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Long Term Affairs Part 39

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ShatteredSakura posted 2/13/2020 19:17 PM

100% with you on your Resentment Manifesto.

WW never got why I was so embarrassed by it in the beginning. I felt a lot of shame, even when people didn't know...I knew and that's what mattered. She thought that was illogical.

Hurt1227 posted 2/14/2020 09:03 AM

My husband of 31 years has been involved with two women he paid for oral sex for a number of years. He was seeing these women prior to meeting me but I wasnít aware. We dated two years before we got married. He continued seeing these women off and on during our courtship. We moved in together the second year of dating and married after that. Supposedly he was paying these women for oral sex. He eventually stopped seeing one of them, but continued seeing the other one for a number of years after we were married. He canít seem to remember when it ended, but knows that he hasnít cheated since, we moved into our current home which was about 25 years ago.
How can he not know when it ended? Iím just sick. I donít understand how he could be so deceitful and casual. He keeps saying these werenít relationships. He paid them for oral sex only. According to him he has never kissed or had intercourse with anyone of them; however he does admit to giving oral sex to one of them twice. The first time was when he met her at a club and later met up with her that night in a hotel room that she rented. How nasty! Wonder how many men were in that room before and after him.
When I try to get more information he says it wasnít important enough for him to remember. He says it wasnít often maybe once or twice a month. She would call him to see if he wanted to get together and at times he would call her.
My dday was September of 2019. I thought that I could get through this but now Iím not so sure. I canít understand how someone can be do deceitful for years. He has always been supportive and loving. I really donít know this man. What kind of human can live a lie for so many years? Who is this stranger? Iím starting to despise him.
I thought we had a good life. I never knew oral sex was important to him. Now I know why. He was getting it elsewhere. I knew he liked to give but he wasnít big on receiving it at least thatís what he led me to believe. He says that he doesnít really enjoy doing it, but his actions says something different. He says he didnít feel that a wife was suppose to do that. Really?
Also, he said he performed oral on one of them twice, but didnít continue. Iím not sure why that didnít continue. Never kissed or had intercourse with either. I have since, learned that one has worn heels for him. Something that he and I did, oh with her it was only once....really.....oh and she stayed over twice but that was before we met....yeah right! I find it hard to believe that you are paying someone and you allow them to spend the night and they are wearing heels for you. This is so hard. HELP!!!!!í Iím losing it!

Tallgirl posted 2/14/2020 16:40 PM

Hi hurt,

I hear your pain. I know some of it. My story is in my profile, you can see I relate. I am so sorry that you are here.

It has been nearly 2 years since dday1. I have the same struggles.

It is really hard. It is hard to reconcile the liar to the person you thought you knew intimately.

I have been unable to move on. I have survived.

You go through many Stages and feelings. I cycle through them. Sometime I have periods of calm. Days like today are horrible. I am alone. I am broken. Everyone else is in love. Or so it feels. Tomorrow is a new day.

Your husband sounds uncaring about how this hurts. Honestly I suggest you see a councillor. It helps. He would do well to do the same. Whether it was last week or 25 years ago. He broke your trust. And isnít coming clean in a caring way.

Trust is the foundation of any marriage. He has a lot of work to do. You have a weakened foundation.

You may remind him that hiding his cheating for years is lying. Mine didnít get it.

Big hugs. I hope you can find a little peace.

Marlita posted 2/14/2020 22:00 PM

Met the man of my dreams. Fell 110% head over heels! Was, what I thought, the perfect wife. Loved, cooked & satisfied him in EVERY way.....(which is what I thought! Was on top of the world!)
Met in 2008.
Married in 2013,
Days before our 5 year wedding anniversary, found out heíd been in a relationship for 14 years!
Blew my mind, body & soul.
Still currently married. Kids (from my previous marriage) left the house.
Moved to our beautiful vacation home.
Here I am, not having to work, living by the ocean...unsatisfied.
Been to therapy, together & separate.
I am still attractive, fun & sexy. ( From what Iím told)
Trust is gone.
Heís trying, but I have learned so much about myself.
I absolutely cannot give him all of what I did before.
Itís just not there.
The man I married is dead to me & I feel like Iím in an arranged marriage to a man, whom I would have NEVER chosen.
Feeling trapped, unhappy, with him, and just playing the part.
Weíve spoken about this & I feel heís desperately grasping at straws.
I just canít get over it, and feel like he just dug his grave.
Maybe if he married someone else, heíd be better off, but he betrayed the wrong woman!
I am a loyal woman & to be betrayed by a man, whoís manipulated, took advantage of my everything & premeditated every meeting with her, I just cannot move on & grow with him.
He lived a double life & is realizing heís losing the best thing he had.
I almost wish heíd just go back to her.
If heís not already, Who knows?
I do not believe one single word he says.
Iíve gotten rid of any possible memory of ďusĒ. No pictures, all social media photos deleted.
Couldnít even wear our wedding ring anymore, which he had replaced.
And certainly couldnít seat myself in the same truck he took her out in.Which was also reaplaced.
Iím mostly checked out.
He did this to the wrong woman, thatís for sure.
He destroyed my faith, love and everything that I thought a relationship should be.
Iíve since become totally disconnected, with zero guilt.
Karma will get him back.
I donít stress over his phone or anything else.
This man, not only ruined the best thing that happened to him, but he feels remorseful & like a piece of garbage every minute!
Not me though......you reap what you sew!
Taking things day by day.,... poor bastard!

