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But damn, being able to wrap my arm around someone, hold them close, feel their heartbeat and warmth and watch a dumb movie just sounds... really, really nice. Even if I don't stay over, even if nothing else happens, just to have a calm, quiet, relaxing dinner and movie, no expectations, no pressure, no baggage, no hurt feelings or tension, letting it go where it goes.

That's kind of where I've been at, but I also vacillate between that, and not wanting to deal with someone else's baggage, or have them deal with mine. I'm of the opinion that if anyone is over the age of about 30 or so, baggage is pretty much a given.

Sisoon - That sounds like an excellent time! Flamenco guitarists have always fascinated me. I don't know how they are able to pluck that fast and that accurately. Very happy to hear about you enjoying time well spent with your wife.

I don't know how they are able to pluck that fast and that accurately.

Truth. From my seat, I had an excellent view of his hands. His body looked incredibly relaxed. I think I could see his chest rise and fall as he inhaled and exhaled. And his fingers just flew. It was almost literally incredible. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't believe it.

He reminded my of Muddy Waters. I heard Muddy live 2 or 3 times. The first time knocked me out.

The Nighthawks opened. Lots of movement by the band; so-so music. Muddy's band came out; less movement, more music. Muddy came out, leaned against a bar stool, moved almost nothing but his hands, and the sound and the music just blew both plainsong and me a.w.a.y.

Of course, some great musicians move along with the music they play, but I guess I fixate on anomalies, like a musician making a lot of great music while being still.

Talent, determination, and practice, I guess.

RMNP is truly a magical place. There's no place like it. I'm glad you got to experience it. Did you do the drive up Trail Ridge Road?

When I was a kid, up until the time I left home, pretty much every summer included a two-week trip to Colorado, with at least a week at RMNP, and no visit was complete without at least one drive up Fall River Road. A campground near Estes Park was the "home base". I think "magical" is a good starting point for a description. After High School, I spent several summers guiding backpacking trips and before the season started, several of us would spend a week or so summitting at least a couple of the fourteeners of the front range.

I haven't been back to Colorado in almost 25 years . I decided two years ago that I was going back, and driving the convertible up Pike's Peak and up Trail Ridge Road, and maybe even Fall River. I had replaced all my camping gear that needed replacing (new tent, new stove (I really miss my Peak1), cook gear was OK, pots never wear out ), was all set to pack up in a few weeks, then got laid off. It's still on my list, maybe for next summer.

I live more on the front range, right in front of the mountains.

Love the plains too, it's just as much a magical place as the mountains, just "different." Most hurry right through on their way through, totally missing out.

What I remember is driving through the entrance to RMNP, driving awhile, and then pulling over when we saw some huge mountains towards the west. It was late June and there was snow on the peaks, which I didn’t expect. It was drizzling where we were but the sun was setting behind the mountains and it was a stunning sight.

At some point after we drove for awhile, we came upon a parking area. So we pulled over and walked downhill a bit, on rocks and railroad ties, until we found a small camping area next to a whitewater river. The same river that winds throughout the area I assume. It was nature at its finest. But we got there late and spent too much time shopping and doing the tourist thing in Estes Park. We would have stayed longer but our eldest daughter was being a pain in the ass and we needed to make our hotel check-in in Cheyenne at a decent hour. So the park visit was short but sweet.

So the short answer is I don’t think we drove up too high, or the name of the road we were on. Wish we had a few more hours to soak it in. The ultimate destination was the Black Hills of SD, which was also beautiful.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 7:47 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]

I don’t think we drove up too high, or the name of the road we were on.

If it was paved, it was probably Trail Ridge Road. Fall River Road is unpaved and almost wide enough for a single car, hence only one way to the top where it joins the main road. Once you're on it, you're pretty much committed to making it all the way to the visitors center at the top....

The ultimate destination was the Black Hills of SD

Another absolutely beautiful area. Mom grew up in the Lead/Central City/Deadwood area, before moving to IL as a teenager and I still have a lot of relatives (that I haven't seen in 40 years) in the Dakotas (a lot of whom only spoke German up into the 40's, part if the so-called Rußlanddeutsche that came to the Dakotas in the late 1800s/early 1900s)) so that's another area I spent a lot of time in as a kid....

[This message edited by tbkjcn at 9:01 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]

Of course, some great musicians move along with the music they play, but I guess I fixate on anomalies, like a musician making a lot of great music while being still.

I agree with you on that one. One of my favorite guitarists is John Petrucci of Dream Theater. He will play these amazingly fast and intricate pieces, and his demeanor on stage makes him look like he is chilling out at a neighborhood bbq. He'll make the squinched "guitarist face" every now and again, but you can tell he's totally relaxed.

