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Wayward Side :
I have "blood on my hands"

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 4:37 PM on Tuesday, December 20th, 2022

Adulterers are scum of the earth. We are damaged, used goods, not good enough for anything.

In 12 years EVERYTHING that goes wrong IS MY FAULT BECAUSE I CHEATED.

If we are stuck in traffic - my fault. If we are late - my fault. If the dog pee - my fault. Flat tyre - wrinkles - cholesterol - yes it is all my fault.

We lost our rights as human beings because at some point in our life we made the wrong choice/s.

I am not making any excuses but fuck can I just get a break and feel like anything other than shit. But no, I am not allowed to because of what I did and now I am being selfish again. Because I do not know how my BS feels, ALL THE TIME. I am also not allowed to "get a break"

I have "blood on my hands" that will never wash off.......

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8770207
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 6:12 PM on Tuesday, December 20th, 2022

Sometimes I read posts here that remind me of a quote from the Eagles song Already Gone: "So many times it happens that we live our lives in chains, and we never even know we have the key."

No, we don't lose our rights as human beings, even if we make terrible choices. We may lose our relationship with our partners; we may lose their love and trust; we may lose our family, our friends, and our lifestyle. Those are all painful and fair consequences for our actions... but we still have power, and we still have options. We decide what we're willing to give up to make amends and to become better people. We do the work to be worthy of another chance if granted and to build a healthier future regardless of whether another chance is granted. IMO, we shouldn't sign up to live our lives as a perpetual target of derision and vitriol. In the early stages, it's understandable, but when it becomes a long term pattern, I don't believe it's healthy for either partner. When we find ourselves in that situation, though, it's still a choice. We're there because we chose to stay.

Part of the work is realizing that you are a person with both inherent value and enormous potential for improvement. You aren't going to develop that sense of self worth or live up to your potential by tolerating a life of abuse. It's why we tell BS to walk away from remorseless waywards, and it's why I tell waywards to walk away from abusive BS. It's a waste of time living that way.

WW/BW

posts: 3625   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8770215
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 7:27 PM on Tuesday, December 20th, 2022

If your BS is still in this state after 12 years, that’s on him and not you. If you have been consistent in your words and actions, then he has not healed. A BS has a responsibility to heal themselves just as a WS does. Perhaps the A was a deal breaker for him and he just likes torturing you, IDK

But at some point, I think you need to have a come to Jesus talk with him. What he is doing amounts to abuse. If things don’t change, you should seriously consider leaving.

Me -FWS

posts: 2102   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8770221
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 9:43 PM on Tuesday, December 20th, 2022

There is no Scarlet Letter and being a wayward does not come with a life sentence for you can serve.

Having an affair comes from having poor coping mechanisms, boundaries, and mental health. The time after discovery is for learning, growth, and change. It is about honesty and boundaries. It is about learning and living a healthy life.

Becoming a healthy partner does not always mean staying in your marriage. You need to evaluate this marriage and figure out why it continues to be something you want to save. This marriage in its current state is toxic and unhealthy for the both of you.

When my husband and I discussed the possibility of R we decided that the only thing that would be acceptable would be a healthy marriage. If we could not science it, we had to be willing to go our separate ways. What are you willing to accept for your marriage?

If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 16658   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Anywhere and everywhere
id 8770232
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 5:45 AM on Wednesday, December 21st, 2022

Thank you
I am still having a pity party and do not always cope well. I used this post to vent and it helped as we did not had a fight again. We are still struggling. BS ask why? Still do not understand as he would never have done it....
He told me straight that I must heal him as I did this to him.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8770273
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 5:58 AM on Wednesday, December 21st, 2022

He told me straight that I must heal him as I did this to him.

You can't.

So now what?

WW/BW

posts: 3625   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8770275
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 6:32 AM on Wednesday, December 21st, 2022

Not sure.

Take it one day at a time I guess.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8770276
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WalkinOnEggshelz ( Administrator #29447) posted at 11:46 AM on Wednesday, December 21st, 2022

It’s time to get real with yourself.

Are you willing to accept the marriage as it is? If so, why?

Sometimes in order to save a marriage if have to be willing to lose it. You don’t seem to be willing and neither does he. Again, why?

If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

posts: 16658   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2010   ·   location: Anywhere and everywhere
id 8770283
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 5:57 PM on Wednesday, December 21st, 2022

Take it one day at a time I guess.

