Newest Member: zurichtime

Just Found Out :
Advice on helping my children

Topic is Sleeping.
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Lalagirl ( member #14576) posted at 11:10 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

And some shit from her therapist about not properly mourning the end of that relationship due to how fast it ramped up and ended.

RELATIONSHIP? Aw HELL no! It was an AFFAIR!

OMG, sometimes therapists are friggin' useless.

Me-56 FWH-58 Married 37 years 9/2/2021 grown daughters-37 & 34 11yo GS,8yo GD&6yo. GD (DD37) and 9yo GD & 4yo GD(DD34). D-day #1 - 1/06; D-day #2 - 3/07 Reconciled! Construction Complete. Astra inclinant, sed non obligant

posts: 8634   ·   registered: May. 10th, 2007
id 8592297
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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 11:11 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

Based on the past 24 hour I have decided to stop updating here. Anymore news probably needs to be under the Divorce/Separation forum. Does this thread get moved? Do you just start a new one over there when I feel a need to update?

This thread stays here. You need to start a new one in whatever other section of the site you feel you need when you are ready.

I’ll summarize the email I guess. After she left work early the day I got arrested, a female coworker came by to check on her. She told this person what had happened. The whole story. One thing led to another and the girl offered her phone to my STBXW to call him after she (STBXW) expressed concern about the AP physically. He was all lovey and heartbroken and called her the “love of his life” (sound familiar) and he was begging her to run away with him. She told him she was confused and she could not do that right now, In her words, she was an “emotional blob not thinking right”. They hung up eventually and the coworker agreed to keep it quiet.

Trust me your wife has left a lot out of that conversation. Possibly even the words "I love you".

The next day she claims she came to her senses and reaches out to marriage counseling services at our church. It's considered a meg-church and has professional counseling available. Later in the week she goes to them and tells them everything that happened except not about the phone call. They tell her the usual which includes no contact with AP and that breaking that contact post D-Day could cause any attempt to reconcile to fail. She’s in panic mode about the call and decides not to tell anyone about it. The week after I return home, while she is at work the coworker tells her that AP is blowing up her phone and she needs to talk to him. She claims she does it to make him stop trying to get in contact with her. Unfortunately, to her surprise he is pissed. I had sent his wife screenshots of the Facebook messages and blown up his world without warning my STBX. So he’s upset, yelling and crying about his marriage and me beating him up and all he did was “fall in love with a woman he can never go near again”. She hangs up and never speaks or sees him again until that Saturday night at the party.

For years your wife has maintained contact with an affair-enabler AND lied to your face day after day, in therapy, etc.

Even with his being mad at her, she still doesn't realize that this all she is is a piece of ass to this sleazebag.

And some shit from her therapist about not properly mourning the end of that relationship due to how fast it ramped up and ended.

Yet another shitty therapist who creates justifications for disloyal cheater and liars.

And guilt associated with not telling me or her therapist about the two phone calls.

Just not enough guilt to tell the truth. If there is one thing cheaters ain't, it is courageous.

The resentment toward me she understood and tried to explain. She felt that we had reached a plateau that we were not progressing in our reconciling over the last year. That I was not fully committed and she admits that she was frustrated and angry about that. She KNEW she wanted us to work out and grow old together but I was still distant in some ways. She wanted to have that talk with me for over a month and kept putting it off and then the party happened. She feels it was just an unfortunate chain of events that came together and exploded. And to her point she had sent me a text asking about us setting some time aside to discuss our marriage. I have the text. But we never got around to it.

Please SeeYaIamOut, understand your responsibility in this not working out while your wife lies to your face and is possibly secretly pining for another man.

Why didn't YOU try harder?

Anyway, my reply was simply, “You lied for three years. How do I know you're not lying now?”

Her reply was, “That’s the problem I found myself in when you came back home. If I told you the truth how could I prove it was only phone calls. I could only do then what I am doing now. Tell you and pray you believe me because I have no proof. But emotions were so raw and I knew how bad I had messed up. I did not think we could take another blow to our marriage and survive. I’m sorry I kept this from you then. But that is the truth. All of it.”

And this sums up the insane feedback loop of cheater-think: I wanted to tell you the truth, but I didn't, because you wouldn't believe me. So I had to lie. Over and over again. But now! This time! I am telling the whole truth.

So that’s it. Divorce is still on the table. Way on the table. But now that all the emotions have begun to clear, I am not as angry and more open to seeing this from her perspective. An actual physical separation for a period of time will definitely take place.

I'll be perfectly frank. Your wife is a mess. Take cheating out of it. Her mind seems to be...warped, honestly.

Now put cheating back into it. Do you want to be with someone who is this much of a mental mess? Who can lie to you straight in your face for years on end? Who you simply can't trust, from an honesty, loyalty, and frankly, a pure "judgement" perspective?

What does that do to your soul and self-worth going forward? Is this woman worth it to you?

posts: 875   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8592298
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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 11:14 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

I see nothing that fits the category of "Just Found Out" coming my way.

