SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We've seen this "separation" way too many times, it typically means more time to cheat without being monitored, she will now test drive OM and if it doesn't work out, she has good old you (Plan B) waiting, don't be nobody's plan B, if you even want to have a chance at saving your M, there's a saying here in SI that "you have to be willing to lose your M in order to save it", file for D without warning and EXPOSE the A with ALL family and close friends, it takes a long time and if by any chance she comes back around, ends her A, shows true remorse, agrees to NC FOREVER with OM, agrees to on demand full access to all her electronic devices,agrees to go to IC/MC to find out her "whys" and restore the M and finally signs a postnup with an infidelity clause in your favor, then and only then should you CONSIDER giving her the gift or R or NOT, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality nothing will, either way you get out of infidelity.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 9:37 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Hi Buc,

I haven't posted in a while but your story hits very close to mine. 4 years ago on the 4th of July my wife confessed that she was having an affair with a coworker. (Actually a vp at her company). Like you, I had joked with her that she had a boyfriend because she was talking about this guy a lot. They started spending time together and she started a new hobby that he introduced her to. An affair was so foreign to me that I didn't think it was possible. I believed her when she said it was nothing. But after a while I confronted her (twice actually) if there was anything I needed to worry about. She lied, gaslighted etc. then out of the blue she confessed. Turns out she had been in a physical and emotional affair for six months. We even went on a double date with the om and his wife. The affair was at its peak then. The only reason my wife confessed was because the OM's wife found evidence and the OM was busted. He dropped my wife like a hot potato when his wife started raging. The OM's wife started threatening my wife and was about to tell me everything so my wife confessed.

I get a strong feeling your wife was forced to confess too.

At any rate I feel your pain. The early days after discovery are brutal. You've had a lot happen in 24 hours. Your wife is all over the place and you're trying (understandably so) to follow the bouncing ball. "She's feeling guilty, she's gone, she's back". Don't try to make sense of any of this shit right now. Just know that all of this nightmare is 100% on your wife. You didn't cause it and you didn't come up short in any way.

I did some things wrong in the early days after dday. The worst was I went to MC right away. The second worst was I watched my wife go to work with that fuckhead for 8 months until I exploded and forced her to choose. Do NOT do that. Decide if this is a total deal killer for you and if so, divorce her now.

If there is a chance you can forgive her, tell her to quit her job tomorrow. If she doesn't, divorce her.

I eventually informed the company's legal counsel and the CEO about the affair. If your wife leaves voluntarily then maybe you can work on reconciliation. If she waffles and hesitates to quit, expose the affair to her company, her family, and divorce her. What she has done is destroy your marriage and it is going to cause you great pain that is only beginning.

This is a good place for advice. Welcome. Everyone here is in various stages of the nightmare. I can say it took me about 3.5 years to stop thinking about it constantly. I'm now somewhat healed but there are scars that will always be there. My wife and I are still married. We have good days most of the time now. That wasn't the case even a year ago.

Infidelity is the worst thing I've ever been through. I always assumed it would be a deal killer for me until it happened. I underestimated the pain it causes but I also underestimated my ability to forgive.

You sound like a good, strong, solid man. Take care of yourself now. Don't try to fix the situation. Lay down your rules and if they aren't acceptable the cut your losses.

Hugs bro.

I made it clear to her that we both needed to focus on ourselves for now and on being good parents to our kids.

Sorry man but don't be surprised if she spends 100% of her time with her other man during separation. You will be conveniently out of the way.

As long as they have contact the affair will continue.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:04 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

As others have said, her having her own place provides time and distance to continue her adultery safely.

I wouldn't go to the HR department until you have consulted a lawyer and found out your rights. If she loses her job (which is likely the case as the supervisor) there could be a financial impact on you. Wait until you know your rights and the impact.

I would recommend you do file for divorce and have her served. You don't need to follow through. In the province I live in if you separate as soon as discovery you can be divorced in 30 days (fault divorce). I didn't do so and am considered by law to have condoned the adultery so a one year separation is required. As I said, you don't have to follow through or complete the divorce at the earliest possible date.

As suggested get a couple of VAR and have one with you at all times when talking with her or in her presence. She is not the same woman you married and you can't trust her.