For the next 30-40 years?

That’s a lot of days to live like this.

But if you want to waste what’s left of your one and only precious life, you have that choice.

Married -> I cheated -> We divorced -> We remarried -> Had two kids -> Now we’re miserable again

Staying together for the kids

D-day 2010

posts: 6490   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8770319
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 6:50 PM on Wednesday, December 21st, 2022

Somedays are diamonds, somedays are stones.....

Whybis it that he only remember the good times prior to the A. It is as if he can not recall one single fight. I recall more fights than good times..... maybe it is just guilt.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8770325
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 4:03 PM on Thursday, December 22nd, 2022

I'm very torn on your situation Ragab. On one hand, I'll be honest, if you guys are still this angry and torn apart 12 years out from Dday, then I'm not even sure why you are still together. Why are you still together?

Here's the thing though. I don't know you or your story, and 12 years is a long time. Lots of people here will tell you that each spouse has to heal on their own (their own effort, and time) and you can't "help" your spouse heal from the trauma any more than you can help them heal from a broken arm. That much is true. However, what is also true is that you CAN hinder their healing. To use an analogy, if someone stabs you with a knife, you can heal from that, however, the person first has to stop stabbing you. What many WS's don't seem to understand is that their own inability to own (really own, not just admit) their choices and actions, and things such as minimizing, trickle-truth and defensiveness, are all actions and responses that keep the knife in the wound. Your spouse can't heal and learn to trust and love you again when you are still hurting them, despite whatever justifications and excuses may exist. "Get over it" is not a path toward healing.

In the first few years after Dday, I felt exactly the same as you do now. I even asked those very same questions. It seemed pointless to continue in a relationship where all I could see was me losing every argument and being blamed for everything for the rest of my life. However, the truth is, that was my "shit attitude" talking. Yes, it is totally fair to not want to live such a life, and certainly, most WS's find themselves in this very position initially. There were many days that I felt that simply saying "Have a nice day!" might be met with (for example), "Don't tell me what kind of day to have! Every day is a shitty day and that's your fault!" And it sucked.

All that being said, that is not how life is today. We are just entering year 7 after Dday, and I can tell you with 100% honesty that my wife NEVER NEVER NEVER throws the affair in my face. I win and lose arguments based on the merits of that argument, not my past behavior. We make mutual decisions and those outcomes are based on both of our needs, and there are times when each of us sacrifices for the other. When she's wrong, she apologizes and makes things right. There is no scarlet letter on me. I am not a cheater, I am a person who cheated, and we see our relationship as an ongoing story, of which the infidelity was simply a chapter in that story. We are now in a new chapter.

Don't get me wrong, we discuss the affair when needed, and do so openly and calmly. The pain and the scars are still there and always will be, those things don't go away. The affair will never be "okay" and forget about "laughing about it someday". But since everything is out in the open and there is no defensiveness or attempts to gaslight and control the outcomes, it creates a safe environment that we were both able to heal in. In fact, in many ways, our relationship is much stronger. It is certainly more honest, and I feel as though we "See and hear" each other much better these days. I used to do nice things for my wife because I wanted to be special in her eyes, I needed that attention. Now, I do nice things for my wife because she deserves it, and because I want HER to feel special. I can feel special on my own, and don't need the approval and praise of others to feel good about myself. More than that, I can feel badly about my mistakes and poor choices without having to define my entire being as a "bad person". Even good people fuck up now and then. The difference is, healthy people own their fuck ups, and unhealthy people hide behind fear and anger instead.

All that being said, it sounds to me as if you still have work to do. Not on her, not on the marriage, but on yourself. You still clearly seem to define your own worth from her perspective of you. And that's not helping anyone. Do you know your "whys"? I mean really deep down, do you know why you cheated? If you answer, "because I wanted to" then you need to dig a LOT deeper. You need to decide who it is you want to be in this world, and who you DON'T want to be, and then learn to love yourself enough to go be that decent person. Once you love and respect and value your own integrity and decency and actions, then no one else can make you feel like shit about yourself, ever. If you feel like shit, it's because you failed to live up to your own high standards, not because you don't meet someone else's expectations.

