SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi A1

For me, it is a bit daunting posting so soon after a post by Bigger.

As I mentioned in my post a page or 2 back. I don’t regard myself as experienced or learned enough to offer advice. All I can do is share my experience and hope that there are bits of it that can either be valuable to you or supportive.

It has been suggested that some of my experience of having a WW who had a meltdown after I told her of my decision to D, might be of some use to you.

Unfortunately, I have a far too close an experience of the “ultimate solution” to the pain in one’s life. I have the experience from both being in the role of perpetrator as well then the traumatised family member looking on.

I know that the act of suicide in incredibly selfish. I wrote that admission in the hand-written notes that I had left to my kids. I also wrote that, as selfish as it is, there is something even more selfish than suicide, and that ultimate selfish act, has been perpetrated on both you and I. Our WWs have seen to it that we have had a taste of both, even if the one was just a glimpse into the hell.

Those who have gotten to know me, know that my core programming is to care, get involved, help out the vulnerable, whoever they are and however they are brought into my life. I had to realise that no matter how concerned or hurt or how deeply this cries out to the good men in us, it was, at its core, an attempt to again take back the control over our relationship and its future. She knew me so well. Better than I knew myself in so many ways, and she knew just how hard it would be for me not to say, come back into my life, I would rather live in the hell that I have been living for the past year, than to have your death on my conscience. Just falling back into the roles that I now see were there for our entire marriage.

Having been the one on the other side first I also see other elements to the motivation. I never saw it at the time. Hell, you have to be in so much pain when you see your death as the only solution to it, that it is impossible to discern any rational thoughts. But I was under the care of a psychiatrist for 6 months and a psychologist for much longer. They both put it to me that one of my motivations was to punish my wife. They said that I saw her as having inflicted a hurt so severe, that I knew nothing she did, could ever even come close to repairing that hurt. Part of my motivation was to sentence her to a life sentence of hell, just as she had me. I refused to admit this, either to them or myself, but when WW had her meltdown, I could see it so clearly as at least a part of her motivation and then I recognised it as a big part of mine.

When WW’s meltdown drew me very close to thinking that the only way to avoid being given that life sentence, was to give her what she wanted, and allow her back into my life, my subconscious hit me with the heaviest 2X4 that I have ever been hit with. It forced me to look at what my life would be into the future under that scenario. I saw a waisted and paranoid man. One that was not only playing policeman on his wife to make sure she was not cheating, but having to do the same to make sure that she was not going to take her life. I would have been nothing other than a slave, chained by my very own humanity, love and caring core.

I did not deserve to have to live my life out like that. But that did not change who I am right to my very core. Having been on the other side of the attempt, I knew that one can never know how serious the threat is. I needed to believe that her meltdown was a very real risk, and I needed to act on that belief without being drawn into it.

From my experience of being on the other side, I also knew that, once you are that deep in that hole, the only way out of it is with the very best, specific professional help. What I did was make sure that my wife was not only given access to such help, I made sure that she had the support structure that would ensure that she would use it. I made and paid for IC sessions with the professional that had helped me through. On my initiative, I made sure that she had the support of her closest friends on a 24 hour, daily basis. I was then drawn in by the EPA practitioner at her place of work and was able to empower them to treat and monitor as well. All of this was the best I could have done, had I been her concerned an caring husband, it was just that I could do it all, without having to sentence myself to that lifetime of hell.

The psychiatrist under whose care I was, after getting to know my personality, having seen the evidence and the meticulous planning and based on the chosen method, is certain that I would have been successful in my quest, if not for the external intervention. He shared with me a little on how the chosen method is used to better understand the motivation of the patient and whether it was a cry for help, or seen as the only way to end the unbearable pain. With this knowledge, and several of WWs actions subsequently, it has become clear to me that ending her life was never her objective. It was all part of her carefully crafted and executed plan to use the character traits of mine, that she knew so well, to achieve her goal of getting me back into her life, and getting her control over me and the family back.

Even knowing this, I could never have taken a chance of testing to see if this was her truth. Either then or now, so I worked out a way to keep being just who I am, while freeing myself from a life sentence in hell.

I hope that at least some of this is of use to you.

