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I Can Relate :
Madhatters Only Thread

Topic is Sleeping.

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 3:51 PM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2016

Hi everyone, just checking in. My H put an offer on a house last night. We should here tomorrow if it's been accepted- and he wouldn't move out for a month. I'm just so incredibly sad right now. I feel like a failure as a partner (my A was first), I feel so rejected by my H and I haven't even started coming to terms with his betrayal. We want to try and stay friends but I just don't know how it is possible. I want my old life back. I want to go back six months ago when life was plugging along... It's just so hard to come to terms with. 20years of good times and history wiped out by a few months of horror.

I'm struggling the most with his betrayal and trust. Even though we are over I still find myself snooping and feeling anxiety when I don't know if what he is telling me is the truth. He got himself some burner email addresses when he was on Ashley Madison and god knows whatever other websites. We're in separate rooms in the house and last night he went to his room around 8pm. With his phone. He is staying after work tomorrow for a staff softball game practice (is he really??).

I don't know why I care at this point and I don't know why it bothers me. He promised me he would stop all activities until we are separated. And I really want to believe him. But I can't. And I need to get over it. And I need to get over him.

Even in a perfect world where he still wanted to be with me and try and work through this I don't think it is salvageable. So I don't know why I can't logic my way through this. We're done. It's over. The best we can hope for is a friendship. But I still hurt so deeply and am so sad all the time. I've forgotten what it feels like to feel joy and happiness. And I know my H can't bring me those things even if he wanted to. I just need to move on but I'm stuck. So that's my day... Hope all of you are better than me.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7665542

AMaeMOBluesawyer ( member #54932) posted at 7:55 PM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2016


I'm sorry to hear you're so down, but it's part of the process. Tons of ups and more downs. The roller coaster. I'd try not to worry about what he is doing. Just keep busy with your own stuff. It will get better one day, but for now just accept your feelings and don't push them down. It's okay to feel like a failure. You're not. It's okay to be sad and angry. You have the right. Don't second guess though bc you can't go backward only forward.

Keep going to IC. Concentrate on you. I've been there, all the emotions during the split. I was numb and still in a weird fantasyland. I still struggle sometimes with all the repercussions of my choices and my his choices. It sucks. I have to say for me though I wouldn't go back to before it all began bc that'd be like before we got married. Ugh. Oh well. This has shaped us in unknown ways and it continues to shape who we are far beyond today.

Have you posted in the S/D forum, yet?

Call me AMae.
Me, 50: MH; 1st as BS; dd1 3/06 LTA, dd2 5/09 EA; then as WW 3 mo PA confessed 10/10
Him, 50: WS - EA/PA/LTA from 12/03-5/09
Together 25y (M 17) before I left 01/11
2Dsons: 11/03, 01/05

posts: 93   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016   ·   location: Gulf Coast
id 7665823

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 10:15 PM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2016

Thanks for your guidance. It is a roller coaster and I hate it. I need to stop caring. That's what's so hard. Any my H and I have nothing to really talk about any more. All of our common interests have pretty much died. Conversations are now about our situation and the kids. No plans for the future, no plans for vacations. Just a lot of pain and hurt and sadness and anger. I'm not sure if we are going to be able to stay friends. I'd like to because he has been my best friend for so long and such a big part of my life. I'm having a hard time with the recent events overshadowing all the good times we had and the memories. And it doesn't help that he's minimized his actions and blamed them on him being weak. I still don't recognize him as the man I married. It's amazing that a short period of horrible decisions can almost negate a lifetime of happiness.

I haven't meandered over to S/D because I am still licking my wounds and most of the people there seem to be betrayed spouses so I'm afraid I'd get a lot of 2x4's and not a lot of support as a WW. I feel much safer here in the MH thread and in the WS thread. And I don't feel very safe overall so that says a lot.

I think the grief over my lost future is also part of it. We had plans. We had dreams. We are in our 40's so retirement is in the foreseeable future. He makes almost twice what I do so my financial situation is going to drastically change. I'll be okay but I'm going to have to budget for the first time since college. It's just a lot to deal with.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7665965

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 11:22 PM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2016


Thanks as always for your helpful comments.

4 months certainly does feel like forever. I had my IC tonight which helped, and we were able to talk around some issues with me that I hadn't discussed before, which was most useful.

I just get frustrated with the texts right now. The vast majority are so formal and scripted, rather than the smiley faces, and talk about all sorts. Being fair to my BS, we did have a funny few messages later in the day, but again, its me pushing the messages, not her. If I didn't send any, I don't think I'd received anything, and of course it makes me wonder what on earth she's doing on an evening - assumptions again!

I managed not to text tonight, and the texts I had sent were limited so its giving her space which I know she'll appreciate. I like the idea you suggest of keeping a list of the important topics to talk with her about, and I think communications should be one of them.

What the time is giving is time to heal from some of the difficult discussions / positions we've had in recent weeks, and any contact is more positive than negative, albeit more formal (and the formal BS just doesn't come across as the partner I always knew, who is usually full of enthusiasm - but she hurts, alot, which I shouldn't forget.)

The dating bothers me but you made a valid comment about starting over being tiring, so its important for me to keep an open mind and not alter the changes I've been making. When it gets to this stage, the no contact should be easier, and at that point it may be an opener for the BS to genuinely wonder where I am, and miss me. Many notes to myself to not look pathetic, and have patience.

