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Any advice for reaching this stage?

A little past 10 months for d-day. I found out it was a PA right away by the texts, although it still took him a day to admit it was full on intercourse (I already knew, I knew it as soon as I saw her ugly face in the texting app) There was TT for about 3 months, mostly about places/times. He wrote a timeline months ago, and confessed to some other smaller lies (extent of his porn use and two visits to strip clubs very early in our marriage that he never told me about before). I feel like I probably know 80-90% of the A details from reading texts and dragging it out of him. I have a niggling gut feeling there is something he is holding back on but can't put my finger on it. He swears up and down I know everything (heard that before!) and is scheduling a polygraph. It is hard because we live in a rural place and will have to travel overnight to get it done. Really, he had sex with another woman and that is all I need to know, but for me it is more about him being willing to be vulnerable enough to lay it all out on the table and fully face what he has done. The screaming gut feeling is gone, it is just this lingering doubt.

We are both in IC, he is very transparent, NC, and goes above and beyond at home. I am practicing mindfulness, journaling, taking care of myself in ways I have never done before. I still spiral out frequently (I'd say once every 5-7 days). Sometimes is passes quickly, and other times it lasts a few days or a week. He tries to be supportive, anticipating further triggers and leaving me notes, but I don't want anything to do with him when I feel like this. It's too scary to let him support me. When I get like this, I am always struggling with the fact that he actually did this. I start turning things over in my head.

Rationally, I know that hanging on to this hurt will not stop him or anyone else from doing this to me again, but I feel like through the anger I am protecting myself. I know the stages of grief are not linear, and that time is a critical component. Am I trying to rush? Do I need to work harder at fixing that anger? Any insight or perspectives that helped you reach acceptance?

Honestly, at around 10 months, I think that you're doing very well. Year one is the shock year, where you are just so shocked and unbelieving, that it seems like about 50% of everything that you are told just flies out of your left ear without registering. The pattern year where you find yourself going through the same motions/arguments/emotions over and over and over again, with little variation. Where you're still trying to get stable enough to get out of the ICU unit and into critical care. Right now, what you're doing for self-care is really important and critical for you. Anger is you trying to get the hurt out, which is healthy. But at some point, you need to start taking a cold, hard look at that anger, and dive into it, to figure out what's beneath it. That's a year two sort of thing.

For me, abandonment turned out to be the bottom of my anger. I had to peel back those layers of the anger-onion, until I got to the bottom, which was fear of being abandoned. It took time. There were a lot of side-trips. And a lot of screaming. And then, I had to make the decision to be vulnerable to him again. And that took a very long time. Sometimes going backwards, but as we both wanted R, it was a necessary step/requirement to build a new marriage. I don't think that I got to that place, pretty securely, until year four.

It's not a process you can rush, unless you want to rugsweep. It takes the time it takes. However the fact that you're asking those good questions is really great! It probably seems like time is flowing past at about the speed of a drugged snail, but if you keep reaching out for realizations like needing to move past the anger, needing to figure out when it's safe enough to start becoming more vulnerable, then you're doing really, really well.

It doesn't sound to me like you are trying to rush it. You're normal, you want the pain to ease up and feel better. At 10-months I think a bad day could ruin a good week, because even though we know healing from this is non-linear our expectations don't change.

At 15+months, just past affair season, things for me are surprisingly starting to calm. I'm stuck on two things - one, I think if I let ALL of the pain go, my wife will forget how much she hurt me. I'm still a little hung up on the lack of consequences for the AP.

Anger is protecting you at this point. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Once I'm sure my wife is protecting the marriage with the same vigilance as I am, I'll be able to move on. We're getting pretty close to that point.

As to acceptance, I don't think I will ever get there. And I'm good with that. I know what happened, but I don't think I have to be okay with what happened.

Hurthumiliated - I'm at the same stage as you and the timeline of our WS's coming out of their fog sound similar. Has your WS done anything to uncover why he did this? What is broken within that allowed this to happen? It might be helpful for you to see him doing this.

