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MS, you've stated the steps you've taken to improve your mental health. That's good. Keep that up.

However, you haven't stated what (if any) steps you are taking to make yourself financially independent. Have you started looking for a job? Updated a resume? Reached out to any former bosses or coworkers? In most sectors of the economy, employers are looking for people, so it's actually a good time to be unemployed. If you are looking to leave the situation you are in, you will need to find work. You sound as though you are in a better place mentally, and perhaps ready to start on this.

Why the act?

Why the lies?

Why the exertion of control?

Why be with me at this point?

What the fuck is her endgame?

She does these things because she can. It puzzles me how much control she has over you with your knowledge. It's one thing to not recognize it, but to see it and express it so eloquently just baffles me. You definitely have the intellectual means to get out your situation, but instead you let her continue to be in the affair.

I don't know what her endgame is, and I really don't care. My question is, what's YOUR end game? What have you done to get employment and be rid of this toxic situation? What are you doing for you besides rolling over and letting her have her cake and eat it?

You are right, I understand, that it’s extremely hard to find my peace and regain my inner strength while living like this.

It's not extremely hard. It's impossible. You can only find inner peace by taking steps to be emotionally healthy. Choosing to stay in a toxic relationship is the antithesis of that. Attempting to find inner peace while being in your situation is like trying to cure your diabetes while refusing to lose weight and eat right. It's not going to magically happen. You have to take the steps necessary to make it happen or it doesn't happen at all.

I just can’t figure out the motivation here. Why?

She's getting ego kibbles from you and she's getting ego kibbles from him. I believe because of her past of discarding spouses when they no longer serve her needs that she is still working on how to replace you with him. She's feeding him the fantasy but there's a risk involved - it may not work out. He may not be serious about her. He may not be ready to take your spot. So you are her solid plan B which is why she feeds you the fantasy of R and things going back to the way they were. It's why she gets angry when you confront the reality of what she is doing and dropped any hints of being sorry as soon as you took the bait. You are being played.

Again I ask you - if she kicks you out tomorrow to move the OM in, what will you do? Where would you go? Start figuring that out.

What is most important for you right now is not her affair but protecting yourself and getting out of this abusive relationship.

She is threatening to file false Domestic Violence threats, she is ambivalent at best to thoughts of your death, I actually think you are in a very serious trouble here which you have to address right now.

In most places there are people who can help those involved in abusive relationships. Speak to a lawyer or a doctor, both should be able to point you in the direction of people who can help you.

It's one thing to not recognize it, but to see it and express it so eloquently just baffles me. You definitely have the intellectual means to get out your situation, but instead you let her continue to be in the affair.

It seems like a case of someone who's been in a toxic relationship with a person displaying strong narcissistic traits for so long, that, through intermittent reinforcement, they've developed a genuine addiction to their partner. The underlying biochemical mechanism is very much like that of any other addiction, and it's equally difficult to break away from. I bet we all know alcoholics, drug or gambling addicts who are clearly aware of their addiction, they're aware of how destructive it is, they know they should kick their habit, but they feel they can't.

OP: find yourself a good therapist who's well-versed in treating victims of narcissistic abuse and do it, like, yesterday. It may well be your only chance to escape this nightmare and your only hope to rebuild your life.

[This message edited by Sceadugenga at 7:03 PM, Monday, July 19th]

It seems like a case of someone who's been in a toxic relationship with a person displaying strong narcissistic traits for so long, that, through intermittent reinforcement, they've developed a genuine addiction to their partner. The underlying biochemical mechanism is very much like that of any other addiction, and it's equally difficult to break away from. I bet we all know alcoholics, drug or gambling addicts who are clearly aware of their addiction, they're aware of how destructive it is, they know they should kick their habit, but they feel they can't.

Well said. Thank you for this thoughtful input.

I agree, a good therapist may be the key to unlock this pattern of toxicity.

Why the act?

Why the lies?

Why the exertion of control?

Why be with me at this point?

What the fuck is her endgame?

Doesn't matter. What matters more is what are you doing to get yourself out of this situation?

It seems like a case of someone who's been in a toxic relationship with a person displaying strong narcissistic traits for so long, that, through intermittent reinforcement, they've developed a genuine addiction to their partner. The underlying biochemical mechanism is very much like that of any other addiction, and it's equally difficult to break away from. I bet we all know alcoholics, drug or gambling addicts who are clearly aware of their addiction, they're aware of how destructive it is, they know they should kick their habit, but they feel they can't.

This is 100 percent true and I can even see it. Doesn’t help with breaking the addiction, though.

It’s now gotten to a point where he publicly posts something on Facebook that she’s been talking to him with, without actually saying it was her, of course. To make things worse, he is a very influential man in my former line of business and most people I used to know are his friends on Facebook, along with thousands of other influential people.