Hope that your IC went well. I hope it is helping to deal with your issues, and to help with the changes. It will certainly feel like a daunting task, but maybe by approaching it in baby steps (it being a marathon not a sprint), would make the task a bit easier. It will be worth all of the hard work in the end. Keep in there.


I really do sympathise with you, particularly around the comment you made about feeling like you don't recognise him as being the man you married, and recent events overshadowing all the good times, and memories.

Its so difficult. I'm very much in the same place, although still clinging onto hope. The hard part for me is living in separate houses, and at times when trying to communicate over text (which I always instigate, alot of the messages are so cold, and formal, unlike some of the fun conversations we've been able to have (this followed the hard discussion that I had questioning what I feared was a revenge affair.)

All I can say to you is that there's still time for things to get resolved (even though it will feel impossible), as everything is so raw at the moment, particularly with the complexity of being a MH. I know it must seem more final with the house offer, but maybe thats the space you both need for a bit as its easy to get on top of one another if you are under the same roof.

[This message edited by Hopeful16 at 5:25 PM, September 20th (Tuesday)]

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7666022

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 2:06 PM on Wednesday, September 21st, 2016


I totally get the texting and contact situation. Even though I am still in the same house as my H it is hard not to text him or call him at work constantly like I used to. He still initiates contact during the work day but from my end I have to be calculated as to not look pathetic. I hate the game. It's not natural and it takes effort not to fall back into old habits.

We are going to try and stay friends. But it's so hard not to get excited and feel something when we are getting along. I need to work on separating my love for him from our hopefully future friendship. That's going to be the hardest part.

Hopeful, you and I have a similar timeline I think. My dday was the end of June, his dday was the Monday before Labor Day. It's a horrible awful place to be.

I had a long talk with my brother last night- he's divorced and in a wonderful long term relationship. I came clean to him on all the details of the split (only one other person knows the real reason). I found out my brothers divorce was also due to infidelity. I never knew that but why would I? His W cheated on him and he basically did what my H did- went online and went a bit nuts. It was hard to hear but insightful to know what my H did wasn't totally uncommon I guess. I'm just having a hard time with my H's immediate lack of love for me once finding out. It's just a hard pill to swallow.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7666439

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 7:57 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2016

I does take a lot of effort not to fall back into old habits, I completely agree. I've tried hard this week to reduce contact, but it sure does hurt.

The messages aren't quite as cold now which is one positive however her stance on a R and just wanting to be friends remains the same, which is annoying as when I was at the house just last night she had clearly made herself look nice with makeup, cooked my tea, and even ordered a present for me / my mum, yet her defence is always down. I know I can't take any of those reasons as indications all is heading the direction I want it to. Its too easy to read more into things at this stage, as you said "its so hard not to get excited and feel something when we are getting along" - I do this all the time.

You are right, you can't come across as looking pathetic (easier said than done!)

It is the hardest part separating your love for your once was partner from a future friendship. The thought of her dating, being in touch with another guy breaks me every time. I'm sure it must be easier now (as I'm not as reactive to my feelings) but it does still push me into feeling more depressed. Its even impacted work and I had a warning to say that I either look to take sick leave for depression or improve my performance (but then work have had to put up with my ups and downs for 4 months, so I understand where they are coming from!) I do wonder if my BS is just more friendly these last few days because she knows she needs to keep me happy so that I can pay for the house for her; again, I could be wrong (grr @ assumptions!)

We do have similar timelines. I posted on Wayward about where others were 4 months after Dday and there's some interesting posts. Whats clear and as AMae rightly pointed out, its very much a stage where the BS's feelings are in flux. I saw that last night, I could tell that she was still hurting so much at the core and has many layers that she needs to discuss with an IC - at least she's now seeing an IC.

Its beneficial for your support that your brother has been through something similar and can share his experience with you. Unfortunately its too easy with the internet these days to go nuts as you say, and find someone else. My BS is attractive and I know it would have only taken a few clicks for her to find someone, whilst not serious, but a bit of fun under the covers.

I'm just having a hard time with my H's immediate lack of love for me once finding out. It's just a hard pill to swallow

I sympathise with you about this. Its particularly because they in effect did the same as what we did as WS's yet don't show the same empathy and remorse? I can of get that because we initiated the issues and led them down that path, but it would make things easier if they had some recognition of what they had done too, and talked about it. i've never once seen any remorse or received an explanation about what happened, and I try hard to not bring it up anymore to allow us to focus on the future - yet I still get all the questions about why I strayed. I think I'm just looking to be able to be more at more of an "even" with the betrayals. I need to get that out of my head and continue to focus on me, and being that safe partner or friend to her now.

Despite all of this, I will never give in to an R. You just don't know how things might be in another 4 months, so always keep that at the back of your mind whilst working on you and the now.

[This message edited by Hopeful16 at 2:02 PM, September 23rd (Friday)]

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7668751

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 8:45 PM on Friday, September 23rd, 2016

I've had to give up my outcome. My H just doesn't have it in him to do the work and honestly, when I dig deep and allow his betrayal to sink in, what he did was pretty awful too. I do feel as though he got off really easy. I haven't pushed the issue with him and he minimizes his behavior and I know he won't analyze it, just not the kind of guy he is.

I'm so sad about the dissolution of my marriage. My brother pointed out that cheating is a symptom and not the diagnosis-obviously there were some things lacking in the marriage. I just wish I'd recognized them before I did what I did so they could he fixed. Too late now.

