SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yeah, there are daily challenges, but it sounds like the good greatly outweighs the bad for you, yeah?

Losfer, that's definitely the case. I've actually had a better marriage (and strangely, a better life) these past 6+ years than the previous 17 pre-infidelity. Obviously the affair leaves a stain on the marriage, and I doubt full trust will ever be restored. Forgiving is not the same as forgetting. But we have a lot of fun and are blessed with family and friends, so things could be a hell of a lot worse.

On a different note, I'm happy to hear that you feel relieved these days. You were dealing with an excruciating set of facts and a WW whose demons could not be loved away. But you continued to father your son and conduct yourself as a man of honor. It's not always easy to tell what's going on just by reading comments in a message board, but you come off as happier and more hopeful and upbeat these days, and it is great to see.

To you, Mr. Kite, Incarnate, and all of our creative and artistic BM brothers - kudos, I'm impressed. Keep sharing with us even though I don't know what the hell you are talking about half the time. I'd give anything to have those talents.

Incarnate, I too give you kudos for talking about your mental health challenges. I hope you find the right combo of medication and therapy if you haven't already. Good to know that things have been better for you lately and that you've rid yourself of the main source of stress. Congrats on the book signing and knowing that you touched a fan so deeply! She must have been totally immersed in the world you created to react the way she did, and that has to be a hell of a good feeling.

1) I used to listen to Western classical music almost exclusively. A few years ago my hearing got too bad to enjoy it, unless I sit very close to the orchestra, which we can't afford.

I occasionally listen to an LP or CD on my Lexus-level hifi. I enjoy it, but its doesn't move me the way it used to.

2) A local guy promotes a bluegrass show 8 or 9 times a year. We attend every one of his shows that we can. Not all the bands are to our liking, but so many are so good, we just go. (A friend listens to each band on youtube and only goes to a show if he likes what he sees and hears. W & I don't care - magic can happen at any live show, after all.)

The venue is small, and we get there early so we can sit close to the stage. I have to turn my hearing aids down.

BTW, we usually attend with some friends who met at the opera (Lyric, not Grand Ol'), to which both couples subscribe.

3) Anybody see the PBS show on country music last night? Lots of good music. The Carter family is plain mind-bogglingly good.

A.P Carter pisses me off - collecting songs from friends and acquaintances and copyrighting them in his own name. The whole 'industry' seems to be based on screwing the real producers of the music.

4) We're also into Indian classical music. we've been lucky to live close to large Indian immigrant populations, and they import talent from India.

If you like music and have a chance to attend a concert of Indian classical music, I recommend giving it a try. You may get hooked.

5) Incarnate, I'm glad you're getting work done. It's normal to be unable to work after d-day; it's a sign of healing - and it furthers healing - when a BS can start to get things done again.

6) My biking hit an obstacle on 8/31 - I got the Shingrix vaccine, and I got the flu-like side effects, which kept me off my bike for a week. I had planned to do a 50 mile ride yesterday, but there was no way I could ride that far in one go.

I did, however, go over 1000 miles for 2019 this weekend. When I was working 30 years ago, I was riding 2000 miles/year, but I could ride 5 days out of 7 then, and I was much faster. Now I'm slow and ride every other day at most.

The 50 mile ride would be nice to do, if the weather is nice, and I may do one before the end of 2019. The 1,000 mile mark was something I really wanted to reach, so I'm pretty happy.

7) 52nd Anniversary tomorrow. I feel good about it, but I'm not much into celebrating. I really like waking up beside my W. I like being with her. We were at a wedding a week ago, and I think ours was much better, but the day isn't a big deal.

We usually go out to dinner to celebrate, and I'm on a largely successful diet. (I'm at essentially the lowest I've weighed this century - down 45 lbs from January 1, 2001.) I'd like to get away from celebrating with food.

8) Thanks DS & MH for creating SI an allowing me to ramble and to meet all these great folks.

