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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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kaygem posted 9/9/2018 16:47 PM

Supresse, "the coldness of his heart"... I do think this is one of the things that has shocked me most of all. It is something I NEVER expected from the man I loved (and falsely put on a pedestal).

Going so far as to have intercourse with random whores met on the internet (not prostitutes) to me is almost criminal (well, it IS criminal to the marriage!) Truly, if he had said he murdered someone I could not have been more shocked than I was on Dday. The coldness, indifference, betrayal to his life partner and best friend...I felt as if I was married to a monster! I took long walks in the hills, asking God over and over again..."How? Why? How can I stay? WHY should I stay? WHO IS THIS GUY???"

NOTHING In all my life has shocked me like this has. My entire paradigm changed in an instant, the rosy glasses smashed and in their place dark black ones. My new glasses made me feel like everyone and everything was evil and bad and nefarious.

burn posted 9/10/2018 19:51 PM

Hi Theakronberg and Kaygem! So happy to hear your updates.

So- I had a complete trigger panic attack this weekend and I cant figure out if I feel ridiculous or angry. Kind of need to get it off my chest.
I had to take my eldest out of town for the weekend. After our plane landed Thursday night, I get a notification from our security cameras of something at the front of the house (happens often) but I opened up the video and see that at 10:00 at night, a car pulls into our drive, turns the lights off and someone gets out. Five minutes later they leave. My heart was racing- he waited until I was on a plane and then had someone come over? with my other kid at home? And why five minutes? I watched that video on my phone at least 10 times trying to see who it was and where they went because they didnt go in through the front door. I was freaking out for a good two hours until we were able to get to our hotel and I was able to view the video on a screen larger than my phone. On a bigger screen I could see it was a white prius and a woman in the car....that looked a lot like my daughters best friend. It finally occurs to me to ask my daughter if her friend was at our house tonight. Yep- my daughter left something out front for her and she came by to pick it up. Don't know why she was there for 5 minutes out front, but clearly WH didn't even know she was out there. I felt silly getting myself to that state over nothing. and then pretty angry that he has given me reason to believe that it is entirely possible that he would have someone over to the house as soon as I leave. He has turned me into a paranoid mess. I havent even told him about it yet.'

To make that night even worse- when we got to our hotel room there was an enormous cockroach crawling across the bed! We grabbed our stuff and ran out of there, and got a different room, but I did not sleep a bit that night between getting all worked up over nothing and living in fear of cockroaches.

[This message edited by burn at 7:57 PM, September 10th (Monday)]

whattheh posted 9/10/2018 20:47 PM

Marji, thanks so much for this info! I googled this and have found it very useful and helpful to me. And I agree with your opinion that it applies for many betrayals not just SA.

I gave my H Omar Minwalla's article on the trauma betrayal causes. If you haven't read already I think you might find it helpful--it puts into clear and fairly easy to understand language the effects of the betrayal; it also offers a different perspective about the betrayer. I know your H is not an SA; mine is not either but I think the article goes far to explain the effects of any betrayal on the betrayed and

wheretoturn posted 9/12/2018 11:56 AM

Does any have WS that forget parts of their encounters? I was just sitting here thinking aboat it. WS doesnt rememeber exactly when it all started to happen. They dont remember exactly how many times or the special events we had and was talking with them. I understand it happend a few years ago, but i remember everything from that time.
I hate that he was never able to fill in these gaps.
He wrote my story without even me knowing it and cant fill in the pages so that i have a full book. I guess im just frustrated today about not having full access to my story.

