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Newest Member: mathemantic

I Can Relate :
Madhatters Only Thread

Topic is Sleeping.

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 12:39 PM on Wednesday, October 26th, 2016

Hopeful, I moved back over here because it seem "safer" than the general forum and people over there may not totally appreciate how horrible it is to be a MH. It's a unique place because we have all the guilt, shame, etc of being the WS and all the horrible things about being a BS. Lose-lose. And you need to stop blaming yourself and taking responsibility for everything that's happened. Trust me, my guilt and shame from my own behavior has caused me to rugsweep and minimize what my husband did. You are doing the same thing, Stop thinking that all of this is your fault. You can only control your own actions. Her reaction to your A by essentially immediately replacing you tells me she's not healing or recovering or even facing what happened. She's trying to stop the pain by diverting her attention to another man and it's not healthy and it won't last and it's not built on a good foundation. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt more than anything though.

I am so sorry about your wife. That has to be a huge blow. At least she finally told you. There has to something almost relieving about that so you don't have to keep wondering and making assumptions all the time. But it's horrible and I'm sorry.

My husband doesn't communicate well and would never tell me if he was seeing someone (even if I had proof at this point he'd probably lie about it). I'm getting mixed signals from him but that's for another thread.

I think in your case it may be time for your own good and your own healing to disengage and detach. Do you have an IC? I'm still seeing mine every other week. She's very helpful and my hour flies by. If you aren't in counseling I'd strongly recommend it. I know from my own (codependent) perspective how hard it is but I think you may want to try the 180. I may be there eventually too and this is so hard to navigate with kids. But disengage, only talk about the kids or finances, stop worrying about how she's doing (easier said than done I know). Start looking out for yourself and putting yourself first. I was a blubbering, pathetic mess after my A and my husband only started respecting me again once his A came out and I pulled myself out of my shame. The stronger you are the more she'll respect you. But definitely stop putting her first. Easier said than done I know, but look out for you.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7693585

Kristiansena ( new member #55588) posted at 3:40 PM on Thursday, November 10th, 2016

I was just told about this thread after discovering that my wife also had her own affair. I had a one time PA 13 years ago and recently an EA only with my wife's sister. I didn't want to and I tried every day to figure out why I had feelings for the sister and prayed for the feelings to go away. I begged her to tell me I was the only one, that I was imagining the feelings. She would never tell me she didn't feel the same, only that we couldn't because of the family relationships. I quit talking to the sister before anything happened and told her I would not contact her again. After I broke it off, my wife was told by her mother. I then went to work out of town for a week, then my wife had a PA with a guy she met at a bar. I am not angry with her for this and I completely accept the blame for her actions, but it does hurt like hell. Now I am just trying to love her right every day and make our lives together happy like I want. Most days are great, but she started drinking again, which I don't understand. The sex has been the best we've ever had, but what I need is her heart. I am so in love with my wife and I've seen the beautiful person I married at times, but it seems like I'm the only one trying. I know I'm being selfish, that my mistakes were much bigger and worse than hers. Is it wrong for me to want to feel like she chooses me, is it too early? This all played out 3 months ago. I just wish she would open up, get the help she needs, and quit burying herself to me and her family.

Yes - People can change!

posts: 41   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2016   ·   location: Wyoming
id 7704893

CrashingWaves ( new member #56031) posted at 8:55 PM on Tuesday, November 15th, 2016

Being the WW and doing what I did to my BS and then for it to flip and now I am also the BS and he the WH is agonizing. He doesn't want to cut off his ties with his AP saying its not anything to be worried about. It is so confusing.

[This message edited by CrashingWaves at 1:07 PM, November 17th (Thursday)]

posts: 4   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2016
id 7708098

Hopeful16 ( member #53935) posted at 9:35 PM on Sunday, November 20th, 2016


I’m very sorry to hear what you are going through and know how much this will hurt, as I speak from experience. Its good that you have broken off contact with your wifes sister first and foremost and it must be difficult for your wife/you to have been told by her mother.

