SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

W

You didn't sound whiny, you sounded like a man on the verge of mental exhaustion. I think you have received so much advice from all the good people here that you suffer from information overload. Take a break for a few days just to clear your mind and enjoy yourself on your trip. Get lots of rest.

In a few weeks, when you feel better, it would be worthwhile looking into who your wife's friend who had an affair and (supposedly) got caught really is. There is something fishy about revealing you her innermost secrets about the affair, but not revealing who the friend is. You seem to think it's loyalty towards her friend, I am pretty sure there is more to it.

Has that friend encouraged your W to have an affair? (even if she denies it) If it is so, is she worried you will cause her friend as much trouble as you caused POS?

If the friend did not encourage your W to have an A, did the fact that your W was around this friend, hearing about the thrill and passion of the A, indirectly encourage your W to have one?(see nononsense's story) I always found amazing the parallel between A's and yawning. When you have a group of people together in a room, if one person yawns, it provokes yawning in several of the other people. Likewise, when a group of women (or a group of men) hear about one of the group member's A, many of the other members of the group become sexually aroused, and slowly the idea of infidelity creeps up in their mind. Maybe, that's how it happened.

One way or the other, your wife's refusal to give the name is very fishy, or as Marcellus (in Hamlet) would have said:"Something is rotten in this state of New York"

Naughty Naughty Walloped.

Go enjoy your brothers house and your trip.

I can assure you we will be here waiting for you when you return.

W, Regarding your rant. It's Cool.

You are here to Survive Infidelity whether you R or D or join the seminary. To do so, it is essential to take an even keeled approach. Take in ALL this open forum has to offer. It will give you good balance to hear from all the various view points from all the various experiences, from one extreme to the other, that factor into the complexity of infidelity and the human equation.

Take it all in, process, keep what works for YOUR situation, for YOU and YOUR wife, and leave the rest.

I am a late comer, just caught up. I won't repeat any of the wise advice you have received. I am in awe of your ability to keep up with this thread while in the midst of this turmoil IRL, maintaining a busy job and juggling what certainly appears to be an active involvement with your children. At this point in the process, I was pretty much a quivering bowl of jelly, well, when I got home from work, I did manage to keep that together. But you are quite amazing.

Those lingering questions, the one about the friend, and others, well, they'll come up. Believe me, you'll relive every minute of those months and second guess everything that happened. That's why it's so important to do what you are doing now-take a break. Go mudding, go to the movies, do all those things and more. It's obvious that your escapes are healthy, you aren't drinking to excess, for example, and are trying to eat in a healthy manner. Keep that up.

And I agree with you about some of the negativity. While some folks may want to know the gory details of the sex, I never did, and still don't. It's an individual thing.

You are angry, rightfully so. They say the anger often peaks in year two. That's just an FYI and YMMV. MY only suggestion about that is something that I THINK you may already be practicing-attack the deed not the doer. Name calling is rarely useful even from BS toward WS. It was something I found VERY hard to refrain from since my H cheated on me and lied to me for many, many years. Yet, I tried very hard NOT to call him names although I did NOT hold back on expressing my anger and hurt (nor did I refrain from name calling his partners, hypocrite that I am, I don't know them, don't intend to)

Just my two cents.

I wish you well in your deserved break.

Walloped if you thought I was calling you whinny I was not. I was actually calling the POS OM whinny when he was complaining to your wife about the splendid action you took with your exposure.

[This message edited by convert at 8:06 PM, August 27th (Thursday)]

Just know that things in real life are messy..Confusing..

Too many gray lines, not much in black and white..

Nothing unusual in having a friendly relationship with an ex, that one no longer lives with..Nothing dramatically unusual in living with an ex for a period of time..Or letting the kids live with the other parent if they prefer it..

KWIM?

You have to do what you have to do to live a healthy life without hurting other people in the process..

Your choices may or may not follow common advice..

Don't beat yourself up if this is the case..

Just do what feels right to you..Knowing that what feels right can change from time to time..

That is why having a circle of close family and friends in your corner + individual counseling can be a major help...

Do you have GPS on her phone. I would highly recommend to help you feel better.

Walloped, so glad you are leaving your wife in the capable hands of her therapist. Choosing 3 days a week on her own to do the work is huge. This should start to give her the framework to clearing the wreckage. How did your IC go tonight? Hurting Big Time's post gives us all such positive hope. Stay safe, check on your wife, and clear your head. Heartfelt prayers for healing this weekend from my family to yours.

I agree with you w.

One thing only. Make it a high priority to get rid of toxic people and people who aren't friends of the M. Their attitudes and behaviors do rub off and do influence. Your ww needs a support network that can help her while she's drowning. People throwing her chunks of cement to hang onto can cause her to founder. Toxic people removal should be a priority. That said, I am NOT saying this person is toxic. My ww took all sorts of advice during her a period from people not worthy to be trusted walking a dog much less to dispense advice that may be acted on.

