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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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Shocked123 posted 12/15/2018 09:01 AM

I sent you a private message. Too much detail and didn't want to upset any newcomers.
Hang in there. Things will get better, every so slowly, but it will happen.

Alongtimeago posted 12/17/2018 21:55 PM

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum, please excuse me if I'm not posting in the right area.

My H has bipolar disorder, and was searching for massage parlors in his mania, and going to the parlors when he was in his depression. He didn't hide it from me, but I wasn't able to talk him out of it either. My H was sexually abused as a child, and was having flashbacks and nightmares which were triggering his mood swings. The parlors were only one of many poor choices during that time, however the other issues weren't related to infidelity, but still destructive to the relationship.

We are now at 22 months after I vigorously confronted him about his behavior, and he finally made an appointment with his physician, and was referred to a psychiatrist. He has made tremendous progress thus far with managing his bipolar moods, and feels that his medications are working much better now.

While I can recognize that he has put in tremendous effort to deal with his history of abuse, and is functioning much better, I find that I am still not able to trust him at all. Not even a little bit.

I was wondering if there is anyone who has built some level of trust back into their relationship with a bipolar spouse? Our relationship is very strong, outside of the issues with my H's mania and depression. The bipolar disorder will always be there, and my H has a tremendous amount of self loathing, which was only made worse with the massage parlor visits.

Shocked123 posted 12/18/2018 07:35 AM

Try the spouses/partners with personlaity disorders. There are also a lot of talk about Bi-polar disorder.
I'm sorry your H chose to stray during his manic phases. I'm sure that even though you know it was probably due to his illness, it still hurts terribly.
MY SIL has the same disorder and acted out sexually when she was sinlge a well as married.
I hope you have been tested for STD's.
Keep in touch with us. A lot of us who care about you.

Perdita1 posted 12/19/2018 07:46 AM

Just wanted to check in and say Iím thinking about everyone on this forum. I read often, even though I canít always post. Welcome to the newcomers on this thread - as the forum title says, I can relate, though I wish we were not all in this situation.

Perdita1 posted 12/19/2018 07:57 AM

Clara - I second what Shocked says about men in Asia hiring women for Ďcompanyí for days - it is apparently very much a thing. My own WH has told me of colleagues who have different girls in different Asian cities for when they travel there, and I should imagine the money is relatively good to hire someone for so long so I wouldnít be surprised if the women who are doing this are aiming to get this kind of Ďrepeat businessí - it makes financial sense for them, and that is their main objective.

Echo86 posted 12/19/2018 15:41 PM

Hi everyone,

Iím new to these forums and am so grateful to have found them. I am 32 with no kids.

In a nutshell,
-together with husband for 11+ years, married for 2.5+ years
-he had lied about spending earlier in the year on several occasions, particularly about supporting his family and making other ďinvestments,Ē prompting me to resent hiim and pare down sex (I was also stressed due to job issues and other things)
-First I uncovered porn. Then dug deeper. Dday was last Monday. Heís been going to massage parlors for happy endings. 2x was intercourse. He says he used protection - I got checked last weekend. I estimate about 10 times total.
-he also spent $5,000 at a strip club one night in May, alone.
-I kicked him out 2 days after Dday. He now has his own apartment (2 blocks away from me) and I kept our place.
-He is now: remorseful, crying, not justifying it but explaining that this was due to lack of sex, stress, depression, and is uncharacteristic of him. Sort of true, but lying IS characteristic of him - and thatís the bigger problem for me. Begging for another chance but understands completely if I decide to leave for good. Checks in at least once a day. He thinks heís a pussy for all the lies and has offered full transparency and access to all electronic devices and accounts.
-I am: tired, unable to concentrate at work, experiencing all the emotions, confusion on next steps, but trying to focus on my well being. Iíve already seen seen a therapist, signed up to a gym and am journaling. Above all I feel alone. I do have supportive parents who live near by and Iím so thankful for that. Going in and out between hope, panic, dread, etc. i REALLY donít know what to do. Iím giving myself time to figure it out, but I worry Iíll never know if Iím making the right decision. My family sure as hell wants me to leave, but I know this is my choice. All I know for sure right now is that I need a lot of time.

Personality wise, my husband is the type of guy who walks in and lights up the room. Everyone loves him and thinks heís hilarious. He seems like a good, kind soul. No one would expect this.

I plan on visiting here often as I navigate all of this. Thank you for opening up your hearts and stories and sharing your feelings. Itís comforting to know Iím not alone. Iíve spent all day reading your posts instead of working (must not do that anymore).

Just wanted to introduce myself and say thank you.