Sounds like you have spent a lot of quality time in this fine state, tbk. Let me know if you ever come back for a visit. I would be able to see Pikes Peak from my front yard if it weren't for the neighbor's 50ft spruce tree.

Sal - Sounds like you were pretty close to RMNP, which is towards those big mountains you saw to the west. Did you get a chance to check out the Stanley Hotel? It was the inspiration for Stephen King's novel "The Shining". Last time we were up there, we saw a moose and her calf in a pond right next to the hotel.

Incarnate -

Turns out she loves the movie Anchorman, and I can quote it just about verbatim. Neither of us have seen it in a while, so we're gonna watch it.

Mention the Ron Burgundy podcast. It is awesome. Better than Anchorman 2 at times. Just something you 2 could listen to while say, travelling somewhere.

Just something funny to build off of. The Peter Dinklage one is hilarious.

If it was paved, it was probably Trail Ridge Road.

It was definitely paved. I would describe it as the main road into the park.

Another absolutely beautiful area. Mom grew up in the Lead/Central City/Deadwood area

That's for sure. We were in the same neck of the woods I think. We crossed from WY into SD and saw prairie and rolling hills for miles in all directions. Pretty yellow flowers were blooming by the millions. First stop was Wind Cave NP, then Mt. Rushmore, and onto our hotel in Keystone where we stayed for a couple of days. Completely touristy, but still a lot of fun and good food and drink.

Sal - Sounds like you were pretty close to RMNP

Losfer, we were definitely in the park. We had to stop at the entrance and pay $25 to get in, and then drove fairly deep into it (as far as I know - I can get lost pretty easily). If that wasn't the park, then someone dressed like a park ranger pulled a fast one on me.

Did you get a chance to check out the Stanley Hotel? It was the inspiration for Stephen King's novel "The Shining".

No, but we must have driven right by the hotel and not known any better. We sure spent enough time on 34. That's too bad, it would have been cool to see.

Sal - If you paid $25 to get in, you were definitely in the park. One of my favorite places in the state. I'm glad you got to share some of that beauty with your family.

Let me know if you ever come back for a visit.

It is still mostly on my short-term plans, probably next year. After all, I updated all my camping gear from 35 years ago, can't let it go to waste. And I want pictures of my S2k on top of Pike's Peak

I would be able to see Pikes Peak from my front yard

Hmm, my old job had an office in Simla, am I in the vicinity?

Hmm, my old job had an office in Simla, am I in the vicinity?

Kinda. I'm a lot closer to the mountains than that. I'll leave it at that.

Yesterday was... rough

Had a therapy session. Started off okay, catching up my therapist with what has gone on over the last 2 weeks,me choosing to increase my dosage of propranalol myself (which she enthusiastically approved of due to her saying she could immediately see the effects; different mode of dress, different way I carried myself, steady and intense eye contact, etc... she said that I immediately felt like a more powerful person this time around). She also approved of me going out and meeting the woman I met, as she said it seemed to rapidly rebuild my confidence.

Then we got into the EMDR. We didn't have much time, but it was.... intense. Stressful. I was able to push through without disassociating, but the instant I left the office, I was in a disassociative cloud for the rest of the day. However, the lady I've been talking to messaged me, instead of me messaging her, so I think I've made an impression. We ended up chatting solid for six hours. LOTS of heavy flirting, lots of pic trading, and she showed me some of her more suggestive boudoir photography (nothing nude, but still some pretty attractive stuff), and I commented on one of the pictures in particular; she was laying on a bed with a sheer white sheet partially covering her (enough to retain the vestiges of modesty), her head resting on a bright red pillow. The angle was from up by her face, shooting down across her body, her face turned towards the camera, eyes closed.

ME:

So, we're looking at the pose here, the color composition, the lighting, it has a LOT of subtle elements to it that I really appreciate.

The pose itself, with your legs spread and the position of your hands and arms, that is definitely suggestive.

But then the angle of the shot puts -you- in the focus, your expression, instead of your attributes. It doesn't turn you into a thing, a vessel, it keeps you as a person as the subject. It changes the entire mood of the photo.

The eyes are drawn to your face and not your body.

HER:

You have a way with words

ME:

I am a writer, after all. bows

Anyone, anyhow, can photograph a nude body and be like "Look, here is an attractive person who is naked. Find your satisfaction."

But there is an art to finding a way to do that that brings more to the table, that turns it from just an enticing photo into something that is more, something that has extra layers to it.

HER:

So....you think I'm attractive? 💁‍♀️🤣

ME:

Well, yeah. I mean, did I not seem to?

We went from there to get goofy and giggly together, trading pictures of us making dorky/screwed up faces into the camera, and the conversation resumed, but much warmer and flirtier after that. It sort of pulled me back in from my disassociation.