He has the perfect facade and people think of him as a genuinely decent, funny guy, and this complicates things further. My former friends will never believe me over him.

I tried that approach with a guy I knew had committed a violent crime. I told them, straight out, and they told me that they don’t believe this about that person for a second. As I had no way to prove it and the victim didn’t want it reported, I had nothing else to do. So that blew my credibility in their eyes.

So I’m fucked either way.

And the “why” matters to me. It may be irrelevant to others but to me it’s the most pressing questions. The one I’ll never stop asking myself.

He has the perfect facade and people think of him as a genuinely decent, funny guy, and this complicates things further. My former friends will never believe me over him.

Question 1: Why do you care about the public image of your hopefully-soon-to-be-ex wife's AP?

Question 2: Why would you care about what your former friends will believe?

Question 3: What practical steps have you taken to get away from this torturous situation?

Don't waste your time and energy thinking, analysing and trying to rationalise your predicament instead of taking constructive and practical steps to tackle it. It needn't be something spectacular - a small thing will do.

Let me put on my teacher's hat and give you some homework to do: find one small feasible thing you could do to start moving forward. Make a plan, execute it and report the results to us as soon as you can. In the meantime, keep posting here so we can remind you that your situation is not as hopeless as you make it out to be.

The one I’ll never stop asking myself.

This question will become less and less important as time goes by. One evening you'll realise you haven't thought about it all day - I can't tell you how liberating it feels. And then there will be more such days.

[This message edited by Sceadugenga at 2:40 PM, Tuesday, July 20th]

I can’t believe the depths of her evil.

Yesterday. Another day of talking and believing we’ve had a tiny breakthrough. I get more bad news: one of my few remaining relatives has passed away.

I grieve, she gets a bit more calm. She agrees to end things with the other man once more. She promises she’ll do it tomorrow.

Then, right as we are about to fall asleep, my heart raw and spent and overwhelmed with grief over so many things, she says with her most gentle voice: “I have a surprise for you tomorrow. I’ll go get you something.”

My heart implodes. I know what this means: she’ll go see him. She’ll exploit my grief and use it as an excuse to go meet him again. I tell her this is what I suspect. She gets angry, says: “I can never even plan for something nice anymore!”

And once again everything revolves around her emotions, her needs. Even at a time of fresh grief, she turns the discussion towards herself.

I look at her and feel I am going to die right there and then.

I’ve never believed in evil as a concept. But this… this absolute disregard for my emotions, jumping to exploit grief as soon as she sees an opening, this absolute and complete lack of empathy. It’s not even human. She’s not human. She can’t be. No human would do this to someone they claim to love.

She presents herself as a devout Christian. But she’s evil. Pure and simple.

I am living with the Devil.

Time to figure out an exit plan.

And so I was right and so she lied again. I was surprised she admitted that she was going to go see him. To end things, as she put it.

I also noticed she’d rented a room at a hotel for the night, glanced it on her screen when she thought I wasn’t looking her way.

So yeah, just your casual messaging friend online you need to go break up with in a hotel room and come back late at night, right? Completely normal behavior!

And so I was right and so she lied again. I was surprised she admitted that she was going to go see him. To end things, as she put it.

I also noticed she’d rented a room at a hotel for the night, glanced it on her screen when she thought I wasn’t looking her way.

So yeah, just your casual messaging friend online you need to go break up with in a hotel room and come back late at night, right? Completely normal behavior!

You need to stop interacting with her as much as possible. Please read up on 180, and grey rocking.

In the near future you need to see your Dr for your own health and well being. Make sure your blood pressure and heart are ok. If you are still struggling to sleep and keep your head on straight talk to your Dr about it.

You also need to start looking for work immediately. Your spouse is evil. She will not stop, she will continue to abuse, and manipulate. Youo need to put yourself in a position where she can no longer manipulate you. That won't happen magically. So focus your energy and strength on that. I know you said you aren't in the US, but dude you need to also start protecting yourself. Find out the laws on recording interactions with her. You need to document her ravings, and threats, and claims that she will lie and say you have harmed her. That's serious stuff that could end you up in a very bad situation, protect yourself.

She’s acting very weird now.

So as she went out to get her hair done before her date, she said she was going to be with him all night and return late. While she was leaving, she was shaking her head as in disbelief, repeating to herself: “This doesn’t make any sense. What I’m doing isn’t making any sense.” And: “I don’t want to go meet him!” I’ve frankly never seen her like that before.

However, she returned quickly. But she was in an extremely strange mood: she seemed shocked, I considered whether she had sufferred a mental breakdown or taken drugs or something. She said it herself: I’m in shock. About what? No answer.