[This message edited by Echo86 at 3:49 PM, December 19th (Wednesday)]

Shocked123 posted 12/19/2018 21:12 PM

Welcome to a your new group of friends. You will probably never find people who understand you more than on SI.
A few things struck me about your post and many others will come along with their own observations and advice.

He's been going to massage parlours for happy endings, 2x intercourse and you figure about 10 visits.
--keep digging. Why do you think it's 10 times, who told you intercourse twice? Again, dig and dig again. There is always more. I found out the hard way and the TT (tickle truth) is a killer.

He spent 5K on one night alone at a strip club
On what? One of the times he had intercourse? The other time was a bargain? 5K buys you a lot of services in a strip club. Your H was enjoying a deluxe nght out.

He blames depression, lack of sex with you, stress (sure we don't have the same husband?).
Lots of depressed and stressed people don't cheat.

Uncharacteristic of him?
Most certainly, otheriwse you would not have married him, correct?

Full transparancy of hs devices. That's great, now that he may be hiding his further activities. Perhaps you should be looking at his location history on his phone, pull all detailed billing of his calls randomly from years past. You may be surprised at what you find. The more bills I request, the more I find. I'm talking years, not months.
And remember, you don't need a cell phone to simply walk into a massage parlor. No calls doens't mean no rende-vous. They also text which with some cell phone companies cannot be traced. There are apps that can be downloaded every day and reased.You can even leave your phone at the office so your location history shows you are at work.
Beware of these tricks.

You joined a gym etc...
Good for you! Keep it up. See friends, join a group. fundraise, whatever it takes to help you feel better about yourself without him around. You've taken some very positive steps already.

Your family would like you to leave him.
You will do what's best for you in due time. There is no rush to make any decisions. Don't give in to pressure from them or your H. You have the right to think this through completely. Part of that is knowing what you are dealing with. Again, push for the truth.

Lastly, nobody ever expects this of their H. We all had what we thought was a decent man who loved and respected us as much as we did them. Never for a second did I think my H would disrepect me in such a way. Never sustpected such a thing and that's why it took me so long to figure it out and only because I came actoss it quite uinnocently.
Otherwise, he would probably still be at it.
That's what hurts the most. They probably would not have stopped if we had not found out.

So now we are left questionong, why did you stop once you found out and feel so remorseful. Why didn't you feel remoseful enough to simply stop?

Because we put an end to your cheating when we found out. Or at least we think we did.....

I hope you don't regard all my comments as negative. I am not as kind as some others on this site. I am a no nonsense, no BS type of person and simply sharing a few arguments with you in case your H tries to woo you back and you end up in rugsweeping/minimizing mode.

I know you care about and love your H. He needs to do the work to figure out why he thought what he was doing was somehow justified.

It would have been so easy to simply say:
Echo86, we need to talk. I'm not happy about (insert problem here), I bet you would have listened.
He chose not to communicate this to you becaue it then gave him permission to run around.

Boo hoo, my wife is so mean. Whaww whaww, she woulnd't have sex with me last might. I work hard, I deserve this.
What she doesn't know won't hurt her.

I bet all those thoughts ran through his mind. He needs to figure out why.

Can't concentrate? You're normal. Think only about this problem? I understand perfectly.

You are well surrounded. Please continue posting so we can offer a some friendly advice. Every time I read a newcomer's story, my heart breaks a little more.
You are in for a ride of self-discovery, You will question a lot of things about yourself but please, know this,

THis is not your fault. This is 100% on him.

The kind folks on SI finally got through to me about that. Took a long time but I get that part of it now.

Good luck

Echo86 posted 12/19/2018 22:39 PM

Thank you Shocked123 ❤️ Thank you for not BSing. I appreciate it more than you know. Sending you so much love and gratitude.

Also, to answer your questions, he never cleared his google history, so I saw every place he ever went using google maps since probably 2015. I also have all his credit card logins, email logins, etc. Youíre right to keep asking for more though. As much as I hate to admit it, I think Iíll find something unpleasant. Maybe Iím trying to take it in doses... I just texted him asking for access to his phone records, which he canít clear. Unfortunately he remained on a family plan so this might be tricky, but heíll figure it out. I will keep searching for the truth.

[This message edited by Echo86 at 10:44 PM, December 19th (Wednesday)]

rebplay posted 12/28/2018 20:51 PM

Clara- Iím so sorry you find yourself here. Itís overwhelming devastating. Thereís no understanding the behavior- ever. We can learn about it but because we just donít cross that line, itíll never make complete sense. Iím just being honest. It takes a very long time to start processing and dealing with the situation. Itís possible, but itís a hard, long road and your h has to be willing to do whatever you need. Youíre first in this sincerio, not your hís issues. Itís not your job to make him feel better or just get over it. He owes it to you to put your feelings and needs first to even begin the long journey of healing.

