SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The issue under consideration is her going out too much. That issue can be resolved without knowing whether Barcher is controlling or not.

As she cheated, she forfeited the right to be trusted. And she forfeited the freedom to place herself in situations conducive to cheating--such as girls' night out. Permanently.

If she were remorseful she'd know this herself. But since she apparently does not, then I'd question her remorse. And I would explain to her exactly what is expected and why.

I will say that you seem to use your depression diagnosis quite a bit. If you're in therapy I'd look more closely at that.

I see this too.

Do YOU believe that Your depression is the root cause of all the marriage problems, root of the "controlling behaviour" and cause of her A's?

The MC you saw seems to have screwed you both up. Giving her the "excuse" while placing all the blame on you.

I am of the belief and this is just MY opinion but I believe no matter what, people know right from wrong and know what they are doing. She had an affair and nothing you did or didn't do matters. It was HER choice.

You post your own take on a situation, your wife isn't here to counterbalance, and you'd like people to tell you that you're not controlling.

The first half of this sentence is right but the second half is wrong. I'd actually like people to identify my behaviors that are controlling so that I can recognize them and work to stop them.

The issue under consideration is her going out too much. That issue can be resolved without knowing whether Barcher is controlling or not.

Nah, the issue is whether or not I am controlling and how I can stop that if I can.

She doesn't go out too much. That is an example of a situation where I didn't want her to do something that she wanted to do and we argued about it, both in the moment and in MC. This also seem like a logical case, to me, that could be considered "controlling."

As she cheated, she forfeited the right to be trusted. And she forfeited the freedom to place herself in situations conducive to cheating--such as girls' night out. Permanently.

I disagree with this. I don't want a wife that's a prisoner. Also, her cheating was not something related to a girls' night out.

Also, her cheating was not something related to a girls' night out.

You might want to re-examine this. The specific act wasn't related, but the underlying motive?

Do YOU believe that Your depression is the root cause of all the marriage problems, root of the "controlling behaviour" and cause of her A's?

I think that my depression has made my life very difficult for me and for my wife. It made life difficult for other people in my life, like my kids, my first wife, and my sister.

I am actively struggling with my life right now. I have lived with depression for 25 years and it's difficult to deal with a lot of regrets and missed opportunities, but it's also difficult living such a different life. For example, let's pretend that I only had one arm for the last 25 years but then I magically got a second arm 6 months ago. It's easy to think: wow, your life must be so much better with two arms! But, the thing is, it's not... I have the re-adjust to life with two arms again (it's really uncomfortable sleeping with that second arm, for example).

But back to the topic at hand: I am wondering if my depression was misinterpreted by my wife as "controlling", when I wasn't trying to control her at all. Is it reasonable to simply assume: hey, the depression is gone, so I am not longer "controlling"?

The depression is not the cause of her A. I am certain of that. She has some FOO and insecurities and those are the root cause of her A.

The MC you saw seems to have screwed you both up. Giving her the "excuse" while placing all the blame on you.

Absolutely correct. As someone else suggested, you all don't get my wife's perspective. Well, the MC did... so I pay attention to her opinions, more than I should perhaps, because of that. The problem, though, is that the MC was a quack.

The MC was definitely of the opinion that I was controlling and that control was the motivation for my wife's affair. I disagree with that, but it's an opinion. I've been wrong before; I'll be wrong again.

You might want to re-examine this. The specific act wasn't related, but the underlying motive?

Please explain your rationale.

None of her friends knew about her affair. None of her friends even had the slightest clue. None of her friends even knew that she had an ex boyfriend in Virginia who is an orthopedic surgeon.

One friend also was involved in infidelity, but this friend has been a friend for maybe 3 or 4 years... her affair went on for 8 years. That friend is clearly not to blame.

My wife's affair was completely secret to everyone but her and her AP.

What was the reasoning for GNO? To escape? To get away from the stress rather than solve the problem? Was she using it to avoid conflict?

What consequences do you recommend? How do I enforce the boundary other than by getting angry at her? I have tried to use logic and persuasion.

This is the part you are really not going to like.

Let me use these examples to clarify something.

1. Your wife has a bad habit of leaving cabinet doors open. Not only does it look messy, but you hit your head/knee on them often. This really bothers you. You talk to her about it. She works hard to change the habit, but sometimes still does it.

2. Your wife likes to play pranks on you, like jumping out and scaring you or leaving the wrapper on your cheese in your sandwich. This really pisses you off. You ask her to stop because it upsets you. She cuts way back, but sometimes still does it.

Do you see how the first is subconscious and the second is a conscious choice?

You expressing your needs to your wife (needing her support by not going out two nights in a row while you work to deal with your anxiety) and her refusing to help is her making a conscious choice to ignore your feelings.

Request: that she not go out two nights in a row until you can get your anxiety under control.

