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I Can Relate :
Spouses with Same Gender APs

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 11:42 PM on Monday, February 3rd, 2020

My experience is that there's very little separating us from BSes (Betrayed Spouses) in straight A(ffair)s (Abbreviation: 'As'). I went through essentially the same feelings; I hit obstacles that other BSes hit; my W(ife) is in the minority in her post-d-day actions, but the minority includes WSes (Wayward Spouses) in straight As, etc.

Besides, there are only a few of us dealing with same-sex As, so there isn't a lot of activity on this thread. If you want info, you pretty much have to browse in the General, Reconciliation, and maybe Just Found Out forums anyway (though it took me years to be able to handle the raw pain in JFO.)

I initially feared that posting in R and G would get me a lot of disdainful or downright contemptuous responses. Never happened, although I've gotten a few (literally 2 or 3) responses about not knowing the pain of a hetero-A. Some people hate my posts, but that's because of what I say, not because of the gender of my W's ap (affair partner).

So I strongly recommend you dip your toes into G or R or even JFO (although JFO will probably get you a lot of 'how can you accept the disrespect' responses.

*****

A recommendation: first, focus on what you want. If an A is a deal killer for you, going straight to D saves a lot of energy and prevents a lot of anguish.

If you want R, I strongly recommend not committing to R until you've observed your W for several months to make sure she's a good candidate for R. If you're unsure, I suggest 'working on the M' for a few months to find out the same. If she's a good candidate, R is possible, if you want it. If she's not, R is impossible.

*****

-pls comment as much as you can about female affairs, especially emotional aspect.

I think an A is an A in terms of the BS's recovery. No matter what, discovery of the A dumps immense amounts of anger, grief, fear, and shame on the BS, and the BS needs to process those emotions out of his/her/their body. As vary from one another in many ways, but the impact on the BS (betrayed spouse) seems to be pretty standard - excruciating to the BS.

-What drives a heterosexual woman to be attracted sexually and emotionally to another female?

Beats me. I suspect very few of us are 100% straight.

- WS claims the OW was feeding her emotionally, WS wanted to give back to the OW what she needed, part of which was sex. Pls comment, why was sex necessary?

I understand why sex for my W. You have to find this out from your W.

- my wife swears she is not a lesbian despite having slept 4X w this other POS. I don’t understand???

Well, if she likes sex with you, she's probably bi- and not gay. If she is disgusted by straight sex, she may be a lesbian.

-Same sex affair appears to have special issues, especially woman on woman. I.E. reasons seem to be completely different than men. Additionally, woman on woman affairs seem to be rare.

Probably not so rare in the gay community. A number of gay women are SI members. They're not easy to find though, because IMO infidelity is infidelity, and a BS is a BS irrespective of the genders of the WSes and aps.

The only special issue that I've discerned is the WW's sexuality. If she's bi-, R is possible if certain conditions are met. I don't see how a straight man and a gay woman can have a normal M, though an unconventional M is theoretically possible. IMO, and in my experience, a WS can R if she does the necessary work and if both partners want to R.

*****

Post as much as you want. Ask questions. Check out what you're seeing and experiencing. Vent. There's no limit on posting, as long as you stay within guidelines.

Also, keep SI to yourself for now. If your W doesn't know about it, it can be a safe place for you. If she does know about SI and isn't committed to R, she could use your words against you.

Remember: your W cheated because of her own internal issues, not because of issues with you or your M. You are not to blam for this.

More important, you can recover from this, whether you D or R. I know you may be inundated with pain, but you can work through it and lead a good life, even though you've been betrayed.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27886   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8505098
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 SI Staff (original poster moderator #10) posted at 11:45 AM on Sunday, February 27th, 2022

Bump smile

posts: 10009   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8719071
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endthecycle2022 ( new member #80004) posted at 12:23 PM on Wednesday, March 2nd, 2022

Thank you for the bump :)

Spent all of sunday reading this thread, so therapeutic reading the real comments of others in similar situations - thank you for sharing. How is everyone going?

I'm currently 10.5 months from D-day - for the 4th time. It is utterly exhausting but we're still in love and hope to start a family - we've been together 15 years and we're each others first relationship. Perhaps we're just crazy now from all the hurt and just don't know how to stop this cycle. Who knows - but it is comforting i'm not alone based on this thread.

posts: 2   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Sydney
id 8719715
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 8:25 PM on Wednesday, March 2nd, 2022

Is your partner M or F? I don't think it matters much, but it's useful to know.

4th time? That concerns me a lot. Is that one person cheated 1, 2, 3, or 4 times?

