SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you all for your concern. My W left this morning with kids to give me some space. I am not sure how I feel about the results. Relief and a bit of anger for puting us in a position where I feel the need to subject my wife, the person I should trust the most, to a polygraph. I want to have a calm day today to sort my thoughts on this, something I probably won't accomplish in a day or two.

W offered a second poly if I am not satisfied with this one but I don't think I will take it. The result are very clear on the sex part, which is part I was bothered by the most. I just need to do some thinking about future and possible outcomes of this mess. We have kids to think about. Not saying I will take her back or anything, but this is no place for a rush decision now that I am pretty sure I have a clear picture, barren of her lies and deceit.

On the inconclusive answers - the readings were apparently a little off on 2 out of three iterations so they could't tell with a level a certainity that she's beeing truthful. Hence inconclusive.

You might remember her admiting sending him a selfies in her underwear, but I am pretty sure she sent him more revealing pictures. My biggest concern on this is that I don't want them to end up on the internet for a whole world to see. I have no doubt the creep would do that, either out of spite or as a trophy to share. She destroyed the burner phone and all the photos with it so it's impossible to do a reverse search. I asked her if she had her face in those pics and she said "in a few, yeah" so.. I bet he has many of them and it makes me sick.

I might share the question, but not today. I also worry a lot might get lost in a translation.

I don't understand the reasoning behind that 50 pages limit, but I will open a new thread when this one is done. Thank you for bringing that to my attention Stevesn.

Trust your gut.....

You might remember her admiting sending him a selfies in her underwear, but I am pretty sure she sent him more revealing pictures. My biggest concern on this is that I don't want them to end up on the internet for a whole world to see. I have no doubt the creep would do that, either out of spite or as a trophy to share. She destroyed the burner phone and all the photos with it so it's impossible to do a reverse search. I asked her if she had her face in those pics and she said "in a few, yeah" so.. I bet he has many of them and it makes me sick.

She says underwear.....you suspect more revealing.

She say her face was in a few pics......you suspect many.

Interesting how the one subject she was inconclusive on, is the one that the burner phone (that she destroyed) would have the answer to.

Sounds to me like she has, and still is, lying about (or as cheaters say....minimizing) what she sent the guy.

Take some time to clear your head. At least the polygraph was mostly good news. It seems that you need to decide what you're willing to accept and what caused her dissatisfaction in the marriage that allowed her to get into such a compromising position. The answer will manifest itself. I'm so sorry you're in this position.

Mr Flibble, let's clarify up front that you don't need to find out what caused her dissatisfaction in your marriage. She cheated on you 7 years ago, and then when she got the chance again she started cheating on you once again. These are the incidents that you know of at least.

The problem is with Mrs. Flibble and her need for attention from men not named "Mr. Flibble", and her need for attention overall.

The problem is her character. Not "the marriage". Not you.

The other problem is that she is - and I hate to say this - kind of a loose woman. Her moral and sexual boundaries are shitty for someone who has committed to being faithful. And they were probably shitty before that.

***

WHAT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED:

1) Your wife has had at least 2 illicit relationships behind your back. You don't know if there were more attempts, fizzle-outs, etc.

2) She has gone to great lengths to pursue at least one of those relationships, they lasted for a good while, and they included deliberate deception (meaning she knew damn well how wrong it was), including burner phones and other methods of evasion.

3) She does not appear to want to change her behavior, only to get away with it. She can and will lie straight to your face with no problem, and has done it FOR YEARS. She lied to both of her therapists. She only will tell you the truth under extreme pressure.

4) Her relationship with SH - even if the did not "have sex" - was sexual: Kissing is sexual, groping and letting him fiddle with her and her the doing same to him is sexual, sending photos with her body exposed is sexual, and their conversations were sexual.

***

Forget the polygraph for a moment. Knowing all that, can you commit to spending your life with Mrs. Flibble and not always being "on guard" or simply thinking about the abuse she heaped upon you?

- Will you ever feel safe that she hasn't got some new plot going and now she is much better at it? Trust her out of your sight?

- Will you ever feel confident about your past with her?

- Will you love her the same way or even close to it?

- Will you feel confident about her true love for you? Her respect for you?

That's what you have to think over...

***

POLYGRAPH

I am generally a proponent of polygraphs. I have never seen one like this, and frankly, it has bothered me since you mentioned the test parameters, and I and other made that clear.

Here is what has bugged me about this whole process:

- On page 36, you mentioned that the test is 5 - 10 questions. As I said back then, I have never heard of a consumer polygraph over 4 questions, and usually they want a limit of 3 question or fewer.

- The whole Xanax bit. It just makes me feel like she was doing whatever she could to "beat the test", and there could be more that she tried to throw off the results. By the way, did she take the blood test?