[This message edited by sisoon at 6:08 PM, September 16th (Monday)]

Hey guys.

Didn't get nearly as much done today as I would have liked... the proofread of chapter 7 took a lot longer than I wanted it to, but I got it done. If I'm gonna hit my self-imposed deadline, I'm gonna need to step my game up, but getting 5 kids off to school, handling therapists for my two autistic girls, having guests over, and so on really takes a bite out of my time.

My eldest daughter was upset this evening about a game she was playing (being a teenage girl playing online video games opens one up to a TON of sexual harassment... I've talked to her about muting them or picking a different game, but she's about as strong willed as I am, so... yeah, that didn't work). Well,she tried to talk to her mom, and her mom started in on "Have you taken your pills, you know you're crazy when you don't take your pills so you only have yourself to blame blah blah blah" and my 16 year old daughter lost. Her. Shit.

Kicking walls, throwing things, yelling and screaming at her mom, and at the end she busted out with "And what the fuck would YOU know about acting right, you whore!" and stormed away.

I mean.

I mean...

I went and talked to her for a bit and she calmed right down. We talked about douchebags in the online gaming crowds, then we went to my room and I made a drink and watched her slaughter demons in DOOM. She felt better when she went back to her room an hour or so ago.

Good bonding time, I guess, lol

My book is coming along nicely, other than being a bit behind schedule. I really do think this is the best one I've written so far, and it's only the 5th in the main saga that is slated for 20 books. No news on the audiobook for it yet, or the one before it, but to be fair, I haven't reached out to my publisher for a minute. Shit's been hectic.

I'm gonna finish my drink and head to bed. Hope y'all's nights were mellow.

One of the downsides of getting older is seeing your musical heroes pass on. Last week we lost Eddie Money and Ric Okasek from the Cars.

What hit me the hardest earlier this year is the passing of Mark Hollis from the band Talk Talk. If you get a chance go on You Tube and listen to "It's My Life" and "Life's What You Make It." He's the singer and songwriter.

We also lost Dr. John. It all sucks but they will live on through their music.

On another note: My WW's IC has encouraged us to meet with her for MC. I said absolutely not. Once the two of them can figure out why my WW is such a robotic, cold, closed-up person and take the proper steps to get that remedied, then I will consider it.

WD - If you are more classical metal, then where is Rat on that list.

Just kidding. BTW - Try out Volbeat. Finish/Dutch metal band redoing Johnny Cash and kind of rock-a-billy but heavy. They opened for Metalica this last tour, just for reference.

Kind of a funny question: When a girl a lot younger (I am almost 40, talking early 20s) than you is hitting (Aggressive flirting) on you, how do you guys take it?

I kind of feel like a dirty old man. I also keep getting told I am in better shape than most straight guys in their 20s(Post affair hard lifting still in effect).

Is it just because I have daughters that I can't just be cool with the flattery? I feel like I have to excessively explain I am married and talk about my wife, which sometimes back fires.

I feel like Kevin Spacey in American Beauty, but the girls aren't that young. Makes me look at my friend who married a girl 20 years younger than him differently.

Just an interesting topic I was discussing with some friends (Girls and guys) at the bar last weekend.

tbh, if a 20 year old hit on me, I would be hyper flattered. I'd probably go for it, but I'm single, so it's different. When I was married, I would tell them "I really appreciate it, I am very flattered, but I am happily married." (hahaha in retrospect)

The song by Andy Grammer comes to mind; "Honey I'm good".

It's been a long night here, and a long night there

And these long, long legs are damn near everywhere

Hold up now, you look good, I will not lie

But if you ask where I'm staying tonight I gotta be like

Oh baby, no baby, you got me all wrong baby

My baby's already got all my love

So nah nah, honey I'm good

I could have another but I probably should not

I've got somebody at home, and if I stay I might not leave alone

No, honey I'm good, I could have another but I probably should not

I've gotta bid you adieu and to another I will stay true

[This message edited by Incarnate at 3:11 PM, September 18th (Wednesday)]

Try out Volbeat.