One can cure oneself of serial cheating, if one wants to do so. It's hard work. IMO, there's some aspect of cheating to avoid pain in many As, and that pain has to be processed. It's not easy to let go of the pain of being betrayed. IMO, it's even harder to change from cheater to good partner.

Where are you now? ARe you the BS or WS, or are you a 'madhatter' (both BS and WS in the same relationship)? What have you done to heal? What has your partner done to heal?

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27886   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8719797
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endthecycle2022 ( new member #80004) posted at 7:05 AM on Thursday, March 3rd, 2022

We're a MF couple.

Yes 4t time over 12 years if counting only physical encounters. I'm most disappointed because i'm not scared or disgusted by his bi side, i actually wanted to embrace it as a mixed orientation couple. And to check I'm not just kidding myself, we have had a few bi MMF experiences and I found them exciting. And yet the 4th encounter wasn't just the usual hook ups for sex, it was a 6 month almost weekly event with daily messages. just typing it dumbfounds me that either of us are still here - as it proves a MM experience for the mr is more than just sex, he was able to curate and enjoy an emotional MM bond too.

Sorry not sure of the the acronyms - madhatter, BS or BW?

But for full context, after 4th time i did go on dates and slept with a few people without his knowledge nor agreement we were separated. And since we have had massive fights where I have lost all control at points and called him disgusting things with the intent to hurt and break him like he did to me. So I haven't been an angel either.

Not excusing him or that we're "balanced now" in anyway, it's just more of why are we both still choosing to stay together when the hurt is so bad. and even somehow feel a glimmer of hope we're going to be together still.

posts: 2   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2022   ·   location: Sydney
id 8719887
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 8:05 PM on Thursday, March 3rd, 2022

For abbreviations, click on 'Healing Library' above; then click on - you guessed it - 'abbreviations'. smile This is a feature of the new website, and it's a great one. Of course, you may not be aware that this website (collection of pages) is a relatively new version.

It looks like you are a madhatter. You've been betrayed in your M, so you're a betrayed spouse/wife (BS/BW) and you've betrayed your H, so you're a wayward spouse/wife (WS/WW). IMO, that means you have to do the work necessary to heal both as a BS and as a WS.

IMO, you need to agree on what you want your M to be. I wanted a monogamous M - no sex with others, and I consider a romantic kiss to be 'sex'. I'm fine with my W finding men and women attractive, as long as she focuses her sexual thoughts on me. I accept that because a) it's probably inescapable, and b) I know I find lots of women attractive, but when I'm aware of sexual thoughts, I associate them with my W. I'm pretty far over on the straight side. My W's bisexuality isn't a problem for me, because I believe that we may not be able to control who we find sexually attractive, but we can choose who we're going to have sex with.

So what do you want from your M? I'm a retired consultant, so I think breaking the cycle requires:

1) figuring out where you want to be

2) figuring out where you are

3) figuring out how to get to where you want to be from where you are

4) doing the work.

Note that you get to and have to figure out for yourself what you want. You can't control the outcome - no matter how much you may want R, you won't be able to R unless you and your H agree to R, and you won't succeed in R unless you share compatible views O the M you build and do the necessary work on yourselves and your M.

ut both R and D are honorable outcomes if you act mindfully and honorably in getting there.

Does that make sense? Does it help?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:11 PM, Thursday, March 3rd]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27886   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8719964
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marvelousdarling ( member #74341) posted at 3:51 AM on Saturday, April 9th, 2022

I'm so grateful this board is here... hope to bump this up.

I just found out my WH has acted out with male sex workers (in addition to known female sex workers, other AO listed below). With the information I have (and for the first time, I have some faith in it because we are preparing for disclosure and polygraph), the number of times with females far outweighs times with males. By a lot. He's in recovery for substance abuse addict (alcohol, analgesics, opioids), as well as sex addict. Pornography use (any and all kinds, including incest and homosexual), EAs, PAs, erotic massage, random online strangers, and sex workers/prostitutes. Newly diagnosed with Bipolar, and about a month ago was hospitalized after a full-blown psychotic event. Yes, it's a lot and he is deeply disturbed and needing extensive therapy. I have help and support, don't worry.

Several significant traumas as a child, including his father's death and no strong male role model growing up.

Enmeshed relationship with his mother, with very ill-managed mental health of her own.

Sexual assault event in his teens from a male friend (also in his teens).