ShatteredSakura posted 2/14/2020 22:17 PM

Days before our 5 year wedding anniversary, found out heíd been in a relationship for 14 years!†
Blew my mind, body & soul.†
Still currently married. Kids (from my previous marriage) left the house.†
Moved to our beautiful vacation home.†
Here I am, not having to work, living by the ocean...unsatisfied

I'm sorry this happened to you.

This is one of the times where it sounds you life literally became a sitcom. Ever heard of the Netflix show "Grace and Frankie"?

gmc94 posted 2/15/2020 18:00 PM


I canít understand how someone can be do deceitful for years. He has always been supportive and loving. I really donít know this man. What kind of human can live a lie for so many years? Who is this stranger? Iím starting to despise him.
I understand all of this. My WH lied about his POSOW from before we M. He claims no sex until we were M 14 years - so 14 years of lying about her/EA, and then another decade of lying about the PA. Dday was 2 yrs ago.

I don't understand it either.

The good news is that this can be healed - with or w/o your WH. I remember when I first came to SI and folks told me to focus on myself. It took me a long time to get there, but I did and I do. It takes work. It takes a lot of time to allow yourself to grieve all that was lost - the first (at least for me) being the loss of my reality and all my hopes and dreams for the future (cuz, all of mine included being M). It sucks, but I truly believe the only way forward is through. Allow yourself as much time as you need. Like many, reading 2-5 years pretty well freaked me out (and of course, I was so awesome and strong I'd NEVER need that long ) But the truth of the matter for me is that I'm just starting year 3 and I'm still traumatized and still shake and still trigger. BUT, I also have "good" days and am able to begin to dream of my own future that has nothing to do with my WH (if he can get his act together, maybe he can come along for the ride.... if not, I know I will be OK on my own).

At this point, it does not sound as if your WH is reconciliation material. The I don't recall is bullshit, just as the "it wasn't important enough to remember". I would not believe that for one minute. I believe that every WH (and probably WW, but that's not what I'm dealing with) remembers every damn detail about the sex. They may not recall the dates, but they sure as heck recall the positions, what they did, the orgasms, etc. For instance, my WH would be hard pressed to remember what he had for breakfast, but apparently he vividly recalls the first time he learned his POSOW could have an orgasm merely by kissing (and he also seems to believe she was not faking any of it, so I suppose she just has a magic vagina and poor old me was born with just a regular one! )

So, I suspect you've already been told the drill on the book front. How to Help Your Spouse Heal is a must read for both (and it's short and I'm told available online for free in a pdf. He needs to read it and understand it).

Not Just Friends is usually up next. While I appreciate that book, I would suggest "out of the doghouse" for a newbie WH who doesn't get it. There's plenty in it that I'm not real thrilled with (eg some misogynist stuff that did not sit well with me). However, it is straightforward and an attempt to get a WH whose head is still in the clouds to start recognizing just how bad the damage is from their secret sexual life.

Finally, I recommend a new book (2019) from Carol Jurgenson Sheets (she also has a podcast which I found so-so) called Help Her Heal. It was too new for me to find in any library or even used, so I shelled out the $25 for my WH (it was recommended to him by his CSAT).

Now, these books are for HIM. It's his responsibility to figure out how to fix himself and support you. I'd get How to Help and Doghouse and see if he reads them.