Oh, yeah I know them (found them 7 years ago). Good stuff.

You might find interesting the bands Clutch and The Sword.

[This message edited by WornDown at 8:49 AM, September 19th (Thursday)]

for those with kids who seperated/divorced - did you let the cheating wife stay in the family home and you move out?

i see mine four times a week, so still very involved.

i couldn't be bothered chucking her out, she can keep the place, at least my kids will have a family home for life. selling would have meant downsizing for everyone. i will keep my stake in the place but will slowly come off hte mortgage. i will be renting locally.

for those with kids and who divorced, how did it work for you?

betrayed men get a horrific deal.

[This message edited by puffstuff at 5:54 AM, September 19th (Thursday)]

Our place was rented, and I had "moved" 5 hours away for work; the plan was for the ex and the kids to follow me in a year or two (when the oldest finished HS).

When I pulled the trigger (6 months in), I didn't give a shit about all the stuff (other than my tools, books, guns and my clothes). I let her keep everything else - the furniture, the silver/china, TVs, washer/drier/appliances, etc. We had a lot - it was a 3000 sq ft house.

I was living in a basement room ~400 sq ft, so I really didn't need all of it. I just wanted out of that marriage.

When I did move into a "real" place, I ended up having to buy everything new. The day I signed the lease, I realized I only had one fork/knife/spoon and one (each) plastic plate/bowl. Off to Bed, Bath and Beyond I went.

That year it probably cost me close to $6k to out fit my home (TV, stereo, kitchen stuff, couch, bed/desk for my son) and I've spent another $3-4k in the three years since (new bedroom furniture, other things).

Getting all new stuff and not having to deal/haggle with the ex during the divorce? Priceless.

A tale from the R side -

Yesterday I was pushing myself really hard against a headwind (on my bike). I looked at my computer and thought I was going to get home a lot later than I told my W, so I called. Then I realized I had made a mistake - it was actually 1:45, not 2:45. (I have ride duration displayed right next to time of day on my bike computer.)

I was really beat, and that's why I made the mistake. One thought (of many) that popped into my mind was 'If she's cheating, I may catch her.'

Then I realized that there's no way she'll try to sneak someone into our apartment. When I go out, I genuinely do not know how long I'll be gone. I'm very unlikely to ride less than 10 miles, but I could go 35. That's a big range of free time.

Sometimes, though, I really think about the fact that the uncertainty could impact an A, if she were conducting one. It would be really risky for her sneak someone into our apartment not knowing how long I'll be away,

The thoughts are annoying, but I have to admit they're there. Yet another unintended consequence.

I have no realistic concern about her cheating now - but I don't like how the thoughts pop up. I doubt they'd be there if I had chosen D.

(signed) sisoon, who is sometimes overly pollyanna-ish about R

I've actually had a better marriage (and strangely, a better life) these past 6+ years than the previous 17 pre-infidelity. Obviously the affair leaves a stain on the marriage, and I doubt full trust will ever be restored. Forgiving is not the same as forgetting. But we have a lot of fun and are blessed with family and friends, so things could be a hell of a lot worse.

That sounds like a realistic and normal reconciliation to me, Sal. I'm really glad to hear things have gotten better for you, and I hope they continue to improve over the years.

On a different note, I'm happy to hear that you feel relieved these days. You were dealing with an excruciating set of facts and a WW whose demons could not be loved away. But you continued to father your son and conduct yourself as a man of honor. It's not always easy to tell what's going on just by reading comments in a message board, but you come off as happier and more hopeful and upbeat these days, and it is great to see.

Thanks, Sal, I really appreciate that! Things have improved dramatically, and my son and I are having a lot more peace. It seems like my STBX is healing and having a lot more peace as well. Leaving turned out to be the right thing to do in my case. My ultimate goal ended up just having some peace, and I'm getting there.