I've also suspected there may have been earlier abuse re: time with his addict father

ZERO help, therapy, or resolution to any of these things. I knew about NONE of these things until well after we were married. He, nor his family, shared any details about anything, other than his dad was killed by a drunk driver. They failed to mention it was on his way home from the bar, where he immediately got drunk after being released from in-patient rehab for the third time. Not that his mother had been hospitalized multiple times, his sister has been in treatment... just slipped their minds, I guess. Infuriating.

I don't care too much about any changes in orientation, he deserves to live his life however is best for him (whether I'm with him or not), but I am curious about prevalence, or correlation with, or just with experiences of those that have gone before me, of acting out with SS partners (or affairs) and orientation. Or... I don't know. This may be more of a mental purge and looking for info or shared experiences, because that's how my brain works.

Any thoughts? I know analyzing doesn't technically change anything, I'm just trying to understand.

[This message edited by marvelousdarling at 3:56 AM, Saturday, April 9th]

posts: 75   ·   registered: Apr. 29th, 2020
id 8728871
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 6:09 PM on Saturday, April 9th, 2022

OK ... my understanding is that true gays do not take pleasure in sex with the opposite(?) gender. Gay women are disgusted by sex with men; gay men are disgusted with sex with woman. The corollary is that if a person enjoys sex with all genders, the person is bi- or poly- or ? (I don't know any other terminology). Maybe your H can figure out is sexuality quickly, maybe not.

Once sexuality is determined, after d-day if R is a possibility, the question becomes: Will the WS commit to an M both partners want?

For me, and probably for you, monogamy is part of any M I want to be part of. (I also wanted my partner to love me and be in love with me.)

My W's background includes CSA, which I didn't find out about until W had memories come back 20 years into our M, and she's got some vulnerabilities to addictions, but they're not disabling. Your H has to come back from different traumas than m W had to deal with - but we can't compare traumas. I think all that can be said is that your H did a lot more acting out than my W did.

My W's addictions were work and emotional eating. Those are a lot less impactful on the body than your H's addictions. I don't think I'd have R'ed with a mind-altering substance abuser without a commitment to stopping the use of mind-altering substances.

Sometimes that works sometimes it doesn't. We have at least one member who posts once a year about another year of sobriety, usually from a beach smile , so we know some addicts do put their addictions aside, and I know we have other members who keep themselves sober.

I think it will help you to look for BSes with addict WSes for sitches that are analagous to yours. There just aren't a lot of us with same gender aps.

I have always thought that R depends on the present and future, not the past. My W became committed to her healing and to being honest on d-day. She keeps getting more true to herself - the self that she showed me before M, which is the person I fell for. We both want to be together, so we keep doing what is necessary to make that happen. That's not meant as bragging - I just mean to say that we have decided what we want, and we do our best to get it.

If an addiction is self-sabotage (and I think that's one aspect), you'll have to make a guess about your H's commitment to R vs his pattern of hurting himself. Whether you D or R, I hope he commits to living a good life despite his addiction. Whether you D or R, I hope you remember that you're the prize and that you can survive and thrive after being betrayed.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27886   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8728918
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morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 7:48 PM on Thursday, April 21st, 2022

"OK ... my understanding is that true gays do not take pleasure in sex with the opposite(?) gender. Gay women are disgusted by sex with men; gay men are disgusted with sex with woman."

That is incorrect. Gays often have sex with opposite sex partners and reach orgasm. It just isn't their preferred type of sex. That doesn't make them bisexual or straight.

[This message edited by morningglory at 7:49 PM, Thursday, April 21st]

posts: 454   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8730968
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BlackRaven ( member #74607) posted at 9:00 PM on Sunday, May 15th, 2022

marvelousdarling

So sorry you're here. Our stories are similar, but I'm mostly active in the partner of sex addict forum.
You mention a previous sexual assault, and my understanding is that many men who were raped by men question their sexual orientation. Sometimes it's because they had some form of arousal during the rape, and so they think that must mean that they are gay or bi, rather than it being a physiological response. They may also wonder why they 'attracted' a guy.

I also think that as sex addicts descend into their disease, it takes more extreme sexual activity to achieve the same response (just like a drug addict builds up a tolerance to the drugs they use). I believe I read that in Patrick Carnes' book, Out of the Shadows.


for the first time, I have some faith in it because we are preparing for disclosure and polygraph),



Not to scare you, but rather to prepare you: My exSAWH passed two polygraphs by two different technicians months apart, one in rehab and one days before our disclosure. Yet through disclosure, he was still lying to me about something completely unrelated to his sexual acting out but extremely important (When I accidentally tripped over the lie involving his enmeshment a few weeks after disclosure it was the thing that finally forced me to walk away from the marriage.) This was after 4 months of his rehab for SA and boundaries, a workshop on enmeshment and 8 months of working with his CSAT, psychiatrist, DBT therapists and groups.