Ask her a bunch of air-tight questions and follow that up with a polygraph.

You'll probably find out other stuff.

Such is the way of the liar.

posts: 875   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8592300
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 11:41 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

RELATIONSHIP? Aw HELL no! It was an AFFAIR!

Yeah I noticed that.

Trust me your wife has left a lot out of that conversation. Possibly even the words "I love you".

I know those words had been spoken. I read the messages. Whether or not she said them this time does not matter.

For years your wife has maintained contact with an affair-enabler AND lied to your face day after day, in therapy, etc.

Just to clarify she left that job and to my knowledge has not spoken to that person since leaving after she turned in her notice. God, I feel like I'm defending her...which she did a week after D-Day on her own accord based on the info she got from the marriage counselor. Just providing some clarification. Other than that....yeah.

I'll be perfectly frank. Your wife is a mess. Take cheating out of it. Her mind seems to be...warped, honestly.

Now put cheating back into it. Do you want to be with someone who is this much of a mental mess? Who can lie to you straight in your face for years on end? Who you simply can't trust, from an honesty, loyalty, and frankly, a pure "judgement" perspective?

What does that do to your soul and self-worth going forward? Is this woman worth it to you?

I know my worth. It is not tied to her. To be honest, I am not 100% sure I was not headed toward halting reconciling before this. She has a point. I was not 100 percent committed to the marriage anymore. Now, is that because I was settling or because I really could not get past the cheating? I think the separation will sort that out.

I don't believe her mind is "warped". I think she truly made systematic bad decisions based on selfish behavior and got caught up in a fantasy and was not prepared for the resulting reality....Pisses me off but I really believe that at this point.

Ask her a bunch of air-tight questions and follow that up with a polygraph.

You'll probably find out other stuff.

Such is the way of the liar.

I get your point but I'm sure I have all the information I need to make my decision. I just want space to ...confirm my decision.

posts: 59   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8592305
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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 12:40 AM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

SeeYa, I tend to have a harsh take on the behaviors of cheaters. The reason is because in real life the hurt and damage that is inflicted upon the betrayed spouse and children if there are any, is so harsh and brutal.

Please believe me, I am not trying to hammer you or berate you. I think your eyes are more wide open than most betrayed spouses, but I also see that sliver of doubt in your resolve that can end up costing you more years of your life.

I get your point but I'm sure I have all the information I need to make my decision. I just want space to ...confirm my decision.

I totally agree with you. You don't need more information. There is more. There is always more. And you know more than most betrayed spouses ever get to know. You know what you need to.

I don't believe her mind is "warped". I think she truly made systematic bad decisions based on selfish behavior and got caught up in a fantasy and was not prepared for the resulting reality....Pisses me off but I really believe that at this point.

I don't think she is "hallucinating rainbow unicorns" warped, but warped in the sense of being able to make things okay in one's own mind: "it is okay for me, because reasons".

I don't think that way of thinking, the ability to make things that would never be okay for you, okay for her, goes away in most cases.

And then they find out that it is not okay, and they come up with more reasons to do further messed up stuff. Like "I lied because you wouldn't believe me".

In any case, I have probably belabored the point, my apologies to you and my thoughts are with you and your family.

posts: 875   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8592319
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 1:59 AM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

Fair call brother.

I don’t feel a polygraph is required as you have made the call to pull the pin on the D grenade.

Just be there for the children, encourage them to maintain a good relationship with their mother regardless of what the past is. Keep your anger at bay, you are doing everything you can.

One day at a time and good luck for the future.

Buffer

posts: 1201   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8592338
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 2:10 AM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

She has a point. I was not 100 percent committed to the marriage anymore. Now, is that because I was settling or because I really could not get past the cheating? I think the separation will sort that out.

Or was it because your gut was telling you one thing (like there is much more and she's lying) but your head and heart was over riding it. I ask this because that was me.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4675   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8592343
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 2:13 AM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

SeeYa, I tend to have a harsh take on the behaviors of cheaters. The reason is because in real life the hurt and damage that is inflicted upon the betrayed spouse and children if there are any, is so harsh and brutal.

Please believe me, I am not trying to hammer you or berate you. I think your eyes are more wide open than most betrayed spouses, but I also see that sliver of doubt in your resolve that can end up costing you more years of your life.

I get your point but I'm sure I have all the information I need to make my decision. I just want space to ...confirm my decision.

I totally agree with you. You don't need more information. There is more. There is always more. And you know more than most betrayed spouses ever get to know. You know what you need to.

I don't believe her mind is "warped". I think she truly made systematic bad decisions based on selfish behavior and got caught up in a fantasy and was not prepared for the resulting reality....Pisses me off but I really believe that at this point.

I don't think she is "hallucinating rainbow unicorns" warped, but warped in the sense of being able to make things okay in one's own mind: "it is okay for me, because reasons".

I don't think that way of thinking, the ability to make things that would never be okay for you, okay for her, goes away in most cases.