Sisoon - Your appreciation for music floors me. You truly know your shit, and you have impeccable class. That's so cool you go out to see those local bluegrass shows, and it sounds like you have a long history of seeing live symphony music. The Indian classical music you mentioned fascinates me as well. You are in so much better biking shape than I am, and I am 46. I used to be such an avid biker. You are an inspiration. I hope your anniversary was very nice for both you and your wife, kind sir.

Thanks DS & MH for creating SI an allowing me to ramble and to meet all these great folks.

I echo this sentiment, sisoon. This site saved and changed my life.

(signed) sisoon, who is sometimes overly pollyanna-ish about R

I never got that vibe from you, man. You have been realistic through this whole situation. I'm truly happy for where you and your W are at.

Kicking walls, throwing things, yelling and screaming at her mom, and at the end she busted out with "And what the fuck would YOU know about acting right, you whore!" and stormed away.

Ouch, Incarnate. I totally understand where your daughter is coming from. At the same time, your daughter has to keep her own behavior in check. I'm saying this in the most non-judgmental way possible, as my son went through some similar experiences as well. IC and EMDR has helped him a lot.

One of the downsides of getting older is seeing your musical heroes pass on. Last week we lost Eddie Money and Ric Okasek from the Cars.

Yeah, those were both tough losses, Mr. Kite! I was a big fan of Ric as both a musician and a producer. That was a rough one. I wasn't as much into Eddie Money, but he seemed like such an incredibly nice guy as a person. Big losses for sure. Mark Hollis and Dr. John were both amazing as well.

My WW's IC has encouraged us to meet with her for MC. I said absolutely not. Once the two of them can figure out why my WW is such a robotic, cold, closed-up person and take the proper steps to get that remedied, then I will consider it.

My gut, and also based upon my own MC experience, says that you made the correct call about this one, Mr. K!

Try out Volbeat. Finish/Dutch metal band redoing Johnny Cash and kind of rock-a-billy but heavy.

Good band. I got injured in their mosh pit last month. My son was there to see Slipknot, I was there to see Gojira. Some fucking drunken college frat bro that didn't know how to mosh took me down in the Volbeat pit and I sprained my wrist. Other than that, a good show. Those guys are great musicians.

When a girl a lot younger (I am almost 40, talking early 20s) than you is hitting (Aggressive flirting) on you, how do you guys take it?

Sorry, never happened to me! Keep us posted, DoinBettr!

for those with kids who seperated/divorced - did you let the cheating wife stay in the family home and you move out?

I ended up moving out. It's working well for me. I think ultimately it is best for S/D parents to share custody in most situations. In my case I have my son full time, and I'm working very hard for him to have a relationship with his mom once again.

betrayed men get a horrific deal.

Yes, my friend. In my case, I've stayed focused on my kid more than anything else. It's helped lighten a lot of paths for me. It seems like you have the right focus as well. Don't lose yourself in the process, either. Do some things for you when you have time.

Missed a couple of posts from the previous page. Good to see this shit moving along again!

There's a digital audio workstation called Reaper that you can download. It costs $60.00 and works quite well. The learning curve is a bit steep but there is plenty of help on their website and on YouTube.

Thanks, Mr. K.! The FocusRite unit I bought for my son came with some free multi-tracking software. I'm going to start with that. If I need to expand, I will definitely keep Reaper in mind. I appreciate the reference!

Life-long Rams fan here, so I know the frustration when your team is on the losing end season after season. The latest for us was the Jeff Fisher years

Yeah, that's been awhile! Broncos are starting out horrible. We'll see how our teams do this weekend. Looks like your Rams are favored against the Browns. Good luck!

Sounds like Western to me...I'll pass.

Not quite as bad as it sounds, Tred! There is some good sonic stuff going on there, but I hear ya.

The thoughts are annoying, but I have to admit they're there. Yet another unintended consequence.