Maclou posted 9/14/2018 02:03 AM

Hi Everyone,
Well we are back from vacation. I took five weeks off SI and to be honest, I felt much better. When I read someoneís story and they talk about D Day2, I wonder if that will be me, when I read a story about someone with an STI, I wonder if that will be me, etc, etc.
I have found this site sooo helpful but at the moment, Iím better off it.
Things with my WH are really good. We are now 13 months post DDay and my major concern was that he couldnít sustain his initial efforts. Well, he has. Every day I see him do something that he would never have done pre infidelity. Mostly itís little everyday things but they mean so much because I know whatís behind them. I have a very different husband to the one I had.
We are making solid plans for our future. While the infidelity does cross my mind several times a day, itís fleeting and the mind movies have stopped. I know that weíre not there yet but weíre definitely getting there.
I hope that youíre all doing well.

kaygem posted 9/15/2018 00:07 AM

Burn, I TOTALLY get that trigger fear of "seeing" something that sends you into a panic. And wow, a huge cockroach on the bed? NOPE! Double crappy night!

WS doesnt rememeber exactly when it all started to happen
. Believe it or not, my WS told me the infidelity started a FULL 3 YEARS before it actually did??? WTH? There is a lot he can't remember.

You know what I wanted him to remember, the exact moment he saw me after the betrayal for the first time. Like what the eff was going through his head? I do remember one time (the 4th and final whore screw) that I saw him after the encounter. I thought he had a weird, guilty look on his face. Like he was distant from me but pretended to be happy to see me. But anyway, he remembers very little. It's taken a HUGE amount of work for him to remember what he has...months and month of me verbally beating it out of him.

Macalou. I understand. I take breaks too. I have particular fears about reading the OC forum, the STD forum and the Dday 2 stuff.

rebplay posted 9/15/2018 18:27 PM

Thea- SO good to hear from you!! I wonder from time to time how you are! Iím disappointed to hear that itís still affecting you so much. Im so sorry. Iím just recently thinking I think Iíd rather split up then continue on, BUT I thought Iíd feel over it more if I werenít with h. But if youíre still struggling with it then my thinking may not be right thatíd Iíd feel relief to go. Ugh. So Iím damned either way huh? Very disheartening. Your girls sound like they are doing great with school and focusing on the future! I hope theyíre continuing to heal! Are you still dating? Anything good happening with it?

Kaygem- I wonder how you are too! Iím so happy for you that youíre doing so well! You sound amazing, really!

Super- thatís great you have the flowers to enjoy and distract you! You deserve something good!

Burn- Iím so very the huge trigger situation. I understand the panic until you figure out if thereís anything going on or not. Itís horrible to live like that. They donít understand the longstanding stress and pain. To never feel completely relaxed and comfortable in the relationship after. So sad and heart wrenching.

Where to turn- some I think they forget, some they hide

Me- doing horrible of recent. Twice my husband has closed his ďlineĒ chat on his Spider-Man game when Iíve asked to see it. Iíve looked through it after and didnít see anything but wonder what heís hiding. He says nothing but I say not giving me the phone immediately says youíre hiding something. Iím not sure if thereís something or not but heís not being immediately transparent doesnít work got me. I had a huge blow up with him. Itís just not good right now. Plus I can tell from his comments that he thinks Iím not ďchoosingĒ to move past this. Heís not being sensitive to me anymore or understanding that this doesnít go away.

marji posted 9/15/2018 18:57 PM

Reb, I am so sorry that your H is giving you such a hard time; crap--they've given us so much that's hard to live with--this new life--they have totally no right to add to it--but they sometimes do.

On transparency--can you make it very clear to him ---again--the importance of it. It doesn't make everything just right but lack of it sure makes for just wrong.

Don't remember if you've already listened but Marnie Breecker two part pod cast is so well worth the 40 or so minutes a listening to. She's talking about SA but so much of what she says, perhaps all of it, is relavent to any type of betrayal and Part two addresses the healing process--no matter what the betrayal. If your H has not already listened I'd encourage (insist on) it. It's like a refresher course in what we all already know but she speaks so well and says it all so simply and persuasively it's like a booster shot.