I'm glad you are able to get some peace a the bro house. Keep making sure you eat, drink water, and sleep enough.

One Sunday morning I accidentally came across in her email a very inappropriate message to another man. It was in the trash, and there were a thousand more of them. She had tried to delete them but didn't do it properly, so I could see them all the way back to the beginning of the affair.

So I could see how the affair started, how it progressed, and what went on in detail. The similarity in your case is striking.

This is a post excerpted from longtime sucks, which I think describes it well:

He (other man) started with the classical 'good guy' and non-threatening 'buddy' and "shoulder to cry on" or "sympathetic listener" stance. Gave her ego kibbles and validated her. She complained of her husband not helping enough with daughter's wedding because for her THAT was at the time the BIG stressor and what made HER feel important (never mind that Walloped was probably working his but off to provide for her and 5 kids and probably the money for the said wedding).

Sometimes when people are ... too long removed from the high pressure environment of the regular workplaces they lose touch with THAT reality and what THEY are doing becomes more important and is perceived as being more stressful.

In my situation, the other man initiated, I could see that very easily in the emails, but my wife couldn't. I also could see, however, that after about ONLY two weeks or so, the tide turned, and my wife initiated just as much if not more so. I believe this is the case with your wife, too. She was pushing this affair even more than him. That is why he couldn't believe how your wife could just cut him off the affair and end the relationship.

I was able to read every email. There was not a word about my wife about me or the other man's wife; likewise not a mention from the other man about me or his wife, EXCEPT once in a while, things like my wife saying "you can call me later, my husband will be out with the kids" or "I had to shut down, I lost my privacy." Never a mention that my wife wanted to leave me for other man, and maybe occasionally a half-hearted mention from other man saying he wanted to be with my wife, but my impression was that he was very happy on the sexual stuff only and not the real-life stuff.

Just like your situation, I found out other man had lied to my wife about a major thing. He had told my wife he had never had any kids. I investigated other man and found out he had two kids. Also, there was a court order from his former wife stating that he was not allowed to have any contact whatsoever with the kids. I could not determine why he was not allowed to have contact, but it seemed there was some type of abuse involved. It was an ongoing legal situation, he was supposed to pay child support, and he continually did not. Meanwhile, my wife had been telling him how "honorable" he was, how much "respect" she had for him.

I spent a bit amount of time on "what if" other man was not such a liar and POS. I will never know, and neither will you, but what I did come to my truth is that POS, no matter anything else, by nature of the cheating, is a POS. Even if he were an otherwise upstanding great guy, there was no way that relationship ever could have worked in the "real world." It only could have existed as it stayed in the limited style in the fantasy world, outside the realities of kids, families, and integrated living in the world. That is why some people here will call it the "affair bubble." The affair in a case like that only can work inside that "bubble." How could my wife see that from day one?

I find that was true in my situation; I think it was in yours:

Sometimes when people are ... too long removed from the high pressure environment of the regular workplaces they lose touch with THAT reality and what THEY are doing becomes more important and is perceived as being more stressful.

With my wife, the affair was purely selfish on her. She felt she "deserved" it. She took for granted what I did, she saw that I could have done more with the kids, similar to how your wife felt you could have done more with the wedding. But that was not really the affair, and I think it would have happened anyway. My wife/your wife did a lot of good things, she did a great job with the kids, she did a lot of stuff with volunteering, and my wife/your wife felt they deserved it. This is something that broke inside, the "deserving." Why now, at that particular juncture? Feeling that she had reached a "milestone" of sorts in her "career" as SAHM, finishing the kids well on their way to success, and feeling she "deserves" it? SAHMs do not get the same kind of "recognition" you might get in a job - promotions, celebrations.

It had nothing about being a bad husband or lacking in any way.

If the other man had come on strong from the get-go, my wife would have shut him down cold, but this guy eased into it over a period of time, and my wife didn't see it coming. (As a side, I could see in the emails that other man was "playing" it the "long game," but my wife just saw a "nice guy"; he was not overtly coming on to her.) I think the situation was in yours, too, the guy eased into it, then your wife started initiating the affair even more than the other man. The other man basically wanted the sex. In your case, other man would have liked to have your wife live in his extra apartment on the Upper West Side and "keep her" as a mistress. He would never tell her the truth about his wife. He would have just kept this separate. His semi-retired lifestyle with various rental properties, no set hours, he could keep your wife in the dark about her having a wife forever, or at least a long time.

The amount of time my wife spent with the affair is staggering. The amount of time my wife spent communicating with other man, the amount of time my wife spent on thinking about the other man and how she could "win him," the fact that my wife could spend money of about $900 (even very close to the same amount of money in my case), the care of purchasing lingerie - it really did envelope my wife's life into this whole thing.

I believe the compartmental aspect of it is over-emphasized. When your wife was with you, she had to constantly be hiding from you, lying to you, and at the same time planning when she would see other man, planning to buy the gifts, the cuff links, the lingerie, the little cards and notes. Your wife's affair was integrated into her life, she had to think of planning him when she was physically with you, and she had to plan on her life with the kids and with you while she was physically with him.