Lisa- Iím truly sorry you have to be here too. Unfortunately they never ever tell everything at the beginning or possibly ever. You donít have to decide right away if you want to work threw it or not. This is on your time. Iím so sorry your first husband put you through infidelity as well. Thatís just crushing. My own h knew what it felt like to be cheated on and so did I before him. I Thought we had a pact that we would never do that to each other. I still donít understand after almost four years.

rebplay posted 12/28/2018 21:02 PM

Along time ago- trust is extremely hard to build back. I was so trusting before but after four years out, I still donít completely trust and am always a little suspicious of even small things. Itís gotten better overall but sadly I donít believe for me, trust will ever be what it was.

Echo- thereís no excuse for his cheating. Not giving him enough sex is not an excuse. Thereís no reason a spouse should ever cheat. His saying that is blaming you. He has to eventually accept openly to you that it is his fault, it was his choice. Your feelings of not focusing, being overwhelmed, variety of emotions is normal so early out. Just getting up and going to work is a great accomplishment during the early phase. Be kind to yourself. Do nice things for yourself. You owe him nothing right now. Take your time deciding what you want. Itís not your job to comfort him and make him feel better. Itís about you right now. Your feelings and your needs come first.

Clara1 posted 12/29/2018 23:18 PM

Hi everyone, a piece of information I found out about recently may have been the last straw for me. Brief history, dday was 3 months ago, when my H confessed his 2 1/2 year happy ending massage habit, including a having sex with one of them for 1 1/2 years, taking her on two trips and spending a significant amount of money on her. Heís very remorseful, doing all the work,etc. Iím very torn about R. A few days ago I learned that prior to his confession to me, he had sent her a text to end contact, she insisted they meet in person, he went and instead of ending it, he had sex with her. This was just days before our 34th wedding anniversary. The level of complete disrespect he had for me and our marriage is unbelievable. I think Iím done, I think that was the last straw. Iím exhausted of living under this dark cloud.
Me: BS, 60 yrs
Him: WS, 60 yrs
M: 34 yrs
2 adult DDs

Shocked123 posted 12/30/2018 14:07 PM

That's horrible. If he's been with her for 1 and a half years, why is she considered a prostitute and not categorized as a traditonal affair?
He may be paying her but that is not unlike many men who keep a woman on the side and buy them gifts.
Are you sure there isn't more to the long term prostitute story?
How old is she? Is there a possiblity that if you end this marriage he will continue to see her socially?
You're sure this isn't his "girlfriend"?
I am so sorry he did such a stupid thing. You'd think that by the time people get to a certain age they would be smart enough but our H's have proven age has nothing to do with emotional intelligence or maturity.
Keep us posted. Maybe this latest slip is what you needed to make a decision. I think sometimes I wait for such a slip so I can make up my mind without looking back.

rebplay posted 12/31/2018 22:34 PM

Clara- Iím sorry to hear of the latest information. They donít care what ďtimeĒ they do these acts- near a holiday, anniversary, at the worst time in your life. My husband picked the only time I had been through something awful to cheat. I really wondered how I could stay with such a selfish person. He can be so nice and helpful that I wondered if he was playing a role trying to be the good husband. But how can a good husband do terrible things? Iíll never know or understand. Iíve got a decent functional life with some good moments. Thatís what Iíve chosen but our relation will never be the same. Thereís no easy, right answer.

Echo86 posted 1/5/2019 10:22 AM

Itís been a while since anyoneís posted here so I just wanted to drop in and check on everyone.

I apologize for the ramble in advance.

Iím almost one month out since D-day. Iím still separated, talking to WH here and there, and generally not confident enough to make a final decision yet, though I continue to lean toward D. Heís supposed to come by today to pick up the rest of his stuff and Iím a bit nervous to see him. I also have to pay my rent for January and Iím super nervous to see my landlords - I havenít told them heís moved out, donít know if I should, but wonít lie either if they ask any questions. (I live in a small building and have a good relationship with them).

Had my second therapy session yesterday and have been going to the gym. Navigating this new life is uncomfortable still. The thing Iím struggling with most at the moment is obsessing over his whereabouts, emails, phone bill, google activity, etc. Iíve spent way too much time doing this and spoke to my therapist about it yesterday. Itís getting to the point where itís interfering with my work and I know I need to stop. I think Iím searching for another lie to feel better about leaving him, or to see if heís lying about anything currently to assess whether heís being truly honest and transparent. I know itís ridiculous because I have all the evidence I need and realize there are other ways to engage in bad behavior without me knowing. Itís also just taking time away from me focusing on me and my life. Iím really trying to find more productive substitutes for doing this but itís hard when all your friends are occupied with their relationships and lives and you are home alone with too much time on your hands.