And I agree with you in that the idea of him being with someone else turns my stomach. He isn't going to have a hard time replacing me. He's a very attractive guy with a great job and a great salary. And we are amicable so I'm not trying to take him for anything. He won't owe child support or alimony, we're just splitting assets. He needs to be taken care of so I think he'll move on quickly. But I really don't recognize him as the man I married or the guy who has been my best friend for the past 20 years.

I hope you and your wife can pull off a friendship. My H and I are trying to and it's working so far. We have been such an important part of each other's lives for so long it's worth at least trying.

I'm starting to get optimistic about my future. I think I'm coming to terms with the fact the marriage is over and done. I'm sure it's going to get much more difficult before it gets better. And this forum has helped me tremendously. I'm sure I'm going to need it for a very long time.

I hope you can find some peace. I didn't start feeling any better until I let go of what I can't control (the marriage surviving) and started accepting that I had no control over it. I've been in a much better place the past few days. I think it's once I finally stopped being so pathetic and picked myself up that things started to be clearer and days aren't so horrible.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7668809

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 11:42 PM on Sunday, September 25th, 2016

I'm beginning to feel the same re: giving up my outcome, its just too much hard work, anger and frustration not being able to see a glimmer of hope, with each day being the same as the day before. Its like we are now on an even plain, with no peaks, or drops.

It sounds like he did get off really easy, but its a tricky one when you are a WS because in a way what they did was excusable. I feel the same and I never want to bring it up because it only ends up pushing my BS further away (if thats even possible now!) My BS has many complex layers to analyse in herself and I don't think this particular issue is high on her list to discuss with her IC, when really it should be. I'm at the stage now where I don't care too much about it anymore. I probably would have had an R (at some point in the future) been a possibility.

I'm the same with regards to there being something lacking in the marriage to cause the betrayal. There had been for me, and I've explored this at length with my IC. The frustrating part is that the marriage wasn't terrible but just some little cracks that had formed around the edges that hadn't been reviewed and fixed. Like you say, I wish I had recognised them so they could be fixed, rather than be where we are now when its potentially too late. That said, we can't beat ourselves up about it. A new chapter may now open which makes us happier, not that we can see it as clearly at the moment.

Its weird how similar our situation is. My wife is also very attractive and she won't have a hard time replacing me either, and she's the sort of person who likes to have someone there for her. I'm just waiting for that day when I hear about a new love, which I really dread happening. When I'm at the house to see my children she often has her phone upside down so I can't see what messages she's receiving - it winds me up every time!

At least you just have to deal with splitting assets. Its very complicated for us having children, and I could never cut my BS out of my life (in some ways I feel it would make it easier to not see her again, despite still loving her.) Everytime I try to be strong and think "oh, I'm not going to message her anymore", I do, and I always get a reply; infact, the replies have been much more light hearted recently, but still not the same. I'm sure that will get easier to deal with in time. And when we aren't together, my mind just assumes that all she's doing in messaging other men, its horrible (I'm sure that many of my assumptions are incorrect!) I'm sick of being the one who messages her first.

But I really don't recognize him as the man I married or the guy who has been my best friend for the past 20 years.

I've seen this alot in my BS. She's always so polite and formal, rather than seeing the real person inside that I always knew and fell in love with. The real person is still there, but I feel her defence system is stopping her from showing that side - because our relationship a different kind now, and she doesn't feel she can trust me, or respect me. I'm so sorry you've had to see this in him; I know how hard that is after being with someone as long. Its always possible that you'll see a different them in time, once the dust as settled so try not to lose hope!

I think that the friendship we have will only be temporary. Once she finds a new partner (unless she decides to come back and look at an R), I just can't have much contact with her anymore. Its part of my own healing. In my BS's eyes, we can still be friends and have family days out together, but in my opinion that just wouldn't be possible with a new partner on the scene (how would they feel for example seeing my BS still out and about with their xWS.) I admire how you are trying to work on the friendship because its not an easy one at all.

I'm also pleased to hear that you are starting to get optimistic about your future. Thats the right attitude. You are going through the grieving process (which hurts) but you'll come out the other end happier, albeit it will take time. I can see the graveyard of our marriage but I'm just not willing to enter it yet to say goodbye. I'll have to soon enough though, so I best go find that black tie and brush off the dust.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7670091

LostTeach ( new member #53040) posted at 5:47 PM on Sunday, October 2nd, 2016

Question: is the fact that I had a month long EA/PA (sex with AP once) worse than my husband picking up a stranger and having sex one time? He says in his mind it is and I disagree saying it's the same thing. We both slept with other people!

[This message edited by LostTeach at 12:15 PM, October 2nd (Sunday)]

Me MH 38
Him MH 40
D-day Feb 2016
Married 19 years
Together 22 years
1 son in college w/daughter of his own
1 daughter at home
Working on R

posts: 7   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2016
id 7675952

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 12:13 PM on Sunday, October 9th, 2016

Question: is the fact that I had a month long EA/PA (sex with AP once) worse than my husband picking up a stranger and having sex one time? He says in his mind it is and I disagree saying it's the same thing. We both slept with other people!

I'd have said it was the same thing, but if one party did this while seperated (like an RA) then you could say that they were within their rights to do this, as in my circumstances, unless you were working towards an R.

If you both did this whilst together, then you both cheated, regardless of how many times, who with etc.