It will be difficult to deal your wife then having a PA with a guy who she met at a bar and it sounds like you can understand why she did this which is a positive start because its very easy in this situation to blame the other half. I remember the day that I found mens clothes in the bedroom of my xBS only seven wks after she found out about my online affair, and I was quite simply shaking, not knowing where to turn. Unfortunately for me she is now in a relationship with his person five months on, hence why we aren’t R’ing.

The best advice I can give is to stay calm, which i sounds like you are doing. Never get angry and if you do feel like you aren’t in control of what you are saying or doing, walk away. I spent too much time trying to hurt my BS with words and it only caused us to move further apart.

Her drinking will be because she is hurting and wants to find a way of coping with that. Maybe encourage her to see an IC? Its positive though that the sex is great and you have physical contact (I rarely even got a hug), but over time if you remain committed to helping your wife, the heart should come back. Keep telling her how you feel for her. Maybe after some IC she will come around. It will unfortunately take a lot of patience and you need to remain strong, and supportive. Look after yourself too as you need your inner strength to get through all of this. And actions speak louder than words in showing your BS just how much you have changed and are prepared to work on an R.

I am hopeful that she will open up in time but it sounds like she needs to do a lot of her own healing first. Try to give her a bit more space and time, then see what happens, but keep checking in to remind her that you care and want to do what it takes to get over this. She may also be having big trust issues and if so, offer to provide access to your phone, your email. Affairs unfortunately cause paranoia and making assumptions. I made lots of incorrect assumptions in the months following dday, which greatly annoyed my xBS which I regret.

Hang in there and stay strong. I know it will hurt like hell and you will feel extremely frustrated. As you will have read on other posts, this is a rollercoaster and you’ll have your ups, and downs, and you need to be prepared for those downs.


I’m sorry too that you are going through all of this, which must feel so heart wrenching. My xBS is in a serious relationship with the AP after seven months from dday and it hurts more than anything, but I’ve now got to see past that for the future.

If you both want to get back together, your BS needs to stop contact with the AP. She has to realise the hurt and trust issues which she is causing by being in touch. I forever battled with wondering what my xBS was up to. She’d hide her phone, lie about where she was, to the point that I completely flipped. I only found out a few weeks ago regarding the truth and in a way, that made me feel slightly better.

Do you know if your BS is willing to work on an R? I’m sure that what she’s doing is just simply getting her own back and causing you hurt through this revenge act. Are you living in the same house together? I had to live in a separate house and this only enabled the RA to become more serious as the trust was shattered between us.

Try to hang in there and as per my comments to Kristian, don’t be reactive as its too easy to say things that you will later regret and will get in the way of fixing the issues.

posts: 63   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2016
id 7711363

foreverlabeled ( member #52070) posted at 4:24 AM on Wednesday, December 14th, 2016

I originally posted in the WS forum (MH help), but I am getting really close to breaking the guidelines. Not keeping with the WS perspective. I received some really great advice all around.

in case you missed it.

This is going to be very hard for me to write out. I have been avoiding calling myself a Madhatter. For one my investigation skills are not all that great and I haven't known exactly what was going on. However, with each new thing I try, I get closer to the truth.

today, my H gave me another Dday. I suppose it's more of a major TT. But I have the information to know that it was definitely an EA. But he only gives me the truth when he cannot deny hard proof. I don't have the hard proof to know if it was a PA. It looks like they did a lot of their communication through a secret email (picture swapping and who knows, he's no idiot that it would be less likely to follow a trail there). It's an email account he claims he no longer remembers the password, and when we tried to do a recovery on it, it wanted to send it to another secret email, that he could not remember the password to. I was tired of the circles we faced with that. and I admit I got a little angry and I stormed off into my new room. yep, I am now in the spare bedroom. (unrelated to this, but now I think it will be a longer stay than I thought it would)

He thinks I want him to confess to something to even the score, look, I am far enough in my healing and have been on SI long enough to be past that kind of bullshit. I just want the truth. ya know? He wants me to forgive him like he has forgiven me, to get over this. I don't know what I am forgiving to be able to do that. It's not even about the cheating at this point, I find it hard to get mad at that part, it's the lying and the defensiveness, and not acknowledging my pain and hurt on this day. Getting mad at me of all things. Minimizing the EA...and I can't talk to him about my pain without him throwing every thing I have ever done wrong in my life in my face.