A few months after I found out, I found an old "e-card" from my wife to the other man. You could pay online for a buck or two an "e-card," like a hallmark card, but sent online. I found out my wife had sent a lot of these cards to other man (never to me, though) for all kinds of "events," mostly like "just thinking of you." My wife had not disclosed it, thought I knew I had read all the emails. Did your wife send any of this stuff?

Also, the juvenile stuff. Celebrating the "3-month anniversary." Any of that stuff for your wife?

In retrospect, prior to the affair, our lives had become "routine," there was not a lot of "passionate romance." When other man sneaked up on her, and she felt this "passionate romance," she took to it like finding water in a desert, and she couldn't get enough of it. This was not a conscious thought of her at that time, this is my revelation AFTER the fact.

Will it possible for you to have your kids stay with you some weekends .I think it can help two ways ,you get to spend time with your kids and your wife gets to see what life could be like after ye divorce if she doesnt fix herself .I hope you enjoy your break.

W...

I just know that my overwhelming need to know EVERYTHING that went on in my fWH relationship was because I felt that what he may have kept from me gave her the power in the relationship...that there was power in the secrets..I believe knowledge is power, and not in a physical strength way, but in a "there is nothing you (the OW) know that I don't know so you have no power in this relationship" way. With that, IMHO you can take back control not of her, but control of who you are in relation to her.

God, I so agree wk55. I strongly oppose the "compartmentalization" argument. WS always want to say "I wasn't even thinking about you!" Oh the fuck you weren't. You were constantly thinking about me - your next lie to me, your next time away from me, how I was the big party pooper getting in the way of how you REALLY wanted to spend your time, even how stupid I was to not figure it out and how I made it that much easier for you to continue to fool me. I think the compartmentalism argument can go the way of the "addiction" excuse and the "just plain bat-shit crazy" argument. For a ONS, maybe......., for an affair spanning multiple months and accelerating the whole time? Just no.

Also, striking in your wife's affair, and in my own, and in hundreds of affairs on this site and in real life - HOW FAST THE AFFAIR WENT FROM ZERO TO INTENSE.

I knew my wife for years before I dated her, then I dated, we were both in our late 20s, neither of us no kids or previous marriages, nothing to "lose," really, but it was about close to a year before I proposed, then I think about six months more before we actually got married. And back then I remember some people telling me "you went so fast, take some time."

Then you see this affair, and they are "in love" in like a month. ??? I think that is a pretty good indication that it is not a "real" love, and most likely it is not the "other man/woman," but rather something breaking inside themselves. Especially when with the affair there is so much to lose with the family and kids, how complicated this all will be, and they fall "in love" so quick. ???

How could your spouse "fall in love" with another person so quickly? They can't.

Outstanding posts, wk55hn, thank you.

I remember reading a remark in the Menz threads once regarding what happens when a woman finds a shoulder to cry on in another man (besides her committed partner)... "A shoulder to cry on becomes a dick to ride on."

About secrets, too... Shirley Glass in "Not Just Friends" discusses how the secrets of an affair wreak their havoc. She talks about "walls" vs "windows" in relationships. The secrets of an affair not only open up windows to strengthen it, they concurrently build walls into the original partner relationship that weakens it.

That's why affairs are so lethal--they reverse the proper "windows" and "walls" that each partner in a committed relationship should safeguard.

It's also a critical step to correcting the situation for marriages in crisis because of infidelity and it's totally the province of the wayward (assuming they want to do it)--i.e., tear down the walls they've erected with their committed partner during the affair by building windows (transparency), while reversing that process with the AP (e.g., no contact.)

Crap... After almost three years--even after gaining so much understanding as to HOW this shit happens (vs how lost I was when it all went down)--the pain still revisits me. Now is one of those times.

It's just so pernicious, destructive, evil. And only we BS truly understand this pain; no one who hasn't been through it, can. Not our wayward partner, our kids, our parents, friends, no one who hasn't lived it. We're an exclusive club.

Blessings to all (and chapel here I come), LA

great post Livinganew. That first quote is dead on

I believe the compartmental aspect of it is over-emphasized. When your wife was with you, she had to constantly be hiding from you, lying to you, and at the same time planning when she would see other man, planning to buy the gifts, the cuff links, the lingerie, the little cards and notes. Your wife's affair was integrated into her life, she had to think of planning him when she was physically with you, and she had to plan on her life with the kids and with you while she was physically with him.

Great post wk55hn. The above is obviously true. However the example I would use is going on vacation. You do plan and think about how great the vacation will be while at work.

When I’ve been on vacation for a bit my everyday life seems less concrete. I’m absorbed with what I’ll be doing the next day in this new place.

When I return from vacation and I’m back to being immersed in my everyday life the vacation seems unreal. I think that’s part of the emotions of “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 12:19 PM, August 28th (Friday)]