I do hope you work through this though and are able to put it behind, but thats easier said that done I appreciate, and the hurt / pain on both sides will be extremely difficult, that I can appreciate. Its important if you can to stop getting bitter and focus on what could be a better future now, with these issues now on the table.

[This message edited by Hopeful16 at 6:15 AM, October 9th (Sunday)]

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7681051

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 12:28 PM on Sunday, October 9th, 2016

My situation just keeps getting worse :(

I had a great night out with the BS last Thursday. We went shopping for our children, had a meal, then headed back to drop her off. Both of us enjoyed it.

I'd only got back to my parents and received a text from her to push forward the family mediation (which to be fair she had mentioned during the shop, but seemed to acknowledge that I just needed to deal with it in my own time.)

I said that I didn't want to be going there, to which she sent a text to say that she needed to let me know that she had already been on a date, and that she wanted to go on another with the same person.

Of course it hit me so badly, more than I had even prepared myself for, and I ended up on the phone to her in a bad way, and even back at the house, to the point that I had scared her with everything I was saying; I wanted to have a go at this guy, when its got nothing to do with him.

The days followed by the police turning up at the house because my BS was concerned I was going to kill myself. I even stood at the top of a cliff, and told my BS where I was. I really wanted to end it all.

I then had a nice evening with the boys whilst my BS was out with her neighbour. I got them to bed and she came back drunk, but we managed to have a decent heard to heart without both scaring her, although we were in tears at many points.

Anyway, I stayed over in the guest room and enjoyed spending a bit more time with the boys, and left on the evening after getting them to bed. Again, everything was fairly amicable between us, and I was OK.

I decided to go on a drive in my car, but because it was dark on some of the roads (no street lights) I began to feel very low and lonely, so I text my BS; many things I shouldn't have done. She was trying to be polite saying I needed to grieve, which was good of her, but deep inside I was hurting so much knowing she had someone else. I asked to go back to the house rather than drive all the way back to my parents, but she said no, she wanted space (which was sensible I'm sure given the mood I was in.)

Her response (because I was scaring her again) was that she had asked her dad to go to the house, and she was phoning the police. I then called her phone 22 times, and her dad got in touch with a text to say that he wanted to see me as all of this getting her scared had to stop. But the thing is, I would have been OK had she not mentioned the whole second date; it really messed with my mind when I was trying to work out how best to deal with being apart now, and going through with a D.

I did the wrong thing, and ended up at the house to see her dad. He came out (of what is still technically my house) and put his hand on my neck ready to punch me for putting her in this state. I wanted to do the same to him to, and I think I would have done had I had a chance that it would have hurt him (but I'm fairly skinny and he's well built.) Of course its not his fault, and he is protecting his daughter - doing the right thing; but it was a million emotions that I just didn't know how to deal with.

I eventually left and went back to my parents, and its made me realise that even after 10 IC sessions, I've got to do something about all of this, so I'm going to change to a different IC. But everything hurts, a lot. I've broken contact with my BS, to give her space, but it kills me not being able to be in touch, and thinking about this other person in her life. I'm in such a rut, and its all my fault.

She did also say that this date isn't the same as the person who's clothes I found, so she's been on multiple dates in the space of 4.5 months since she found out about what I did. Of course, she's well within her rights to do this, because we have been apart, but it still doesn't make things any easier.

I think I'm strong enough to not want to end it all and ever being together again; although its scary how close it got looking over a cliff and just thinking about it.

[This message edited by Hopeful16 at 6:30 AM, October 9th (Sunday)]

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7681054

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 8:19 PM on Sunday, October 9th, 2016


So sorry you're going through this. I'm not there yet with my husband seeing other people (or at least I'm not aware if he is- truth isn't a quality of his these day). So I can't relate yet but I'm sure I will be there at some point. I think the best thing you can do at this point is disengage with your wife. You need some space to heal and to process and to reflect. Definitely get a different IC, it sounds like the current one hasn't helped much. Can you limit your contact with your wife to only about the kids?

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7681245

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 10:12 PM on Friday, October 14th, 2016

Thanks for the comments Isthereanyhope, which I appreciate.

Its been better since last Saturday and contact with my xBS has much improved. I've tried not to over do it, but she's been quite poorly so I'm limiting contact to just seeing how she is, and the same for my children. I think its been appreciated.

I do miss her making contact first, as generally its me who initiates the comms, but maybe this is just what I've got to get used to now unfortunately.

There's been no further mention of this date, which has helped and that may well be down to her being unwell. She did hit a trigger with something she found from a holiday away which wasn't even true, and it sent her down a bit of a spiral, but apart from that we've been able to sit in the same room and get on fairy well.

An R still feels highly unlikely (which I wish for more than anything) and its awful having to get used to the just being friends thing, while thinking in the back of my mind that there may be someone else. When it goes quiet on an evening on the text front I imagine her being sat there talking / texting away to someone - but I'm sure she probably thinks the same of me and I'm on here! For me it seems that her main issue is about trust, and maybe in her head she still thinks I'm up to no good, yet thats hard to prove when we live in seperate houses and she can't see my phone. I always leave my phone on show when I go to see her (and there's no notifications turned off either) to show that I'm not hiding anything.

I've definitely managed to detach myself from my xBS more, not that I'm enjoying it by a long long mile. And on the plus side too, I've been able to heal and I'm no longer thinking of ending it all (mind, the increase in dosage on my meds is helping there.)