And so, can anyone help me? Help me to wear my BS hat..I am starting on the 180 (wish I didn't have to go there) and over the weekend on an unrelated issue, I made IC an absolute must, and it is even more imperative now but what more do I need to do? Is there anything else I can do? How do I stand up for my pain in a situation like this. God those text messages were hard to read between the two of them. I feel like his heart no longer belongs to me. It felt like I had lost him a long time ago and I didn't know why, I do now. it was her

I feel like I have done everything in my power to help him since my Dday. And I want the same from him. How do I get him to see, can I make him get it?

I just need help on what to do here. Thanks

I flip flop between sad and hurt then to angry. I have been angry for the better part of the day.

I do have a question. are there MHs around that you were both lying, hiding, cheating, and up to no good at the same time? this is one thing I cannot get my head around, that he can be so mad and treat me so poorly, all while hiding the fact that he had a LTA. for all I know and why should I believe differently, that he could still be in his A. mind blown really.

posts: 2597   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2016   ·   location: southeast
id 7728670

tired girl ( member #28053) posted at 2:12 PM on Wednesday, December 14th, 2016

My husband and I were not doing things at the same time necessarily, as mine was a ONS. I guess you say that we were kind of, but I had moved out of the house when I had my ONS.

Right now you are going to have many conflicting emotions going through you due to your WS/BS status. If he is not going to give you information or admit that he is a WS, you are going to need to draw some firm boundaries regarding how he is behaving.

When he tries to turn the conversation back to what you did to keep the heat off of him, remind him that you are not discussing you at that moment, if he wants to discuss what you did, that can happen at another time, you are discussing what he has done. This is a fairly common problem with madhatter couples and as a couple you have to learn not to do it.

Me 47 Him 47 Hardlessons
DS 27,25,23
D Day's becoming less important as time moves on.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
My bad for trying to locate remorse on your morality map. OITNB

posts: 7444   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2010   ·   location: Inside my head
id 7728875

Isthereanyhope ( member #53948) posted at 2:06 PM on Saturday, December 17th, 2016

I had a ONS first and my ex went off the rails, immediately got online, had several inappropriate online relationships. I finally caught him having a PA. He has never once allowed me to feel the kind of pain and hurt he felt after my A. He rugswept, I was expected to get over it and he was an ultimate a$$hole. So, no, in my situation he has never acknowledged the pain and hurt he caused me. In my situation though I think he justified it by using my A as an immediate exit from the marriage. So in his mind he wasn't cheating? I have no idea. The MH component complicates matters so much.

Me- MH
Him- MH
Together 20 years (married 18)

posts: 205   ·   registered: Jul. 2nd, 2016
id 7731631

Casablanca2 ( new member #54103) posted at 1:16 AM on Saturday, January 14th, 2017

[This message edited by Casablanca2 at 8:41 PM, March 11th (Sunday)]

Me: BS; 33 Spouse: WS; 36
married 7 years
DS: 4 years old
DD: 15 months old
DDay: 5/6/16 i had just birthed our daughter 5/4 at night. Some homecoming.
2 mth EA & 2 mth PA that continued another 3 mths after DDay and thru Our 1st S.

posts: 47   ·   registered: Jul. 12th, 2016
id 7756861

Alice101 ( new member #57066) posted at 5:53 PM on Tuesday, January 24th, 2017

Hi, it's my first time posting here. I would like to share my story. So I've been with my boyfriend for 6 years. I suffer from depression and anxiety attacks. He is amazing and has put up with a lot of insecurity and breakdowns from me.

It's been 2 years since we both cheated (I cheated first). He went on vacation to visit his friends. Whenever he has gone away I have had really serious anxiety attacks about it. This is something that he hates because it makes it near impossible for him to enjoy any time he has away from me. I convince myself that he is choosing to be away from me because he doesn't love me. I struggled with thoughts in my head that he didn't miss me like I missed him because to my mind he didn't show that he missed me. I felt really far away and disconnected from him and began questioning our relationship and whether or not he loved me as much as I loved him - its something I have always been afraid of. He has never given me any reason to feel like that, he is amazing and I based it solely on the fact that its not his personality type to compliment me a lot or anything like that.