At least for us it seemed that friction (arguing, fighting, screaming, you name it) had to happen between us to set up a situation to work through tough issues that uncovered behaviors that were not helpful so we could analyze them and adjust them. It really allowed for a lot of introspection for Mr. ISurvived and for me.

@OldWounds - why are you equating acceptance with being okay this happened? To me acceptance means you are not denying that it happened (as in, I still cannot believe it, this cannot be true). I will never, ever be okay that Mr. ISurvived betrayed me but that doesn't mean I don't admit or accept that it happened. Help me understand because maybe I am missing something that I need to address.

There is no need to feel like you have to get to acceptance by a certain point. Sometimes you may think you have reached acceptance, but then discover later on that you weren't quite there. I believe it happens incrementally, and sometimes you may not even realize it right away. It is not something that can be forced. It will happen naturally over time.

As to the anger, I highly recommend listening to some Pema Chödrön to help with that. I have a mod-approved link to her talk on "Dealing with difficult emotions" in my profile. I have Borderline Personality Disorder and Complex-PTSD, which means I have a tendency to become emotionally dysregulated and early on I wouldn't just get angry, I used to full-on rage. Listening to that talk repeatedly over the last 2.5 years has helped my healing immensely and I am better able to handle difficult feelings such as anger now.. It is just over 3 hrs long, but we'll worth the listen.

...why are you equating acceptance with being okay this happened?

I tend to take words at their very literal meaning -- which can be maddening to any of my friends and family. To accept something to me is an affirmation. For example accepting infidelity is akin to accepting defeat or accepting emotional abuse related to the A.

And in this case -- I can accept the person flaws and all, but I'll not ever accept the past behavior.

Acknowledgment is the word I use. I understand that the infidelity happened and that it is real, and none of it is good stuff.

Back in April when WH and I were out of town we attended AA (WH) and Alanon (Me) meetings. The topic of the Alanon meeting was acceptance. One member said that acceptance is remembering without resentment or re-feeling. That was something that absolutely resonated with me. So I know that, at least for me, I will have reached acceptance when I can remember all of the awful things that WH did that have caused me so much pain without re-feeling that pain. Although the pain is less, it's still there. It may always be there. I may never be able to accept what he's done. I'll worry about that if and when the time comes.

[This message edited by CookieMom at 8:56 PM, September 2nd (Saturday)]

Skan, I am glad I sound like I am doing well because I often feel like a hot mess! I agree that the shock is wearing off, and thank you for the suggestion to keep taking care of myself. This has brought up some feeling unworthy/abandonment issues I had from an absent, addict father that I thought I had overcome.

Oldwounds, the two things you said you are stuck on are things I struggle with, too. I'm glad to hear things calmed down for you after affair season. We are rapidly approaching the "anniversary" of their first kiss which quickly escalated, obviously. I'm trying to focus on the tools my IC gave me, like focusing on the now, and the advice I read here that they are just dates, but it is still a struggle. I liked in your second post how you used the word acknowledgement instead of acceptance. That is what I am looking for- I need to be able to acknowledge this happened without spiraling into a "I can't believe he did this to me after all I have done for him and how could he do this to our innocent children" mess.

ISurvivied, it seems like there are several of us with Oct 2016 d-days. I seem to notice those a lot, but maybe it is because I am looking out for them. I have actually considered starting a thread for people with d-days around that time so we could compare notes and experiences as we get closer to that year mark. We have had the same cycle of friction followed by action. My WH (FakeHusband for those who read in WW) has gotten better about that, but for awhile it felt like he only really dug in when I was angry or spiraling out. He still sometimes wallows a bit but seems to pull himself out (he often posts here when he is and I think that helps). You also asked about his whys, and yes he has dug into that. The A was an extension of selfish behavior he has hidden behind his whole life. He did it because he wanted to, and he felt ok doing it because he was comfortable deceiving to get what he wanted. He is still working on this in IC, and his IC has been really helpful in helping him identify learned behaviors and how to replace them. He also had a deep need for external validation, but never communicated that to me. He had found new outlets for validating himself by being vulnerable and authentic in what is left of our relationship.

onlytime, thank you- you are absolutely right, there is no rush and no timeline. My WH always says that this is done at my pace, but I think I feel rushed to stabilize my emotions so that I can decide what to do. I am usually very decisive and am a planner, I like to know what is going to come next and it is hard to be in such chaos for so long. I just finished a book today (Surving an Affair by Dr. Harley- don't recommend) and will start a Pema Chodron book next. I remember reading a recommendation to start with When Things Fall Apart, so I am downloading it now. I will also check out the link to the talk. I have been listening to Ted talks and podcasts about things like self compassion and found them very helpful, so thank you for recommending this one.