As others said, with the separation (her own apartment) she can test drive the new guy without trading in the old one until she knows if the new guy fills the bill. If COWPOS dumps her she will come back to you wanting to make the marriage work because she's "thought it over". The fact that she jumped so quickly from confessing and willing to do anything appears to me she was conversing with him when you were out of the house. It also shows, I think, that she was probably afraid you were going to find out on your own about her cheating.

Please listen to the advice and warnings given here. We've been here a long time (some of us) and have seen these things and lived these things. We don't want you to go through what we did. There's a lot of collective wisdom in this shitty club.

I am absolutely listening to the advice and thoughts of others on here. I don’t have any grand ideas that this separation will solve any problems or change anything. I also know there is probably an 85% chance this all still ends in divorce. I plan on using this time to fully better myself mentally and emotionally what she chooses to do with it is on her. I’m not going into this expecting this to end in R. I am however willing to see where it takes both of us.

After talking for a while we both agreed that a separation is the best thing for now. She is going to move out tomorrow and get an apartment.

BucBlitz

Make it clear between the two of you if it’s OK to date other people during the separation or not.

What usually happens is that the subject doesn’t come up. The person not having the affair assumes that it’s not OK while the person having the affair takes it as a hall pass for guilt free sex.

If you decide to R and find out she had sex she will say you can’t complain because you were separated.

[This message edited by Michigan at 11:55 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Don't live in infidelity too long.

Beware of hopium. It tends to blind you.

Have you agreed upon the terms of this separation? E.g. no dating others or are you free to date ?

Also has she agreed to go no contact with the POSOM (other than at work)? Has she agreed to look for another job? What is the basis for this separation (other than to reconnect with yourselves)?

How much younger is the POSOM (what are the ages involved here)?

I guess I jumped the gun a little bit with my earlier update and misunderstood some things over a phone conversation I had with her.

BucBlitz

The fact that she jumped so quickly from confessing and willing to do anything appears to me she was conversing with him when you were out of the house.

Steadychevy

Steadychevy nailed it. You didn’t “jump the gun.” She talked to the OM and he turned out not to be as dependable as she once thought. When the reality of having her full time hit him he backed off.

[This message edited by Michigan at 7:06 AM, November 21st (Wednesday)]

Trial separations don’t work out well. Only 10% do. She’s going to be test driving the boyfriend. Geez, dude, if she wanted to leave the house and live in an apartment you should have handed her the divorce papers there and then.

This 24 hour period in which she confesses, wants to fix things and then does a backflip and says she has feelings for the asshole is troublesome.

You need to blow her world up and his world. They need to leave their place of employment. Your wife should be dismissed immediately. Her young lover should also go. At present, she has suffered no consequences. This isn’t a two week fling. This must have been going on for a long time. She must have realised someone was going to bring it out in the open. Perhaps her AP. Someone else.

She confessed. But why then proceed to want R and then do a backflip? It doesn’t make sense. Was it her intention from the start? Hopping you would divorce her on the spot and when she realised you had hope for R she went to plan B?

[This message edited by Mene at 2:51 AM, November 21st (Wednesday)]

Please listen to the collective wisdom here. You seem like a man with a plan, but many see separation as just approval for the WS to continue the A without the BS in the way. It seems that’s what your wife is doing here.

Talk to your lawyer about the D process and if it includes a built in “cooling down” period anyway. If so then You probably should start the D process, separate, and then See if she cares enough to try and save the marriage.

You can tell her how she’s broken your heart, killed the marriage as it was and if she wants to save it she needs to figure out a plan to do that. In the meantime you will be working to legally end the relationship that she destroyed. It sounds dramatic. Her actions were dramatic.

I feel for you. Sending thoughts of strength.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:53 AM, November 21st (Wednesday)]

Buc

There are few – if any – constants in what we are dealing with. But there are trends, there are statistics and there are rules-of-thumb that our vast, collective experience tells us works when dealing with infidelity.

The way I see it then reconciling a marriage is a lot like being thrust into running a marathon with little – if any – preparation. The actions and decisions we make will either increase our odds at completing the marathon or prevent us from making it. IMHO the decision to separate… well… that’s like deciding to run the marathon wearing ski-boots. It’s not going to make your run easier in any way or form.