People with that level of personality disorder and addiction are masters at repressing and compartmentalizing their behaviors, (and at manipulating people, including their therapists) and I guess that's what he was able to do during the polys. The first one pertained to some of his homosexual activities and I think he has truly repressed it and just doesn't remember. In the second one, my trauma therapist had assured me that the examiner's question about whether he was being truthful would catch any recent lies. But my WH interpreted it as 'were you truthful in what you shared in your disclosure about your sexual acting out' not 'have you been truthful in everything' and so he answered without stress and passed.

Whatever you decide, know that it's virtually impossible for your WH to 'recover' from the trauma that he's been through. He may learn skills to better cope with life, and he will have to work them every day, but he won't ever be 'cured'

posts: 339   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2020
id 8735463
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Honeybun ( new member #80350) posted at 11:08 PM on Sunday, June 26th, 2022

I found out on April 10th of this year that my husband was on hook up sites for men and sleeping with men. We have been married for 14 years and together for 17 years. I found pictures on his phone, so I have proof. They are so disgusting! He said he isn't gay or bi-sexual (hard to believe). He said he did this with men because he felt like if he was with a woman, it would have been cheating, SMDH, like this wasn't cheating. I am pursuing a divorce. Terrible thing is we just bought a new house in January of this year and moved in in February. Prior to this we lived in my rowhome that I bought by myself back in 1995 as a single mother. So, this makes divorcing much more complicated. He was the love of my life and I loved him with my whole heart. It's been a rough couple of months, but I am seeing a counselor trying to learn how to deal with all of this. I didn't get married until I was 39 and I don't think I will ever do this again! You cannot trust anyone! It's so sad. I would never do this to someone I was "supposed to love"

posts: 5   ·   registered: May. 25th, 2022   ·   location: Maryland
id 8742079
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:39 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

How can SI help you? If you can outline that, we'll probably be able to give you the help you want.

There never has been a lot of activity on this thread. My experience is that an A is an A. It's about the WS (Wayward Spouse), not about the ap (affair partner). With a same sex ap, there is an extra question, if R is on the table, but IMO we BSes (Betrayed Spouses) are in essentially the same fix we'd be with straight As.

I was afraid I'd be treated pretty roughly if I posted in what I thought of as the 'normal' forums (G(eneral) and R(econciliation)). In actuality, I was treated the way every other BS was treated.

Since you're D'ing, my reco is to post in the Divorce and Separation forum. The folks there are very supportive. (I'm not very familiar with the forum - superstition keeps me out of it, since I want R for myself. smile )

BTW, the extra question we face, if R is on the table, is, IMO: Is the WS bi or gay? If sex is important to the BS, R is virtually impossible if the WS is gay, but at least theoretically possible with a bi.

ETA: How SI helped me

1) I used SI to vent, to express some of my anger, grief, fear, and shame. Other members often provided support - they shared that they had gone through the same feelings

2) I checked out what was going on with me - others shared what went on with them, many shared they ... wait for it ... had gone through the same stuff

3) I read others' stories and saw I wasn't alone. (That was mixed, of course - I liked the company but (liked to think I) didn't want anyone else to go through the same crap.)

4) I got support for my chosen path.

I know SI can provide the help I outlined. If you want something else, name it; we'll help if we can.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:46 PM, Sunday, July 10th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27886   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8742183
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ccallalone ( new member #46614) posted at 3:56 PM on Sunday, July 10th, 2022

Huneybun, Your story and mine are virtually identical. Down to the recent real estate transactions at the time of discovery, and his "justification" for the choice of same sex partners. My heart goes out to you. I have been where you are, and it's absolutely awful. My discovery day was nearly 8 years ago. WS has repeatedly denied being gay. That is something only he knows. I have my own thoughts on the subject after 40 years of marriage. There is so much shame wrapped up in the subject of sex for him that I'm not sure he can trust anyone, including or maybe especially me, with such a disclosure, if he is gay. We spent several months in counseling way back then. He told the therapist and me at every session that he had stopped meeting up with men, blamed me for not being willing to move on, all while continuing to see men for sex multiple times per week, which was documented by emails sent to an address that he had inadvertently given me access to. After several months of wasting time and money on these sessions, I saw a lawyer and planned to start divorce proceedings. Then at our last session in 2015, the therapist suggested sex addiction to WS, and he latched onto it. He started attending SAA meetings and it changed his life. He works the 12 steps, and his involvement in the fellowship is a large part of his life. Along the way, we have worked out enough of a relationship that I am willing to stay (although I sometimes waver on that). I have a huge problem with the addiction narrative - it essentially allows him to place the blame for his behavior on his 'addiction' and allows him to deny that his behavior was infidelity. But the hook-ups have stopped (I can monitor his location 24/7, and frequently text him for explanation of where he is and what he is doing, and he complies), and he is committed to making the marriage work. I've lurked on this board for years, but rarely - maybe never - posted. As sisoon has suggested, please post with how SI can help you. I hope hearing from someone who has been where you are is helpful.