While he was on vacation, I went to a party with my friends. I got drunk and ended up sleeping with a mutual friend. I cannot explain why I did it, I cant even understand it myself. I know there's no excuse. My boyfriend was my whole world and this was the one thing that had the power to completely derail everything. I really just didn't seem to be entirely there, i felt disconnected even from myself, felt like I was in a different world and that nothing really mattered. Thinking about it now makes me feel sick, the person was nobody to me, the only thing that I liked about him was that it was clear that he liked me. It made me feel validated because he wanted me. It was selfish and disgusting and I will never forgive myself for it. I knew it would break my boyfriends heart and I do not know why I did it.

When he got back, I told him as soon as I saw him. I could see it breaking his heart and he teared up and asked me why. I broke down in tears and tried my best to explain it and to tell him that despite my unforgivable actions, I still love him with all my heart. A week later he took revenge and told me.

We decided to give it another chance. We got back togther and dated for 6 months. He told me he couldn't do it. I told him I would wait for him until he's ready. After taking 3 months of space. He texted me and told me he wanted to see me. So we got back togther. Lately things haven't been easy for me. We used to spend every night together and part of me still wants to see him as often as possible. I know I need to respect his space. I just don't know if I can do it anymore. I've been stressing and thinking about it to much.

posts: 5   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2017
id 7766166

Alice101 ( new member #57066) posted at 6:22 PM on Tuesday, January 24th, 2017

[This message edited by Alice101 at 12:24 PM, January 24th (Tuesday)]

posts: 5   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2017
id 7766194

Alice101 ( new member #57066) posted at 6:27 PM on Tuesday, January 24th, 2017

[This message edited by Alice101 at 12:28 PM, January 24th (Tuesday)]

posts: 5   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2017
id 7766202

 SI Staff (original poster moderator #10) posted at 1:04 AM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2017

Bumping for other members who can relate to reply.

posts: 10028   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 7771800

LosferWords ( member #30369) posted at 4:17 AM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2017

Hello, and welcome, Alice101.

Have you two thought about doing couples counseling? That can be very helpful in working through communication issues, intimacy issues, etc.

What helped me a lot was individual counseling (IC), to help me process my wife's affair, and to also dig deep into why I had my own (she didn't know about my affair, which happened about 15 years prior to me finding out about hers, and I subsequently confessed to my own).

In IC I was able to sort through some of my own depression and anxiety issues, in addition to figuring out why I would even dare think of having an affair. In my case, that had a lot to do with a poor self image, lack of confidence, and lack of esteem, to name a few.

What type of work have you done with your depression and anxiety?

I think if you both want to make this work, and you are both willing to work on yourselves individually and as a couple, you've got a great shot at this, as many couples here have proven. Best of luck.

posts: 31109   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2010
id 7771981

Alice101 ( new member #57066) posted at 11:28 PM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2017

Hello and thank you for replying,

I been wanting to go see a therapist but I can't afford that right now. My boyfriend doesn't want to go.

I was going to the gym for a while and I stopped going because I couldn't afford it anymore. I recently lost my job. So hopefully I can go back soon once I start working again.

I know I want to make it work. I don't know about him. Ever since we got back together, i feel like this is everything I have been wishing for but sometimes it feels like it's not what I wanted. He wants to maintain our separate lives. He only wants to see each other once a week. and I am struggling so much with being away from him. It's seems so much easier for him to stay away from me. I am beginning to feel like its hopeless... like I am holding out for something that is never going to happen. Or maybe it's just all in my head...I don't know.

posts: 5   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2017
id 7772673

LosferWords ( member #30369) posted at 2:16 PM on Wednesday, February 1st, 2017

That is a tough situation, with the uncertainty of where he stands, and with you losing your job.

I think this is definitely an prime opportunity to focus on working on you. Whether things work out with the relationship or not, you will always benefit from the work you do on yourself.