I have no realistic concern about her cheating now - but I don't like how the thoughts pop up.

It's not daily with me but since WW works and lives in another town and only comes home on the weekend, and has been doing this for over 6 years, it's at times a struggle to overcome that mindset.

All of it sucks and nothing good has come out of it since she has done little work to help me heal.

Btw Flash the Beagle and I just came back from our daily hour and a half walk. There's a trail that goes from Pittsburgh to the Atlantic Ocean. There's a railroad that runs next to the trail.

Lots of bike riders whiz by along with the occasional deer, rabbit, coyote and snake sighting. Being outdoors is therapeutic whether walking, running, or biking. All the best to you.

Thanks, Mr. K.! The FocusRite unit I bought for my son came with some free multi-tracking software. I'm going to start with that. If I need to expand, I will definitely keep Reaper in mind. I appreciate the reference!

If you ever need any guidance just ask. I've been doing the multi-track thing since the mid-70's(a TEAC 3340S reel-to-reel recorder).

Good luck with the Packers on Sunday. The Rams play the Browns in Cleveland Sunday night.

Btw in case you don't know, there's a hilarious guy on You Tube that's a Broncos fan. His name is Brandon Perna. Lots of NSFW language though. The site is called ThatsGoodSports.

[This message edited by Mr. Kite at 8:06 PM, September 19th (Thursday)]

If you ever need any guidance just ask. I've been doing the multi-track thing since the mid-70's(a TEAC 3340S reel-to-reel recorder).

Will do, man! Would it surprise you if I told you I own and have used a TEAC reel-to-reel? Don't remember the model number. It is up at STBX's house. It's a four track. The thing weighs a ton. You have quite the extensive background!

Good luck with the Packers on Sunday. The Rams play the Browns in Cleveland Sunday night.

Thanks! I picked Broncos and Browns in my football pool. More than likely two points lost there. Very likely the Broncos will lose, and your Rams will win!

Btw in case you don't know, there's a hilarious guy on You Tube that's a Broncos fan. His name is Brandon Perna. Lots of NSFW language though. The site is called ThatsGoodSports.

Never heard of him, and I appreciate the reference. I may need to check his channel out to get some good humor this season. Bookmarking for potential levity if (and likely when) the Broncos lose on Sunday.

Will do, man! Would it surprise you if I told you I own and have used a TEAC reel-to-reel? Don't remember the model number. It is up at STBX's house. It's a four track. The thing weighs a ton.

It's probably worth quite a bit because it's a relic.

You have quite the extensive background!

Nah. By the time you're my age you should have a few experiences under your belt. Speaking of relics...

I may need to check his channel out to get some good humor this season.

Absolutely! The man is a scream to the point of absurdity.

It's probably worth quite a bit because it's a relic.

I had no idea. I did a little online browsing, and they are going for a decent amount! I've had it covered and stored in a basement for many years, so it should still be in good shape. I need to fire it up and digitize some of the recordings I have on there.

My first "multi-tracking" experience was when I was 11 or 12 years old. I took my parents' boom box, and recorded a 12 bar blues rhythm track on it. Took the tape out, and played it back through my parents' stereo, and recorded the backing track and the lead track into the mic of the boom box. The funny thing was, the tape speeds of the stereo equipment were different, and I had to tune up to F to play in key with the backing track. It just cracks me up that you can get multi track recorder apps that you can install on your phone these days. Times have changed.

I had no idea. I did a little online browsing, and they are going for a decent amount! I've had it covered and stored in a basement for many years, so it should still be in good shape.

Sometimes there are forgotten treasures hidden in basements, closets, and attics. Many years ago a man in my church gave me "an old guitar that's been sitting in the closet for years." It turned out to be a 1962 Gibson 12-string acoustic. Thank you sir, I'll take it.

It just cracks me up that you can get multi track recorder apps that you can install on your phone these days. Times have changed.

