SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She calls it love . It's really just infatuation. If they get together it could turn out to be love but cheater relationships only survive long term less than five percent of the time.

Don't get hung up on the love thing, just like teen angers can end up falling in love several times a month.

The why is the same as always, attraction and then the urge to merge. Lots of speculation but it all boils down to that. Many want to believe women do it for the emotional fix but in many decades my experience is that women are just as aggressive or more aggressive sexually as men.

[This message edited by Chappie at 6:01 AM, February 15th (Wednesday)]

I'm trying to not get hung up on the love thing. So far she has been doing eveything I have asked. I know deep down that if she breaks nc with OM then the marriage is over. This still feels like a nightmare.

I physically found proof that my wife's APs were serial cheaters. That was what finally snapped my wife out of it.

My wife knows OM has cheated on before. Hell he cheated on his live in girlfriend with my wife cause they got caught doing it at his house. That did not seem to stop her from pursuing him.

Chappie is right. My wife exchanged "I love yous " with her AP. I questioned my wife about it. She admitted it was part of the fantasy that she was in. We've moved on since then and 15 months later it is nonissue. It's part of the ego kibbles that cheaters do. It's my wife's actions after Dday that matter most.

Take a second to think of how differently it would have been if Mrs. Walloped had told you she was in love with her OM. Would you really have given her points for honesty?

Of course it would have been like taking a punch to the solar plexus. But a) in Barry's case, it's not really love just like when my wife told POS she loved him numerous times. It's this fantasy infatuation nonsense that, deep in the fog as she is, she translates to love, and b) more importantly, my point was that people are jumping all over Barry shouting at him to take a very specific action (divorce) simply because of what she said. All I'm saying is to hold on a moment. It's not real and at least she didn't lie about it. She said something honest, that she knew was painful for Barry to hear and that made her seem worse in his eyes and likelihood of divorcing greater. Yet she still said it. That's not a negative per se.

Now, what does she want to do about it? Does she want to hold onto those feelings? Or does she say she doesn't want to love him but that's where she's at now? There's a difference. If she's committed to the marriage, then she can actively work at changing those feelings. NC, Deleting all physical and electronic reminders, IC sessions to uncover the false relationship they had, etc.

It's a shit sandwich no matter which way you look at it. Decisions about R or D do not have to be made now. I'm in R for 18 months now and I still might D. My wife knows this and accepts this as my right. I don't laud it over her. I don't threaten her. But R is a very long process with many ups and downs. It's normal for feelings to change in both directions over time.

For now, there's a lot to process. Feelings, communication, individual counseling, exposure to the right folks, reading, etc. Watch and evaluate as well. Learn who your wife is now vs who she wants to be. What steps is she doing to get there? That'll help you in your recovery and decision process.

I think Walloped is spot on.

Would you prefer she lied? There is value in honesty. In fact, the moment her actions indicate she no longer misses OM – that’s when your short hairs should be tingling. It’s a lot like an addict: only stops showing signs of withdrawal when healed OR when using again.

You need to be equally honest:

“Wife – If you love OM and have emotions for him that should be towards ME and if you think you can’t have those emotions towards ME then don’t let our marriage hold you back. If you remain then do so because YOU choose to stay. I don’t want to be a compromise or a second choice. You need to decide if you want me or OM. Remember – you don’t HAVE me at the moment, but I am offering to put in the effort where we can reestablish a marriage. You can work towards reclaiming ME and thereby increasing MY willingness to reconcile, or you can work on hanging onto your affair. That will eventually kill any interest I have in reconciliation. It’s your call.”

One thing regarding the family meeting and exposure and all that:

One of the goals of exposure is to strip the WS of any sense of romance, justification, sacrifice or ANY positive emotion for the affair. It’s not revenge, it’s not shaming. Those might be consequences or side-effects but you really want your WS to get the message that no matter what – her decision to cheat was 100% her decision and there are no excuses.

