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Newest Member: Time2go

Just Found Out :

Topic is Sleeping.

 Twinmom878 (original poster new member #81150) posted at 8:40 PM on Sunday, October 16th, 2022

Well he cheated on me. Caught him looking for family pictures in his phone. He saw her for two years (found out 2 years September 2020 from phone records) he tried to lie and say since March at first.
We have twin girls that are six just started kindergarten and having to work together to take and pick them up from school. We are together still. In therapy individually and couples once a week. We go to church on Sunday now. He listens to self awareness book the four agreements and tried to journal a few pages. He’s showing effort.
I’m still stuck on how could he love me? How can he want me. He cheated on me for past two years. While at his work on breaks he would meet her for sex or blowjobs and he messaged her at least weekly. He looked at me like I didn’t want him (maybe internally making excuses for what he was doing). He had her on his Facebook as a friend and she knew about me. She liked our kids cancer treatment checkups. She’s less attractive than me and overweight and red headed. 4 years younger with three kids of her own and a fiancé at the start of their fling (they broke it off February 2022, I know because I contacted her ex fiancé), who had cheated on her and didn’t have proof she had cheated.
It’s a mess. Before all this we didn’t argue. I thought he was gaining weight stressed from working and would come home and fall asleep a lot. We had sex at least weekly. Never denied him sex. I cleaned the house everyday and he never helped me with any of it. When I found out and confronted him he told me I don’t have to pick his clothes up off the floor anymore that he will do it. He would say i look like a bitch sometimes or that I need to not talk to him that way before when I was frustrated about stuff. He didn’t appreciate me or respect me. He is very selfish and impulsive with spending money on things we don’t need to not budgeting. He says he was miserable with himself. And I thought everything was good about us before and I never saw any of that. We enjoyed doing family stuff with kids and he was home every night. I never suspected anything.
Im so confused on why he did this and therapist said I should not keep asking why because only leads me to more whys. Im hurt and I can’t really keep talking to him about what he did because he feels shame and guilt and gets upset when I do try to except in therapy. He acts like im keeping us from moving forward and that I’m trying to make him suffer. But im hurting over it all, humiliated still, and I feel like bad that he chose her over me. Like maybe he was infatuated with her and not me. Im questioning myself why is he with me? Why not go be with her? I don’t understand what im here with him for when I didn’t fully infatuate and satisfy him.
And im facing that rejection of maybe he wanted her more than me. And it negates our first sex together. Our romance in the beginning of our relationship seems like it was overshadowed by this new sexual experience he got with her for two years. I’ve had shorter relationships with ex bfs than his affair with her!
And he doesn’t want to leave me. He wants it to work and says he loves me and I’m his partner and he wants to marry me and wants to be a family man and a husband and be a better man for us and he was stupid and doesn’t know why he did it. He says he wants help with being impulsive. Today we went to church and he gave them $60. Like we really don’t have the money to be giving away $60 each time we go to church. But I feel like he does it for his pride or ego or impulsiveness. Like give them $5 it’s not a competition or for show. He said that is how much he should give. Like little stuff is still there. When we go out to eat and he is critical of the food or the person that washed his car didn’t do a good job. Instead of showing gratitude. I tell him these things and he acts like I’m just picking out all his flaws now and tells me to just make up my mind and end it if that’s what I want. And it is because I’m mad and angry and hurt and it isn’t because I love him too. And I’m stuck. I know I deserve someone who wouldn’t have done any of this to me for two years. I just am confused and hurt and idk what to do. One minute I forgive him and next minute I wonder how could he have done this to me.

posts: 17   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2022   ·   location: Kentucky
id 8759865

ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 9:28 PM on Sunday, October 16th, 2022

I'll be honest with you, the kneejerk reaction most people have to being cheated on is "how can I fix this?". Oftentimes, our first impulse is to somehow repair the status quo and keep what we thought we had. The fly in the ointment though is that we can't "fix" other people. Your WP (wayward partner) is the only person who can "fix" his broken character. The bullshit blameshifting of "you look like a bitch sometimes" or "he doesn't like the way you talk to him" is his way of taking the focus off his utter lack of integrity and obvious entitlement.

So, it doesn't really matter what he wants. You have to do you, right? You can't control him, you can't fix him, and it completely up to you if you want to spin your wheels waiting form him to maybe get his shit together someday. No cheater is owed a second chance. I know you've got children and that means you're stuck having some kind of involvement with this guy, but that doesn't mean you have to stay with him and it sure as heck doesn't mean you have to marry him. He has shown you what he's capable of and until he's made real and lasting changes, he is who he is. There IS a path untaken for every one you choose, and who knows?.. that path might have a wonderful partner down it who would NEVER think of cheating on you. You don't know.

