty low. Partly for the above. Partly because I'm getting really tired of spending an hour in the car every morning and evening. And partly because of their Covid (lack of) response. I had to go take a Covid test last Sunday because Friday and Saturday I was feeling sick with a fever. it was negative thank goodness, but Tuesday morning I had to be right back in the office with customer meetings, business as usual. I'd be back to working from home full time with very occasional trips somewhere (once travel resumes, right now I'm told there is no travel unless it's an exceptional life or death emergency and only after alternatives are exhausted).

The right opportunity for me? Maybe. *I* think so, but there's a voice in my head that I'm only considering this because I feel not happy in my current job. You know, "the grass is always greener".

sisoon posted 12/20/2020 11:22 AM

I was always disappointed that I wasn't chosen for that team when it was formed years back....

*I* think so, but there's a voice in my head that I'm only considering this because I feel not happy in my current job.
Tough decision. You've slept on it. What do you think today? Ideally, one of the 2 ideas is stringer, and the other is weaker.

steadychevy posted 12/23/2020 07:11 AM

tbkjcn, have you made a decision yet.

My input may not be useful to you and if it isn't just discard. I like change. It invigorated me. I used to conscientiously make change in some way every five years or so. I'd get bored if I didn't.

It sounds like the current position you're in is wearing on you. I think that being in a position like that isn't good for one's health or satisfaction.

I did the 45 minute commute one way for 3 years (one of those deliberate changes that involved a promotion). It wasn't fun especially in Alberta blizzards. Anyway, that commute is wearing on you and expensive with no offsetting benefit in the near future.

Would there be a downside to looking into going back to your old company? If you did could re-instatement of your seniority be a negotiating item? I don't know what that might involve other than more vacation time but probably not corporate pension. Have you done a pro and con analysis?

Good luck with going through the process and making the decision. Merry Christmas.

steadychevy posted 12/25/2020 09:19 AM

Merry Christmas to those survivors and thrivers who celebrate it. For all, I hope you have a peaceful and enjoyable time.

sisoon posted 12/25/2020 11:38 AM


Merry Christmas, all.

tbkjcn posted 12/25/2020 15:25 PM

You've slept on it.

I've slept on it for a couple days.

It sounds like the current position you're in is wearing on you.

It is. For the first year I figured I was just adjusting from going to a large, bureaucratic organization to a small operation of less than 25 people. I thought the chaos and lack of "planning" was just me being used to nothing happening with stacks of paperwork generated by a week of conference calls. The last twelve month, no, it really is chaos from lack of planning. Especially the last 10 months. Literally everything is a drop everything, all hands on deck, A#1 top priority red alert.
Anyway, that commute is wearing on you and expensive

That's the other factor. After three years and about 80,000 miles on my car, yeah, the hour to and hour from work every day is getting to be a drag. I could move, but this house is almost paid for. Only a few more years left on the mortgage, and I don't feel like moving.

Would there be a downside to looking into going back to your old company?

The downside would be that I'm moving from a management position to a senior-but-not-management position in a department that outranks the equivalent job at this organization. I'd be moving from a small company back to a large, nationwide company. I don't necessarily see that as a downside though. I find myself missing some aspects of that. The upside is that I would probably most likely be back to working from home and not commuting an hour each way. I'd be working with some people that I got along with well.

What do you think today?

have you made a decision yet.

What pretty much made up my mind was the CEO blew through the office Wednesday late afternoon on one of his once or twice a weeks trips into the office. He usually waits until after most people have gone home. He came early so he could chew me out on one of the top-priority red-alert projects being behind schedule. Partially due to an outside consultant, but he didn't want to hear it.

I finished the application process late last night.

We'll see if they call me. My former team-mate who talked to someone in the group I'm applying to says that person (who isn't the decision-maker, but has influence) says "he'll be keeping an eye out" for it. We'll see. I actually had a dream last night about going into the office and telling the CEO that I'm done.

I'll throw in my Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays too. I hope everyone is having a pleasant day and that you receive lots of what you want.

One of my friends in Germany (who's family has been hiding out at their "cabin" in Finland the last couple months) video-called me last night and their 8 year old son serenaded me with a very nice guitar rendition of "Little Drummer Boy" complete with lyrics in memorized English, which was awesome. Of course, that was after he and his little brother had to show me everything that they got for Christmas, and tell me all about it. It was adorable.....

tbkjcn posted 12/29/2020 21:22 PM

So, not sure what to make of this. I finished the online application process over the Christmas weekend, while fighting Thursday, Friday and half of Saturday with a stubbornly blocked kitchen sink drain. I submitted it Friday afternoon. Monday morning before lunch, I started getting calls from former co-workers (that I didn't list as references) there that I still keep in touch with that early Monday morning they started getting calls from high-up people asking if they knew me and what they thought and why had I left ( it wasn't my choice). Not sure what to think right now. I haven't heard anything besides that, but it seems to me that it's maybe positive? I mean if they were thinking "man, he's got some balls to be applying here" they'd prolly have passed it around the office a couple times for laughs then into the shredder, right?

I'm nervous. Also excited at the prospect of getting out of here...

[This message edited by tbkjcn at 9:23 PM, December 29th (Tuesday)]

Tred posted 12/29/2020 22:06 PM

tbkjcn -

Sounds like standard protocol to me. In my position where I work, I've been asked about resumes of ex employees wanting to return, and as I don't know everything about everyone who ever worked at the company I'll broaden the net to make sure I have a complete picture. I don't want to talk to the one person who didn't like the ex employee and stop there, if you know what I'm saying. Now, if any of them contact you and are like "dude, you outta your mind?" type queries it might be time to be concerned.

And what the hell are you putting down your sink?

tbkjcn posted 12/30/2020 07:45 AM

and as I don't know everything about everyone who ever worked at the company I'll broaden the net

I get it. And I'm sure that there are probably more who've been contacted than the three who reached out to me (two of whom knew about my plans to apply).

I don't want to talk to the one person who didn't like the ex employee and stop there

Fortunately for me, many of those folks got swept up in later rounds of layoffs over the 6 months after I got it. The supervisor who made sure my name was on the initial list got it himself in the second round. So I'm not terribly worried about folks there giving me a bad reference. Quite the opposite I think. One guy that I used to work closely with said he told the manager who called him, "...and if you don't want him, send the resume to my boss, because we'll snap him up for our group."

And yes, I know that it's only been 48 hours .... but the waiting is killing me

And what the hell are you putting down your sink?

I know what the problem is, and one of these days I will actually fix the problem instead of treating the symptom once a year or so. The kitchen drain is one of several half-assed DIY projects I found from the previous owner after I moved in here, and runs a total of about 20 feet where it ties into the line in the basement coming from the washing machine and sink down there, about 2 feet from the main stack. About 12 feet of that is horizontal along the basement ceiling. There just isn't enough slope in the line I think, plus it looks like there's a couple spots where the PVC drain line is bowed down, and the crap that makes it past the sink strainer builds up over time. especially on those times where there isn't enough water coming down to flush it all the way to the main line. This has happened three times now and each time I say OK, that's it I'm tearing that all out and doing it over. Then it unblocks and I tell myself whew that's over now, I can fix it right later.....

sisoon posted 12/30/2020 10:48 AM

Especially over the holidays, stuff takes time. Man, I remember finding the perfect job, with the perfect boss and boss's boss a little before Thanksgiving. The wait seemed endless, but it did actually end.

I say this because it may be relevant to you. Checking with former co-workers is a positive sign. Getting positive feedback from former co-workers is a very positive sign.

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