She doesn’t get to say “I decided to give up OM – whom I truly love – and chose the family”. She get’s to say “I risked this family unit with my wrong decision and wrong choices and need the chance to rebuild and repair the damage I have done”.

"If they will cheat with you they will cheat on you."

Sorry, one other point about the love thing.

Some people cheat for the sexual high. Basic pleasure driven thing. Or the illicit nature of it. There are probably a number of things Barry's wife told herself that excused her for the cheating. She knew it was wrong but she did it anyway. That's one thing. However, unless she's a complete tramp, if she's anything like my wife or many other women out there, it's a serious internal conflict between who she thinks she is as a person vs her actions.

Cheating is wrong and evil. She knows that. Yet she did it. Ergo, she's evil. But if it's loooove....ahhh...well, love is a beautiful thing, right? Love turns bad me into good me. I'm just following my heart. And you can't help how you feel. Watch every crappy romantic comedy where someone gets stood up at the altar as the bride runs off with another guy in the name of love. Awwwww, how sweet. But not so sweet for the poor shmuck left behind. Many times these feelings of "love" build on themselves because it allows the WS to live with themselves and look in the mirror without being horrified at who they've become.

I don't know which this was, but if their relationship was a max of 5 months, I'm guessing the love thing is just fantasy land crap. Basically, I wouldn't get too hung up over it. She still needs to work through those feelings, but at least understand it for what it is.

Ps. Don’t bother de-characterizing OM. You don’t want your wife to stay because OM is such a loser, doesn’t provide, isn’t reliable or what-not. You don’t want to be the compromise or the lesser of two evils. You want her to stay because she wants to stay more than anything else – irrespective of OM’s immense benefits or faults.

No soliciting.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:43 AM, February 15th (Wednesday)]

I know I keep posting. Sorry about that.

Bigger's post is pure gold, as usual. But I do want to draw your attention to his last paragraph.

She doesn’t get to say “I decided to give up OM – whom I truly love – and chose the family”. She get’s to say “I risked this family unit with my wrong decision and wrong choices and need the chance to rebuild and repair the damage I have done”.

There's a message here for you Barry. You cannot control her but you can control you. This is the overarching theme that you've been hearing from folks. You need to operate from a position of strength. Sure, she can run away with OM if that's what she wants. But you can choose to leave the marriage as well, no matter what she chooses. She can say I want the marriage until she's blue in the face and you can still walk away. She's relinquished her hold over you through her affair.

She doesn't get to say "Hey Barry. Great news! I decided to stay with you and not run off with OM! Now who's a lucky boy?" Nope. No way, no how. She needs to understand that she will have to work her tail off to get YOU to agree to remain in the marriage and work toward reconciliation. You let her know that you're willing to do your part but this is an undertaking and massive effort and she needs to be all in for there to be a shot at this.

a) in Barry's case, it's not really love just like when my wife told POS she loved him numerous times. It's this fantasy infatuation nonsense that, deep in the fog as she is, she translates to love, and b) more importantly, my point was that people are jumping all over Barry shouting at him to take a very specific action (divorce) simply because of what she said. All I'm saying is to hold on a moment. It's not real and at least she didn't lie about it. She said something honest, that she knew was painful for Barry to hear and that made her seem worse in his eyes and likelihood of divorcing greater. Yet she still said it. That's not a negative per se.

I agree with the above quote. We all know it's not true love, but she thinks it is and there in lies the danger. If she continues to think that, she will break NC eventually. Bottom line is, she appears to be fence sitting. Barry needs to push her off the fence. That is why , at least in my opinion, filing for divorce was advised. She needs an ice cold splash of reality.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 12:27 PM, February 15th (Wednesday)]

She has said she doesn't want to love him and she wants to erase him from her memory. She is still going to IC and we usually talk about her session afterwards. She has been apologetic. I'm still crushed, this should of never happened. She sleeps in our bedroom still to save face for the kids, there is no intimacy or anything. She has attempted to initiate cuddling etc but I don't respond. I'm still so hurt, how could anyone do this.

gameplan ?? You never took the time away to think about a gameplan like I suggested Barry. And you are doing no better.