I would refuse the separation. One could say her decision to cheat was based on not being in the marriage 100%. How can separating make either of you be in the marriage 100% Its more likely comparable to pulling a band-aid off slowly. It won’t solve your issues.

I don’t think our goal here on SI should be to get your divorced or to get you to reconcile. Either option is a good solution to infidelity. Our goal should be to guide you out of infidelity. Away from the situation where your spouse cheats or has an infidelity mentality. Fortunately for you then our COLLECTIVE experience can tell you that the path out of infidelity – irrespective of R or D – starts on the same track. The fork in the road where you decide to R or D is still some distance away.

I want you to do this exercise:

What would be the worst possible outcome from the present situation?

Think this though. Imagine 3, 12 or 18 months from now. What would be the worst thing to realize then?

If your answer is that the absolute worst outcome 18 months from now would be coming home to an empty apartment, the kids with their mom and you feeling all lonely and dejected then the answer is obvious: Let your wife have her affair. After all stats strongly indicate it won’t go any further. She will have her affair-sex with OM, feel the thrill of being in “luuuuuvvve” and dream about how she would in another life leave the evil ogre and ride away into the sunset with the White Knight OM. But she probably won’t leave you and chances are the affair will fizzle out. OM will want a more permanent relationship – but not necessarily an older woman with two kids – and his future GF will make him give up his work-sex.

Might not sound appealing but honestly there are plenty of couples that are in a marriage with an active, ongoing affair. The betrayed partner conveniently “believes” the wayward spouse when she says she needs to work late, go visit aunt Maude or whatever. Just be careful about STD’s and have a hygiene regimen in place.

If the above sounds like it’s acceptable then don’t bother reading further.

It the above doesn’t sound appealing once again: WHAT WOULD BE THE WORST OUTCOME?

I hope the answer would be that 3 – 12 – 18 months from now you were still posting here on SI because your wife was still in an affair. I would hope that finding a hickey on her neck, love-notes on the phone or a wet-spot in your bed would be the worst possible outcome.

Once you realize and accept that ONGOING INFIDELITY is the worst outcome… Well… then everything else becomes acceptable. Including the risk of losing your marriage.

This is so important because once you accept the risk of losing your marriage you are prepared to take the risks that the necessary steps require. Accepting this risk… that’s removing the ski-boots and putting on some go-fast sneakers.

OK – So here are the steps I recommend. Some (if not all) have been suggested already:

Contact an attorney – AT LEAST google divorce in your state. This step is the equivalent to having smoke-detectors in your home. You don’t plan on having a fire; you do this just in case.

A large problem in dealing with infidelity and marital issues is the lack of reality. I severely doubt that you or your wife know what divorce would really look like. She (if she’s a typical WW) thinks you two will be friends, she keeps the house and you come along on Sunday mornings to clean the gutters and fix the leaking sink. Maybe even say hi to the OM who is eating the bacon she just fried while wearing the dressing gown you forgot to take with you.

Or you think you can get full custody, kick her out and keep both the cars and all the cutlery.

That’s not going to happen… Divorce is a KNOWN process. There are occasional fantasy-type stories here on SI about men that left their wife’s desolate and, in the dust, taking the kids and all the assets with them in divorce. Not true. Won’t happen. Divorce is a known process and a competent divorce attorney could probably give you right after the first couple of meetings an accurate evaluation of the result. That result might sound bland at first, but it is acceptable and it better than turning a blind eye when your wife goes out to “play bridge with the girls” …

KNOW the process. KNOW what to expect. Accept it and be willing to walk that path IF no other option is open for you. It allows both of you to advance knowing what risks and stakes you are dealing with.

Second step: Involve stakeholders.

Like I said: Affairs are a lack of reality. Once others know it becomes REAL. You get pressure on your wife to build her decisions on reality.

Honestly – exposing the affair can be the BEST thing you do for your wife. If nothing else, it opens for her to decide her future based on reality rather than fantasy.

Some insist that exposure might make reconciliation harder. Our COLLECTIVE experience will tell you that exposure maker reconciliation a possibility. Keep that in mind: Right now, your WW is giving you the option of a separation that does NOT increase the odds of the affair ending. What she is offering now is NOT increasing the chances of reconciliation.

