SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi BucBlitz,

I am sorry that you had reason to go looking for this forum, but I am glad that you found it. People here have a lot of real-life experience of infidelity, and they can hopefully point you in the right direction, depending on which way you want to go.

The first thing I want to say to you is that it is way too soon to make a big decision. We can sometimes feel like we have to make an immediate ‘snap’ decision – stay or go – but that is not the case. There is no deadline by which you have to make a decision, so take your foot off the gas and instead start weighing up your different options. Those can be talked through here, and with an individual counsellor if you have one.

Also, although there is a cost involved, I believe it would be worth you consulting a lawyer to discuss what divorce would look like financially. It is worth doing this even if you want to reconcile, because it gives you solid knowledge about what to expect if things go south, or you change your mind.

I agree with what everyone has said about marriage counselling. It is too soon for that. The current problem was not caused by the marriage, but by your wife’s lack of boundaries and decision to embark on a reckless and dishonest course of action that has brought her personal integrity and commitment to the marriage into question. That is why she needs to go into individual counselling and identify why she chose to do this to you and the family before the pair of you sit down in marriage counselling.

What often happens is that a wayward spouse panics about losing their marriage, and hopes that MC will fix the damage that they have done, without realising that it is THEM that needs to be fixed before a decision can be made on whether the marriage can be saved.

She says it was just sex and he doesn’t mean anything to her more than that

A lot of wayward spouses say that, thinking that it will provide some kind of consolation for their betrayed partners. It really doesn’t, does it? It has always been a statement that has made me feel angry, because what it really says is that a cheap, tawdry, meaningless bit of rutting was more important than the marriage, the family, honesty, integrity, and respect for the betrayed partner.

That statement tends to be said by waywards who are in ‘cover your ass’ (CYA) mode, and I hate to think how many people in this forum heard a variation on it.

She says she told me because she couldn’t live with the guilt anymore.

That may or may not be the case. She managed to live with it for two weeks of repeated visits to the OM’s home, which is why people are wondering if there was another trigger involved, like being caught at work.

No one else knew as far as I know.

People have wisely told you not to trust anything that you are told without some kind of independent verification. How would your wife know if her affair partner told his buddies or other hospital workers about what they were doing? It’s not like men are shy about bragging, and co-workers pick up on chemistry between people very quickly.

He is a single guy

This could be your wife trying to put you off trying to contact the guy’s wife or girlfriend, or he may have lied to your wife about being attached.

they only had sex at his house from what she tells me

She did go into pretty good detail about the affair when I asked questions so I think it’s a good sign she doesn’t seem to be hiding anything?

I think that you need to ask her to produce a detailed timeline for the affair, with dates and locations, and an explanation of how things started, and why she allowed them to escalate.

If your wife and her affair partner still work there, she needs to start looking for another job. There is a tendency for affairs to spring back to life if the two people involved work in proximity, and if your wife wants you to accept her back and attempt reconciliation, then she needs to take action to prove her good faith and commitment by removing herself from the vicinity of the OM.

My other question is what do I do about living with her for now if we do try to work it out?

I think you should not leave the house. There is a technique that people use called ‘The 180’, and there is a section about it in the Healing Library here. Basically, it is about detaching mentally from your wife while you focus on what you need and want. It helps recently betrayed people get their thoughts in order so they can then figure out if they want to divorce or reconcile. It can also be useful if a wayward partner continues to lie or attempt to manipulate a betrayed partner.

The 180 is not about withdrawing to ‘scare’ a wayward spouse. It is entirely for the betrayed person to get themselves together by making themselves the priority.

As you have kids, either one of you being gone for any length of time will be difficult, so absence is only worth it if you think it will achieve something.

She works 12 hrs shifts at a hospital and is fixing to work 7 days straight for the holidays so I’ll need to be home with the kids.

Then maybe she needs to change her shift plans. Do you have any relatives who could watch the kids, so that you are not anchored to the house?

But if I tell her to leave you know what my mind will race to.....

Tell her that it is her responsibility to prove to you that she is not with the OM, and that if she gives you ten seconds of doubt about that, you will be filing for divorce and reporting their affair to their manager.

The bottom line is, she broke it, so she has to fix it. And that means total transparency about where she is at all times, what shifts she shares with the OM, and complete openness with her phone, email, etc.

What actions has she offered you so far to (1) prove absolutely that the affair is over, and (2) prove she will not spend any time with her affair partner at work? It is her job to do this if she wants to save a marriage that she fired a missile at.

[This message edited by M1965 at 12:15 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Robert:

I don’t actually have any evidence she told me face to face

Both of ours first marriage, to my knowledge neither of us has ever cheated in any relationship before. I’m 38 she’s 35. She’s a charge nurse at a hospital and yes he works for her. Kids are 8 and 5. She works nights 7pm to 7am at the hospital. No one else knew until she told me now our parents know.

She’s a charge nurse at a hospital and yes he works for her.

Wow

If she is his supervisor, then she committed a fire-able offense. It's just wrong in about a thousand different ways, and she is breaking faith with you, her employers, herself, and even the OM, as his boss. Doesn't matter if he begged her for it. It's a unequal power relationship.