Consequence: couples therapy to figure out how to compromise

Consequence if therapy is refused: to not be in a relationship with someone who ignores your feelings purposefully and then refuses to figure out how to handle it better. ie, divorce.

This may seem extreme to you, but my point in showing the subconscious vs conscious actions is to show that she is actively choosing to be uncaring towards you and then actively choosing to not learn better. That's not someone I would ever want to be in a relationship with.

ETA: You being controlling would be remaining in the relationship and continuously trying to control/dictate her actions to please you. If she doesn't want to, you can't make her.

[This message edited by StrongHeart at 9:05 AM, August 17th (Thursday)]

My stbxh was extremely controlling but not in regards to me going out with friends. He was secretive and controlling with finances. Hid the mail from me. Tried to tell me how things should be done all the time and got upset when I didn't do things his way. Also would check up on me at work to an extreme. I had to tell him to stop and quit answering his texts and phone calls while i was at work. Looking back, i think he was worried about getting caught in affair. He carried on for 3 years without getting caught.

What was the reasoning for GNO? To escape? To get away from the stress rather than solve the problem? Was she using it to avoid conflict?

Have fun, be with her friends. I don't think she was avoiding anything with this... other than, perhaps, she was sick of talking to someone under the age of three all of the time.

This is the part you are really not going to like.

Nope. It was informative. Thank you.

I agree with what PlanC is saying. My wife rarely has GNO anymore and I realize it is necessary for her to OCASSIONALLY. Anything else is not ok with me. Does this make me controlling? I don't think so. I don't tell her she can't, she absolutely can. Will it put a strain in our M, absolutely. That behavior is not ok with me. I wouldn't do that to her, she shouldn't want to do that to me.

To hang out with her friends, go shopping or to lunch, dinner, that's fine, no problem. Whenever she wants, IDC. But GNO, without me?, not on a regular basis. That's my boundary.

I guess that's a reason why people have accused me of being codependent before.

I disagree, but that's okay. We can disagree politely, yes?

We can. I am a codependent, and if your first concern when she's out without you after the nature of her affair is her safety, you are a little codependent. She needs to be free to be her own train-wreck.

I am a codependent, and if your first concern when she's out without you after the nature of her affair is her safety, you are a little codependent.

This is all pre-D-day concerns, actually. As are the complaints about being "controlling."

I have not been more anxious when she has gone out since D-day... in fact, maybe a little less because I have worked to manage some of my issues.

ETA: I think my problem is anxiety, not co-dependency.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 3:06 PM, August 17th (Thursday)]

I may have posted this story already but...Every Thursday night wh and I go out for drinks and dinner to the same place. We know everyone. Thursday is the new Friday around here!!! Anyway, a few weeks ago I was away one night! Thursday. Not with friends I was alone. Wh said he was going out. It was ok with me because I thought he was going to our regular place. I was comfortable with that. He went somewhere else knowing I wasn't comfortable with that. A crazy crowd! He texted often while he was there. I said I'm not happy that you did that. His answer was I'm not living like that. Controlling yes on his part. He met his ap at a similar place.

PlanC,

Wayward wives shouldn't be going out without their husbands ever.

This is a concerning statement for me. Would the opposite hold true? My WH is out golfing with his buddy and my cousin right now. Would you think that's a problem?

I think I'd go crazy if I had to spend all my waking hours policing and supervising WH. And so I'd never be able to go solo anywhere either, work out with girlfriends, because he might be somewhere without me?

That's all sorts of fucked up AND controlling.

Now, checking in IS different. And considering the lack of remorse Mrs. Barcher demonstrates (except when he threatens divorce) checking in is absolutely fair. But going out once every other week is nbd and not demonstrating of controlling.

Mr. themess was controlling in some areas, particularly around the home. He didn't control my social life, and I left the country solo several times, and worked out, and started little businesses... but he dictated how the house was to look, what he expected when he got home, and if it didn't look like perfection I was demeaned and ridiculed. This is different now.

Controlling covers such a broad spectrum of behaviours. And when you're accused of being controlling by a wayward who is looking for reasons to vilify, be their reasons legitimate or fabricated, you have to remember the source.

Is being decisive controlling?

Is being considerate by helping others when they haven't asked for help controlling? ('they' could be your children, friends, spouse, etc..)

Is buying gifts such as an item of clothing for your spouse controlling?

In some ways all of the above could be considered so, but they could also be considered strengths, or acts of character and caring!

I think a waywards accusation of controlling needs a real degree of scrutiny, before being accepted as fact.

Tess,

Yes, I also believe that wayward husbands permanently lose the right to go out without their spouses or place themselves in situations conducive to cheating.

As to golf? I don't think many men get one-in-holes or birdies at the golf course unless their pet name is Tiger.