I hope things are improving on your side?

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7685169

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 6:41 PM on Saturday, October 15th, 2016

Hopeful, I'm glad things have improved some. You seemed to be in a pretty bad place last time you checked in. Things have been quiet on my end. My husband closes on his house this week and will start moving out right away although he hasn't packed a thing yet. I have no idea what life is going to look like once he's gone, as we're currently still hanging out and doing stuff together. I'm sure my world is about to come crashing down. He seems to think we will still be hanging out frequently and doing stuff together. He wants to take me out to celebrate my birthday and is planning on coming to the neighborhood Halloween party and a neighbor's game night. While I'm happy to have the friendship I'm not sure how it's going to help either of us move on. The next few weeks are going to be interesting.

Hang in there, it's a roller coaster ride. I feel better having given up the outcome (staying together) and I really am working hard on me. Still in IC, may look into going back to school for my masters, have a lot of house projects I want to do. Basically just trying to keep busy to keep my mind off my reality.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7685561

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 10:53 AM on Monday, October 17th, 2016

Isthereanyhope - I can imagine that this week will be more difficult for you with your husband closing on his house, and moving out, so I hope you find strength to be able to deal with the change however the space might be just whats required. Just keep an open mind about what its going to be like when he's gone.

Its great that your wants to take you out for your birthday and you should see that as a positive. As you say, the next few weeks will be interesting. If my BS was wanting to see me as much, I'd be really pleased, but I appreciate that at this stage in the relationship there's quite a blurred line with regards to being friends - its so tough when things aren't the same anymore. I do often find that my BS acts very differently now; quite polite, more formal and I wish so much to see the old her. This happens at times, its not completely gone.

Going back to school to do your Masters will take your mind off everything, as well as opening up a social side too - doing something for you! House projects are always interesting to get your teeth stuck into too.

Yeh I think that some things have definitely improved on my side thanks. Certainly a week ago we were hardly talking and yesterday I popped to see her and our boys to provide a bit of support both to give her a break and to help do a well needed sort out of the toy room, which she appreciated and bought me a takeaway to say thank you. So once again, my actions rather than words.

That said, after the boys got to bed, I felt she was clock watching quite a bit for me to go at 9pm and its a times like this which do really affect me, particularly after working hard to help.

This is where my assumptions start to spiral and it hurts - did she want to get rid of me so she could talk to her 'date' or not? And her phone has barely been in sight again. I know I have to move on and let go of the outcome, but this being friends is difficult as I still care for her hugely (and still love her too). Things she says like "my living room", "my bedroom" when its still a house I pay for and have been moved out of to my parents frustrates me hugely, but then its me who put us in this mess. I try not to say anything. We never talk about our feelings much now too and I've always just got to assume that she will be in alot of pain because its still only 5 months since dday - maybe thats why she wanted me to leave, to have space to think, and deal with the hurt.

The big question is whether I can continue being in touch the way we are, and live with the tiniest bit of hope, or just break away completely. Whilst I know she is having a date to make her feel better, it still hurts that she's wanted to move on so quickly and I feel, why should I even bother?!

At least I know that in myself I'm doing the right things. I went to church yesterday and got mixing with some new people. Its a fairly big church too and there's lots of opportunities to get involved. I've never once looked to make contact with anyone online (despite being on my own completely sucking!) and my job is improving because I've worked hard.

Basically just trying to keep busy to keep my mind off my reality.

This is so important. I hate it when my diary looked bare (like this week!)

[This message edited by Hopeful16 at 4:55 AM, October 17th (Monday)]

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7686373

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 5:42 PM on Tuesday, October 18th, 2016

I have the same assumptions as you about my husbands free time- assuming he's texting with some online woman or another. It's great you went to church- a great way to meet new people and expand your friendship base. And I'm sorry it seems she's moving on quickly. I have suspicions that's what is happening here too. My A was such a huge deal for him but his own A pretty much never happened in that he never had any repercussions because we weren't going to stay together anyway. I know I put us down this path but it just sucks that he never had to go through the guilt and shame I had as a WS.

He went to his room last night with his iPad and phone at 7:15 saying he was really tired. I took the kids out of town this past weekend so we hadn't seen him and I tried my best to not think about what he was doing or who he was doing it with. He's proven to be quite the liar lately. Thinks he's very convincing even though he's lying about things that are impossible to not get caught (like downloading free texting apps onto his phone).

I'm not sure how this is going to play out. I'd like to think I'm strong enough to stay friends with him. I have a great friend who thinks it's incredibly unhealthy for me to still hang out with my husband once we're separated. She thinks it will prevent either one of us (or at least me) from moving on. She also thinks it may screw up the kids if the separated parents are hanging out and doing things frequently. She makes good points. She thinks I am making this so much harder on myself because I'm scared of the future and the unknown. She wants me to rip off the bandaid and go from being a friend to him to a just a coparent. I'm leaning toward that but we need to get the separation agreement finalized before I detach completely. Right now everything is amicable and he's not fighting me on anything. It's equitable but I am entitled to almost half his retirement which is pretty significant and he will definitely miss at some point. I don't want to upset him until everything is signed. And honestly he may be meeting women online (speculation based on his behavior during his A) but he really has very few friends and very few people to interact with on a day to day basis. Not my problem but I feel a little bad for him in that regard.