Cookie,

One member said that acceptance is remembering without resentment or re-feeling.

Yes, this resonates with me, too! Thank for you sharing that. This is what I am searching for. Maybe I am rushing. I believe this is happening incrementally, as there are some things that i have turned over and over in my head and asked WH about from three different directions and now can think about with a little less pain. I am hoping that the book onlytime recommended will help.

Thank you everyone for the feedback and discussion. SI has helped me immeasurably in this mess. Every time I post, the advice I receive is helpful and the validation and new perspectives help me feel more in control of this painful experience.

October 2016 is when the deception went physical, though I didn't know they'd gone that far until December. As I near my wedding anniversary (a walloping 10 days before he bedded his second partner) I just feel more numb.

I've accepted this part of our life. Doesn't make it hurt less.

HH3 - yes it would be interesting to start a thread for folks with similar d-days. True too that Mr. ISurvived seemed to only dig after we had friction. But maybe that's the way it needs to be. I found that those episodes would allow his bullsh&t to fly and give me the opportunity to dispute it meaningfully. I stood my ground (after EMDR therapy for the trauma) and with each episode we uncovered more and more and more. For Mr. ISurvived it was about another iteration of an addiction designed to run away from life and avoid, avoid, avoid because confronting means you die. He had to unlearn all of that and is still working on it. Like FakeHusband, Mr. ISurvived did not communicate his fears or the details of his past. But it is all coming out now. Perhaps all of this is what has finally lead me to begin accepting this as part of my life and our story.

I love Cookie's definition as well and it resonates with the stage we are at right now. Tessthemess too - I just passed the year antiversary of affair season and I too felt numb and angry and sad. Is it the same for you HH3?

Acceptance has the literal meaning to me, just as Old Wounds said. And just as I get hung up on words and their meanings, I also get hung up on stages. Healing from this is a process and in the past couple years I've, at times, viewed it as a check list thinking once I checked those all important boxes of knowing the entire story, finding his "why", seeking counseling, working through anger, accepting it, forgiving it, etc. that somehow I'm going to feel pain free and my life will resume.

What two years has proven to me is that it definitely isn't linear and I don't go through the stages only once. I just keep working through them and hoping that one of these times is my last and it'll stick.

I've read books on acceptance (yes, trying to rush the process to check that box) and after trying some different things I realized that, for me, it's like Old Wounds said, I acknowledge it happened. It's now a part of my marriage story even if I didn't want it to be. And I think because it was a deep loss, to some degree, there will always be some pain and definitely sadness when I think about it. It'd be great to reach a point where I can talk about it without it bringing about those emotions but I just look at it as that's how much I loved him and how much our marriage meant to me. Enough that I might always mourn the loss of what once was and I accept that. As time goes on the pain becomes less and there's hope in that.

ISurvived

I love Cookie's definition as well and it resonates with the stage we are at right now. Tessthemess too - I just passed the year antiversary of affair season and I too felt numb and angry and sad. Is it the same for you HH3?

Aug 2016 is where the inappropriate texting started and they downloaded an app to communicate secretly. At this point he was already lying about how much time they spent together and what they were doing. Sept. 9 was their first kiss and a week after that was their first attempt at sex. The physical part of the A lasted from Sept 9 to Oct. 19. Because of our busy schedule, with his timeline and our calendar he was able to figure out every time they had sex to the day, except one that is one of two days. I found out on the night of Oct. 20. So we are right in "affair season." Trying not to let the days have power over me, trying to focus on the work he is doing now and not a year ago but it is so. fucking. hard. I just want it to get to Halloween, but logically I know that it's up to me to work through it and not rely on the calendar, they are just days.