I wish you the best. There is no handbook for this shit and so working through it is hard. Having people like the ones here, who have walked in your shoes and made the same mistakes, is so very helpful and valuable. Please keep coming back.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1435   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
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Bulcy ( member #74034) posted at 4:03 PM on Friday, December 23rd, 2022

In the first few years after Dday, I felt exactly the same as you do now. I even asked those very same questions. It seemed pointless to continue in a relationship where all I could see was me losing every argument and being blamed for everything for the rest of my life. However, the truth is, that was my "shit attitude" talking. Yes, it is totally fair to not want to live such a life, and certainly, most WS's find themselves in this very position initially. There were many days that I felt that simply saying "Have a nice day!" might be met with (for example), "Don't tell me what kind of day to have! Every day is a shitty day and that's your fault!" And it sucked.

THIS

I still struggle with this. I often feel victimised or attacked by BS. All I can say to you and to myself is keep working and keep reading the advise given on here.

WH (50's)

Multiple sexual, emotional and online affairs. Financial infidelity and emotional abuse. Physical abuse and intimidation.

D-days 2003, 2017, multiple d-days and TT through 2018 to 2023. 28 years of destructive and health damaging choice

posts: 366   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8770652
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 4:51 PM on Friday, December 23rd, 2022

DaddyDom, thank you. Yes I still have a long way to go. I just do not always know how.

I read in the healing library, I must apologize often. I 100% take responsibility. When I apologize, he say that sorry does not mean anything. Must say that since joining SI I learned so much about myself, and our situation and definitely what my H must be going through. But I really stuggle to execute. It just seems easier for others, but I do know it is and was not.

I had another post and the suggested books I read to BH and it is as if he just do not hear the message the explanations etc.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8770675
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doninvaun ( member #75329) posted at 8:38 PM on Monday, December 26th, 2022

...We are damaged, used goods, not good enough for anything...
...EVERYTHING that goes wrong IS MY FAULT BECAUSE I CHEATED...
...We lost our rights as human beings because at some point in our life we made the wrong choice/s.
...can I just get a break and feel like anything other than shit. But no, I am not allowed to because of what I did and now I am being selfish again. Because I do not know how my BS feels, ALL THE TIME. I am also not allowed to "get a break"

I have "blood on my hands" that will never wash off.......

I know exactly how you feel Ragab because it is exactly my situation, but not quite as long as yours, just almost 3 years since Dday.


He told me straight that I must heal him as I did this to him.


Just wondering, has your BS ever had IC or Therapy? Did he agree to reconcile?
My BS had similar response "you f****d it up, you fix it" however my BS has been adamant from day 1 that she doesn't want to reconcile, so she refused I/C because she said she doesn't want to heal, she wants to keep the pain so she can inflict it back on me as a revenge. She said WS are criminals that deserve a life sentence to get beat up every day with shaming, belittling and the worst names calling to remind them of the horrible crime they committed, having a true remorse does not mean S**T because they can't undo the damage.

I admire your patience of dealing with it for 12 years because I'm getting extremely exhausted with just almost 3 years as I feel like walking on broken glass every day and more often than not - stepping on a sharp piece that pierced right through my foot
Good luck with your journey Ragab

posts: 72   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8771010
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 4:03 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Do you stay for the abuse because you believe that someday it will change, or do you know it won't change but think you deserve permanent abuse?

WW/BW

posts: 3625   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8771047
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 9:08 AM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

doninvaun
We attempted MC and or IC, but he is not prepaired to open up and be "humiliated" infront of a stranger / strangers. He doesn't have anybody to talk to, only talk to me about it. My kids know and they just see "one of those days again"

I wonder if that is how my H feels, that he also doesn't want to heal. He tells me often it is my "jail sentence" similar to your BS, he also feels I must be "punished"
He tells me every day that he is full of hate and angry. Apparently not for me anymore but towards our situation and definatly towards the AP. As he believe life is unfair and no justice has been served. Although I take full responsibility......

I usually feel I deserve the abuse but somedays are diamonds then it is worth it. But when it is stones, it's exhausting.....

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8771063
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doninvaun ( member #75329) posted at 8:21 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Do you stay for the abuse because you believe that someday it will change, or do you know it won't change but think you deserve permanent abuse?