Im so confused on why he did this and therapist said I should not keep asking why because only leads me to more whys.

It sounds to me like he's got a shitty therapist. Isn't the point of being there to find out why he acts like he does? If that's not the point, what the hell is???

You know, if he can't answer the question of why on the first day, that's not unusual. Sometimes it takes time for a WS to figure out his real motivation and he needs to dig deeper than his first rationalizations. That said, if the IC thinks the reason why he did this isn't important, that's bullshit. If there's no reason why he'd betray you... he betrayed you for no reason. Who would want to be with someone who is that capable of casual betrayal???

I think it's okay for you to slow down and take your time assessing whether or not this guy is capable of remediating his poor character. You don't have to dump him today if you don't want to, but by equal measure, you don't have to commit to more of his bullshit either. ACTIONS are what you want. Crocodile tears and snot-bubbled promises to change are NOT change. Change is change. And it takes time to observe it.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7012   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8759872

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 12:24 AM on Monday, October 17th, 2022

I’m sorry to read your young children have cancer check ups. That just breaks my heart. I hope they have continued good health.

About the cheater. It is possible the affair was about escape for him b/c he could be with the OW w/out having to think of you & kids & bills & money & life. He escaped to a fantasy where he was so wonderful in the eyes of the cheater.

Why did he cheat? The only answer is because he wanted to. Everything else is just an excuse or justification. He didn’t cheat because you are too thin or can’t cook or like peanut butter ice cream or because you spent too much time with your kids.

All of those reasons are excuses.

He cheated because he wanted to. That is the answer. Sometimes it’s the drama or the fantasy or the need to be "needed" by the OW. But that just is something that propels the affair to continue. The cheaters both get some emotional attention or some kind of "high" from the affair.

I hope this helps you. It also doesn’t matter what HE wants— it’s now time for you to decide what you want.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13848   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8759883

Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 6:09 AM on Monday, October 17th, 2022

Forgive me for being blunt.

He wants it to work and says he loves me and I’m his partner and he wants to marry me and wants to be a family man and a husband and be a better man for us...

Funny how his actions don't really match his words.

Im so confused on why he did this and therapist said I should not keep asking why because only leads me to more whys.

Sh*tty advice from a therapist telling you to stop asking why. Basically telling you to rugsweep. Please find a new one.

Im hurt and I can’t really keep talking to him about what he did because he feels shame and guilt and gets upset when I do try to except in therapy.

Good. He should. He needs to f*cking face that his actions aren't just gonna go away just because he's supposedly no longer cheating and you decided to stay.

He says he was miserable with himself.

he was stupid and doesn’t know why he did it.

If he doesn't know why he did this, how can you expect him not to do it again?

So he was just "stupid" for 2 years? That's his main reason? He was miserable with himself but chose to take it out on you? For 2 years?

I tell him these things and he acts like I’m just picking out all his flaws now and tells me to just make up my mind and end it if that’s what I want.

Gotta say, his current attitude is not conducive for reconciliation. If he refuses to take accountability and reflect on himself, then there's no way he can truly be an authentic partner like he claims to want to be. And basically there's no telling what he'll do the next time he's "miserable with himself." He has a sh*t ton of work to do. Time for you to start taking care of yourself and your kids for now.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 6:12 AM, Monday, October 17th]

posts: 549   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8759905

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 12:36 PM on Monday, October 17th, 2022

You cannot reconcile with someone who plays victim.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13848   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8759919

HardKnocks ( member #70957) posted at 3:12 PM on Monday, October 17th, 2022

Please consider a new therapist.

This one doesn't have what it takes.


posts: 547   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2019
id 8759933

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:52 PM on Monday, October 17th, 2022

Do his reasons for cheating matter? Are there any reasons that would alleviate your pain? Is knowing why he cheated going to make him want to change?

What gave me hope for R was that my W worked on changing herself from someone who cheated to someone who would be a good partner. I could see, hear, and feel her change, albeit very slowly. And I thought - correctly, so far - that I'd want to spend the rest of my life with her if she did change.

What do you want? You're not married now. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with him as he is now? What changes does he want to make? Are those changes that will help you?

Do you stifle yourself? Will you have to keep stifling yourself to stay with him?