[This message edited by ohforanewme at 7:14 AM, February 15th (Thursday)]

A1, maybe I've missed something, but are her parents still alive? If so, donthey know what's going on? Does she have any other kind of support system besides the one sister? Any other family or close friends that can help out?

I understand that this woman is reaping exactly what she has sewn. Yes, I'm sure part of her is sad because her ride down easy street has come to an end. Her status in her community, in her church, had been forever altered. People will always think of her with a little asterisk next to her name. Her entire life as she has known it for 30 years has come to a screeching halt. She seems like a woman whose entire (post A) life was taking care of her family. Now she has lost everything that matters to her. Her reasons for living are now gone, at least in her mind. Her friends and family need to help her see that her life will still have value post D.

I think it should be stressed to her that after 18 years of lying, she can now finally be free from the lies. She can start a whole new life with no secrets. I'm sure she lived in fear of being caught every single day. She no longer has to expel that energy into worrying about it, and trying to make up fonit.

I agree with Fenderguy. Those are interesting points that have not been brought up or rarely brought up

Sorrowful Moon wasn’t addressing A1. They were addressing the person they quoted (I think longsadstory).

Absolutely. No way was I criticising A1. Not sure how you read it that way Western.

I will have to do better in my composition...

no problem. I sometimes am misunderstood too. Please keep your posting's going. You do well, Sorrowful

I visited WW at her sister’s house today. She is now under the care of a psychiatrist who has started her on an antidepressant which she definitely seems to need.

We talked for several hours. I have never seen her this way. Sad, but with a profound sense of hopelessness. The separation and DDs reaction were understandably

hard on her, but it was the sudden feeling of finality when she signed the paperwork at the lawyer’s office that pushed her over the edge.

I am still very worried about her after our conversation. Several of you suggested she might try to kill herself again and I agree. I discussed this with her sister who shares my fears.

Unfortunately, her parents are deceased, so no support there. I told her the girls need to know about what happened, but she doesn’t want to upset them. I argued the point and said I would give her a few days to think about how she wants to explain things to them. I would help if she wanted me to. I hope DDs will soften towards her and provide some much needed support.

Many folks have said they don’t recommend introducing waywards to this site for a variety of (excellent) reasons. That being said, I think my WW needs help seeing that she is not alone and that things do (eventually) get better for many people in our situation. So I showed her SI. I recommended that she avoid my thread (I think much of the commentary in these 50 pages would hurt her much more than it would help). But I did suggest visiting the Wayward side and the separation forum.

Speaking of the length of this thread, I received a PM saying that threads can’t exceed 50 pages. The member suggested that I start a new thread. I am not sure that is a good idea...this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own. I hate to think that I am distracting folks from new posters in JFO who are suffering at the beginning of this horrible journey. Perhaps it would be better for me to move on to the separation/divorce forum?

I thank all of you who have supported me through this process. Without your collective help, I am sure my experience would have been far worse than it was.

I say just start a second thread here called "Dazed & Confused pt 2".

Hi A1

A number of recent posters have chosen route of, "Dazed & Confused pt 2".

If you choose instead to move across to D/S, you will find a warm welcome from the most amazing band if brothers I have ever encounter in my life, and a whole bunch of soul beautiful, supportive women.

A1, I am in total agreement with ohfors post.

The feelings of utter hopelessness and depression can be overwhelming. WS or BS can often be affected by thoughts of getting rid of the pain by suicide.

My friend, a BW, took her life one week after discovery. She didn't confide in anyone - I wish she had, she was a wonderful person.

Ohfor, I believe, was completely right. Continue with the divorce, but try to get others to help your WW, be that professional help, family and friends. Get them to help her navigate a future path in her life.

so sad to hear about your WW. As you move forward, allow yourself the opportunity, if you are able, to help her in her healing as well. I have seen where BS's have been more intent in the hurting of their WS, to right the ledger so to speak. Unfortunately it seems to play a toll on their ability to move forward and finding true happiness after. They become embittered. Wise Karma is always beneficial.

The divorce/separation thread is a great place to post, given that you seem to be moving on from this marriage.

And Yes. Given her current state she should avoid your thread.

Many posters, me included, made some strong comments and observations about your WW early on. Even though many of the points offered were accurate, sometimes they were a bit harsh. The focus was on supporting you, not her.