Iím still on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster. Ok one day, angry the next, sad the next, etc. Just taking it one day at a time and trying to stay in the present moment as much as possible.

Anyway, thatís my update. I hope everyone is ok out there. Sending lots of love to all.

Perdita1 posted 1/12/2019 07:08 AM

How is everyone doing?

Echo - how is the emotional rollercoaster treating you? Did you see him and your landlords?

Not much to update from here. The holidays were a nice distraction but back to the bitter reality now.

Atacompleteloss posted 1/12/2019 17:09 PM

Hey all - been at this reconciliation thing after DDAY for months now. And man is it hard. Some good days but then the triggers and the anger come crashing in like a 12 foot wave! It shocks me how I can go from one day being positive and ok to feeling sad/angry and looking at my WH makes me ill. I know its all part of the process and normal, but it does take its toll, doesn't it!!!?? I will say WH is doing all the work - like literally doing everything he is supposed to and is working so very hard to repair and rebuild. He has been consistent for 9 months at it and I have found nothing that points to ANY inconsistencies or going back on his old behaviors. He is remorseful, passed numerous polys, steady and loving. Yet I still feel broken and angry much of the time. Today was a rough day after a few really good weeks.... triggers came barreling in for some reason. Anyways, just wanted to rant a bit to you wonderfully understanding and supportive group of awesome people! I don't write much but read often to keep up with everyone. :)

Shocked123 posted 1/14/2019 16:45 PM

I am not familar with your story but I could have written exactly what your wrote, down to the timeline. Sounds like we are living similar issues and have similarly motivated H's who want to do the work.
Still, sometimes I find it sad to see my H working so hard to make me happy when deep down I'm not sure I will ever feel the way I should about him.
Not saying I feel sorry for him, just sad that he has put us in this fake type of "making nice' just to reassure me that he's a good H. I feel that we had a "fake marriage" before D day and now it's a "fake marriage" with all the nice nice to make up for 12 years of cheating.
Guess cheaters never really win in the end because they lost us the first time they cheated.
BS never win, even when their WS is trying because we question their motives and don't truly trust their actions.
stuck between a rock and a hard place.

marji posted 1/14/2019 17:50 PM

Still, sometimes I find it sad to see my H working so hard to make me happy when deep down I'm not sure I will ever feel the way I should about him.

Shocked the only "should" on your part is that you should do whatever you can to feel good again about yourself; the only thing you should do is what's good for you. You're under absolutely no obligation to feel any way about your H. No need to feel sad to see him working hard to make you happy--he's fortunate that you are still in his life and giving him the opportunity to show you his efforts. He was violating your relationship and disrespecting you for 12 years; if he is truly remorseful then I would think he is feels tremendous gratitude for your still being with him, sharing your life and allowing him to be a better person. Not everyone who chooses a bad way to live is given another chance at redemption.'

In the support group I attend some members have been dealing with post discovery for ten or fifteen years; their husbands are still trying their best to be their best; it is that advice that my H's sponsor gives to my H--it's to now become the very best husband possible.

You're only responsibility is to yourself--to decide what's best for you and which way you think you will be happiest.

Shocked123 posted 1/14/2019 19:03 PM

Thanks Marji, you're right.
I guess I mean that I should feel unconditional love, that I should respect and trust him, that I should still feel the way I did when I married him. It's unfortunate he took that away from us.
He violated that beautiful innocence of love. He destroyed our life as I thought I knew it. He must now try to fix it. I owe him nothing in return. Repeat as needed....
Marji, I finally found a CSAT and sexual betrayal therapist! Saw her once and she was very understanding at my frustration with our regualr therapist. She also stongly suspects SA for H. Not that I"m surprised. Her suggestion is to set a boundary that he be assessed with the CSAT that she works closely with, then a four way meeting with sessions leading to full disclosure. I just know there is more but feel well surrounded and stronger to face the truth. Only then will I be able to truly evaluate the situation and know if this is worth continued efforts. So thank you for encouraging me to find the right people to talk to. I found them through SANON. Once I am ready, I will be attending group therapy and SANON meetings.
In the meantime you are correct, and let this be a reminder to all:
My H is a lucky man. He has been given the gift of another chance and must at all times prove his worth to me and the children.
It is his time to shine. In the meantime, project ME is underway!

marji posted 1/14/2019 19:24 PM

Awesome, Shocked. Just awesome. You are an inspiration to all of us here on SI; you're going to be a fantastic member of the IRL support group.

Great that you have found new counselors that you like and trust. And so great to know you've got so right an take on this whole situation; yes, his turn to shine, his opportunity. Shocked, you've got your ducks lined up in truly amazing order.

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