Also don't remember if you and your H are still working with any C's--ICs, MCs--groups? From what you've said here about your H Im thinking complacency more than any new (old) behaviors and that maybe you're just too darned nice.
I think sometimes I am too--or maybe just very polite? I think my H might becoming complacent too. I would think that while at first they are extremely grateful that we did not D after years of our still hanging in, complacency could well be setting in.

rebplay posted 9/15/2018 20:55 PM

Marji- complacency is a perfect word. Yes, I would say that seems to be the case I havenít checked out the podcast but will! You sure have comforting and helpful words for everyone. You tirelessly continue to move on day to day and help others. Youíre very kind.

marji posted 9/15/2018 23:03 PM

Reb, would your H agree to listen with you? I think it might be helpful.
And thank you for your kind words. Your words and thoughts and good wishes are enormously helpful.

Maclou posted 9/16/2018 09:08 AM

Iím really sorry to hear that.
I know that feeling when something happens to make you wonder, itís awful. Itís happened to me a few times and itís like my stomach has dropped.
It took us a while to get to the point where my WH really got me questioning him about minor things but I used the analogy that pre infidelity, he had a bucket full of trust. His infidelity emptied the bucket.
Every time that I question him about something and he is able to reassure me with his answer, a little bit of trust goes back in the bucket.
He was the one who emptied the bucket. He is the one who wants it to be full again so he has to answer and not be defensive. Defensiveness or refusal to answer causes anxiety and empties a little of the trust that heís built up out of the bucket.
Hope thatís not too confusing and that it helps a little.

IdiotMe posted 9/16/2018 15:35 PM

I read your profile and remember it well because it sounds a lot like my story.
My point in asking you about testing was that I thought you had resumed sexual activity. Now that I know you have not, it worries me that you are going without intimacy of course but even more concerning is the fact that if he was going to parlours regularly, then where is he getting that 'relief' that he was seeking there? Why was his sex drive low with you and not with them?
Bringing this up because my husband also claimed that he had low sex drive, was stressed, tired, too old etc. I had noticed difficulty with erections with me as well and never made a deal about it; didn't want to embarass him.
We had sex 10 time sin 10 years with a 3 year dry spell in that time.
Idiot me, he was at the parlours regularly all that time and it wasn't for erectile dysfunction treatment, believe me.
Once all this came out and we proceeded to hysterical bonding, there was absolutely no problem with sex between us. He enjoys sex very much and there is plenty of it. I asked that he be tested for STI's of course and all was clear because he claims to have never had sex with these women, only a happy ending (yeah, ok, whatever you say). When they tested for the STI's I asked for a testosterone check. Low and behold; very low testosterone! Well, that didn't affect his performance at the AMP, nor has it affected his desire with me now.
So my point is, dig deeper if you have the energy. You have discovered your H was cheating. He has stopped but not resumed attempts at intimacy with you. Just saying that I would keep checking his location and wondering what he's doing to satisfy his sexual urges that he clearly still has if he was going to the parlours.
I don't mean to be unkind or make you worry uncecessarily. I also don't want him pulling the wool over your eyes. What a mess they make for us....

In response to Shocked123:

Well, this past week my husband finally went to a lab to be tested for STD's and we're still waiting for the results as they had to send them by mail for some reason.

I made it very clear to him that I wouldn't touch him (and he had better not even think about touching me) until he was tested for STD's. I've been debating about what I might say to him when we do get the results. I will assume they are negative as I doubt he did anything unprotected but ya never know, right? I sincerely doubt he will initiate with me and I'll have to. I've often wondered in the past if he's scared of women. I'm kind of stuck as I'm pretty sure nothing is going to happen if I don't start it and while I would like to be intimate again, the man is such a dead fish that it's not exactly worth it for me. Ugh. That sounds horrible when I read it. :(

I keep very close watch on him and we've been doing a lot of stuff together which has been nice. It's nice that he's present again. Last night he asked if Tuesday I would want to go to the jewelry store and pick out a wedding band. (We have been married for 20 years but my wedding band doesn't match my engagement ring so I never wear it). I know he's trying to show his commitment to our relationship but then in the back of my mind I wonder if it's all just fake BS on his part and he's just trying to pacify me so I'll stay? Or try and make me trust him again so I'll let my guard down and he can resort back to his extracurricular activities?