As you are well aware your wife is very fragile. So if she starts a thread in the Wayward section, IMO, please impress upon her to use the Stop Sign.

I hope your daughters will see their way to helping her through this tough time. They can still be pissed at her. And they have every right. But maybe they could hit the pause button on their anger and reach out to mom.

You have handled yourself with class and compassion. Hold you head up.

Have you seen the reception Mrs. Walloped has gotten in the Wayward forum?

There are several experienced and good posters – WS and BS - helping her along. But there are dozens of BS still reeling from their personal pain that are posting really harmful and spiteful things on her thread. Questions, statements and allegations that have no purpose other than hurt.

I think Mrs. W has the strength to handle it, but she has had considerably more time for her personal recovery than the ex Mrs. AO. I don’t think your ex-wife has that strength.

Fellow BS: The Wayward forum is possibly the most sensitive, delicate and brave forum here on SI. It’s not the place to vent at the courageous WS that post there. Please – if you can’t leave your tar, feather and pitchfork at the gate then PLEASE don’t post there!

AO

From day one I have suggested that you have two paths out of infidelity. I have to admit that I had this tingly-feeling you weren’t ready for divorce, but were probably headed there. My emphasis has been on deciding a course and then committing to it. You can always switch – you can always try reconciliation and then realize it’s not for you and switch to divorce. You can always try divorce and then realize it’s not for you. BUT… what you can’t do is reconcile while acting divorced, or divorce but act married.

It’s this finality of the eventual chosen path that I place emphasis on.

If you are divorcing your wife then you need to realize that there are new borders and roles. Divorce is not an alternative form of marriage.

Once again AO – use time.

You can always try divorce and then realize it’s not for you. BUT… what you can’t do is reconcile while acting divorced, or divorce but act married.

It’s this finality of the eventual chosen path that I place emphasis on.

If you are divorcing your wife then you need to realize that there are new borders and roles. Divorce is not an alternative form of marriage.

I do agree with this, BUT....

In no way do I know AO's future intentions/interests, but for the sake of discussion, let's say that AO and Mrs. exAO start becoming exclusive again. Wouldn't this be one of the 'safest' ways to restart? Financials are separated; the infidelity is 'forgiven' as it is from a 'prior' relationship. It would be as clean of a slate as possible. And either person could walk away from this new relationship without complicated ties.

I know, I know....they have an entire history together. They have children, and I assume grandchildren will not be far behind. but all of that being said, who knows what the future holds?

Again, this is just discussion material. everyone's situation is unique.

Jb3199

I agree with you that they could make a fresh start if they were so inclined and that the division of assets and all that might ease a lot of pressure of such a venture. But divorcing with the intention of starting a new romantic relationship… I generally don’t see that as sensible. Divorce because you intend to divorce, not to establish a fresh base to build a relationship with the person you are divorcing.

Whatever happens 2-24 months after divorce… well… that just happens.

Look at this site. See the number of posts in nearly all the forums about people dealing with their ex-spouse. Here in JFO we regularly get the “he/she is cheating with his/her ex” situation. In General, we get the “ex-WW engaged to OM”. Divorce and separation is chock-full of stories on how people can’t disengage…

I have friends that are divorced. Generally – a couple of years post-divorce – the interaction between the two former spouses tends to be minimal. Usually centered around children and in most cases quite amicable. When AO divorces I hope this is what his future holds. An amicable but relatively distant relationship. That they can sit in the same row at graduations, can chat at christenings and weddings and engage future partners of ex-spouse in conversation.

I also have a friend that divorced a couple of years ago and he and his ex-wife are still constantly engaged in each other’s lives – negatively. Neither seems capable of realizing that they fired each other as spouse.

AO – I try to talk of your wife as your ex-wife.

There is a reason for this.

I want you to realize, grasp and accept the finality of the action.

For example: Once the papers are signed and filed, then maybe IF your then ex-wife has a medical emergency you might not be allowed in the ER/ICU. IF there are medically-related decisions that need to be taken you won’t have a voice. If your daughters are over 18/20 then decisions like End of Life treatment will probably fall on their shoulders should your ex wife not be capable of making her will known.

And that’s all OK… That’s inevitable in divorce. It’s fine… Only you need to know.