I can't imagine having her go into work myself. If humanly possible, she needs to quit right this second. At an absolute bare minimum, she needs to tell her supervisor.

There's a famous saying, the best time to plant a tree is 15 years ago, the next best time is today. Same goes for finding integrity, and she cannot work there and maintain her integrity.

Your wife has serious head problems...and will need to go through the 5 stages of death, so to speak, before she realizes she can't manage this one back under the rug and return to the status quo. The sooner she realizes it, the better for everyone, including her.

Hello Buc:

Sorry you find yourself here. You'll find a lot of useful info in The Healing Library (yellow box, top left of this page).

Your first short term task is to ground yourself. Breathe deeply. Hydrate. Try to sleep. Get as much exercise as you can. Avoid alcohol.

Read on The Healing Library about The 180. This is a technique for creating some psychological space around yourself so that you can sort out your emotions and your head. Your emotions will be a rollercoaster for a while, cycling from rage to pain to indifference to desperation. That is normal. It takes a good 30-90 days just to get your head straight.

Your main task is to figure out what you and your heart want. You heart's truth. You should give yourself time for this. 90 days at least.

If you are interested in exploring R with your WW, I'd mention a few things.

First, the fact that she confessed voluntarily could potentially be a good sign. As people note, a confession could be an indicator that the A was a true aberration for her, one she truly regrets. But it could also mean that you were about to find out from an informant and she was covering her ass. For example, she tells you that the POSOM is single, but how do you know that to be true other than what she says? Unfortunately, until you get a more solid grasp on the truth, you won't know which it is.

Others have recommended having your WW read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair". This is an excellent book and you ought to read it too. You should ask her to write out a detailed timeline of the A. As you discuss the A with her, you can use that timeline to figure out what was going on in her head and her heart when she made the first decision to have sex with another man, then the second, etc. What did she think and do when she came home to you? The kids? Etc.

In the end, R only works if two things occur:

1. She figures out what was broken in her moral compass that led to her making the decision to cheat, and she fixes it to a point where she is safe, where you are confident it won't recur.

2. That ephemeral matter of the heart: you know that her love and desire for you is true.

It is way too early for you two to do MC. She is broken. She needs to fix herself via IC first. MC can't help a couple where one of the spouses is broken.

Good luck.

It's more likely she confessed because she realized she was close to being discovered.

All cheaters lie (no exceptions), so be suspicious of the basis for her confession (because she felt guilty).

Especially since the 'I felt guilty' confession places her in a more positive light (as if she has functioning moral values).

Your wife knew way before they had sex that she was attracted to the OM and that he was a threat to her marriage (and she let the affair happen).

The affair most certainly started months before that with secret one on one lunches, secret conversations/texting behind your back, maybe meeting outside of work too.

Typically there's a much earlier line they cross (a caress, holding hands, a kiss, an off color joke, discussing her husband's deficiencies) ... plenty of time for guilt to kick in and stop the affair before it escalates.

Coworkers see each other every day and observe each other's social contacts/friends, coffee breaks, and lunch habits.

For example, if your wife used to have coffee or lunch with a group of COWs and then suddenly goes off with the OM every day, that starts the rumor mill going.

In the beginning the initial contacts (coffee,lunch)were probably above board and seemed innocent to the COWs. However, at some point especially when they disappear for lunch every day

the COWs become suspicious.

Since your wife is a liar and since the OM is a her COW, it's more likely she confessed because she realized she was close to being discovered.

How? A close girlfriend at work told her that COWs are talking about her .... or the OM bragged to one of his friends (typical for a single guy) ... or a COW saw them coming/going from his house.

Is she the primary wage earner?

Do you have access to her email (personal and business), texts, social media accounts? Under the circumstances you need immediate access because that's where you find proof of an inappropriate relationship.

Don't give her advance warning that you want access or she will delete the evidence.

A cheater has no right to privacy. There's probably texts/emails between them ....maybe facebook messages, or pictures they exchanged on her phone.

She has to get a new job. I don't know your financial situation but she needs to start looking like yesterday. This needs to be non-negotiable. In the meantime, she needs to transfer to another department and shift as soon as possible. Tell her this: if you work together then the A is ongoing.

[This message edited by WilliamM at 11:04 AM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

She says she told me because she couldn’t live with the guilt anymore.

BucBlitz

The above could be true. Another possibility is that she told you because someone told her to do it or they would. If it is true then she felt safe and secure enough to do it. That is, she was confident that you would never divorce her and make her a single parent.

If you go straight to how can we work this out then you’re sending a signal.

You’re actions are saying that you agree with her, that having sex with someone else is no big deal.

Even if you’re 100% sure that you want to grow old with her divorce and consequences must be on the table in order to set the proper tone for the rest of your marriage.

The only reason not to even bring up the subject of divorce is that you’re afraid she will take you up on it.

[This message edited by Michigan at 12:24 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Tell her that your initial reaction is to D. However you've been advised to delay your decision for 90 days ....to give yourself time think and stabilize ... And for her to convince you that she is remorseful and can be a safe life partner.