There are also the Marnie Breecker and Duane Osterlind podcasts that will help both of you understand the TRAUMA of learning of his secret sexual life. Breecker did a two-part interview on Osterlind's The Addicted Mind. I'd say the two of them combined is about a 1.5 hr listen. Then the two of them got together and started their own podcast - Helping Couples Heal - last year. I'd say Helping Couples Heal may be more for just you, esp bc there is at least one episode on disclosure and I think a new WH would point to that as an easy way to avoid giving a timeline... FWIW, it seems ICs can vary widely on the detail of a formal disclosure. IMHO, the BS should be able to get anything and everything s/he wants answered.

I listened to Rick Hanson's Resilience and it really changed my life. He has a process called HEAL that is basically easy steps to recognizing and emphasizing JOY in your life. Joy and gratitude are kind of "must have" steps in this shitshow. It ain't always easy. There were days when the only joy I could muster was being alive, or simple practical things (like I am grateful that I have an automobile that will let me get places and I don't have to take the bus). It seems pretty universal among "experts" that a daily gratitude journal helps those of us experiencing trauma come to rewire our brains to know that the trauma is not the only thing that we are - and that we can become hopeful and happy despite the crummy things we've experienced.

I feel your pain, Hurt. I feel all of it. It's horrifying to learn that the person we chose to spend the rest of our lives with was lying to us the whole time. Horrifying to think that we fell in love with a mask and not a real person (at least that's how I feel). I don't know who my WH "really" is.. and TBH, I'm not sure he does either. What I DO know is that he is not a safe partner and has a lot of deep shit to work out (he's basically a serial cheater - since he was in his early 20s, nearly all of his relationships have involved infidelity, whether he cheated, he was betrayed, or he was an AP. The man is now in his 60s).

Are you in IC? If you are considering it, I would seek out a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist) who specializes in relational betrayal trauma. If that's not available, I honestly think finding someone who specializes in trauma is more important than specializing in infidelity. The infidelity folks can be all over the place (including blaming the BS or the M for the A). Trauma folks may not know that much about infidelity specifically, but they sure as heck know about validating the feelings of a traumatized person. I found that I can educate myself on the infidelity pieces - and bring that to my trauma IC who is amazeballs and helping me heal long ago FOO trauma that I'd worked on plenty, but was completely ripped open again with a vengeance on dday. I've also learned that any therapist who finished their education more than 10-20 years ago may not have ANY trauma training. So if you are looking at someone with more experience, I would ask specifically what trauma training they have had since graduating. I get a lot more mileage from my IC who has been out of school less than 10 years than I got with my long time experienced IC who didn't know squat about trauma. We know SOOOOOO much more about trauma than we did even a decade ago, so I think it's important that we avail ourselves of all that new information (eg that trauma can actually leave a chemical mark on our genes).

Ok, I've written another book here. Godspeed.

Hurt1227 posted 2/15/2020 21:00 PM

Gmc94 thank you for taking time to share your experiences with me. This is so hard. I do believe that he remembers more than what he says. I was in IC but the the counselor was not very good. We have been attending MC, not sure if that is doing any good. He believes that my WH has compartmentalized everything and doesnít remember much.
It doesnít appear that my WH has done anything outside of what occurred some 25 plus years. Itís just so confusing and heart breaking.
Thank you for the book recommendations.

gmc94 posted 2/16/2020 06:26 AM

Personally, I found MC to be a waste of time. I feel that if WH and I get to a point where we could both benefit from it, I would be happy to do more joint sessions or MC, but to date, it's not been very helpful. Especially early on, I can see where MC is actually harmful in that the MC's job is to heal the M - not the individuals. The problem I had was that the A was about HIM and not the M (tho our M certainly has issues separate from the A).

WH and I used to share an IC, but now we are each seeing a different CSAT. I will say that my WH has got more benefit from a few sessions with a CSAT than he got during the last 2 years with his two prior ICs (and the MC, so that would be 3 therapists for him).

I harp on it alot, but I really wish that WH started with a CSAT from the beginning. The WS does not need to be an SA to use a CSAT (my WH is a serial cheater, and probably borderline / low level on the SA tests). I see a CSAT as well, but she has a kind of cold personality, so I feel I use her more for educating myself and then do the hard emotional work with my trauma IC (I am blessed to be able to see both of them).

It can take awhile to find a good IC - but I would keep trying, especially if you are dealing with years of deceit, which IMHO, is its own special kind of mindfuck.

WhyAgainWhyHer posted 2/17/2020 10:08 AM

I agree, Hurt, he definitely remembers more than he's letting on. I don't know why they do that, its so much worse finding out more later.