DerailedMarriage

What two years has proven to me is that it definitely isn't linear and I don't go through the stages only once. I just keep working through them and hoping that one of these times is my last and it'll stick.

I've read books on acceptance (yes, trying to rush the process to check that box) and after trying some different things I realized that, for me, it's like Old Wounds said, I acknowledge it happened. It's now a part of my marriage story even if I didn't want it to be. And I think because it was a deep loss, to some degree, there will always be some pain and definitely sadness when I think about it. It'd be great to reach a point where I can talk about it without it bringing about those emotions but I just look at it as that's how much I loved him and how much our marriage meant to me. Enough that I might always mourn the loss of what once was and I accept that. As time goes on the pain becomes less and there's hope in that.

I really appreciate your perspective, DM. Just keep working through the stages and hope they stick. If i look back, I can see growth and healing, but it is agonizingly slow. I'd be interested in hearing what books you read on acceptance and if there are any you'd recommend? I'm listening to the Pemo Chodron talk onlytime recommended now.

I'd be interested in hearing what books you read on acceptance and if there are any you'd recommend?

At this point I don't have any I would recommend. I try to tread lightly on recommendations because it varies greatly on reception based on where you're at in healing. Something I found helpful might still be hurtful to another or something I wasn't ready to delve into might be exactly what the next person is seeking. Loving What Is by Byron Katie always comes so highly recommended when speaking of acceptance and I will say it has nuggets of greatness but it wasn't my cup of tea. I'm into Brene Brown so I'm starting The Gifts of Imperfection- I can definitely use some words of wisdom on letting go of who I thought I was and who we were together and embracing who I am and the life I'm living post infidelity. it's a constant work in progress to get to a better place.

I'll add Rising Strong by Brene Brown. It really helped me to change my view of others including my WS and to gain compassion. WS and I read it together very early after d-day.

Regarding AS and antiversaries, I have not yet figured it out. Yes, they are just days and really arbitrary days. I tried to convince myself that they held no meaning but it didn't work for me. Now I have to get through d-day antiversary which this year is the day before Thanksgiving and a week before our wedding anniversary. And we'll have lots of company this year. So I'm hoping that will serve as a good distraction.

Maybe getting through the first year of antiversaries is necessary for acceptance. We just have to get through it to realize that it was in the past and it is not happening now.

Add me to the similar dday thread, 11/3/16, 10 months ago today as a matter of fact...

I think just like forgiveness, acceptance is very much individualized. As none of us forgive in quite the same way; I imagine none of us has accepted the betrayal in quite the same way either. There are many who choose NOT to forgive, but continue in the M. I think it is possible to not accept what our WS did, but totally possible to accept that the A happened and there is nothing BS can do to change that. That is the way I have "accepted" what happened. I also agree the anger is protecting my heart - making it so that I don'get too close too fast. I feel like my R is a bit unique tho, given that my H had a heart attack 3 months after dday. When that happened, life was put into perspective pretty quickly! Our R was put on the "fast track" so to speak.

It sounds to me you are pretty much where a lot of us are at 10 months out, maybe we're where we are supposed to be at this point, I don't know. Maybe acceptance isn't a "place" we arrive to, but something that just happens with time. Peace!

I was at the same point you are at 10 months. With the exception of wanting to R. For me, the decision to R was made for my children.

At one year, I was extremely angry again. I didn't except to feel so hurt at a year out.

Now that I am 15 months out, I have over a year of a different husband. My children feel secure and happy. This brings me my greatest joy.

I accept certain truths. I will never love my husband with abandon. I see him for what he really is. I am fully aware another affair could happen again. I feel sorry for my husband, he loved that rush and connection of a new woman. However, he is the biggest fool because he could have easily had that with me. Now he truly understands what a selfish mess he was and wishes he could take so much back.

I accept I have built bridges over 15 years. I take what I have learned and I feel so free! I am not concerned with how he feels about all things. He was the center of every decision I ever made.