BucBlitz,

I'm so sorry that you have to join our shitty little club. There are those here with far more experience in your particular situation (I had no kids and mine abandoned me immediately when I discovered her affair), so I will leave it to them.

What I can tell you is that first, it will get better. You're in the trenches right now with artillery fire coming from all directions and there's not a goddamn thing you can do to stop it. The emotional onslaught is torturous but inexorable. Second, you'd be surprised at how cheaters (and the betrayed, after discovery) follow a lot of the same scripts. The advice here is very insightful and given by some thoughtful, wonderful people. Third, I mean it when I say it does get better. The emotions are temporary. The situation is temporary. Stick it out, man, and you're going to be just fine in the long run.

Godspeed to you.

[This message edited by AbandonedGuy at 12:09 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Update: So I stayed at a hotel last night to try and clear my head over the whole situation. I called her today and told her to be truthful with me if she really wanted to make this marriage work out. Her reply to me was “I don’t think we can come back from this. I’m not in love with you anymore.” I then asked her again was this just sex with him and she told me no there is definitely feelings there. Well I’m my mind then that means she doesn’t really want to work this out so I told her she could go find an apartment and we can will separate.

Please , please don't make the mistake of going to MC at this point

I did that and regret it tremendously

You can blow up her world and report her to management.

I’m not a spiteful person. She made her decision that’s on her to live with. She will regret it one day and I will move on.

Sorry to hear about your situation BB. You are correct in that she's made her choice. You are also correct that if it was a one-time accident it would be different but she obviously gave up her family for the other man. Though it may not feel like it, she's doing you a favor by not stringing you along. Make sure you hire a very good men's lawyer to handle your divorce. Also, state that her infidelity is the reason for divorce even if you're in a no-fault state. Blow this up to your family and friends. You might be able to use notification of her HR department as leverage in drafting the divorce agreement but talk to a lawyer about this idea first. Stay in the marital home; she is the one who must move out if anyone is to move out. Take care of yourself and take care of your children.

And remember that her actions have nothing to do with you. She's gotten older and not as attractive as she used to be and a younger guy made her 'feel' hot again. Her fantasy will be short lived. She doesn't believe this yet but no younger guy is going to stay with her for a long period especially knowing that she's a cheater. He'll move on as soon as a younger woman gets his attention. He's having fun with her now but that's it. He's not emotionally involved. He'll dump her within a year or two if she can keep him interested that long.

I told her she could go find an apartment

Definitely go back home. She shouldn't run you out of the house. When I was going through this my xWW told me the same thing and asked me to leave. I packed a bag, called my brother to make sure I could come to his house and actually got to my car before I just said "F*** this! Why the hell should I move out?" I walked back in and told her I wasn't going anywhere. She could go to the guest room or her BF's but I was staying in my house.

I'd say now to blow this thing up with her work as well but I think I'd be a little strategic about it first. I'd talk to an attorney before you do anything else and also I'd get some financial separation done ASAP as well. Start your own bank account, move your direct deposits, close joint credit cards, take half of any savings that are liquid and put them into your own account. Get yourself protected.

Also if she gives you any issue about moving back home then be really careful around her. She might throw a false DV charge against you to get you out of the house. It has happened here a lot. Get a VAR and just carry it with you when you talk to her. It will allow you to protect yourself and also this whole time can be a blur. It is nice to make sure you can relisten to conversations with her to remember exactly what is being said.

Take a look at the 180 up above and practice it faithfully. Get that attorney and get a Divorce filed. If you start acting forcefully now you'll feel better about yourself and this whole terrible situation.

[This message edited by beenthereinco at 12:58 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Her reply to me was “I don’t think we can come back from this. I’m not in love with you anymore.”

Well, at least she has provided you with clarity.

This is the case where you need to park your heart and let your mind run the show. See a lawyer yesterday if not sooner, and get all of the knowledge you can about how to divorce...all possible options for action. Figure out what is best for all parties, especially the kids, and move out. Keep it business-like to the maximum humanly possible extent, and just get on with the "conscious separation".

Sorry to hear of your situation, BucBlitz, but there it is. Now is the time for action. They'll be plenty of time to mourn later.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 12:56 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]

Well there it is, BucBlitz. You just got your answer on what to do.

She's checked out. It's imperative that you don't hang your hat on her running back into your arms. You need to, as they say, lawyer up. Start to detach from her emotionally. If you're angry, use that for now. If you're sad, then vent to your loved ones, to us, to whoever will listen, and distract distract distract. Exercise when you can to get those endorphins flowing, those will help carry you through the worst of this.

You're going to be okay, man. This too shall pass.

You are a better man than me. I'm sorry you are going through this.

File for D as soon as possible and get her to agree to spousal support and child custody etc while she's giddy from her new found love. She'll be agreeable.

The younger man doesn't want to raise your kids or be married to an older woman. He'll soon toss her out and she'll try to crawl back.

Get all the paperwork signed by her asap while she's agreeable - and before her world comes crashing down by reality.