V Day ended up completely cancelled. I didn't even get a card. And was asked why such a commercial holiday meant anything, I should be happy with all he provides me. Whatever.

Oh and now he's interviewing for a new job, which will involve more travel. That makes no sense if they were planning on her moving here. Maybe the affair is over (for now).

Marlita posted 2/20/2020 21:03 PM

Thank you for responding,
I feel like my life is a Netflix series, sadly.
6/24/18 was the day I found out.
So, itíll be 2 years this year.
Valentineís Day came & went....like everything else.
Going through a tough time right now.
I am conflicted in my feelings...
Not sure if I hate HIM for what he did to ďusĒ/me...or if I am hating MYSELF for being such a fool.
I hate this roller coaster!
I feel like itís totally changed my chemical makeup!
Sooo frustrating!
Iíve done therapy, EDM, couples therapy & this is still a marital roadblock!
Sone days, like Iím sure you understand, are better than others.
But when my days are dark, they are DARK!

ShatteredSakura posted 2/22/2020 13:09 PM

I saw this the other day and I thought of this thread. It gave me a chuckle.

Keep laying those bricks..

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 1:10 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

Tallgirl posted 2/22/2020 20:46 PM

Totally relate.

He built a wall through lying for years and years. And of course the 5 year affair with the chick he paid for sex with for the first three months, then got it for free for the next 5 years.

Now he wants us. His family. Maybe me. Or what I now represent.

Such Unfair bullshit.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 8:47 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

thatbpguy posted 2/22/2020 22:42 PM

Infidelity is more than a mind fuck. It is a life fuck. To everyone it touches.

yes............................. it...........................is.

ShatteredSakura posted 2/22/2020 23:54 PM

Totally relate.
He built a wall through lying for years and years. And of course the 5 year affair with the chick he paid for sex with for the first three months, then got it for free for the next 5 years.

Now he wants us. His family. Maybe me. Or what I now represent.

Such Unfair bullshit.

Hmm, yeah I guess it can apply to the other side too. They also build walls too don't they?

That damn cell phone. We could be in the same room and she was a world away laughing at something the AP texted her. I'm literally right there and she can look up and just talk to me, but didn't.

It really is unfair BS.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 11:54 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

somanyyears posted 2/23/2020 08:49 AM

.. @hurt1227..

"What kind of human can live a lie for 'so many years'???"

Now you know where I came up with my user name!!

She let me live in the lie that lasted 40 years.
What's worse is she let me continue being the best friend to the OM all the while. Talk about disrespect and humiliation, could it get any worse??

If I had known back then what I know now, I should have killed them both and then myself.
A bullet to the head would have been so much less painful.

Fortunately, the OM did the only honorable thing... to die from a brain tumor at 57.
Should have been sooner, but I'll take it as delayed justice!


Tallgirl posted 2/23/2020 09:34 AM

Oh man the phone. He was on the phone ALL the time. It wasnít work. She texted all the time. If he didnít respond in 20 minutes she freaked out.

There was always a work issue. A server down. An upset client. All lies. All in my house. At our kitchen table. With our children there.

I agree. How can they lie for so long. Be so cruel through their selfishness.

The depth of hurt....

Somanyyears, I understand the anger, the rage, the hurt. To ruin yourself for them. They are not worthy. You are worth more than them, you are good.

All. Please be kind to yourselves today.

ShatteredSakura posted 2/23/2020 10:06 AM

I think if given the chance WW may have put me in a similar situation as somanyyears.

I don't get why some AP's feel okay with invading other people's lives for such a length of time. I don't know who is worse, the AP who wants to steal the WS or the one who is okay with being a side piece. Or be okay with believing dribble like "I'm going to leave my wife soon and we will be together". A friend of WW's is in that situation (as the OW), now for like two years...how people rationalize doing that I'll never understand. The sheer sense of entitlement of knowingly involving yourself with an unavailable person is so scummy.

Thanks Tallgirl, you too. I started a fun little weekend project yesterday but today I'm all anxiety and feeling down. I had yet another dream about WW.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 10:17 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

Tallgirl posted 2/23/2020 10:39 AM

Sakura. What is the project?

ShatteredSakura posted 2/23/2020 11:51 AM

Programming project. I've been investigating a GPU text rendering technique. There's a popular tool out there to generate the data, but no way to use it in the programming language I use and I haven't found a satisfactory alternative. So I'm making bindings to adapt the tool.

You may have been expecting a home improvement project or something

Tallgirl posted 2/23/2020 12:08 PM


[This message edited by Tallgirl at 12:09 PM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

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