- I think she arranged the polygraph, correct? Anything she touches worries me.

Having said that, as I stated back then, and many times since, what is really important about polygraphs is what they force out of a cheater before the test. And what you learned of before this test was very revealing: She had another inappropriate affair, was lying about it to your face, and planned to continue to keep it from you forever.

If it were me, I would lean toward taking another test just as she offered. But you should set it up, don't tell her anything about your plans, and you should spring it on her so she is not "prepared".

However, if that is just too much stress I completely understand.

***

I have to ask about this:

On the inconclusive answers - the readings were apparently a little off on 2 out of three iterations so they could't tell with a level a certainity that she's beeing truthful. Hence inconclusive.

Was it just one answer that was inconclusive? Or more than one?

Did the polygraph administrators give a degree of certainty or any other information about how she fared, their methodology, etc.?

***

Anyway, still a shit show. I am happy (kind of) that she didn't fuck the guy (it seems) but she went pretty goddamn far.

If I were to sum up what I know of Mrs. Flibble, it would go like this:

- She doesn't respect her vows or her husband.

- She is very willing to compromise herself for attention. Her boundary is apparently everything short of letting some dude put his dick in her.

- She is reckless and willing to risk her families' health to satisfy her need for attention - the latest affair happened during the Covid pandemic.

- She is a liar.

I'll let you fill in the positives.

***

I know my posts can be harsh. I am sorry, but I don't like to sugarcoat things.

That way when you (or I) make a decision, we make it based on reality, not fuzzy thinking.

Good luck, and I hope to hear your thoughts.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 9:28 AM, April 25th (Sunday)]

"What caused her dissatisfaction in the marriage that allowed her to get into such a compromising position"???

Give me a break...her low morals got her into this position and because she just wanted to.

She's done it twice (that he knows about).

If she's so dissatisfied, there's the door, LEAVE!!! But she isn't wanting to do that is she.

What caused her dissatisfaction in the marriage

It's his fault she cheated?

You're actually blaming the victim here on this website forum?

Do you see how damaging that can be?

The man came here for help and you are blaming him for his responsibility in his own hurt...stop for a moment and think hard about how sick and twisted that is.

Dissatisfaction had nothing to do with this. Anyone that followed Mr. Fibble's story would know this. An excessive need for external validation was already identified in IC. My guess likely tied to stbx's relationship with Mr. F's MIL. The $1000 question is whether that's fixable in Mrs. F.. and whether Mr. Fibble is willing or able to move past what stbxww actions have done to him and his family.

As for the poly results I originally thought they were in increasing order of her failing though 4 NC &5 pix were close. I'm not sure of the timing of the NC message and when SH's true nature was revealed to Mrs. F. In light of the burner phone I figured that there may have been other contact. The explicit pix question I thought was ambiguous in english, but figured it was less so in their native language.

I don't think Xanax was an issue. It would have thrown all the questions into inconclusive not just the one if she was lying across the board. Getting the questions ahead of time seems to be 50/50 around infidelity. When the test subject does know them usually it's a subset of the known pool of them like Mr.F stated. The number of questions were high, but it sounds like all were asked three times. The limit is normally for time constraints for length of the session. Any idea if there were 10 control questions (5 true & 5 false) being mixed in with the 5 actual?

It is a very rare duck indeed that does not have some level of dissatisfaction in their M. It is normal. Natural. Reasonable. Because people are people and no one can provide another with all that is great and expected. Of course marriages will have some level of dissatisfaction in both parties.

Dissatisfaction in an M has nothing to do with what is required to cheat. Everyone has reasons for doing almost anything. The issue is with those who have no boundaries between what they would like to do and what they then choose to do.

This has nothing to do with being dissatisfied in some way. It has everything to do with being comfortable with betrayal, deception, manipulation, and disassociation with empathy and loyalty. Nothing at all to do with marital dissatisfaction.

Faithfulman summed it up nicely.

The only thing I'd like to ad is Polygraphs are very easy to beat. I have had some experience in this area and have seen it happen. Mr F's wife knew what type of questions would be asked in the poly and she could prepare for them. She had plenty of time.

Good luck to you Mr.F. I've been where you are and I hope everything works for the best.

Hi OP. With the inconclusive result to one question, and as faithfulman pointed out, because she arranged for the first test, I can see the argument for another test.

One problem with another test is what happens if she fails several questions she passed the first time, then where are you? She lying or truthful on test 1 or 2?

I asked my wife to take a polygraph test 'luckily' she passed. Once trust is broken it's such a bastard to get back. Our marriage is better but old memories of her shady behaviour percolate and sometimes resurface. And if I'm honest I have some doubt about the accuracy of the test, I don't think they're infallible. Still, it helped our marriage that she took it, but not a 100% fix.