What bothers me...I am disgusted to know he touched a woman that is so physically abhorant. Because of this I have an obsession to always look nice. It's actually spurred a vanity in me I never had before. I was naturally attractive, now I am sooo scared of aging to look anything like that. IE someone who needs her hair dyed with flybaaay pieces and disgusting aging skin.

In the past couple weeks, I mentally check all my feelings at the foot of the bed. I curl into my husband and I sleep so deeply.

Derailed Marriage and ISurvived, I have read both of those Brene Brown books and liked them. I feel like I got more out of Rising Strong, but I think I just read it at the right time. WH is working his way through Daring Greatly and I am going to read that when he is done. I will also have a look at that Byron Katie book.

shellbean and tess, it does sound like a lot of us are in pretty similar places. Oct 2016 was a terrible month for many of us. There is something comforting in knowing that what you are feeling is normal, but it always sucks to think of so many other people living this horrific rollercoaster. Shell, I can't imagine the added stress of a health issue while coping with infidelity. I guess that is one way to put life into perspective for you.

Iwantmyglasses, I have always admired the way you identified what was best for your children and pursued it. You make a good point at evaluating that your children are healthy and secure and the value in that. My kids know that something is up (they heard us fighting one night and we explained that dad hurt mom's feelings and we are working on it), but overall their life has hardly changed since mine was blown apart last year. They still enjoy the security of life as they have always known it and their dad has stepped up remarkably and appreciates them so much more. That is something to be grateful for, for sure.

Today in the shower I was thinking about this book I read recently, Living and Loving After Betrayal by Steve Stosny. He talks a bit about the brain's reaction to trauma, and one thing that stuck out was how he explained that while processing and healing, the traumatized brain has a hard time separating what is happening now with what happened during the trauma, and how threats that are no longer there might still feel very real. I'm wondering if maybe this accounts for my lingering gut feeling about whether WH has laid everything out as best he can. I can see him working to change who he is and face the selfishness he's basked in, but he still seems like a threat to me, like he is not safe. He has told me things that I would have had no way of finding out otherwise, his timeline lines up well, and the things he said/way he behaves corroborates with the few days' worth of texts between him and COW that I was able to recover and read.

I wonder if my gut feeling is less "there is still something out there" and more not being able to recognize that things are safer now. So many times during his TT I felt like I started to gain my footing and then he pulled the rug out from under me again, I feel like that was the most traumatizing part of this ordeal.

This is bouncing around in my head tonight. I guess I could have wrote it in my journal, but instead I typed it here. I'm interested if anyone has any thoughts or has felt this way or thought this as well. I'm going to bring it up at my next IC session and see if my counselor has any thoughts as well.

and how threats that are no longer there might still feel very real.

Assuming that R eventually works, at some point you won't be subjected to TT again, all the (big) lies and necessary details will have been revealed, but you really have no way of knowing when that is. Absence of catching them in a lie is not proof that the lie doesn't exist. You can't prove a negative. There must eventually be some faith-based trust given out. Just the way it is.

But the mind remembers, indeed.

Edit: errant comma removed. Argh!

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 8:39 AM, September 5th (Tuesday)]

Absence of catching them in a lie, is not proof that the lie doesn't exist. You can't prove a negative.

THIS^^^^^

I struggled for years with this. Still something that comes up for me 3 years from Dday1. But acceptance...that, too, has been a goal of mine. Which for me is the moment my brain finally takes a breath after holding it so long. Accepting that this is not a bad dream or tragic lifetime movie. My life. This happened. For me it has been the culmination of all the rumination and processing I've done to understand his relationships with 3 women. Nothing like condoning or believing parts were okay;rather, just a calm acceptance of reality. And that takes time. And possibly also the feeling that you have the full truth. I don't think you believe you do. You still believe there may be more to come, which keeps you vigilant and unable to make your way toward acceptance. At least for me acceptance has come only after the dust has settled. Sounds like dust is still kicked up in your world. So more time, more truth and show of authentic remorse from your fWH, HH3.

[This message edited by psychmom at 7:54 AM, September 5th (Tuesday)]