I think exercise is a great healer. I personally prefer to get out and walk/bike/hike whenever I can, as the combination of exercise, sunshine, and fresh air seems very therapeutic and helpful with depression and anxiety.

A book that I derived some helpful tools from for dealing with depression was "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David Burns. I think I found a used copy on Amazon for $2.99, or they might have it at your local library.

Other books that were helpful in dealing with the affairs were "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, and "How Can I Forgive You" by Janis Spring.

Not sure if any of this helps, but know that you have been heard, and we are here to listen and support you.

posts: 31109   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2010
id 7773110

Gixxerman ( new member #54089) posted at 1:25 PM on Tuesday, February 7th, 2017

Sorry I've edited my post. I don't feel I relate or belong to this forum. Maybe at a later time I'll come back

[This message edited by Gixxerman at 7:05 PM, February 7th (Tuesday)]

posts: 13   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2016   ·   location: Southern Hemipshere where it's hot.
id 7778775

metamorphisis ( member #12041) posted at 3:13 PM on Tuesday, February 7th, 2017


This is the second time you have posted that our staff "slapped you on the wrist". That is not the case. You were pm'd the rules of the website, and assured us you understood and thanked us for clarifying.


You're coming awfully close if not crossing our guideline on Generalizations with the alpha male stuff. Please take some time to read over the Guidelines. They can be found in the yellow box on the left side of the page.

And finally, you have been told you need to end your active affair to continue posting here. Have you done that?

Go softly my sweet friend. You will always be a part of who I am.

posts: 52157   ·   registered: Sep. 14th, 2006
id 7778891

Diffperspective ( new member #57499) posted at 5:29 AM on Monday, February 20th, 2017

Hello, I am new to this site. My H introduced me to it in hopes that it would help. I read for a few days before deciding I needed to join. I find it hard to separate my shame and disappointment for myself from my anger for him. I am not sure I should even feel pain due to the fact that my actions far out weigh his. I'm not sure what to do here. We are a little over a year after D-Day. In the beginning there was no talking about his A, only mine. I accepted that, sometimes, and attempted to keep my anger for him in check (I usually failed and we would end up fighting). Now he is open and willing to talk, but like I said I'm not sure I should feel pain, and how do I keep it seperate?

A brief history: me 3EA 1PA, him 1PA

D-Day 12/2015

posts: 20   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2017   ·   location: Oklahoma
id 7790516

Kristiansena ( new member #55588) posted at 5:50 PM on Sunday, March 5th, 2017

Ok, the problem I am having is that I don't know how to take 100% responsibility for everything that occurred in our relationship. I am willing to take as much as 90%, but I can't get to 100%. I know this is needed to help my wife heal and that is all I really want.

We stopped taking care of each other the first few years we were together. We started to build our walls to defend against any hurt. Little did we know that that same wall would keep us from loving each other properly. Little by little each day, we lost each other. Then one day my wife decides she will start going to bars with friends on a regular basis, while I stayed home with the kids. I went to work, then home and took care of the kids. After several months of this, her coming home sometimes at 8 am, I started to give up. She never cheated, so she said, but I told her that her actions were hurting me, us. Still nothing changed, she said she was done with me and probably moving out of state. So one night I started chatting online with a girl. I did this on nights she would go to the bars, while I sat home with our two babies. After a month of chatting, I met up with this girl, my wife had gone to her dad's for a few days out of state. I had a OTA with this girl that I kept secret for the next 13 years. My wife always suspected, so after a couple years of trying, she started to again going to bars. I just recently found out that during this time she had made out with a guy on one occasion, on another she had sat naked in a hot tub with another.

So during those 13 years I was completely faithful, not very loving and caring towards her still though. I felt like something was wrong, I never truly thought she loved me, even though I have loved her everyday we've been together. After the 13 years and 17 years together of not treating each other right, I started talking to her sister. It started innocently through messaging, mostly about my wife. It turned into an EA, never got physical. I wanted to leave my wife at this time, even though I still loved her.