My advice I think is to focus on faithfulman's post 'What we have established'. If those are the facts, that's some nasty shit for a wife to do to her marriage and her husband. That's going to take some forgiveness for you to reconcile. Not easy.

Then of course if you do reconcile, were these her last rodeos, or is there more to come say two years from now.

For the sake of your marriage and kids, maybe worth that leap of faith. Tough one, good luck man.

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 8:33 PM, April 25th (Sunday)]

WHAT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED:

1) Your wife has had at least 2 illicit relationships behind your back. You don't know if there were more attempts, fizzle-outs, etc.

2) She has gone to great lengths to pursue at least one of those relationships, they lasted for a good while, and they included deliberate deception (meaning she knew damn well how wrong it was), including burner phones and other methods of evasion.

3) She does not appear to want to change her behavior, only to get away with it. She can and will lie straight to your face with no problem, and has done it FOR YEARS. She lied to both of her therapists. She only will tell you the truth under extreme pressure.

4) Her relationship with SH - even if the did not "have sex" - was sexual: Kissing is sexual, groping and letting him fiddle with her and her the doing same to him is sexual, sending photos with her body exposed is sexual, and their conversations were sexual.

Well at least the polygraph is done.

Buffer

A second polygraph, WHY? To what end?

Until March 5th, your WW was the example of a R wayward, since she’s proven to be a run-of-the-mill non-remorseful liar just waiting on the next former AP. Before the first episode of TT you were decisive and moving forward through this mess, I even went back and read your LS thread and you handled this as best as anyone could, considering. But since March 5th, well that seemed to sit you back on your heels, UNDERSTANDABLY.

Honestly, at this point, I don’t think you have much to work with, as Ramius just pointed out. Sorry!

[This message edited by DeWittle at 8:40 PM, April 25th (Sunday)]

Dear Mr. Fibble,

I’ve followed your thread, but stayed out of it. It’s certainly been heartbreaking to watch.

I’m a lawyer by training. It lends itself to thinking rationally and you are already in a situation where you have your head on rationally. You have legal advice and have started the divorce ball rolling quickly.

Oftentimes, we look at these online forums for advice when we don’t know what we actually want during a time of upheaval in our lives.

Some of us are finding out that our life partners are serial cheaters. Some of us are finding out that our partners have engaged in monstrous feats of cruelty. We are all hurt here. And we all see each other in the stories told here. We all extrapolate the advice we want to give ourselves and then give that advice to another person.

There is no “one size fits all” answer to this question.

The question – the only question – is what do YOU want this to look like… possibly forever?

I think you may be searching for a middle ground – an island of refuge – where you can catch your breath.

May I propose a middle ground, if possible in your jurisdiction? Please discuss with your attorney a post nuptial agreement rather than a full divorce. Or possibly shifting the divorce to a separation. In other words, give yourself more time to figure out what you want to do here, while still legally protecting the settlement you’ve secured.

If I am reading this correctly, then I think I can see where you are coming from. There’s a part of you that wants to save this marriage, and a part of you that wants to let it go. That’s fair in this situation – people have gotten divorced for less and people have reconciled with worse.

When you’re on that fence, I don’t believe you want – in your heart – to make the decision just yet. But, the divorce is rolling and about to be final.

My story isn’t unique here, but it’s pretty bad. Found out my exww had two LTAs spanning years. You know what I wanted to do? Reconcile. It took me a year to see my exww had emotionally checked out of the marriage. You want to know the final straw? Her refusing to take a polygraph test (plus continued contact with the last dude). Still thought of keeping the marriage even after that but ultimately didn’t want to live in an environment where I felt something for a person who no longer cared about me. It had become toxic and it was hurting both of us. So, I divorced.

It took me six months to see my exww didn’t love me anymore. It took me another few months to pluck up the courage to file, and it took me months to get a divorce. During that time, she was still “in love” with the last guy. When it was all said and done, the whole process took a year.

I’d love to say it was a simple decision, but it wasn’t.

You have something to work with here, and I don’t say that lightly. I am not sticking up for your WW. Yes, what she was doing was wrong. Yes, she screwed up in a monumental way. She might also see this now. This may be a dealbreaker for you too. I don’t know. What I do know is that you ww went to a strange person, got a bunch of wires attached to her, and let this person ask her questions about a possible affair. This takes something out of a person and she did it to try and save the marriage. I often think that SI may look at a polygraph as a given, but that takes a huge amount of courage to do. If you put yourself in her shoes for that one, then I think it’s clear you have something to work with, if you want to work with it.

If you want to have a preview of the other side of divorce I can PM it to you with my experiences. Doubtless, you’re already out there taking a look and you already see how easy it would be to replace your WW. Now that you know you can, do you want to?