I keep hoping she will eventually change even though I know she won't, not without counselling/therapy. The other reason is also because I feel responsible for all pain I caused by BS so I endure the abuse hoping to make her feel better, but deep down I know it would help her much without professional help. I doubt if any couple can really reconcile without counselling/therapy and a lot of hard work (from both side, not just WS doing all the work), case in point OP's case after 12 years.

posts: 72   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8771119
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 10:11 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

I suppose there are some people who consider it justice for a WS to suffer permanently. After all, the BS did not choose to be betrayed, while the WS chose to cheat. The WS has a responsibility to do their part: go NC, answer questions honestly, dig for their whys to become a safer partner, and overall face up to the damage they've done. It's almost guaranteed to be rough for longer than the WS imagined possible. However, there is a tipping point. When a BS chooses to fully reject measures that might help them heal and to substitute continuous vitriol as a coping mechanism, then the WS has to choose whether their continued participation in the marriage is healthy for anyone.

I've read comments from many experienced BS that as much as it sucks (and it does), and as unfair as it may be (and it is), the BS is ultimately saddled with the responsibility for their own recovery. At a certain point, even the most remorseful WS has done everything they can do. It's even possible that the departure of the WS is the only thing that will make healing possible for the BS. I wouldn't take delivery on that explanation from a recent WS, but at your stage, I think that accepting abuse becomes a form of codependent enabling.

WW/BW

posts: 3625   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
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Copec ( new member #79885) posted at 8:48 PM on Wednesday, January 4th, 2023

I relate to all of this. It’s so hard. I’ve grown so much and learned so much about myself it’s incredible. With that said, I can’t help but feel that I am marked forever. And that my transgressions can never and should never be forgiven. So I continue to accept that when things go wrong, I am to blame because my husband wouldn’t act that way if I haven’t betrayed him. Part of me know that’s not true because he had issues with anger and control before DDay for our whole marriage, but I can’t help but feel responsible. My affair was so bad and so long. And I didn’t want it, but couldn’t break free and had so much healing to do to figure out why I started it and continued. It’s disgusting.

Every day I wish I could take it back. My husband struggles, refuses to talk to anyone about it and has stopped talking to me about how he is feeling despite me continuously asking how he is coping. He treats me like it’s a bizarre question if I ask him if he’s doing ok, his response is "what do you mean, how do I even answer that, what are you taking about" when I’m simply asking him how he is doing.

He had an affair with 2 people when he was deployed and continued for a year after until he asked me about me and my AP and I came clean. In many ways, we have grown and learned so much, but we are in a tough spot. When he gets like that, everything is my fault and his affairs were justified because he knew something was going on even though he never addressed it or asked me before he got deployed. I ruined our marriage and I agree. But his hurt is so deep he can’t even look at himself and consider that there may be issues and things he needs to work on.

Right now I am trying to focus on continued growth and healing in myself and mastering supporting him regardless of how I am feeling. I can’t heal him. He needs to want that for himself. And often times I wonder if I should just let go because I am not worthy to be in a relationship. What kind of person does that to someone else that they love. After lots of digging I know my why’s but he still can’t understand that they had nothing to do with him. It was all my brokenness. Not being able to deal with conflict in our marriage, not loving myself, being emotionally neglected as a child. And on and on.

Anyway, not sure of where I was going with this but I feel the pain of being marked, and not being enough. Even though I know I’m enough. Hard to move forward and make progress and then be knocked down because of the reality of my actions. Not quite 100% there of loving myself no matter what. And not listening to others voices like my husbands. But his voice holds truth and I can’t deny it. What kind of woman does that to her husband?

[This message edited by Copec at 9:48 PM, Wednesday, January 4th]

WS/mad hatter-2+ years post DDay.

posts: 35   ·   registered: Feb. 4th, 2022
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 6:17 AM on Thursday, January 5th, 2023

HI Copec

Not so sure if I am able to give you any constructive advice. All I can say is just keep on checking in on SI, again take what you can out of it as sometimes when I read here it feels like there is no hope for me, but then other times I just wish I knew about this site a long time ago.
Just try and work on yourself (I am preaching more to myself) because if you are not worthy then why should your H feel worthy? One member gave me some "good" advice that seems to be working and that is "sex him up". For 12 years I am trying to tell him that it had nothing to do with him not satisfying me and he just doesn't believe me, so my showing him seems to be working most of the time.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8772151
Topic is Sleeping.
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