One day last week, he was going to go out of town for a few hours to a store, but I told him it would be nice if he took our son with him and then suddenly, he decided we could all go there together on our way down to my mothers house. Who knows if he was planning something then? I made it very clear that any return to massage parlors will result in his ass being kicked to the curb and that won't be a "happy ending" for him personally or financially. But I also gave him a big opening to walk away if he wanted to as well. He was told very directly that if he's not into being married that he should be a decent person and just say so, so we can part ways. I told him that even my xhusband (who I actually have a very good relationship with) was man enough to admit that he didn't want to be married and we divorced rather than being assholes to each other.

Bottom line, I'll probably never trust him again.

I hope things are going better for you Shocked. And everyone else too.

Big thanks to everyone for this thread. It's been very interesting and informative to read everyones situations and I've been greatly helped by the kind words and information from the people on this board.

rebplay posted 9/16/2018 17:44 PM

Idiot me- I feel bad calling you that by the way :). But I get it! I think we all feel like idiots! Good for you for get the testing done before intimacy. It will be a relief to get it back. Not sure what to say about your h being a cold fish. Mine was an iceberg during his infidelity and I wondered if he was having medical issues, which I felt stupid about later when he was avoiding me intirely. Now, heís blah. Not hot, not entirely cold. Iím currently pissed and weíre hands off by my choice. Do you notice your h is more into it if heís feeling emotionally close or other things that help?

Maclou- LOVE your analogy! Right on target! Thank you for your understanding! My h being defensive about his phone, twice now, emptied the bucket for me. It could be nothing but I wonder if heís emotionally attached to someone on their game line. Nobody (as far as I know) lives anywhere near, but heís not showing me, says Iím not trustworthy. It has left me cold.

marji posted 9/16/2018 20:04 PM

Whoa!!! What? Rebplay Your H said you are not trustworthy? Huh??Did I read this right? Should I be laughing/crying? I think Im just angry but that's got to be a joke.

Refusing transparency? Really? Maclou I think your bucket analogy is perfect. Reb maybe your H should read Maclou's post? Seems someone's got to be having a corrective talk with him. Maybe he's thinking about time as in "hasn't enough time passed to get back to normal?" But seems he's in need of a strong reminder about time and how it's best used--so again, that bucket empty/full explanation might be what he needs to see again. On her SA podcast Marnie Breecker speaks clearly on the time issue; also what H's need to do in the time, the long time of possibility.

Im wondering if, because you are such a nice person Reb, that life might becoming too comfortable for your H. It's not about our making them uncomfortable--we don't want to be that kind of person--so it's really about their continuing to remember what they done and what they can do to make amends--to do all they can to heal the grievous wound they have inflicted. I know I said this before but I think your H needs a booster shot to help him continue to realize the new reality and to commit to do all he can to truly make amends.

PS I once had a friend who told me she sometimes hit her husband in the head with a frying pan when he was being dense--I thought that was kind of crazy. That was a long time ago. I've since come to understand the feeling but I resist. I'd probably drop the pan on my foot and wind up in the ER. Betrayal has given me new insights

[This message edited by marji at 8:11 PM, September 16th (Sunday)]

IdiotMe posted 9/16/2018 20:20 PM

Idiot me- I feel bad calling you that by the way :). But I get it! I think we all feel like idiots! Good for you for get the testing done before intimacy. It will be a relief to get it back. Not sure what to say about your h being a cold fish. Mine was an iceberg during his infidelity and I wondered if he was having medical issues, which I felt stupid about later when he was avoiding me intirely. Now, heís blah. Not hot, not entirely cold. Iím currently pissed and weíre hands off by my choice. Do you notice your h is more into it if heís feeling emotionally close or other things that help?