I would say that so long as you can secure your assets and won’t get killed in a divorce by waiting… I would say to allow yourself some time to make a decision… at least a little more time.

This may be the softer side of me, but I want you to avoid a fate that sometimes happens – regret. If you’re letting your ww go, then the one thing that you should be comfortable with is that you will have regrets. You’ll wake up in the night when she has the kids and wonder why the house is so still. There will be holidays and time schedules. There are weddings of your children and you’ll be expected to attend while she is there. There are college graduations and grandkids.

This is a very permanent decision to divorce. You should be comfortable with it. Right now, you’re probably coming to the end of your shock phase and you’re about two weeks off the divorce being finalized.

No matter what the decision – R or D – the one thing you should be is comfortable with it. Maybe, as I parse through your posts, I think it’s just now that you’ve gotten the truth. You’re just now able to process it.

Then there’s the issue of wounded pride – something has to right the scales of this wrong, right? Not really. That’s more of a pipe dream.

So, here’s my two cents. I’d discuss with your attorney something that will secure your assets and the settlement agreement that’s in place. If you can do that, then I would give yourself more time to determine if a divorce is really what you want. SI’s goal should be about being comfortable making the best decision for YOU in a very trying time. Finding what that decision is takes time. I worry this is moving too fast to process what you want so far.

I do apologize if I overstepped here by saying this, having never weighed in on this thread before. I hope you forgive me if this comes off as too soft. I mean it with the upmost respect.

We can say that she successfully passed the Poly test. The inconclusive deemed question was even not necessary. IMO sending explicit photos is less important than PA. I would have wondered about this, but if I knew more was done, I wouldn't use my question right by asking it. And we knew that the A has been physical to some extent.

I wonder if the questions were changed? Because if there is no loss in translation, even if some of these questions are answered correctly, they cannot be fully satisfactory.

For instance, "Was this her first affair during the relationship?"

Obviously, the last confession was to get past this question. If the question was changed and asked for the first A, answering "yes" to the question does not mean that there is no A other than these two A's. So the question should have asked like: "During your relationship with your husband, have you ever had any A with others except the A's you have already admitted, that he doesn't know?"

Were the questions asked to answer what happened in the first A as well? I guess you considered such things but I felt the need to ask just in case.

Most important of all, there were things that were not asked like if she is hiding anything else important from you, how were her feelings about you and her APs during the A's and how are they now, etc.

Since I don't know whether this type of questions are suitable for the polygraph test technique, I reserve my words.

Coming to the current situation, now it is up to you. We mostly tried to explain that you need to know the whole truth before making a decision.

Depending on the extent to which the evidence is concrete or not, I always speak of strong and weak possibilities. I still can't say 100% definitely but with strong possibility now it seems that you basically know what you need to know.

As you finally learned from the polygraph test, you are not indebted to your W for not having sexual intercourse with anyone else. But you also don't owe anything to those who want to make a decision about your life on their computers without knowing you and your family. Don't feel any pressure on you as it will disappoint someone. It's about what you want and what you can live with.

If you open a new thread, I will continue to follow. I will draw attention to the points in the way of thinking that I think you missed, but I won't get involved in what decision you should make.

Good luck to you.

@Waggingthedog makes some very cogent observations, and his point of view comes from personal experience and is very reasonable. You should definitely take what he wrote into consideration.

At this point, I think you have to just think about if you want to proceed with the plan you've had from the beginning. You're probably just as confused as ever, so think it over.

I would bet you don't know all the truth, and maybe not even some major stuff, but you more or less know what you're dealing with: A completely untrustworthy and disloyal wife who you love dearly, and a family you adore more than life itself, vs. the logic of not investing any more of your life into someone who has betrayed you terribly without any sign of concern for you.

Work from the truth.

Not just information you have dragged out of her, but YOUR TRUTH. Of what you can or can't live with or recover from.

My point of view is you should stick to your plan. You seem like a man who knows his mind, even when he is confused, if that makes sense.

Pressure reveals character and I think there are more shoes to drop before May 4th.

Good luck.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 12:05 AM, April 26th (Monday)]

Thank you all so much, especially to you Waggingthedog. I have read your post six times already.

It's a lot to take in, I have not made a decision yet but I contacted a lawyer about a process of postponing the divorce hearing. I am not saying that's what I want to do, but I want to know what it takes. W came back last night with kids, we stayed up until 2 am talking. I lost some of my composure last night and it became very emotional and I guess you can guess the rest.

I also got a new job offer. The pay is great, the project sounds amazing, but it would require relocating to the US for 12-18 months so it's a no go I am afraid. Maybe in a next life, who knows.

I created a new thread in general if you are willing to continout with your support

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=653403