posts: 21   ·   registered: Feb. 2nd, 2015
id 8744095
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FragileandHurt ( new member #80011) posted at 12:59 AM on Monday, July 18th, 2022

I am almost 8 months from DD. My husband of 20 years told me he had had a four-month affair with a co-worker. I was devastated as I have been 100% faithful through our entire marriage and made many sacrifices along the way. After he told me about the female co-worker he told me there was more. For over 20 years he had been meeting same sex partners for casual hookups. He said he did that because he did not want emotional attachment that would come with an OS partner. He said he was so relieved to have an OS AP as that was "normal" and didn't make him feel so shameful.

I was devastated and my reaction matched that devastation; however, I didn't tell him he was a deviant or disgusting. He was so shocked by my response that it snapped him back to reality. He ended his affair that day and told me he wanted to stay and work on it. I told him I didn't know if I would stay. I had to process the OS AP first and then once I had wrapped my brain around that, I would deal with the SS stuff. I am finally at that point where I am able to process SS partners.

He read through some literature about straight men who have SS encounters. He worked with a therapist and he does not believe he is bi-sexual. The behavior started before we were married and he was exploring and confused but when he continued to seek out partners when he wasn't being fulfilled at home.

This is of course a lot to deal with. He says the SS activity stopped a week prior to the A. I believe him and he is working with his IC on the shame aspect and unresolved childhood trauma and lack of a father growing up. Other than our therapists, I have not shared this part of the story and have only shared the affair with 5 other people that I trust implicitly. Yesterday I shared the whole story with one of those 5 people. I have known him for the longest out of all and he is gay and I felt safe sharing this with him. It was such a huge relief and he was so kind and supportive. It felt like a huge weight was lifted to have one person know why I am in so much pain.

I love my husband and he has been my best friend and partner for over 20 years. We have two beautiful children together. We have planned for a life together and dreams we still want to fulfill. He has supported me in my dreams and has been kind and gentle. That is why this is so shocking to me. We are working together with a wonderful therapist who has provided a lot of support to us as a couple I found a quote one day as I was researching and it is one I read every single day to keep my perspective, "A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other." At this point, we are refusing to give up on one another. We will see where that path leads.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2022   ·   location: Midwest
id 8745202
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 11:24 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2022

Posting to let you know I read your message and wish you and your H the best.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27886   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8745323
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HowIsThisReal ( member #50235) posted at 3:45 AM on Tuesday, July 26th, 2022

Fragile, I went through something similar, he was with men and women. My husband also doesn't feel he is bisexual, as he doesn't have romantic feelings towards men, apparently they're easier to find and less of an emotional connection, he found them on CL.

We are about 7 years out and basically reconciled, of course I think about it now and then, but it doesn't hurt like it used to.

I barely come on here anymore, I happened to come on tonight because I stupidly decided to watch Anatomy Of A Scandal and it triggered me a bit.

My husband went through years of off and on therapy (we moved during this time so we had to find new therapists), his therapists also felt he wasn't bisexual.

He worked so hard on himself in therapy, and I also went through therapy, but when I was at home I was verbally abusive and brutal to him, I called him things I wouldn't imagine coming out of my mouth. He took it with patience and understanding.

It took over 5 years for R to be "stable", we went through a lot of tears, many times of pondering divorce, I went through times of literally feeling hatred towards him, then times of just feeling nothing towards him which is just as scary as feeling hatred.

Anyway, R is possible, even in circumstances such as these.

I have very close friends that know he cheated with random hookups from CL, but I never told them it was sometimes with the SS, people can be very quick to jump to assumptions of sexual orientation so I keep it to myself. But basically in my H's situation, it didn't matter who the hole belonged to, it was his escape and as long as he got to orgasm, he didn't care about the person's gender.

Hugs, and I wish you well in your journey, whichever path you choose.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 3:55 AM, Tuesday, July 26th]

Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015

Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.

posts: 861   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2015
id 8747220
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