It feels good to be wanted and desired, or even just accepted again, to not feel like my face and my body and my mind and my personality are heaps of rotting garbage.

[This message edited by Incarnate at 8:13 AM, September 25th (Wednesday)]

Dude...2x4 time:

You really need to step away from this.

You are in absolutely NO condition to be dating.

As you said, you are having trouble dealing with the whole situation (your on some strong meds and have just started therapy which left you drained and in a fog) and you want to make it even more complicated? That makes no sense at all.

I (we) get that you are looking from some validation after having your wife take a shit all over you, but this isn't the way to do it. Looking outside yourself for that validation is EXACTLY what was broken in your wife for her to do it. Why do you think this will be good for you.

To WornDown:

I do appreciate your feedback. I understand where you're coming from, and I can see where you would get that from my post here. I spoke to my therapist about exactly those concerns, that I'd be diving into something that would put me in the same place as I am in right now, etc. Her suggestion was that I make sure I keep it absolutely casual, open, and honest about what I am looking for and where I am. To pull out if I start feeling myself develop any deeper emotional connections, but that what she saw in the changes to my confidence and bearing were completely different to what she saw before I discovered the infidelity, and directly after the aftermath.

Of course, the primary thing we are dealing with is FOO trauma, so she is probably approaching it from that angle.

I... am going to go on this date. I am going to meet her face to face, and I'm gonna keep chatting with her, at least for now. I feel like this is something I need to do, and if I don't, I will regret it. But, again, I am making no expectations as to this being anything more than casual. I am excited for the experience, and I recognize the rebuilding of who I once was. This time, though, I am leaving the rose tinted glasses in the trash.

I do appreciate the 2x4, even though my instinct is to block it... it's the fencer in me. I was, after all, asking for advice, and I do appreciate you giving it to me.

I don't think that isolation and avoidance are things that I need right now, and neither does my therapist. But a controlled, casual, no expectations encounter with someone who is legitimately attracted to me, and I am legitimately attracted to, well, I think that has the potential to be very positive.

The disassociative effects from therapy have to do with the subject matter I was dealing with, which I won't get into here. I've hinted/stated it elsewhere, and I don't feel like elucidating right now.

I do appreciate your concern. I will keep my eyes open, and I will keep myself in check.

Incarnate:

Propranolol(Inderal) is a heavy duty drug. I took it for some time, along with Lanoxin for repetitive heart arrhythmia incidents. Hope it's working well for you.

Disassociation is something that DS, who is 28, has been dealing with since he was a child. My first clue was when he woke me at age 10 in the middle of the night and asked, "Dad, who am I?" It freaked me out.

All the best on your upcoming date.

I don't think that isolation and avoidance are things that I need right now, and neither does my therapist.

No, isolation and avoidance are bad. But that's what friends are for. Not getting emotionally entangled with an other woman. And if you think in your emotionally wrecked state (by your own admission) that you aren't going to catch feelings, you're wrong. (Emotionally, you're a drowning man looking for a liferaft)

It's the collective wisdom of SI that people fresh off infidelity/divorce aren't emotionally ready for a new relationship. I don't know how versed your therapist is in this stuff, but over the years we've seen hundreds, if not thousands, of people make the same arguments for dating immediately as you are.

The almost all end in disaster and more heartbreak. (I say almost, because I'm sure there's that 1 in 1000 where it worked out).

Propranolol has been a huge help to me. A game changer actually. I hope it does the same for you Incarnate.

I'm with Worn though - have to admit that I cringed a bit when you posted that you are dating again. I hope things work out for the best.

A six hour conversation with lots of flirting. That’s keeping things casual?

I dunno, I’m not going to tell you don’t do it, although I don’t think it’s wise, just don’t lie to yourself either. The feelings are already there, this will not be casual.

Alright. I've had this on my mind all day, and I refrained from responding so that I wouldn't give out a knee-jerk defensive response, which I almost did a few times.

Before I say anything, I really do appreciate all of you. I think it's awesome that we do look out for each other and we do speak from our own experiences to help each other out in these incredibly tough times we're going through.

And you know what, I had a half a book typed up down there. It was all irrelevant.

I appreciate your advice, I understand your points, and I will act accordingly. I am still going to have dinner and drinks with her, because I asked her to come out, and she really is a fun and pleasant person to talk to, and she would make a good friend, flirty or not. Even if nothing happens (which I reiterate is fine with me), I only seek to enjoy my time with her at whatever mutual level we reach.

I will crosspost this to the other updated areas (I am actually working on consolidating my wild posting habits... all other updates will be on the Rose Amongst the Rocks thread)

Fair enough brother! Have a good time