Expose. Do so strategically. Tell those that can impact her actions the following:

“Wife is having an affair with [use name of OM]. He works with her at the hospital. I refuse to share my wife and this affair threatens to end our marriage and split our family. I would appreciate any input you can have for me or on my wife to help her realize the impact of her decisions and actions.”

Initial reaction from wife will be anger. Our COLLECTIVE experience tells us she will say something like she had planned on reconciling, but your exposure makes her think it won’t work. Happens in 99/100 cases. Just ride it through and keep exposing. Answer with “It’s the truth. These people have a stake in our relationship and I won’t hide the truth”.

Third step: Refuse to accept the affair. IMHO it’s a pivotal moment when you – the betrayed husband – has the courage and strength to say something along these lines:

“Wife. I think our family and our marriage deserve that we do our best to save this marriage. I would be willing to do a lot to do that. But I have had an epiphany: I have realized that losing you is NOT the worst outcome of this situation. Remaining in infidelity where at best I share you with another man… THAT IS IMMENSELY WORSE.

I refuse to share. Sharing a wife does not fit into my vision of a marriage.

You are free to see OM, date OM, have sex with OM, spend the night with OM… WHATEVER.

But not as my wife.

The moment you DECIDED to have an affair is the moment you DECIDED not to be my wife.

I would have better understood had you first asked for a divorce before acting in this way, but you didn’t, and we can’t change that. What I can change is accepting that our marriage as I knew it is over and I can start MY personal recovery and the formal process of terminating our marriage.

That is what I will do. I have contacted an attorney and he will instruct me in a fair and amicable divorce. I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to decide or talk to you in detail about the next steps. My attorney will handle that.

If you want this marriage, then you need to commit to certain factors that increase its chances of survival. You need to clearly and vocally tell me that you want this marriage and offer me assurances that the affair is over. The marriage can survive ANYTHING – but not an ongoing affair.

This isn’t a standing, open offer. I am getting out of infidelity and the further I go the harder it will be for you to catch up. At some point I will be out of your reach.”

And then you go and make a sandwich or take the dog for a walk.

If she comes back and says “I would want this marriage but right now I don’t love you” your standard answer is “I am sorry you feel that way. If we were working at saving this marriage we could address that issue in MC, but since you are committed to your infidelity [and always call it an affair or infidelity, don’t rose-cover it by calling OM “lover”] then it really isn’t relevant.”

That’s your standard answer to any marit¬¬¬¬al issue she brings up. We need to divorce because you have bad breath: Sorry you feel that way. If we were…

Then you do a hard 180. You focus on yourself. I don’t expect you to be happy, but act content. You aren’t content the marriage is over, but rather you are content because you are on a path out of this misery.

Her “I don’t love you”?

I’m a former cop. Shortly after I signed up an experienced veteran pointed something out to me. No matter what people have done they will find ways to justify their actions. Somebody driving drunk would claim that they usually could handle that much booze, but they got flu. A drug-dealer would insist he was only harming those that wanted to use drugs. A rapist claims the victim wanted it rough.

For your wife it’s a lot easier to excuse and explain her behavior to not loving you rather than the most likely truth: OM gave her validation for some insecurities. Just like she first tried to explain it as “just sex”.

Her claim that she no longer loves you… An excuse and a justification. She might be able to convince herself that she doesn’t love you, but I can more-or-less promise you it’s an afterthought rather than the real reason she decided to cheat.

Fourth step: Talk openly about her affair and your marriage ending while the affair is ongoing.

Start processes like dividing bills and accounts. Stop all long-term purchases or plans. Cancel the tickets to Disney Land next summer. Get the home evaluated. Openly talk about who moves out or if you can keep the home. Arrange for guidance on how to tell the kids. Make the divorce/consequences of an ongoing affair clear.

Follow the above advice and you not only have you removed your ski-boots, but also added power-bars, water-stations and cheerleaders to aid you on your run. It increases the odds of your wife following you to the end-line, but it ensures that YOU eventually make it. Considering what you are dealing with then that’s actually quite a good offer.

You need to blow her world up and his world.