What used to cost tens of thousands of dollars, you can now get for cheap. My digital audio workstation - FL Studio - cost me $200.00 and I can record hundreds of tracks on it without any hiss.

Btw speaking of phones, am I the only one left that doesn't have a cell phone? I also still have a VCR hooked up to a TV in the basement and a cassette player in the car. Get off my lawn!

Sometimes there are forgotten treasures hidden in basements, closets, and attics. Many years ago a man in my church gave me "an old guitar that's been sitting in the closet for years." It turned out to be a 1962 Gibson 12-string acoustic. Thank you sir, I'll take it.

I don't even know how to respond to that. What a treasure, and what a gift!

Btw speaking of phones, am I the only one left that doesn't have a cell phone? I also still have a VCR hooked up to a TV in the basement and a cassette player in the car. Get off my lawn!

I can't match you there, but I will say that I am a software engineer for one of the largest wireless providers, and I didn't get a smart phone until like five years after most of my friends did.

I have a VCR attached to my laptop that is sitting next to me right now, so I can convert tapes.

One of my best memories was from the 90's. My brother bought a '78 Corvette Stingray t-top with a working 8-track system in it. Our other buddy (and my former drummer) had a working 8-track recorder, and they recorded Nine Inch Nails onto 8-track. So I'm sitting there in the passenger seat, and my brother is blasting NIN on 8-track in a '78 Stingray t-top going 120MPH up the interstate...

Mr. Kite (and anyone else, really) - There is a fun thread down in the Fun and Games section called "Song Title Game". Basically you just have to match a word from the previous title. For example, if the last song was "Piano Man - Billy Joel", the next title could be "Rocket Man - Elton John". Check it out if you want.

Btw speaking of phones, am I the only one left that doesn't have a cell phone? I also still have a VCR hooked up to a TV in the basement and a cassette player in the car. Get off my lawn!

Yes. Yes you are. I'd say "fite me, old man" but I don't want you to drop your cane as you get out of your wheelchair. :P

Also, old men are made out of iron bars and steel cables, and they dngaf. I'm rapidly hitting that stage of my life.

On other news, I bounced from my house last night on a whim. The ex was being flirty (as usual) with her partners, and I just couldn't take it. I knew there would be a fight or I would sit in my room panic attacking...

So I went barhopping by myself. Covered two cities, but not many bars, since I don't know their locations. I was looking around at the single chicks, and it was like, jfc, these women are all barely into their 20s. It feels like they could have legitimately gone to high school with my oldest daughter, and that screwed me up a little bit. I just drank my drink and kept to myself most of the time. Got a free drink at one of the bars, which was nice... the bartender said I looked like I needed it, so I'm not entirely sure how to take that, but I'm gonna go with it.

I did meet one lady though, and we hit it off alright. She's divorced, has one kid, is a few years older than me. I almost had a date out of it (I think). About the time we both mentioned that the little girls were being noisy and being unable to handle their booze (as they are wont to do), I said, "So, it's noisy as shit here. You wanna go grab some mozz sticks at Applebees or something?"

Her response; "That sounds -awesome-, but I have to work from tomorrow morning until tomorrow night late. Now, if you had said Buffalo Wings, I'd probably have been down, but if I go to Applebees, I'll have a few more drinks and I need to not be tired tomorrow. I can't be bringing anyone home. Not tonight."

Well, that was a huge boost to my ego. That was nice. Got her contact info and we're gonna do a raincheck. Or maybe not, I don't know, maybe she was letting me down gently. I'm not used to being let down gently, most of the time it was just a solid "No."

But yeah, it was nice to get out of the house for a bit and not have the whole situation just looming overhead the whole time. I was able to get my flirt on, and apparently I haven't lost all of the natural charisma I had when I was younger.

Also, I can still handle my booze, which is nice. Too many times, I'd lose a ton of weight and tolerance all at once. Kept my head on my shoulders and my wits about me.

[This message edited by Incarnate at 1:03 PM, September 20th (Friday)]