SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

When do I get the bill for this website? I feel like I'm taking so much and not giving much in return other than my story. Thank you all again. My WS will be home soon although I'm tempted to just go ahead to bed. Not sure there's much fight in this dog tonight. She's off tomorrow so hopefully things will progress. I'm going to back off to more of a 180 to see if she is going to put in any effort. My glimpse of hope from last night is already gone. I need to get her out of the fog. She could always surprise me and be taking action, but I'm not holding my breath. I also plan to reach out to the OBS again tomorrow, not just for info on the story, but because she's a good person who doesn't have nearly the support I do.

annanew

For some reason I foresee a relapse in your WW's future where she takes up communication with the AP again. Be really careful about trusting too soon.

I had the same impression, it just took too long for her to commit to NC. You need to get a VAR in the car and keep OBS as an ally. DO NOT give up your sources of info!

This ^^^ Bahama.

I'd stake a large sum of money she will have contact with him again, whether you find out or not. Consider it like a drug addict, and he's her drug. The fact that she was so hesitant in her choice wreaks of damage control, and it's definitely not remorse. Regret maybe, but not remorse, which means your well being is not on her list of concerns right now, any more than being her provider. She got on you about the bank accounts straight away. That's pretty telling as well. You are handling this well, but there is no way you can see the big picture when you are trapped inside of this nightmare. The view from out here looks like damage control. If she does continue with the POSOM you can bet she will apply everything you have told her to make sure she doesn't get caught again.

Again...the surest way out of the Fog is via D papers.

Nothing says wake the F up like a set of D papers with blue ink in the signature block and a dollar amount for spousal/child support.

I know it's tempting to want to R...and that pull is hard to fight...you want it back...but you are about to give up the power and fall into a R trap, thinking the woman you love is standing there.

Never forget who she showed you in the A. Never forget who she is. That's the person you are dealing with.

Treat her how she is, not how you see her in your mind.

D papers are power over your future.

It costs money...money well spent. You can turn them off down the road if she is R material.

As it stands, she still has the illusion of power and control over the situation.

She hasn't shown remorse. She hasn't done a timeline. The NC thing is bull right now...she is absolutely in contact and you know it. She is half heatedly playing games.

You deserve better.

D papers...

You have done great so far, however DO NOT for a second think she's remorseful, she just regrets getting caught and is sad because you have outed her dirty A and shown her family she's a cheater and a liar, she's still trying to blameshift, and yes she most likely has contacted OM since Dday, she probably did it from work, her initial reluctance to end the A and NC points to that, her "I don't know what to do" answer to her own husband after being caught having an A speaks volumes, if she was desperate to save the M, she would have ended it the very second you confronted and given you an answer right away and blocked him from any form of communication, she still has not done any of it, do NOT believe a single word she says and WATCH her actions very closely, get the VARs in place (one in her car under the seat along with a GPS).

I told her I didn't mind her pursuing her hobby, she just can't do it with her AP anymore.

Her M is in life support and I don't think she needs to focus on ANYTHING ELSE at this point, she needs to focus 100% at saving her M, I would even ask her to take a leave of absence from work (at least for a couple of weeks) and start IC immediately with a counselor that specializes on infidelity. Plus you don't want her to have an excuse to be running into OM during training or at some of the sport related events, in addition to that the hobby will just be a constant reminder of her AP, I would just tell her to cancel ALL sports/training events for now and focus on the M and to heal you, also DEMAND she gets tested for STD (this is a must) and also talk to an attorney and demand she signs a postnup in your favor in case she cheats again, remember she's not the girl you married anymore, she's now a proven cheater. Make sure you let her know this will take years to overcome with absolutely no guarantees.

Hi Bahama, sorry you had reason to join us, but glad you found us. This is my first comment on your thread, and I think you are doing very well so far.

I would like to reinforce what many others are saying. Your WW is not remorseful (yet) and may never be. Even WWs that are eventually remorseful, don't usually start out that way. So, Do. Not. Rush. R. That is a critical mistake that can happen at this point, and I've seen it several times in my 2+ years reading here.