What exactly do you want ??

I can't just leave I have work and we have three kids. This is extremely difficult for me. I don't know what I want.

Hi Barry.

I know this time is difficult. I'm sorry you're here. It is perfectly natural to not know what to do in your situation. Stay or go, your world has been rocked and you didn't ask for any of this. 2016 was without a doubt the worst year of my life as I spent the first half being oblivious to my wife's affair, and the second half pitying myself and kicking myself in the ass for not recognizing the signs. I'm just a year past when the affair would have started so I'm more sensitive currently, but much, much better than those first few months after DDay.

What I can recommend is that you get STD tested. Whether or not you ever have sex with your wife again, you've potentially been exposed to something awful as your wife was sleeping with a known cheater who was actively in another sexual relationship. Even if you don't want to see your wife ever again you should do this for yourself, but it will speak volumes of her commitment to suggest you go together. I know this has been suggested already and I'm sorry if you've addressed that.

I also know you don't want to know what else happened, but if you're at all unsure of the truth or sincerity of your wife's words, doing a recovery on her phone should help shed some light on your situation. I do not recommend suggesting this to her. The only way forward for her is going to be honesty, so you should verify where she's at now independently before coming up with terms together for accountability and transparency.

Exposure is also touchy. I chose not to tell anyone outside of a close mutual friend of my wife and I who had been in my shoes. She was very supportive and spoke like a veteran member here so it wouldn't surprise me if she found her way here. As wonderful as all the posters her are it really does help to confide in someone "in real life". I didn't want to tell my family for fear of how my actions would be perceived -- I imagined most would see me as weak or spineless, but I can tell you it takes a lot of strength to go through infidelity.

As for her honesty about her feeling for the other man -- it probably hurts like hell for you to hear, and she probably knows this. I personally think it's better that she's honest in this regard, rather than concealing those feelings. My wife claimed to hate the other man and I cannot say that felt any better -- it's still head space for OM and it was still her CHOICE to betray me.

Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. Correct her when she minimizes and blame shifts, even slightly. Don't even give her an inch. She needs to realize the gravity of what she did, even if you decide to forgive and move on. You can let her know that you are losing sleep, lack an appetite, and are roused by nightmares because of what she did without being petty. But you would be completely justified in being petty, too. I just personally feel that a calm and sincere statement of pain drives the point home better than theatrics.

Most of all, keep posting. You will find strength you didn't know you had even if you don't feel very strong right now.

[This message edited by mouthkeptshut at 7:32 PM, February 15th (Wednesday)]

Barry - re

It's very hard. A loving wife and stay at home mom before this falls for a douche. Being with the OM was physically and emotionally more important than me and her family. I am trying to make sense of why she did what she did but I can't.

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that she no more expected to get found out than any other cheater who is not in an exit affair.

The reality may well be that you and the kids were supplying most of what she wanted - call it a score of eight out of ten. The AP was supplying a bit more - possibly another three out of ten. Three that you couldn't supply because it was the combined excitements of novelty, risk, wickedness and getting-away-with-it.

It probably wasn't that she preferred his three to your eight - she'd have left you if she did - she preferred eleven to either three or eight. She didn't, deep down, prefer him to you - she wanted the benefits of being involved with you both. In other words she was greedy, selfish. She got the taste for eleven and thought she could handle it.

The problems you now have are

1 - knowing that she has tasted eleven, and that no one man can provide the mix of risk and stability that represented, will she be able to resist future opportunities and

2 - can you get over her behaviour and lead a life as rich, fulfilling and love-filled with her as you would have the opportunity to do if you D.

I took my XW's behaviour personally for years, the beginning of recovery was realising it wasn't personal - she's have cheated on any husband (and with any man who provided the right opportunity). She was simply selfish - that's all - she could, she wanted to, she did - no thought for anyone but herself.

[This message edited by GotTheTshirtToo at 8:49 PM, February 15th (Wednesday)]

What is a VAR?? Just wondering..

Voice Activated Recorder