As the day went on, she claimed she had ended it on the phone. She badmouthed him a bit, seemed angry at him. Then late at night she started crying and wouldn’t stop. Ultimatelty she said she was depressed. About ending it with him, about us. Then she went silent. Didn’t speak at all for the rest of the night.

Didn’t say anything in the morning either. Took some meds and kept sleeping and sleeping.

Now I’m thinking: maybe he broke it off with her?

What she’s exhibiting are classic stages of grief: denial, anger, depression.

I’m almost entirely sure she didn’t end it. So that leaves two options: she’s either decided to end us and is going through the grief process of that - or he ended it and she’s heartbroken by it.

It’s a taboo: the grief the involved party feels over ending the affair. The loss of that relationship. It’s like an insult to us, the betrayed ones. But it’s a very human thing, anyway. Burying that grief doesn’t accomplish anything.

So while I’m trying to be empathetic even after everything, I also suspect this might all be a higher form of gaslighting. The act of a lifetime.

But I also wonder if these are my toxic emotions speaking to a degree. The truth is: I’ve never, not once, seen her like this. This confirms the affair is or was hugely important to her in an emotional level. Other than that, I’m not sure what it tells me. She still acts the same shady way she’s been acting. Instantly grabbing her phone when I leave the room, putting it away as I enter. Waking up for a minute when I’m not near her and going back to sleep as I return.

I thought I’d seen everything, and here comes another twist I wasn’t prepared for.

I'm sorry, MS. I'm having trouble processing all of these information. It feels like I'm reading a horror story. It feels like my heart is racing every time I read a new input from your side. It must have been very hard for you.

I believe your WW needs to be checked for her mental health.

Be strong, brother!

Affairs are like immature relationships. There are frequently breakups and make ups. They had a falling out but she's still talking to him so now they're "working" through it. Don't expect much to change as long as she is still talking to him.

Take yourself out of the triangulation. There is nothing left for you. Time to get a new life.

I am beginning to accept that the affair will never end and she will never take responsibility for her actions. I truly believed she was a human being - flawed, yes, but still a human being in a basic level, capable of empathy, decency, love.

It seems my view of humans has been far too optimistic.

As much as I’d like to leave right away, I can’t. I know it’s impossible to understand if you have family, friends, colleagues or any sort of support system. You are simply not capable of putting yourself in my shoes if you have no experience of such absolute loneliness and isolation.

I have, however, started to read up about my options. I am planning on seeing a doctor. I have been diagnosed with clinical depression several times over the past 20 years, and as it’s crashing back worse than ever, I will try to get some treatment for that. And I will also try to see if I could get disability allowance based on my depression, so at least gain some income to start off with.

I’m not confident this will work. Would I get a new job ASAP if I could? Sure. But battling with clinical depression AND this, well, I’m really not fit for work. Don’t know if I’ll ever be again.

I’m ill and I need to accept that.

As much as I’d like to leave right away, I can’t. I know it’s impossible to understand if you have family, friends, colleagues or any sort of support system. You are simply not capable of putting yourself in my shoes if you have no experience of such absolute loneliness and isolation.

I beg to differ. My situation is much like yours - I'll admit I feel desperately lonely at times - my family are going through a lot of crap of their own, so I can't rely on them for emotional support, the relatively few trusted friends I have, have lives of their own and I've never been keen to "overburden" people with my personal stuff. The last dozen of months or so, when I've been locked in my flat and tele-working because of the pandemic lockdown has meant that I hardly interact with my colleagues in any meaningful way.

Another thing I'll confess to is that when the black dog of depression pays a visit, I catch myself going down the memory lane, reminiscing about the good times I'd had with my exWP (admittedly, not all of our ten year relationship was crap, I genuinely remember times when I felt very happy) and thinking my current life is actually going nowhere. There are consecutive days when the only living beings I can interact with are my two cats - it really gets lonely and feels isolated. In a word, I'm living a life you fear living.

However, each time it happens, there's always a sobering thought at the back of my head. I try to picture myself with my exGF by my side, constantly on her phone whats-upping her AP, coming up with any and all silly excuses to leave home to talk to him freely, always coming home late at night because of "work stuff", shooting down all my attempts at a conversation (mind you, not a serious conversation, just a polite chat about everyday things), trying to pick up unnecessary fights just to get an opportunity to show her contempt for me and make me feel bad about myself. I could go on for hours on end.

As you can see, I can hardly call myself happy. But at the end of the day, I didn't get too choose between good or bad, happy vs unhappy. Like many folks here, I only got to choose the lesser of two evils and of the two, my current situation, however lonely, isolated and miserable it gets at times, is still the lesser one.

I'm not going to nudge you in one direction or the other, but I'd like to share one piece of advice which is difficult to refute: distance brings clarity. Think about it.

[This message edited by Sceadugenga at 9:31 AM, Saturday, July 24th]