Take the steps you need to protect yourself and your kids (e.g., have a legal consult to learn your options), and don't be too shy about it. Your WW must completely understand what she stands to lose due to her choices, and you must understand what your options are to make the best choices for yourself and your girls.

You're doing well so far. Keep moving out of infidelity (with or without your WW)!

It’s beyond critical that you don’t let protecting yourself via legal measures drop. You have absolutely no assurance that she is not communicating with him any longer (though having the OBS as an ally is the #1 weapon in the proverbial arsenal).

Talk to the lawyer. Her getting served is not only going to protect you short-term, it’s about the only tool that you have to wake her up.

Being served doesn’t mean that a divorce will happen, it just means that it can happen.

....also let her know that she will be getting a poly and that one of the questions is if she’s had contact with him since d-day.

Did you ever confirm if that was him contacting her in the car after you initially exposed to the OBS?

Bahama,

Been listening for awhile, but am a first time caller.

First of all, having been through this (but divorced), I believe you’ve received great input above.

On the other hand, and in my opinion, you need to think beyond the black and white deliver her with divorce papers statements made above. I’m not saying that such action won’t push her back to you (it probably will). What I’m asking you to think about is whether that is what you truly want.

Based on the limited information you’ve conveyed thus far (and I understand that you can only convey a little bit of your relationship with your wife via this forum, or only want to convey a small amount of information for privacy purposes), it appears to me that your priorities are, from most to least important, are: 1) your marriage; 2) your children; 3) job (which in your case is SAHM father); and 4) triathlons or exercise.

On the other hand, based on what I can discern based upon your writings, your wife’s priorities, from most to least important, seem to me, to be: 1) triathlons or exercise; 2) job as a medical provider; 3) marriage; and 4) kids.

Maybe my overall prioritizing is incorrect for for both you, and your wife. Nevertheless, based on what you’ve written so far (including her reactions), I at least suspect that my ranking of your top two priorities, and her top two priorities, as well, are correct. Seeing this, I personally think she needs to repriotitize her liffe, so that her two greatest concerns are her relationship with you, closely followed by her relationship with her children.

So, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t serve her with divorce papers, only you consider whether doing so wil ultimately push her to reprioritize her life so that you are number one, and closely followed by her relationship with her children.

If she’s unwilling, or highly unlikely, to grow up, and place you and her children as the highest two priorities in her life, then serve her. You have no loss.

On the other hand, if she is willling to reprioritize her life with you, and her children, as the two greatest priorities in her life, then you may want to wait serving her with papers. However, if you give her a chance to reprioritze her life, and after a few months she fails to do so, then file away, and move on with your life. You deserve to be treated as the Uber one priority in your spouse’s life, and your children to be a close second.

Good luck, sir!

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:13 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

Bahama

It’s sad that we are all here in this website providing support to each other under these circumstances.

Interesting to see how predictable cheaters can be. And how right so many are when providing advice.

You are doing a great job despite the pain and trauma you face.

Bahama,

This post might be a bit difficult to read at the beginning.

My understanding of your WW behavior (all speculation of course) was:

1- panic, we got discovered

2- he’s (bahama) dumping me, he’s exposing me and I’m losing my BF, more panic, I will lose everything and be alone, shamed by everyone!!! it’s all his (bahama) fault!

3- Maybe I can keep my family, I’ll be nice to him

4- NC with my BF? Do I have to? I love him, it’s so hard. I want my family but I want my rainbows and unicorns too.

5- (very speculative) ok I’ll delete all my apps but I’ll let my rainbow unicorn BF know first, we need to talk a little bit more when this settles.

R is still possible but, like the others said, she’s not there yet. There’s a lot of stories here and the WS that wake up are usually more like “OMG what did I do? I’m actually breaking my marriage for this POS (the AP)? What is wrong with me? I’ll do everything to save the M! You name it! NC ? Well yeah, timeline? There you go. Open electronic policy? Take my phone! Etc...”

I hope your WW will get to that point. But we are all different. Some WS get there right away, some take time and some, never.

I kind of wonder if Ladubugmaam is your OBS...

I'm going to back off to more of a 180 to see if she is going to put in any effort. My glimpse of hope from last night is already gone. I need to get her out of the fog.