He hasn't started packing yet for the move! Not one box. We've been in our current house over 13 years. He has a lot of stuff. I have no idea what the holdup is. I'm terrified he's going to drag it out over weeks when I really think we need a clean break to move on.

I honestly don't know what's going on in my husbands head. I really think he's totally checked out of the marriage and really has just friend-zoned me. And I guess I've friend-zoned him but honestly there are still feelings there. It's just hard to tell and I never realized what a horrible communicator he was until this situation. He still hugs me frequently and sometimes holds my hand when sitting next to me on the couch. Again his actions don't match his words. So it makes it harder for me to be buddies. Although honestly I don't love the man he is now and I deserve so, so much better. I guess I'm just a little lost right now. And hanging on for the roller coaster this week will surely bring. At least I had the foresight to take off work on Friday. Pretty much guaranteed to be a mess.

[This message edited by Isthereanyhope at 11:50 AM, October 18th (Tuesday)]

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7687481

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 6:45 PM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2016

Assumptions are so dangerous, I hate them, but what else can you do when you don't have full trust in someone?

My A was such a huge deal for him but his own A pretty much never happened in that he never had any repercussions because we weren't going to stay together anyway. I know I put us down this path but it just sucks that he never had to go through the guilt and shame I had as a WS.

Oh I know the feeling! I stick up for my BS to a certain extent because we had seperated at the time she met others (and I caused this), but it still hurts hugely.

I empathise about how you feel when your husband took his iphone and ipad up with him early. That never looks good unfortunately. (but on the other hand it could be absolutely nothing - again, assumptions are horrid.) Anytime I'm around at my BS's, I leave my phone within easy reach if she wanted to check my phone as there's nothing to find. Mind, I did notice when we were out again yesterday that her phone was very visible and she always told me who she was texting - this is the first time I've seen her phone so visible in a while; I wondered if she was trying to show me some trust, which I appreciated although I never told her.

Its good that you took your children out of town to keep your mind of your husband. I did that the other weekend, and it does help to keep your mind busy, but I missed my BS alot.

You mention that he's proving to be quite the liar lately - thats not great and will only add to your own anxiety. Unless he can be honest, there's no way you could ever go back, although I get the impression that you are more steering towards getting used to being apart now, but nonetheless its still hard, and painful. "downloading free texting apps onto his phone" - how frustrating for you. This ties in a bit with what I read on other posts about the BS wanting to punish us WS's for what we've done, and that is what he is likely to be doing. Subconsiously hurting you, and knowing that it will wind you up, particularly given that your own A was a big deal to him.

Staying friends is tricky, especially when other partners are involved and you still have feelings. I don't think I can do it. I'm trying now, but thats made easier because there's nothing visible in terms of someone else. Fast forward a few months and if there was someone serious, then I don't think I could get on how we do now. How would the other partner feel if they knew my BS was still going around with their xWS. It would only end up more bitter, and even worse if they started living in what I still regard as my own house (which I appreciate is still a long way off.)

Try to keep an open mind about everything. You just never know, if your BS could come around and be more honest, and wanting something more from you, you might be able to R. It would require a great deal of IC and MC to get there given that you feel hurt over what he did too. I think its a good sign that your BS isn't in a huge rush to move out, or maybe he's just being a bit lazy?

I never really thought about how all of this (staying friends) might mess with our childrens heads. My son often asks for sleep overs and it breaks my heart that I can't (and I hate living away from the house and staying at my parents.) I want to be over at the house all the time but I'm trying my best to respect my BS's boundaries.

I enjoyed last night because we all went for tea together, and whilst my BS was out for a few hours at a class, I was able to sort my children out for bed. We had a lot of fun, and its a rarity these days to be in the house on my own with my BS not around (but equally, it showed that my BS could trust me not to snoop in her cupboards - and I didn't.) But then today has been tough, as 'some' my BS's texts once again came across as being somewhat colder. I got the impression she was either hurting (and so didn't feel comfortable being in touch) or she was trying to keep me out of the way because there was someone else in touch / around / wanting to move on with them. However, the positive part is that she's going to see an IC next week and clearly took the initiative to do that this morning; I have a lot of respect for my BS doing this, because it won't be easy seeing someone face to face to talk about what she's been through and is going through. She has even been making a huge effort to tidy the house and spend time with me, so its not all bad, but I still sit and wonder what this date person is all about (and if the cleaning of the house is for their benefit) - how serious are they, is he going to fizzle out, is she out on a date tonight or at the weekend? Its awful, I really hate being here.

She wants me to rip off the bandaid and go from being a friend to him to a just a coparent.

I think if he can't be trusted then you will have to do that, and I'm going to do the same if I think that we aren't going to go anywhere. I don't give up a fight easily though. I read on the site that you need to give your BS at least a year and more before making a final decision, even if they keep telling you no, simply because the pain that they feel is significant and won't go away overnight - thats a tough one because you will be the same as me, you just can't take this limbo any longer, and want to feel happy again. This is all a battle but I'm sure before long we'll both come out ok!

I honestly don't know what's going on in my husbands head. I really think he's totally checked out of the marriage and really has just friend-zoned me. And I guess I've friend-zoned him but honestly there are still feelings there.