R is not the only good outcome after an A. Sometimes D is better. Sometimes staying together is harmful to one or both partners and to kids.

I don't know the answers to my questions (though I think you probably do stifle yourself). I ask them so that you ask and answer them for yourself - and you are under no obligation to answer them publicly.

But be honest with yourself - that's the best way to survive and thrive after being betrayed.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29778   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8759945

 Twinmom878 (original poster new member #81150) posted at 8:42 PM on Tuesday, October 18th, 2022

Well today I decided to message a friend of the affair partner that I previously messaged. Story is this: I found the messages between the AP and him and it had her name (the friends name in it). So I had messaged the friend three months ago when I found out and asked her if she knew anything about him and her and the affair. So she said she and her husband honor their vows and she was not friends with her any longer. So today I thought what the hell I’ll message her on fb and see if she ever heard from her again and if there was anything she learned from her if she did. She said no and I said okay thank you for your response I just thought I’d ask. And that was it.
So later the WP calls me and said that her and her husband called him at work to tell him to tell me to stop harassing his wife! I was like I was not harassing anyone I just messaged her that and that was that. Well the WP then had the audacity to tell me how I shouldn’t be doing that and why am I trying to dig up more stuff and I should be moving on and not keeping it going! Like I said fine then I’m done. I’m sick of it all. I’m sick of feeling like the victim. The naive fool. I’m sick of playing this role he put me in. Trying to make me seem crazy for harassing someone for asking if they know anything that’s it.
I told him I need time to myself. Time to heal my heart and mind and to stop thinking about the affair.

posts: 17   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2022   ·   location: Kentucky
id 8760157

Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 8:48 PM on Tuesday, October 18th, 2022

From now on, no more contact with AP. That’s how they make you look like the crazy one. And obviously WP is protecting her. Hard 180 and consult some attorneys to see what a divorce would look like.

Sorry to be harsh, but it looks like your WP is not on your side right now. The audacity to tell you to "move on" like it’s so easy. He’s full of it.

posts: 549   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8760158

 Twinmom878 (original poster new member #81150) posted at 9:00 PM on Tuesday, October 18th, 2022

Oh and tomorrow I go for my individual therapy and we are suppose to do couples therapy tomorrow right after that. I told him I want to continue doing the therapy together because even if it doesn’t work out (which I’m thinking I’m not ever going to be able to get over his two year fling (3 years she was with her fiancé almost married /2 of those years cheating with my partner)) well even if it doesn’t work we have to be able to communicate and get along for the kids. We never fought before this and I’m very submissive and avoid confrontation and fighting and he is dominant. But we never got married. His ex wife and him divorced when his other set of twins he had with her (we have all girls) were about same age as the ones we have together. So I feel like this is a pattern for him. And he acted like he just despised his ex wife when we met and talked bad about her and I still to this day have never met her. But I would tell him that’s the mother of your kids and she deserves respect and you need to get over that hate towards her (even before we had kids together). I am afraid that when we separate he will be the same way towards me and it’s not fair. I never did anything but love him and was never a bitch to him or anything. I cleaned I slept with him I loved on him everything. And I don’t want our kids to deal with that mom and dad hate thing that I saw the older twins experience and tried to minimize it as much as I could.
Yea looking back I prob should have saw the red flag of how he acted towards his ex but I thought maybe she was evil and all. His mom and grandma would say she was too and that she was just a terrible person that would try to ruin you.
It’s just so much negativity and I didn’t do anything to receive any of this in my life. I clean the house, I help pay bills working nights two or three nights a week, I don’t give him a hard way to go nagging. I don’t know how I got myself in this mess. Three months ago if you asked me about him or our relationship I would have said it was wonderful no problems at all only need more date nights together free of kids.

posts: 17   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2022   ·   location: Kentucky
id 8760163

ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 9:51 PM on Tuesday, October 18th, 2022

sorry in advance to be short... hand injury. it sounds like this guy is just steamrolling right over you. you say that you're a passive person and he knows that about you. he's taking advantage of it. think about it... if he had just caught you in an affair for two years, he would understand perfectly why you're looking for more information. empathy is nothing but walking a mile in someone else's shoes. it's not a monumental stretch.

as far as this business of being cooperative with him so that he doesn't treat you like his ex-wife.. there's literally no reason for you to believe he will treat you better. his bullying tells you that he's not remorseful. he's not learning, not building good character, not changing. so he's still the same guy who's shitty to his ex-wife and will treat you just the same if you step out of line. when you change nothing, nothing changes.

be true to your own needs. that's my advice. walking on eggshells will only get you more of the same and the same has not been good.


BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7012   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8760172

fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 10:08 PM on Tuesday, October 18th, 2022

You absolutely do not deserve all of this negativity and bullying treatment. Always value yourself. You should be mad angry and hurt. Standing up for yourself and demanding to be treated with respect, does not condemn the children to live in hate. If he is not remorseful and willing to change,he deserves indifference, not hate. You are a good and faithful partner who deserves a loving partner. Do not sell yourself short. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3873   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8760173

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 12:58 AM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

Do you see a pattern here?

His XW was to blame. Hmmmm…. Wonder if that is true!

You are not to blame for his cheating. He is. And only he is.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:18 PM, Wednesday, October 19th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13848   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8760193

Aletheia ( member #79172) posted at 1:41 AM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

Men have gotten away with the "crazy ex" scheme for so long, it's only been a recent push by women to realize, if your new boyfriend's exes were ALL crazy, look at the common denominator. Women oftentimes see it far too late, when they're then the ones being labeled as the "crazy ex" and they realize either 1. it's a complete utter lie or 2. he's the reason the ex went crazy lol. Don't beat yourself up about it.

I don’t know how I got myself in this mess.

You gave your love and trust to someone who you didn't know was unworthy. You simply didn't know who he really was. And if you read the accounts of cheaters, they tell betrayed spouses not to blame themselves for not seeing it, cheaters go to great lengths to hide their betrayal and deception. When you get caught up in your thoughts and start to think "how didn't I see it??" it's a simple answer to remind yourself because you weren't supposed to.

You're also blaming yourself for him taking advantage of your or for him cheating on you. It is not your fault. It doesn't matter how pretty you are, how smart, how funny, how thin, how short, how tall, how well you cook, how amazing the sex is, how many gifts you buy, how much patience you give them, etc. if you find yourself in a relationship with a person who has it in them to violate you, it doesn't matter how great of a person you are, they will do what's in their nature. Forgive yourself for decisions that you made when you didn't have all the facts.

posts: 317   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2021
id 8760196

 Twinmom878 (original poster new member #81150) posted at 3:49 PM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

Here is a message he sent me yesterday:

Why did I cheat on someone I deeply love and care for.
My escape from reality. Not you or my relationship. I did it because I chose to do it. I convinced myself that I could and it wouldn’t hurt anyone. She didn’t know the real me or any of my flaws because I didn’t trust or care or Love her that way. She doesn’t know me and I don’t know her. It made the act of being spontaneous seem exciting and different. It wasn’t fulfilling, but it did feel like a conquest of I’ve still got it. It wasn’t about her looks or even being attracted to her it was about the act not the individual. So there truly was no love or desire for her, just a desire to be flawless and have another person seem infatuated with me. My self-esteem has been essentially non existent for a long time. (Nothing to do with you or what you did or didn’t do). It’s my lack of ability to handle myself accordingly and to not fall back into that feeling of self loathing. My love, wants and desires for you are met with strong emotions and very strong feelings. Yes I got caught and yes that brought all of the feelings of remorse, disappointment, guilt and sadness to the forefront of everything in my life. I am bearing this cross (as I should be) all while trying to figure out how to repair myself and I pray our relationship. Yes, I want to move forward because I’m afraid of losing you and our family. This is our home and our life. All of our future that I know can be great again in both of our eyes. An understanding of everything that I have to be grateful for and an understanding that even some of the wealthiest men in the world will never have what I did. What I took for granted in you our children this house this life. It’s exactly like the death of someone you care about. You would give anything to have one more day with them so you could show and tell them what you meant to them. The time you could have and should have made for them instead of wasting it on something or someone else. God, I AM SORRY I DIDN’T GIVE THAT TIME TO YOU!
I love you because you love me unconditionally. The way that you used to trust in me for everything. That I had the answers but in reality you’re smarter than I am.
The way you nestled up next to me and tried to push yourself as close as you possibly could leaving me two inches of bed to sleep on. I swear to god and anyone else listening to me pray for the chance to spend the rest of my life on those two inches I’ll never take it for granted again. When you used to ask me when I was going to be home simply because you looked forward to me being home. I love you for you despite your flaws because even with them you’re perfect enough. All I truly deeply want from the bottom of my heart is to spend the rest of my life with the women I truly love and raise our family in a loving home and to continue to work on myself to be a better husband (I would marry you tomorrow if you would let me) and father to my kids. I know who I want to be and I am working on this guy to build that man. I won’t stop until I believe I have found myself. Your willingness to try to find forgiveness and ability to hurt and still try to help is unlike anything I have ever felt or experienced before. I will not take you for granted ever again, even if I can’t make things right again. I know you’re trying. I am in my own way which clearly is not the right way. This letter will hopefully show you in a different way that I do care and that I do love you with all of my heart and that I want to put this awful part of my past in the rear view mirror and move forward, better and stronger together. I Love You baby.