We unfortunately can offer advice here based only on what you post, and I realize there are probably millions of thoughts and emotions within you that don't get expressed here. However, based on what you post, my opinion is that you are bluffing, and that at some point she's going to figure it out.

The point of SI is to get you out of infidelity. Your actions thus far suggest a gambit that you hope will coerce her to end her A and start trying R with you. Gently, this cannot possibly work. Further, it is is diametrically the opposite purpose of tools like The 180.

You cannot compel any particular result from her. You can only control you. The 180 is a tool to create psychological space so that you can clear your head and figure out what you want, for you. You have to find your truth, which I assume is that you will not continue to be married to her if she is in love with and/or carrying on an affair with another man. You have to be willing to give up your marriage if you want a chance to win it back.

Your messaging to her, so far, has been repeated statements of: "I want you to do X".

What your messaging should be is: "You are free to continue seeing POSOM as much and as often and as sexually as you would like, but not as my wife. Please let me know your desires on this so I can plan my life accordingly. I will not share you. You have been cheating and lying and I will not stay with you under those conditions. If you wish to stop these things and attempt R with me, let me know. I will listen, and if you are offering to do the things that will make me feel safe with you, I might consider R."

As to STD, make it clear to her that there will be no sex until she comes to you with a clean STD test, and a follow-up at least six months after the last time she had sex with the asshole.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:37 AM, February 28th (Thursday)]

Good advice from Butforthegrace and it’s what I’ve been trying to say as well.

You can’t control what she does. You’ve told her what you need, now start taking the steps to help you heal.

Do you have an IC yet? If not work on finding one that specializes in Infidelity.

Talk to the lawyer again. Have you narrowed down the one you want.

I’m going to send you a list to your PM of things BS’s have posted here that they’ve said they need their WS to do in order to heal and have a chance at R. Check your PMs for it.

Finally if you do talk today, ask her what steps she’s taken to repair the damage she’s done.

If she says she doesn’t know what to do, tell her she’s a smart woman, that there are hundreds of books on the matter, and other resources and she needs to research and figure it out, that you won’t hold her hand thru this, it has to come from her because she wants a relationship with you, not out of a sense of duty.

Tell her she’s free to go be with the POS, but if that’s what she wants, you won’t be waiting around.

Finally give her a Target date (Sunday?) to present you a written timeline of her affair and also (and this is important) the first plan of the steps she will take to repair the damage she has done and help you heal from the emotional injury she has caused you.

That is what “the work” looks like. Ask for what you need. Don’t expect to get it. Take steps to heal yourself and get out of her infidelity. If she wants to come with you, that will be her decision. Your priority is you and the girls. She has to make her own choices. So far they’ve only been bad ones.

Keep control. You’re doing great.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:33 AM, February 28th (Thursday)]

Good advice from butforgrace and stevesn.

I'd like to add that nothing in this message to her is intended to punish her. It's intended to protect you.

Oh and last thought for this morning.

A timeline is not just a list of places and dates they had sex.

It is a lot more.

It’s a detailed description of the sexual contact they had. Who touches what, you had what release. (Eg “the third time we had sex was in his car behind the gym. I sucked on his d*ck til he finished and then he fingered me til I came”)

It’s also a list of things she was thinking when these encounters occurred. (Eg “ the first time he touched my breast I melted and felt like no one else existed but me and him”).

It’s a list of what she was feeling (“when he reached into my pants the first time, I felt concurrently an electric shock like fireworks and simultaneously that I was about to puke because I knew for sure I had just broken my vows”)

It’s a list of what she thought about you and the girls at different points of the affair. (“The day we argued over laundry, I thought I work hard for my family and I deserve more than I’m getting from bahama. I felt what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him. And it actually makes me more relaxed and a better mother. “. <— what bullshit)

Sorry to be so graphic, but what they did is graphic and ugly. Let’s not use euphemisms to make it sound prettier.

Bahama, the reason you make her write everything is twofold.

First to make her confront what she’s done. Putting it all down on paper in one place makes it real what she’s done. It makes her have to realize that right now, she’s not a good person.