I realized, on my own, that most of our problems were caused by my lack or caring, of loving her the way she deserves. I told her sister goodbye, that I would delete her number and not talk to her again. I did this on my own. My wife was suspecting the whole time. It wasn't until after I had ended it that her mother told her the truth.

While out of town for work, my wife had a PA with a man she met at a bar to get back at me.

We are doing pretty well now. I have changed myself, I will not be an uncaring man again. I will never allow myself to build another wall. We are on the infidelity rollercoaster but the love we feel and share has never been even close to this strong. I know I need to take full responsibility for her healing, and I do, but it's hard not to see how we both made mistakes to lead us down this road. I am doing everything needed, open, honest, loving, full of remorse and shame. My wife on the other hand is stonewalling, holding things in, she doesn't often want to talk about the painful past so she can start to heal. She bottles it all up.

So now you all know my full story. Any help would be appreciated, even a slap in the head. I sometimes feel like I'm the only one fighting for US. I know she will deal with things in her own way, in her own time, but I can't help but feel that even though we are in R, that she still is thinking about walking. Its only been 6 months and she says she just doesn't trust that I will stay the new me, that's fine, I will give her forever if needed. She does say that I am doing everything perfectly, that I am amazing now, she just doesn't trust it. Yet I don't trust that she is committed to us yet either.

If I'm being selfish, or not doing something right, please tell me. I need all the help I can get.

Yes - People can change!

posts: 41   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2016   ·   location: Wyoming
id 7801484

Saddad44 ( new member #57972) posted at 2:51 AM on Sunday, March 26th, 2017


MARCH 25, 2017 AT 9:39 PMREPLY

Profile photo of saddad44 saddad44

Long story… here goes:

Married for 10 years. Have one child (9). About 5 months ago I began to grow extremely unhappy. It seemed no matter how much I was unhappy with my wife she would never change, from her activities (stay at home mom), sex (boring and unfulfilling), and her addiction to pot (I know pot might not be addictive and I don’t have a huge issue with it, but when you smoke it all day every day… it’s a problem).

I decided enough was enough. I was sick of being the only contributor in my house. I moved out right after christmas. About 2.5 weeks after moving out I got drunk one night and had an affair. It lasted a few nights before I couldn’t handle my guilt any longer. I got all my stuff and went back to my house and confessed everything. She was rightfully angry and hurt but we agreed to move forward.

The moving forward was not easy and I struggled with my guilt and depression over the incident. I explained to her that I loved her to death, but wasn’t in love with her and wanted to find that again. It was right about this point she started to go out all night, explaining she was going to her sisters and family’s house just hanging out.

Five weeks later I got home and she had left her Facebook page up, which I discovered extremely lewd sex chat and naked pictures coupled with talk of meet ups and future plans. She was actually over there when I discovered this.

I was devastated. I waited for her for hours to come home and confronted her. She maintained her lie. Until I told her I saw and she finally angrily confessed everything. She blamed me for everything and showed no remorse. After a few hours of talking she finally broke down and was showing sadness. She was extremely nice that day and affectionate. I then caught her in a lie about the details and I got angry about that. After that, she went back into angry and lash out mode. We talked divorce, she was secretly making plans of moving in with her set her etc.

We decided to try one last time. We have so far been to one counseling session, which went okay. We have had small moments of affection and touching here and here and even had sex once. The sex seemed wrong and I feel like she was disconnected.

I take full responsibility for what I did. It was wrong. I have tried to show every effort with her, in fact she told me my affection was weird yesterday because I was being more than normal. I have been cleaning a lot, helping more, volunteering to go above and beyond for her. She has virtually done or shown nothing.

At what point do I/we give up? A true this point, I’m not sure if she’s really into it or if she’s just stalling for monetary reasons.

I am in a downward spiral and extremely depressed. I don’t know what to do or handle myself. Anytime I try to communicate any feelings I have she immediately resorts to anger and shuts down or talks about moving out.

How do I proceed?

Thanks for resign if you made it this far. Ask anything, will be completely honest.

P.s. I am looking into a personal therapist on Monday.

posts: 14   ·   registered: Mar. 24th, 2017
id 7818990
Topic is Sleeping.
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