posts: 17   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2022   ·   location: Kentucky
id 8760249

 Twinmom878 (original poster new member #81150) posted at 3:55 PM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

We go to couples counseling today. He wrote this one too:

You don’t deserve to go down this hole with me. You deserve so much more. I wanted to be more but I am who I am. A disappointment. A letdown, a cheater. A dirty lying cheating piece of shit. I never intended to hurt you especially not this bad. Just know that I know who I am and I know what you deserve. I don’t want your or anyone to pity me. I am who I am. A full fledged loser. A child’s brain inside a fat fucking piece of shit man’s body. I pretended to try to be a good dad. My kids are smarter than I am. I never deserved you. I never will. I lied to myself. If you would’ve given me a second chance I would’ve just found a way to fuck it all up again. I’m a coward. Scared lonely miserable excuse of a man. You don’t deserve to spend your beautiful life and beautiful heart trying to fix me. I’m unable to be fixed. I’m too selfish to except that. Selfish miserable excuse of a father and partner. I really am sorry for not being considerate of you and our kids. None of you did anything to deserve having your future and security, your life torn in a million pieces. All the things that a man would’ve thought about to begin with. Fuck !! Stupid FUCK! Nothing more!!! A FAT STUPID INCONSIDERATE SELFISH PIECEOF SHIT!

posts: 17   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2022   ·   location: Kentucky
id 8760250

HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:03 PM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

He's telling you who he is. Believe him.

You have nothing to work with here.


[This message edited by HellFire at 5:04 PM, Wednesday, October 19th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6624   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8760254

Shockedmom ( member #44708) posted at 5:11 PM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

Well, he is a mess. First an apology and a claim to repair the damage he caused you and the family and then he basically says there is no way through this…perhaps this was an exit affair and he is trying to mitigate his catastrophic life choices.

Please find an individual therapist to help you navigate this terrible journey. The head games are incredible.

posts: 1094   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2014   ·   location: Hawaii
id 8760256

Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 5:16 PM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

Well he’s really good at throwing himself a pity party, I’ll give him that.

At this point, I agree that maybe you should take MC off the table and go into IC.

posts: 549   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8760259

NowWhat106 ( member #35497) posted at 9:53 PM on Wednesday, October 19th, 2022

I’m so sorry. That letter is, as noted, a HUGE pity and shame party that is all about him. And it’s meant to trigger your soothing and comforting button. That will not help him or you to actually face what he needs to address. You can’t fix yourself while you’re busy being a complete victim—even if you’re a victim of your own messed up self as he claims. When he said he can’t be fixed and he’s too selfish for that, he means to evoke sympathy, but he is also telling a weird kind of truth. Any WH (and I include mine in this) that claims he is beyond fixing truly is because they are already convinced it’s impossible. And, as he also said, he’s a coward. This is also true of many WH. They’re too cowardly to try to fix the monstrous brokenness of themselves. Ultimately, he has told you who he is, and he’s already let you know that he will be to weak to try to change.

He is hoping that you will suck it up and try to fix it for him. That isn’t possible.

Gently, look at what he says he loves about you. It’s all about what he gets from you. Please know that I don’t say that to hurt you. I had to face the same thing. To my WH, I was not an actual person with independent feelings and needs and goals. I was a resource to make him feel better or to fill some need in his life. Ultimately, I was no more or less than his AP, and the reason that he sought her out was that I wasn’t propping his bad behavior the way I had before we had kids that needed him to fix his fuckedupedness. It really sucks to realize that you aren’t loved for all of the many amazing things that you are. Please know that he’s just likely not capable of understanding that kind of love at all because he’s all about himself—as he said, he’s just too selfish for that.

Him WS
LTEA with old HS GF from 25+ years ago
DD #1: 10/6/2011
DD #2: 10/21/2011
2DS under18
My marriage didn’t survive but I did

posts: 589   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2012
id 8760289
Topic is Sleeping.
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