The second is it takes the specialness out of what they’ve done. It’s no longer a secret between them. Actually the more people that know (you, the OBS, perhaps her sister) the less special it is.

If she won’t do even this first step for you, she has little chance at being someone who can repair what she has damaged so greatly.

If she’s going to be a candidate for remorse, she needs to see the AP, not as a missed opportunity for love, but absolutely as the co-conspirator that helped her destroy her family and harm the man and children she loves.

Until she gets to that point, there will be no chance for R.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:15 AM, February 28th (Thursday)]

Drumstick said

On the other hand, and in my opinion, you need to think beyond the black and white deliver her with divorce papers statements made above. I’m not saying that such action won’t push her back to you (it probably will). What I’m asking you to think about is whether that is what you truly want.

Based on the limited information you’ve conveyed thus far (and I understand that you can only convey a little bit of your relationship with your wife via this forum, or only want to convey a small amount of information for privacy purposes), it appears to me that your priorities are, from most to least important, are: 1) your marriage; 2) your children; 3) job (which in your case is SAHM father); and 4) triathlons or exercise.

These priorities miss the big picture. Our hero’s ONLY two jobs right now are:

1. Take care of the kids

2. Get out of Infidelity

He is not out of Infidelity. Until (if) the wife is in True Remorse than all of life’s priorities are meaningless. They mean nothing without a safe partner.

First, Bahama, there's no bill. Right now the intent is to assist you in getting out of adultery one way or another. Some time in the future you may be able to "pay it forward". Everyone whose been here for a while and responding to posts is doing just that. I sure know what you mean, though, about seemingly getting so much without giving much.

It's been suggested that you might delay filing for D. I think you should file. Filing, where I live, just registers intent to D. Filing means the other spouse (WS) will be served with the intent. There's a lot more that happens after that and a lot more paper work before an actual legal D happens. I'm 13 months since filing and don't yet have an agreement on splitting marital assets and a partnership.

Filing, IMO, indicates seriousness of the situation. Real remorse, real continuous effort and action, doing the right thing could end the D proceedings and have R attempted. But it doesn't have to. It's your decision whether the adultery is a dealbreaker or not. Even if the adultery isn't a dealbreaker by itself actions following DDay could be.

I also think it's better to hold the reins in this situation. I'd rather file than have the WS file first. Your WS has been in control, secretly, in your marriage. IMO you need to regain a position of strength and filing helps provide that.

Again best wishes, strength of mind and clarity of thought as you proceed through this shit storm.

As to whether to file D now, or later, keep in mind that D is a very slow process. Like a year or more. There are many steps along the way where the courts try to make you work things out amicably, and of course since you are living in the same house you can talk and interact at any time. You can change your mind and dismiss the case at any time. But it does create a defined path out of limbo. Limbo is the worst place for a BH to find himself.

As to the timeline, there are two aspects often mentioned here. First, she has been sneaking and lying to carry on the A. Lying about it to you is her default. Giving you a detailed timeline might be the first authentic, honest act she takes with you in connection with the A.

Second, the A creates an alternate intimate universe between her and her AP. In many ways, she is more intimate with the AP than with you, because she has been lying and sneaking with you, presenting a false version of herself to you, whereas she has shared her inner thoughts with the POSOM. This chunk of intimacy is something she stole from the marriage. It should have been part of the marriage. It is a hole in the continuum of the marriage.

The timeline restores that chunk of intimacy to the marriage, where it belongs. "What were you thinking when you looked at me on your way to have sex with him the first time? What did you think/say/do the first time you returned home from sex with him?" Etc.

As painful as the dirty details are, most BH's find that the benefit of restoring the honesty and intimacy outweighs the pain of hearing this stuff. Further, most BH's minds will wander and create all kinds of imagined sexual details. If you learn and know the real details, then your imagination will stop doing this.

If you haven’t already, please talk to your attorney about the time between filing a petition for divorce in Tennessee, and it being granted. If I’m not mistaking, with minor children, it can be granted in as little as 90 days in Tenneseee, assuming a settlement is agreed to outside the court. On 5he othe hand, it can take much longer than that if an agreement cannot be reached without going through discovery, and trial. Sometimes a year, or more. Get specifics on it.