And then they find out that it is not okay, and they come up with more reasons to do further messed up stuff. Like "I lied because you wouldn't believe me".

In any case, I have probably belabored the point, my apologies to you and my thoughts are with you and your family.

I understand completely Faithfulman. And I am grateful for your insight through this. Please don't stop giving it.

I think the sliver of doubt you see is me being cautious to a fault. I see cheaters much the same way as you described but with the added view that they leap before they think. I guess I am making sure that I am looking hard at things and can honestly say I am doing what I know needs to be done before I leap.

posts: 59   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8592345
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 SeeYaIamOut (original poster member #75524) posted at 2:57 AM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

Or was it because your gut was telling you one thing (like there is much more and she's lying) but your head and heart was over riding it. I ask this because that was me.

That's likely what was going on. I'm hoping to figure that out over the next few months.

posts: 59   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2020
id 8592358
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Sadwife53 ( member #61415) posted at 4:05 AM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

I’ll share my take for what it’s worth.

I don’t defend cheaters. I feel

they know exactly what they are doing and the consequences of their actions when they make their choices. Most of my posts are harsh and judgmental toward waywards.

But humans are complex. We all have sub personalities often conflicting. (if you’re interested check out internal family systems therapy on YouTube). Part of me loves my husband deeply and wants to take care of him, another part hates him for how he betrayed me and wants nothing to do with him. I believe we all have parts of us that are “good’ and parts that are “bad”, selfish, immature, and foolish, seeking short term gain over what’s best for ourselves long term.

My husband is a recovering alcoholic in AA. He tells me drinking brings out the self pitying victim mentality almost universally among alcoholics, a part of them for sure, but not the best most loving kind or understanding part. Certainly not what I would say the total most real or most true part.

I recall about 1.5 years after dday I went to a wedding with my husband and got drunk quickly on an empty stomach. I became emotional and made him leave early and then became enraged and verbally abusive the whole ride home. And I felt completely in the right while abusing him. Yes, a part of me was being honest about my feelings, but it wasn’t the “real” me, just a not so evolved self pitying part of me.

That episode allowed me to better understand my WH when he was drunk daily during the A. In his alcohol soaked mind, he was the victim, full of self pity. He convinced himself he was completely justified in his behavior, just as I had when I abused him while drunk.

I don’t mean to make excuses for your wife or encourage you to give her another chance. I’m just pointing out an alternative way to view the situation. Even if you don’t buy it, it might be worth sharing with your children so they’ll only hate a part of your wife, not all of her.

[This message edited by Sadwife53 at 10:15 PM, September 28th (Monday)]

Me: 54
WH: 57
married 31 years, 4 adult children
dday: 10/5/17 EA and PA with a 30yo
Struggling at R

posts: 91   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2017   ·   location: Western PA
id 8592372
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 5:41 AM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

Sorry if you mentioned this but I missed it ... but did you ever tell your wife, “You’ll now have the opportunity to be with the Love Of Your Life, and he with his. You’ll get to be together. That should make you happy?”

If you Did, what was her response. If you haven’t, would it be worth saying to her?

Thanks

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3200   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8592397
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 1:39 PM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

IMO, your wife not only resents you but her failure to react negatively to the OM (e.g., disgust, anger) is evidence that her 'why' behind the affair and her related sense of entitlement was never identified/fixed.

1 - Her IC made an interesting observation. Unfortunately, after 3 years, it's also evidence that she still has feelings for the OM (and preserved/remembers their affair as a romance between star crossed lovers).

More likely it has nothing to do with the OM but rather she misses the high that his attention/wild declarations of love made her feel. Something that a spouse can never (and should not have to) compete with.

In any event, it's wayward thinking and a game that a spouse can't win. Plus your quaranteed 'failure' reinforces her resentment.

2- IMO the growing distance between you two and your concerns about R was your 6th sense detecting she was still comparing being married to the high of an affair - and that she was with you because family & social conventions require her to.

posts: 2420   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8592425
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SlapNutsABingo ( member #71353) posted at 4:06 PM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

You have to give it to her for honesty now at least..., but admitting she was still attracted to him coupled with "I can't believe you forced me to give up the love of my life. The only man that made me feel special. You beat him up and now he won't ever come near me."...and this being said in a state with inhibitions removed, "sigh"....

Wishing you everything...

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 1:10 PM, September 29th (Tuesday)]

posts: 383   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: WI
id 8592476
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ramius ( member #44750) posted at 4:59 PM on Tuesday, September 29th, 2020

So it appears that when she was drunk, she was not in some altered state saying things that she didn’t really mean.

In this case it would seem that she said exactly what she felt and exactly what she meant.

Carrying a torch for her lover for the last three years, and all it took was a quick look and boom, the floodgates opened.

Imaging if he had been able to contact her on the down low. Fed her those pretty words again. Seems like she would be right back into it.

See you over on the Divorce thread.

[This message edited by ramius at 4:22 PM, September 29th (Tuesday)]

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1608   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8592497
Topic is Sleeping.
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