Don’t get me wrong: I am fine with your decision but want you to understand it and the consequences. If you were to tell me you were reconciling I would probably be making equally poignant points from that angle.

Just my opinion, but given your wife's mental state, I don't know if it would be wise to let her know about this site.

If your thread wasn't on here that would be one thing (however it is). The question is would your wife be able to come to this site and NOT look at your thread? More than likely the temptation to do so would be too great.

If she does read your thread there's a lot of stuff in there that would be EXTREMELY tough for her to read (especially in her current mental state).

Hang in there A1. In my opinion I agree your daughters should be told.

I have seen many a BH require that their WW agree

to divorce them as part of them willing to recover

their relationship and eventually remarry.

I have seen lots of BH not even consider recovery.

They went straight to divorce. Though as emotions

cooled down they started talking. Talking led to

getting coffee. Coffee to dates. Then remarriage.

As to keeping a WW away from an infidelity forum.

When the BH suspects, has not confronted the WW,

D day has not happened yet, getting the WW to

end the affair, working to have WW in NC with

the OM, is the time to keep a WW away.

We are at that time the BH's team supporting the

BH in the fight for his life against the forces

of evil.

Once the WW is where AbivalentOne's it is time

to support the their team, the BH and the WW.

There is no longer the need to protect a BH from

his WW finding out what the BH's next step is

so she can prevent discovery of the affair or

the OM's identity.

The way a BH needs the support of those that have

been down this road before the WW needs the

support form the other WW's before her.

It would definitely do her some good to speak to other WWs. She needs to understand that she isn't the only person who has ever stooped to that level, and that life can get better, even after D. But a couple things that are imperative;

1. She puts a stop sign on her thread. I know that I personally would treat her with kindness and respect, as would 90%+ of the people on this site. However, there are several people who are very invested in this story that wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to give her a piece of their mind.

2. She absolutely MUST NOT EVER READ THIS THREAD! A1, you personally have not said anything overly horrible about her. Your attitude towards your WW has always been very commendable, given the situation. But if she were to read some of the things other people have said about her, in this fragile emotional state, it could push her over the edge. If she does join this site, consider asking the mods to close this thread permanently. Better for nobody to read it, than for her to read it!

no problem. I sometimes am misunderstood too. Please keep your posting's going. You do well, Sorrowful

Thanks Western

She absolutely MUST NOT EVER READ THIS THREAD! A1, you personally have not said anything overly horrible about her. Your attitude towards your WW has always been very commendable, given the situation. But if she were to read some of the things other people have said about her, in this fragile emotional state, it could push her over the edge. If she does join this site, consider asking the mods to close this thread permanently. Better for nobody to read it, than for her to read it!

I'm pretty sure the forum rules say what gets posted stands, no deletions.

I'm also pretty sure that Mrs AO will read this thread. I'd bet a large sum of money on it.

It was a bad idea to tell her about SI. I get that she needs support but there are plenty of other forums she could have gotten that from. I see her taking another attempt at taking her life when she does read this. Her sister, hopefully, is keeping a close eye on her.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 8:19 PM, February 16th (Friday)]

Mrs. WW, if you visit this thread, I just wanted to echo what Fenderguy and I suggested upthread, you've been given a gift.

You've been given the gift of truth and honesty. You've been given the chance to actually live with integrity. To be an honest person. To look in the mirror and know you are who you see. Such as it is. Not who you want to see, or to project outward to others. Just the truth.

It sounds crazy. You lived before in an incredible web of lies to present yourself as a person of integrity, but those got washed away, so now you no longer have to serve those lies and can actually be honest, yet you likely worry about being perceived as a person without integrity. Welcome to the crooked timber of humanity. We are all card-carrying members.

The gift came wretched, scalding hot, and it is a gift almost all of us run away from, truth be told. But if you are willing to let go of your fear (and what could you really be afraid of now?) then you can gain a new satisfaction from actually being a truthful, honest person. Every day -every act. The big and the small.

I hope you pursue this path, and then lead others down it with your example, your DDs foremost. It is not too late. It is never too late.

Edit: looks like I took the last post in your thread, A1. Should have been yours. PM me if you want to put up some closing thoughts. I'll stick them in this post.

Best of luck, shipmate

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 7:23 AM, February 18th (Sunday)]