Mene

The above is true if you want to R. You need to shock her back into reality.

However, if you want to D be nice. You want her to keep her job and make money. If you’re going to D it doesn’t matter if she sees the OM at work or not.

If you keep your mouth shut both your wife and the OM will want to not upset you. If you get upset you may “blow up their world.”

The way they do that is by giving you good divorce terms. Do not overtly say “I want X or I’ll get you fired" because that’s blackmail. Just do things like saying I need to expose you at work and let her talk you out of it.

Honestly, I wouldn’t worry too much about her job.

If the employer doesn’t have a HR policy clearly forbidding infidelity or personal work-affairs or relationships between supervisors and subordinates, then chances are a warning will be given (at most).

Even if she were fired then nurses are a commodity and she would be unemployed all of a day.

Keep in mind that part of the reconciliation process IF this goes that way will be accountable NC with OM. That’s not possible if they are both working the same hospital. Too many dressing- and linen rooms for comfort.

Having said that then I personally don’t see a need to expose at work as is. It becomes an issue if you two decide to reconcile.

I really appreciate all the advice from you guys. This has been an amazing helpful place for me so far. I’m not even ready to consider R with her at this point even. If she wanted to. I plane on living my life for now and she can do the same. At the end we are going to realize one of two things in my mind we are either better together or apart. I did however go ahead and contact my lawyer to give myself a peace of mind. He advised me that the separation agreement we came to sounds fine however he did tell me to keep a journal and keep track of all finances, any cancellations of kids time, etc. He said unfortunately we live in a no-fault divorce state so the affair does not really matter in the case of D. I am going to go ahead and fully prepare myself for D whether it happens or not. I don’t feel the need to blowup her job because I want her to continue to make equal pay to what I do in the case it does end in D. L

[This message edited by BucBlitz at 8:22 AM, November 21st (Wednesday)]

If you look at your separation as divorce with training wheels, you'll be fine.

I can't count the number of people that I know that have divorced or "hard separated" and then got back together. Not because it's lots and lots of them...it's just that I can't count.

Sending Strength, Buc. Look at my profile, and the key steps to survival. You're doing most of them already.

I'm sorry you're here ...especially over TG and XMAS. Your wife is a real POS with her timing.

Under the circumstance where she is actively dating and working with the OM, a separation is not going to help your marriage. The separation will just fuel her fantasy - and allow her to feel less guilty by not facing you and lying every day.

It sounds like your wife didn't have the courage to say to your face that she wants a D ....so her plan B is to separate and ease you into D.

You can't control what she does but you can assert some control in your own life.

File for D without warning her (cite adultery and serve her at work) and start the clock running. Expose the affair immediately. Pay for the attorney's advance fee with joint funds. Only communicate with her regarding kids...otherwise go to a strong 180.

Don't give her time to spin the story that there's a marriage issue (verbal abuse, emotional distance etc) vs her adultery.

IMHO separation is only the first step in divorce.

Is your separation agreement dated? Is there a time-frame? Like are you separating from the 1st of December to the 1st of February? Is there a goal with the separation? Is there a clause on dating others?

If none of the above then it’s only a path to make divorce easier.

So why not go all the way? Why not pull the bandaid?

What are you telling people on why you are separated?

Stick to the truth: You two are separating because of her affair.

BucBlitz:

You seem like a good guy with a level head. With the steps you have already taken you are well ahead of most. I think you know the risks of separation so I won’t belabor them, but there are positives as well which you have already described. Keep on, keepin on. But consider getting IC for yourself if the emotional rollercoaster gets too hard. Also, be there for your kids. They need at least one stable parent. Watch for their anxiety or acting out and inform teachers of the situation so they can be alert to the repercussions of a split home. Also, be good to yourself by all means. Enjoy your exercise or hobby, or start a new one. Take care of you. Use this time to strengthen you. Good luck. You are doing well so far.

I usually agree with Biggers on everything, and he right on the money here.

Make it clear between the two of you if it’s OK to date other people during the separation or not.

This needs to be specifically addressed NOW!

If she is actively in an affair, why would you separate and not go ahead with filing for a divorce. She needs to understand that if you think she is continuing, it's over. You deserve better and shouldn't stand to be made a fool of.