You are so similar in how you feel, its like looking in a mirror. I still think there's some feelings there for me from my BS, but boy, she not tell me at all, which makes it all the more harder. It seems that her defence system is always down, and who can blame her really. In order to R there has to be very good communications, and they just aren't there at the moment like you. Maybe we are both just afraid of saying things incase they are taken the wrong way (and the same for your husband)

There's times when I don't see the woman I fell in love with (the colder aspect of her responses) so again, I understand where you are coming from, but then there's times I really do see who I truly love.

At least you get hugs though, thats definitely positive. We never hugs, and we never get physical in that respect. To me, he just seems confused with what he wants and he may start coming around. I'd give anything for a hug from her right now, nevermind holding my hand.

Hang in there for a little bit longer and see where it gets to, but ultimately you do deserve to have someone who makes you happy, and if he's not able to give you that then you'll have to move on.

I hope you have a few more highs and lows. It does help though when you have an idea that things may end up a mess and plan for that (something that I've never really got a good grip of)

For now I'm trying to keep myself busy. I don't have any plans until church on Sunday and this is going to be hard, harder than other weeks, especially now the texts have started to drop off. At some point I will have to consider stepping off the roller coaster because I just can't keep carrying on like this, certainly not for another 5 months. I'll only end up off a cliff!

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7688475

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 12:12 PM on Friday, October 21st, 2016

Hopeful, our situations sound so similar and our spouses sound similar as well. At least your wife is now being more transparent with the texting. I totally get how our thought processes are going to change once a confirmed third party is brought into the mix. As of now, I'm pretty sure my husband doesn't have anyone else but he could very well be interacting with people online. Although the last few nights he's stayed up watching tv really late.

I closed on my refi on Wednesday so now I can (sort of) afford to stay in the house, at least until the kids are out of high school. It's going to be tight but I know how to budget even though I haven't had to for many, many years. My husband closed on his house yesterday and took (wait for it) ONE load of stuff over to his new place. Still hasn't packed a thing. It's a combination of laziness and codependency. History says I'll do it all for him. I haven't at this point but I am so, so tempted just to start moving on. He does have some neighborhood guys lined up for tomorrow with a Uhaul so he'll have to at least get the big stuff while he has the truck.

Regarding communication, I guess I've never had to communicate the rough topics with my husband before. He's horrible at it and it's like talking to a wall. I share something personal or emotional and he just blinks at me. I don't know if he has no self awareness or insight or if he just doesn't want to participate in the tough conversations.

I'm trying to establish some boundaries to protect the kids. No overnight visitors when on kid duty- kids will be gone in four years and sharing custody 50/50 we should have plenty of time to spend the night with others if we want to. Also, no bringing anyone else around unless the new relationship is serious. I foresee my husband dating soon and having several women around. I don't want to confuse the kids or cause them more pain. I told him yesterday that once he's out we have to start detaching. No more hanging out just to hang out or we (I) will never move on. I already find myself going over "what ifs" in my mind. Like what if I have plans with friends but he calls and wants to do something. Realistically? I may actually drop the plans to hang out with him. I need to get over that mindset quickly.

I'm starting to get mad at him and I am so disappointed in him. Mad because of what he did and his immediate response to my A (immediately going online and trolling for sex). Mad because he didn't value our relationship enough to fight for it (okay I know how ridiculous that sounds-I am the one who had the A first, I get it but still). Mad because he didn't ever offer me a chance at R. Disappointed because of the stupid lies. And he is adamant that he's not lying which just disappoints me more- I'd always admired his honesty and his integrity and it was one of his best qualities. Now it's gone.

From my end, I have a lot of work I want to do on myself and frankly want to be a little selfish. I have no intention of dating any time in the foreseeable future and honestly may just wait a year until my divorce is final. If I want to paint my house, I'll pick a color I like and paint it. If I want to go for a hike, I'm planning on going for a hike. I'm a horrible singer but I really, really want to do karaoke- haven't done that since I was in college. I have lots of house projects I want to do. I really want to make my house my own. My IC says it's normal to want to purge after going through this.

I think both of us our going to have to exit our comfort zones and put ourselves out there. Try new things, meet new people, establish a life outside of the known. I'm cautiously optimistic that we're going to be okay. Although ask me next week once he's actually out (if he ever gets out) -and it may be a different story.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7689945

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 11:56 AM on Sunday, October 23rd, 2016

Its hard to tell with the texts really. Her phone has certainly been more visible, but then there's been times when I've noticed her send a message, then close the windows on her phone quickly as though something is being hidden. I was back at my parents last night with our boys (as they stayed the night), but trying to engage in a conversation with her over text was hard work, and it felt like I was getting in her way (its always the same on an evening!) My assumptions then kick in, and I assume she's in touch with another guy. Go back a few months when we were considering an R, she would have initiated contact on an evening first and had a good interesting and fun chat - this is what leads me to think that we are so far away from ever thinking about an R again unfortunately.

Yet, we both went out with the children to the shops yesterday and had a great few hours together. Lots of fun, but then you get back home, and it all sinks in on where we are at, I find it hugely difficult. I'm sure she does too, but I still feel that there's a lot I don't know of what she's been doing. I'd forgive her in a flash because I do feel that our marriage / or new foundation is worth fighting for, and understand why she feels the need to do it - to be valued, wanted, to feel attractive, to help her confidence and being lonely. Maybe some more honesty on her part (even if it hurts) might help.

I'm pleased you can afford to stay in the house, albeit on a bit of a budget. To have your own space is important. Being stuck with my parents is hard. I've pulled back on getting my own place to better support my BS because I didn't want her wondering what I was up to. I've been trying to be as transparent as possible with everything and its frustrating when none of that is working (maybe it is, but I've not heard it from my BS.)