Rebplay, Don't feel bad calling me IM as it doesn't bother me a bit. For me it's a reminder not to be an idiot again like the idiom "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...."

I wonder to myself if it will be a relief to get the STD testing back because honestly, I would be shocked beyond belief if it came back that he did catch something. That would probably be the end for me, as I'm totally grossed out by the him right now the way it is. I can't visualize myself even touching him in any sort of sexual way.


Yeah, I know that's probably an extreme response, but in my mind, I've always equated hookers (Asian Massage Hookers) to drug addiction and disease.

So I can understand why you would be hands off needless to say. I totally get it.

As for when my husband is into it? I have NO idea except to say that he's into it anytime I initiate it. But he will NEVER, EVER, EVER initiate it on his own. I realize now after thinking about all this over the past month that he was like this even when we dated (a million years ago) but I was a young, sex starved maniac, lol, who didn't mind jumping his bones. But never did I think this would HAVE to be a life long pattern. I've never. been with anyone who wasn't into it and truly believed his lack of interest was due to erectile dysfunction. Until this past month, I didn't realize that over all these years, I was the one who started everything and once I stopped, so did our entire sex life. And I did stop. Because rarely did my efforts result in a "happy ending" for me and I got bored with it.

Yes, this is all probably TMI. Sorry.

What the hell is wrong with him? SMDH.

As for your husband hiding the video game chat thing, I'd wonder about that too. It sucks that we can't trust them. What I don't understand is why they want to be with us if they want to cheat? Is this whole sneaking around thing enjoyable to some people? The excitement, or thrill, or some sort of adrenaline rush?

This sort of crap really sucks for us people who are open, honest and direct. Perhaps we are sitting ducks because of this? IDK.

kaygem posted 9/17/2018 01:35 AM

Rebplay, can you clarify? SAY WHAT? YOU are not trustworthy? Totally confused here... maybe a typo? If my fWH said that I'd...well, let me just say it would not be pretty!

kaygem posted 9/17/2018 01:39 AM

Ugh, 19 months out and pain is returning? Mind movies are coming back? sex has been hard because of it. WHY? I'm wondering if it's because I know that in Sept of '16 he tried really really hard to screw two whores? Like I have the most extensive transcript of this (unsuccessful) pursuit. He sounded like an idiot 14 year old, corny, stupid, ridiculous. But I heard it all.... what he wanted to do to her, etc. They never met up but it disgusted me so much. 2 years ago.

This is all very inconvenient because we have so much company.

I thought I was doing well. Now I feel like crap again? He hasn't done anything unkind hasn't changed but I can't seem to let go of the pain. It's like a headache that never goes away and comes out in stabbing, horrible pain for hours at a time until is slightly recedes into the background again... sigh

marji posted 9/17/2018 15:48 PM

Kaygem Im just relying on my now three years out from getting my post graduate degree in EIB--emotionless infidelity betrayal--to offer you my expert opinion which is after "just" a couple of years post discovery, we're all going to still have those bad moments, bad days. But they will pass. Your H has probably been the best, maybe the only best, H for showing deep down, sincere and most importantly, unwavering , commitment to making amends and to being the best H and the best person possible.

So I am very sorry you are having a hard September--but please know you will feel better again--and yes, maybe worse again--but because of time and all the work you are both doing in that time--the bad times will become much less harsh when there and less and less frequent and of much shorter duration.

IdiotMe posted 9/17/2018 17:12 PM

I wish there were a way to "like" posts on this board. Because Marji, your comments are always so kind and thoughtful and I wish I could "like" them.

Hugs to you.

marji posted 9/17/2018 17:54 PM

Thank you IM that's very kind of you to say. I'm sending a "like" right back to ya. I so appreciate the kindness from all the members here. I am very grateful for you and all others for sharing this experience--it all helps. Hugs back to you.

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