I can appreciate why you think your husband could be interacting with people online. He possibly is (or isn't - the bugger of assumptions) but even if he is, I very much doubt its anything serious, so that should buy you some time to be able to move on without there be any complications of seeing someone else (although always been prepared just incase as such surprises can really hurt your mental health - it took me to the edge of a cliff and the police at the house!)

How have things been going with your husband moving out of the house? He comes across as being quite lazy from what you've described so far! I'd be wanting to just leave him to it, but then if he doesn't, it makes it harder for you to move on.

I should stick up for my BS to an extent because she can be good at communicating when asked about her feelings, but I'm just to scared to go there now as I always seem to get bad news rather than anything positive to take away, and give me hope (its easier to not bring it up if that makes sense?) Your husband sounds more challenging where you mention he just "blinks" at you - he definitely needs to start seeing an IC, and if he could get better at communicating, maybe he would open up to an R (but then it could be too late as it sounds like you are looking to move on.) I've certainly not helped with deep discussions as generally I get quite angry and frustrated, and try to hurt my BS more (as you will have noted from my earlier posts.)

Boundaries are good and its positive you are looking at these, particularly where it concerns children. I'm fairly sure my BS will respect boundaries too - she is sensible in that respect. And its positive you are starting to move on in your emotions to consider someone else in the future. This is something I struggle with.

I think you do need to get over the mindset of cancelling other plans if your husband wants to do something instead (but thats not easy!) I've done the same, and would do, certainly for the time being. I need to start thinking about hanging out less, yet I really enjoy the time with the family however its hard when I believe there is someone in her life now. Its probably easier to start getting used to just me, and to give up the fight / detach. Maybe I should consider dating, finding somewhere to live as being stuck banging against a brick wall hurts so much. At least I know that for the last 5 months I've given up any OA's, worked on me, supported my BS as much as physically possible and been a great dad. I could have easily kept down the road of an OA, disregarded the family and not recognised the pain which my BS has been feeling. The difficulty for me is that its still such early days for my BS and I don't want to just give in, but she has to respect that what she's doing is now having a "significant" impact on me and my own healing.

"I'm starting to get mad at him" - me too. I fully empathise on this point. How could she invite someone over to the house within only 7 weeks of the separation, and now having someone else too? She can see how good we are as a family and could have been so much better in a marriage if only we had been able to give it another try.

"mad because he didn't value our relationship enough to fight for it" - ditto! I've thought about this line so much over the last few days. "dissapointed because of the stupid lies" - again, ditto, I've received so many of them (especially from her parents) and I don't remember lying to my BS once over the last 5 months, even though she probably thinks otherwise. "I'd always admired his honesty and his integrity and it was one of his best qualities. Now it's gone" - the same!!

Keep yourself busy, thats whats key and it sounds like you are doing that, which isn't easy an easy task. I'm at my best when I'm kept busy, and have friends to see. I've tended to get in touch with my BS instead and ask to come see the children (7 days over the last week!), but then it only hurts me more in the end because I can see that things aren't the same. Over the next week she has a lot of family visit so I won't get many opportunities, which helps me to stop doing that.

[quoteI think both of us our going to have to exit our comfort zones and put ourselves out there. [/quote]

Definitely. I'm going to try, and going to church last week was the start of that, and I plan to go again next week. I didn't today because my mind isn't in the right place.

Stay strong - this rollercoaster ain't easy, and I don't wish it on anyone. I'm in the unfortunate position where this is the second time its happened to me (although the first I never cheated but was cheated on), and for my BS its the second time she was cheated on (so again, I sympathise what she is going through) - its an awful awful awful feeling.

Keep positing!

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7691152

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 12:13 AM on Monday, October 24th, 2016

As an add on to this, I had a long conversation with my BS tonight after looking after our children.

She revealed that those mens clothes that I found back in July (only 6-7wks after dday) are from the guy she is still dating (it was never two different guys she dated) I don't know whether that makes me feel better, or worse.

For some reason, I managed to stay relaxed and was quite calm in everything I was saying, which surprised her. I said that I understood why she felt the need to do it, and know that she wouldn't have during the marriage.

It sounds like her dad is trying to pull her away from dating, which is good as I've always thought he was quite against me. I got the impression that she wasn't proud about what she had done.

She said that the boys are her priority and still wants to make sure that we continue family days together (which unfortunately, this other guy supports!), and if she saw that this was suffering, she would end whoever.

For me though, I don't think I can continue being all happy family and friends given whats going on with the other guy. Its tough, and hurts. Maybe if she got with someone later down the line who wasn't as close to our marriage ending, that I would have thought differently.

Its not impossible that this is what was needed to help with a future R, as I do wonder how much guilt my BS was holding back and was frightened about my response. Maybe if I start pulling away, that it would pull her back. I don't know, but nonetheless its so rubbish being a MH. I asked her how many times this guy had been over to our house during the last five months and she wouldn't say, which speaks for itself.

Do I try to give myself a few months to see what happens, and be there for my xBS (incase this is a huge rebound) or do I just move on, and pull away from the family life to make her realise that this is going to be how it is from now on? I'm so mixed up, but at least I was strong enough not to reach to doing something silly.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7691482
Topic is Sleeping.
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